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Slakter
Sweden1947 Posts
On September 18 2011 08:34 plated.rawr wrote: EDIT: How long did Ockupationsfestivalen last, and when did it begin to break up? Around 20 minutes before we were surrounded and then we sat there for 3-4 hours. Waste of time. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:55 Slakter wrote: Around 20 minutes before we were surrounded and then we sat there for 3-4 hours. Waste of time. Well, this managed to last at least a whole day. Their stream isn't back up and they've cut power to Wall Street, so who knows if they're still there in full force. On September 18 2011 17:42 darkscream wrote: Being commander-in-chief of an army does not grant you the ability to break the law. You might choose to do it because there's nobody powerful enough to stop you, but might does not make right. It isn't right, but you can still break the law. Vietnam was a "police action", as were many other wars, with the only reason there was little opposition going in was to stop the spread of Communism. On September 18 2011 17:28 Mobius_1 wrote: Such protests only widen the chasm between Wall Street and the rest of the economy, when really they should be cooperating and helping the economy back on track, with a more prudent driver who has learnt lessons from 2008. That was one of the plans if i'm not mistaken, to get some people from Congress/the White House to try and help fix the failed banking system. The problem is the gridlock situation we're in, because the protesters don't look like they're willing to negotiate with the "financial terrorists". | ||
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two.watup
United States371 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 18 2011 22:11 two.watup wrote: The banking system didn't fail. Individual banks made poor investments. It did. Back in the day all the individual banks were separate so they had to take into deep consideration whether you could pay off that car or house within a reasonable amount of time. Now it's all centralized so the individual banks don't actually lose anything, even if you've got the worst credit rating in the world they'll let you get the loan. | ||
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two.watup
United States371 Posts
On September 18 2011 22:18 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: It did. Back in the day all the individual banks were separate so they had to take into deep consideration whether you could pay off that car or house within a reasonable amount of time. Now it's all centralized so the individual banks don't actually lose anything, even if you've got the worst credit rating in the world they'll let you get the loan. The Federal Reserve System was created in 1913. I assumed "That was one of the plans if i'm not mistaken, to get some people from Congress/the White House to try and help fix the failed banking system." meant the housing market crash. If you meant the banking system failing in 1913, then I'm glad to let you know that the Federal Reserve was created, and has successfully prevented another similar failure. Worry not young netizen. | ||
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smokeyhoodoo
United States1021 Posts
On September 18 2011 08:34 plated.rawr wrote: This sounds like an interesting initiative, but being the pessimist I am, I doubt it'll do anything towards its goal. What it might do though, is create a left-wing political splinter similiar to the Tea Party for the republicans. Who knows, maybe what we're seeing here is the beginning of a more varied political discourse and election possibilities in the US? Why do you think this is leftwing? | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5080 Posts
Why do you think this is leftwing? Because it is whether you admit to it or not, duh. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 19 2011 00:36 DeepElemBlues wrote: Because it is whether you admit to it or not, duh. Why is this left-wing? I'm on the right and I support this. I mean, I see where poor vs. rich becomes left vs. right, but these people "officially" feel like they're getting ripped off, not because they want some of that money. Unofficially, that's open-ended. | ||
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plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
My perspective on it being left-wing was from the initial impression that this was a 'the people versus the money'-thing, an initiative against the unequal distribution of power in society between one person and the other simply based on the wealth and the ease of increasing said wealth. Of course, if it's simply people whining because they might get taxed due to the current financial situation and pointing the blame on the financial institutions, then I guess it's right-winged, sure. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32160 Posts
On September 19 2011 00:39 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Why is this left-wing? I'm on the right and I support this. I mean, I see where poor vs. rich becomes left vs. right, but these people "officially" feel like they're getting ripped off, not because they want some of that money. Unofficially, that's open-ended. it's a protest with underlying themes being market regulation and dividing the wealth. How the hell is that not left wing>? | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 19 2011 00:48 Hawk wrote: it's a protest with underlying themes being market regulation and dividing the wealth. How the hell is that not left wing>? Neither left nor right is a corporatocracy. You could argue that this is to separate the increasing bond between government and the corporations that increase it, which is a right-wing ideal. | ||
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smokeyhoodoo
United States1021 Posts
On September 19 2011 00:36 DeepElemBlues wrote: Because it is whether you admit to it or not, duh. That answers my question thoroughly, thank you. | ||
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smokeyhoodoo
United States1021 Posts
On September 19 2011 00:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Neither left nor right is a corporatocracy. You could argue that this is to separate the increasing bond between government and the corporations that increase it, which is a right-wing ideal. I read more about it, it certainly is left-wing. Disappointing. Liberals are good at diagnosing a problem, and then think of all the wonderful ways to make it worse. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5080 Posts
Neither left nor right is a corporatocracy. You could argue that this is to separate the increasing bond between government and the corporations that increase it, which is a right-wing ideal. lolol no it isn't a right-wing ideal this is a left-wing movement because it wants government to be the heavy. simple as that. they want government to throw its weight around in a way they approve of. | ||
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smokeyhoodoo
United States1021 Posts
On September 18 2011 22:26 two.watup wrote: The Federal Reserve System was created in 1913. I assumed "That was one of the plans if i'm not mistaken, to get some people from Congress/the White House to try and help fix the failed banking system." meant the housing market crash. If you meant the banking system failing in 1913, then I'm glad to let you know that the Federal Reserve was created, and has successfully prevented another similar failure. Worry not young netizen. Yea, they can just enslave the poor to save the banks. | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
If you agree that freedom is the right to communicate, to live, to be, to go, to love, to do what you will without the impositions of others, then you might be one of us. Yeah! Sounds good! If you agree that a person is entitled to the sweat of their brows, that being talented at management should not entitle others to act like overseers and overlords, that all workers should have the right to engage in decisions, democratically, then you might be one of us. Uh... wait... You want to eliminate management in a business and make decisions democratically? That sounds like a terrible, terrible idea. Look no further than UAW. If you agree that state and corporation are merely two sides of the same oppressive power structure, if you realize how media distorts things to preserve it, how it pits the people against the people to remain in power, then you might be one of us. Uh... Isn't that what you are trying to do? Pit some people against Wall Street people? Rich against poor? Workers against management? If you agree that power is not right, that life trumps property, then you might be one of us. Life trumps property.... ok I'm done reading. | ||
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Tewks44
United States2032 Posts
1. Create a law to forbid the management of a company from making executive decisions 2. Business decisions must be made through a democratic process (it is unclear who will be allowed to participate in this democratic process, but I would assume the owners, aka shareholders, are the presumed voters) 3.management's role will be to carry out the decisions made by this democratic process of shareholders These basic objectives seem to be muddled within a large amount of generally unorganized politically charged ranting about rights and the evils of corporations and how the free press is somehow involved in some kind of scheme to oppress "the people." I don't see how creating oppressive laws concerning the governance of businesses will solve anything though. | ||
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Tewks44
United States2032 Posts
On September 19 2011 01:43 smokeyhoodoo wrote: Yea, they can just enslave the poor to save the banks. wow, that statement really has some impact behind it. Although if you really think about it banks have absolutely no right to enslave poor people. If you are trying to use some kind of vague metaphor about how poor people will get indebted to banks, then I just thought I'd let you know banks can't be blamed because people take out a loan that their income does not support. What happened to accountability and good decision making. It seems in today's society you can get yourself in extreme debt at YOUR OWN DOING and then blame the banks for not giving away their money and actually expecting to get paid back. | ||
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qosu.tQ
United States32 Posts
Sounds deliciously stupid. | ||
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Tewks44
United States2032 Posts
On September 19 2011 02:19 qosu.tQ wrote: Translated; "I don't understand the financial sector or how Wall Street works, so it must be evil and corrupt". Sounds deliciously stupid. that's precisely the impression I got. That's why there's no point to arguing about whether or not this is a left-wing or right-wing movement. This is an ignorant movement and I bet over half the people at this protest wouldn't even be able to answer the question "what is the final objective this movement hopes to achieve?" | ||
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