EPTPolice Brutality At My School - Page 6
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ihatett
United States2289 Posts
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Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
Like I said, it's in everybody's interest for the students to continue their education. Let them have a protest... They don't have the RIGHT to DEMAND change as in taking the thing to court, but surely they have the right to complain. | ||
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Sp2Hydradized
United States60 Posts
On April 30 2005 20:59 ihatett wrote: If the college reserved the right to raise tuition at any time, the students have no right to protest. Tell me, where do they derive the right from? Hey, we aren't talking legality here. I can't cite for you a certain section or legal code that says "The University of California system cannot increase prices out of the reach of the common American" but that doesn't make it right. And if you don't wan't to discuss possibilities outside of the existing legal code, we don't have anything more to say. I just hope you're parents or yourself are already bringing in major cash and you don't have to worry about not getting the education you earned. Good luck man, seriously. I know how hard it can be otherwise. Peace. | ||
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
So complain about the university's behaviour as much as you like: chances are you're in the right. But don't start crying out "police brutality" as if they should have handled the situation differently. The university told the police to move the students, an action which the university was entitled to take, thus the police had to follow through. And like I said, these students -- the majority of them -- were not going to move unless they were made to suffer in some way. Judging from the other posts in this topic, the students didn't suffer very much at all. Tear gas or pepper spray would probably have been much more agonizing than a brief "sleeper pinch". It was probably less harmful than a fine as well. I'm not saying it's totally harmless, but if you have to move someone then it sounds like a relatively harmless way to do it. Frankly, I think I'd rather have that done to me than having to endure tear gas, pepper spray, a large fine, or being physically hit. | ||
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ihatett
United States2289 Posts
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. The first amemndment was not infringed. | ||
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Sp2Hydradized
United States60 Posts
On April 30 2005 21:20 Bill307 wrote: It's easy to see that the university is very much at fault. The police, on the other hand, were simply doing their jobs, which were given to them by the university. The police can't choose to negotiate with the students: the university has to do it. And if the university chooses not to, then it would be nonsensical for the police to do it in their place. Fines are a pretty dumb idea too. If the university tells the police to remove the students from the area, then the police can't just slap a fine on them and leave them there. And I don't think that the threat of a fine was going to be sufficient to move the majority of the protesters. So complain about the university's behaviour as much as you like: chances are you're in the right. But don't start crying out "police brutality" as if they should have handled the situation differently. The university told the police to move the students, an action which the university was entitled to take, thus the police had to follow through. And like I said, these students -- the majority of them -- were not going to move unless they were made to suffer in some way. Judging from the other posts in this topic, the students didn't suffer very much at all. Tear gas or pepper spray would probably have been much more agonizing than a brief "sleeper pinch". It was probably less harmful than a fine as well. I'm not saying it's totally harmless, but if you have to move someone then it sounds like a relatively harmless way to do it. Frankly, I think I'd rather have that done to me than having to endure tear gas, pepper spray, a large fine, or being physically hit. Right, Bill. I think it stands to be repeated that though there are definite cases of police brutality, the phrase needs to be reserved for more blatant instances. It seemed from the video, that most of the police officers were "non aggressive" in that they were respectful in carrying out their job, which was to move the students as mandated to do by the University. I still, however, believe that because this mandate from the University was unjust the violence itself was unnecessary and uncalled for and is therefore in some form a type of "brutality". | ||
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Sp2Hydradized
United States60 Posts
In the most technical sense, maybe their freedom of speech was not infringed. But the University found a way to legally have the tax payers broken up and silenced and therefore, albeit legally, " [abridged] [their] freedom of speech." I think you'd have to be incredibly dense to believe that the University was completely innocent in setting up this curfew. Constitutional or not, it's reasonable to say that the adminstrators limited their ability to speak on campus, which is basically to say they did not let the people speak at all--which understood in those terms is exactly what an infringement of the First Amendment is. | ||
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ihatett
United States2289 Posts
That wasn't broken. By the way, this discussion is getting nowhere. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
True story: (San Diego, California: Early 2000) Me and a friend were stopped by a biker cop (we were on skateboards coming home from school). He informed us that we had J-walked, because crossing the intersection when the hand starts flashing (analogous to the yellow traffic light) means you can no longer cross, but that if you were in the middle of the street, you need to hurry up. He made us sit on the curb as he wrote up tickets. OK, I'm a well-behaved whiteboy, so I'm not used to being victimized by profiling. But this cop did not like "punk skaters", as was evident by the fact that my friend and I were 2 out of 10 people that had crossed together (we were singled out of the crowd by the officer) and by his remarks about our appearances. I asked him why he let the others keep walking, and he said he wasn't concerned about this. I said, "That's not fair." He said, "Life's not fucking fair. What do you expect when you go walking around with green hair, like you're looking for trouble." WTF!!!! I can't believe he just said this to me. A glimpse of real world prejudice flashed in front of my juvinile eyes. I pointed out that kids were J-walking right in front of him, and he said "Well, I\'m busy with you. Why don't you go stop him." I knew he was being sarcastic, but I got up and started walking across the street towards the group, yelling at them to stop. I think the officer knew I was going to run about a second before I did. I had about a 20 foot gain on him, so I initiated a full run for the motel complex across the street. He hoped on his motorcyle and chased me, as hid around the corner of a Denny's dumpster. As the bike went by, he saw me and jerked to the right, which made him fall off his bike (going about 10 mph) which really pissed him off. I then hopped a couple fences, but couldn't find cover in the wide open parking lot of a motel. It had only been about 1 minute since I started to run, but I saw at least 5 cop cars roll up into the parking lot. OK, I was caught. It was embarressing; the first time they actually caught me out of several successful attempts at running. They pointed guns at me (!!) and told me to put my skateboard down, because it was a weapon. I tossed it away immediately and put my hands up. As 5 officers advanced from the front, the original biker cop had snuck up behind me. He punched me hard in the back of the head, sending me to the floor. I was cuffed immediately and then dragged across the gravel to a patch of dry grass, where they grated my face for a good 20 seconds, while delivering some well-placed body blows (the kind that dont leave obvious marks, these are professional you know). Looking up, I could see that 2 officers were pinning me (despite zero fight-back) while the biker cop took out his anger on me, undoubtedly pissed about falling off his motorcycle. The spectacle drew quite an audience from the run-down motel clients, who watched as I was handily beaten. I couldn't believe nobody yelled at them to stop, or tried to help me. I was 16 years old. But they were police officers. I was brought down to the station, where they made me clean the blood off my face before taking the booking picture for my file. I have a 3/4 inch permanent scratch/scar below and to the right of my nose. Yeah, I know I did something wrong, but I didnt deserve that. It was a horrible thing to experience but I'm glad it happened, because otherwise I might've grown up thinking that police brutality stories are bullshit. In fact, kids that grew up thinking that might say I deserved what I got. Such people are stupid, unable to empathize, and have no grasp on the distinction between police officers and the judicial branch of the government. Sorry for the tangent, but I really wanted to relate that story for those who don't live in California. | ||
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Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
You missed the point of me pointing at the first amendment... because you stated "the students have no right to protest." I was saying that technically, they do. In which manner is up to them and the validity of the protest may vary, but they have every right to protest. So enough of this. | ||
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ihatett
United States2289 Posts
On April 30 2005 21:45 ihatett wrote: The first ammendment doesn't say "an organization can't keep people from protesting on their property", it says "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of... the right of the people peaceably to assemble". That wasn't broken. By the way, this discussion is getting nowhere. edit: my last post in this thread, you get the last word | ||
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Sp2Hydradized
United States60 Posts
i think it's good that you shared that. i live in california too and even though i've never been beat up by the cops i have definitely run into them when they were on extreme power trips and have seen them be unncessarily forceful with friends of mine. clearly, this isn't to degrade all police officers because many do their jobs with extreme bravery and valor. but this needs to be said to dispel the too common belief that things like this never actually happen here, or anywhere else. | ||
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Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
On April 30 2005 22:04 ihatett wrote: That wasn't broken. By the way, this discussion is getting nowhere. Dude, I will now proceed with personal insults: you're an idiot. Where did I say it was broken? I didn't. I just said they have the right to protest if they want to but how they do it (if it is peacefuly) and what about is up the them. So if they follow the rules, they can exercise the first amendment by assembling and protesting. Stating this obvious fact does not mean I agree or disagree with the actions of the police. It just means that STUDENTS DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTEST. The only thing in question would be HOW they do it, but if they follow the rules, they do have the right to protest. Moron. EDIT: I can see you will not reply. Fine. So I'll take back the personal insults. | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
THe entire place stinks like dirty hippies everywhere you go. It permeates the miniture campis and has spread to the town. One hippy can cause a stink over 10s of miles. I dotn live there, but I am sure my opinion is more important and knowledgable than anyone that actually DOES, since they are all hippies. The 19 people were probably just arrested for smelling so bad. Their pungent attacks were more than good enough reasons to arrest them. Duh? | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
On April 30 2005 10:55 Excalibur_Z wrote: I think you mean the Rodney King video... and even that wasn't unwarranted since the officers were being provoked. I think you guys are missing the big picture here. You treat the police and the military like they are soulless killing machines. They are just average Joes like you and me. They have a very stressful job that you could never hope to do. They gamble with their lives daily because you never know when a person will turn violent. I'll turn your attention to the story in SF where a white cop was shot in the neck and killed by two black 17-year-olds as they were robbing a bank. The officer yelled at them to stop and they just fired. The police code forces the officer to set aside his survival instincts and open fire, and instead gamble on the actions of an unstable mind. Do you ever stop to think Excal? How the FUCK was a black man WITHERING ON THE GROUND IN PAIN, after being hit SEVENTEEN times with a baton provoking ANYONE. I dont even support this hippie convention, but saying fucking dumb things like that, when you obviously have no clue WTF happened simply flags you as a conservative jackass with no hold on reality. Rodney King WAS brutalized by the police. He was beaten with batons, these people were nto brutalized. They were incapacitated one at a time by the police as they were trained to operate. No argument there from me. However, there is no reasons to hold to one "position" simply because that is your political stance. Emerson wrote that such postitions are often the sign of a small mind or an insecure intellect... | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13358 Posts
Damn hippies. | ||
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Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
And I believe this to be the case with the situation at UCSC. Right or wrong, the police were just doing their job. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
That is not so in the US military, you will not be court martialed ever for following the orders of a superior officer. But, if I was told to beat a man well after he had already been subdued, I would not do it. Would I be fired? Maybe, but perhaps morals are a good thing to have after all... | ||
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Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
But overall, you did bring up a good point :O | ||
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