On September 27 2011 05:57 TanGeng wrote: I'm going to back up Kwark on that one. Juxtaposing and equating a non-violent protest with a violent destruction of a building is out of order regardless of your personal connection with any possible 9/11/2001 victims. Looks a lot like grandstanding.
What is the point of this protest. Occupy Wall Street, and show pictures of us being beaten up by NYPD? I heard protests by some of these protesters about how these cops are part of some conspiracy to defend rich bankers. I heard a guy talking about 9/11 conspiracy by the US government. Some of these people are simply just crazy.
There's a lot of people, some of whom aren't at wall street right now who believe the police are being bought/manipulated and there's a very large portion of people who believe in the conspiracy about 9/11.
Calling people crazy because you don't agree with them is not a good way to handle things. You seem to be very upset about this protest, more than would be the standard, and I can not fathom why.
If you believe that 9/11 was an inside job, then you are crazy.
This kind of one way or the other bullshit is abhorrent and just that, bullshit. I personally think that the 9/11 inside conspiracy is just a pile of drek, but I'm willing to listen to people who want to discuss it. If you can't keep an informed and yet open mind, you've become stubborn and close minded. That's fine, but it shows fear and anxiety or an otherwise complete self-suredness when you speak like that.
He never said he doesn't listen to those people. He just called them crazy.
On September 27 2011 05:57 TanGeng wrote: I'm going to back up Kwark on that one. Juxtaposing and equating a non-violent protest with a violent destruction of a building is out of order regardless of your personal connection with any possible 9/11/2001 victims. Looks a lot like grandstanding.
What is the point of this protest. Occupy Wall Street, and show pictures of us being beaten up by NYPD? I heard protests by some of these protesters about how these cops are part of some conspiracy to defend rich bankers. I heard a guy talking about 9/11 conspiracy by the US government. Some of these people are simply just crazy.
Yeah, a lot of people in America are retarded. That's life. You deal with it. The police have a duty to not attack the citizens they swore to serve when the citizens in question are exercising their democratic right to peaceful protest. If the people in the twin towers didn't die for freedom what did they die for? How dare the NYPD shit on their name like this!
Dude, I'm not defending the cops. Read and comprehend. I'm asking what is the point of their protest. On their website is a bunch of photos and videos of cops doing wrong things to them.
It's basically become a protest about their victimization. As for any 9/11 ties, trust me, walk around and you can find a 9/11 nut. So if you want some separation between 9/11 and this protest, go tell that to the protesters.
Two wrongs making a right is exactly the kind of logic I'd expect from the guy who brought up 9/11 when defending police brutality. It doesn't quite work though, does it. Especially when one of the wrongs was an attack on American citizens in New York and so was the other.
That's not what I did. You are clueless. Their protest has in part turned to becoming about police victimization. Some of them tie it to 9/11 being an inside job, and they say the police defend bankers. I was saying wtf, these cops actually died trying to save people during 9/11.
BTW, maybe there's a point of miscommunication, but I was reposting a conversation. So maybe some of you aren't understanding that my original post was a response to the protesters. There's some context missing, but I did state that in my first line it was a post from another website.
On September 26 2011 12:13 Dapper_Cad wrote: Good loans? Bad loans? Who knows? What is known is that the decision to loan all that money was made without the knowledge or scrutiny of the public which now hold the debt.
Sounds peachy.
No, the banks hold the debt! And should they not pay the money back (highly unlikely) it's an issue for the Fed not the taxpayers. Fed action does not involve taxpayer money and it is SUPPOSED to be secret - it's all part of the "bank runs are bad" thing.
What am I misunderstanding here?
The entity that is owed the money holds the debt, the fed holds the debt and the fed's debt is public debt:
"Debt held by the public comprises securities held by investors outside the federal government, including that held by investors, the Federal Reserve System and foreign, state and local governments."
Seriously what have I misunderstood? Help me out.
nothing it's pretty precise, FED issues money, this money comes from tax payers, this is because the way money is issued is basically giving I OWE YOU`s (DEBT) to the fed which then the fed turn into money + interest and that money is used for TARP, Bailouts etc
How can you see this? well every time such quantities are issued, the government has to cut public spending because the budget has shrinked or priority on spending changes.
Or just look at the what happened to the public debt in America and the European Countries between 2007 and 2008.
No, when the Fed issues money it does not come from taxpayers. The money is new money.
TARP on the other hand came from taxpayers but did not cause the budget to shrink since it was funded with borrowed money.
On September 27 2011 05:57 TanGeng wrote: I'm going to back up Kwark on that one. Juxtaposing and equating a non-violent protest with a violent destruction of a building is out of order regardless of your personal connection with any possible 9/11/2001 victims. Looks a lot like grandstanding.
What is the point of this protest. Occupy Wall Street, and show pictures of us being beaten up by NYPD? I heard protests by some of these protesters about how these cops are part of some conspiracy to defend rich bankers. I heard a guy talking about 9/11 conspiracy by the US government. Some of these people are simply just crazy.
There's a lot of people, some of whom aren't at wall street right now who believe the police are being bought/manipulated and there's a very large portion of people who believe in the conspiracy about 9/11.
Calling people crazy because you don't agree with them is not a good way to handle things. You seem to be very upset about this protest, more than would be the standard, and I can not fathom why.
If you believe that 9/11 was an inside job, then you are crazy.
This kind of one way or the other bullshit is abhorrent and just that, bullshit. I personally think that the 9/11 inside conspiracy is just a pile of drek, but I'm willing to listen to people who want to discuss it. If you can't keep an informed and yet open mind, you've become stubborn and close minded. That's fine, but it shows fear and anxiety or an otherwise complete self-suredness when you speak like that.
If you keep your mind sufficiently open people will throw a lot of shit into it.
Not everything needs to be discussed. Some things are just fact.
Also you cant really blame this on 9/11 or anything like that, that's just taking it too far. But i will say that some of the "police brutality" is just protesters asking for it. At least the few clips i've seen.
On September 27 2011 05:31 Spicy Pepper wrote: The following is my post on their website. I pretty much don't agree with this protest.
So has this turned into a protest about your victimization by NYPD? Some of the actions of the police may have been wrong, even completely wrong, but what is the message?
You realize that the NYPD is filled with guys who've had their brothers and sisters die in 9/11, an attack on the US financial base. The NYPD is filled with former soldiers who've fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. So all I see on this website is pictures and videos of the NYPD hurting you? Is that your message, victimization?
This protest doesn't make sense. You DON'T actually represent 99%, but more like 0.05% of the population. I don't work on Wall Street, but let's be honest about the numbers. Even if each of the 5,000 protesters represented 100 US citizens each, then you still represent less than 1%. If it's really the top 1%, then you should protest every successful actor, musician, surgeon, tv cook, reality celebrity, athlete, basically anyone with any form of financial success.
The top 1% makes around $350k to $400k. This is very successful SMALL and medium business owners. That's who's greedy? Your local successful clothing shops, home improvement shops, the mechanics, your dentist, etc. They're all greedy, I guess, as every human is greedy about some things.
It isn't greed that makes things bad. Adam Smith discovered that competing greedy people could create a competitive marketplace that actually benefits the consumers and society. It's counter-intuitive, but an absolutely beautiful concept that he discovered. This economic freedom to compete in a non-centrally regulated environment, without subsidies and bailouts, is what allowed the US to become such a great country.
The problem is that our money is now devalued by the Federal Reserve, and the government subsidizes everything, creates entitlement programs, and is the central body to regulate so many industries. When you allocate all the power and influence into a single body, then that body becomes susceptible to corporate interest rather than the people. Is that what you're protesting, because you guys are very far from Washington D.C. The people who voted for the bailout are in Congress, along with the President. The citizens voted for representatives who implemented the bailouts, so you guys should be protesting politicians or fellow citizens.
Or maybe it's devaluation of the dollar that you are protesting. If so, go to Washington DC. There's a bank there that devalues the dollar, funds the bailouts for other banks, motor companies, etc, and it funds the wars and numerous subsidies in this countries. Being on Wall Street, the place that is laying off workers left and right, with an incoherent message is trying to accomplish a goal of chaos, with no idea of a solution. Some of those banks have even repaid TARP. You guys are doing the average New Yorker a disservice by diluting the police force that's needed to prevent and enforce crime.
Here's a smart guy who did his research. I'm actually proud at how he looked up this group's claims and goals. Very rare thing in today's society. Most people just let their emotionals control them and go beyond jumping the gun, they go for it at a dead sprint and fly over the darn thing
On September 27 2011 06:08 Spicy Pepper wrote: If you believe that 9/11 was an inside job, then you are crazy.
Not here to debate 9/11 but buildings do not fall into their own footprint, 3 times in a row. There is PHD courses dedicated to do that very thing - make a building fall into its own footprint.
Why would anyone think the gov. did us wrong? wake up
You are perfect for this protest, go protect the 99%.
On September 27 2011 05:57 TanGeng wrote: I'm going to back up Kwark on that one. Juxtaposing and equating a non-violent protest with a violent destruction of a building is out of order regardless of your personal connection with any possible 9/11/2001 victims. Looks a lot like grandstanding.
What is the point of this protest. Occupy Wall Street, and show pictures of us being beaten up by NYPD? I heard protests by some of these protesters about how these cops are part of some conspiracy to defend rich bankers. I heard a guy talking about 9/11 conspiracy by the US government. Some of these people are simply just crazy.
There's a lot of people, some of whom aren't at wall street right now who believe the police are being bought/manipulated and there's a very large portion of people who believe in the conspiracy about 9/11.
Calling people crazy because you don't agree with them is not a good way to handle things. You seem to be very upset about this protest, more than would be the standard, and I can not fathom why.
If you believe that 9/11 was an inside job, then you are crazy.
This kind of one way or the other bullshit is abhorrent and just that, bullshit. I personally think that the 9/11 inside conspiracy is just a pile of drek, but I'm willing to listen to people who want to discuss it. If you can't keep an informed and yet open mind, you've become stubborn and close minded. That's fine, but it shows fear and anxiety or an otherwise complete self-suredness when you speak like that.
Yeah, I'm uninformed and close-minded. Why won't I listen to people who say the Holocaust and Moon Landings are a hoax?
I'm done with these loons. I'm very pro-civil liberties , not for deflating currency, less bailouts, less wars, etc. Things that the average American is for, but this protest has too many nuts ranting about how some super rich dudes are out to get us all.
On September 27 2011 05:57 TanGeng wrote: I'm going to back up Kwark on that one. Juxtaposing and equating a non-violent protest with a violent destruction of a building is out of order regardless of your personal connection with any possible 9/11/2001 victims. Looks a lot like grandstanding.
What is the point of this protest. Occupy Wall Street, and show pictures of us being beaten up by NYPD? I heard protests by some of these protesters about how these cops are part of some conspiracy to defend rich bankers. I heard a guy talking about 9/11 conspiracy by the US government. Some of these people are simply just crazy.
There's a lot of people, some of whom aren't at wall street right now who believe the police are being bought/manipulated and there's a very large portion of people who believe in the conspiracy about 9/11.
Calling people crazy because you don't agree with them is not a good way to handle things. You seem to be very upset about this protest, more than would be the standard, and I can not fathom why.
If you believe that 9/11 was an inside job, then you are crazy.
This kind of one way or the other bullshit is abhorrent and just that, bullshit. I personally think that the 9/11 inside conspiracy is just a pile of drek, but I'm willing to listen to people who want to discuss it. If you can't keep an informed and yet open mind, you've become stubborn and close minded. That's fine, but it shows fear and anxiety or an otherwise complete self-suredness when you speak like that.
If you keep your mind sufficiently open people will throw a lot of shit into it.
Not everything needs to be discussed. Some things are just fact.
Also you cant really blame this on 9/11 or anything like that, that's just taking it too far. But i will say that some of the "police brutality" is just protesters asking for it. At least the few clips i've seen.
Hence why I said "informed, yet open." **Nothing** evades the need to be discussed. As a future anthropologist, your words are sad to me. As a human being, they're terrifying.
Science, especially, needs constant review. Nothing can be taken as 100% fact. Look at the issue with neutrino from CERN. We could be changing facts *today*
I will 100% agree that 9/11 has dick to do with anything in this I will 100% say that police brutality is NEVER brought on by anyone "asking for it." They're police for shit's sake. They're above the common man's desire to strike back, they're there to keep peace.
On September 27 2011 05:31 Spicy Pepper wrote: The following is my post on their website. I pretty much don't agree with this protest.
So has this turned into a protest about your victimization by NYPD? Some of the actions of the police may have been wrong, even completely wrong, but what is the message?
You realize that the NYPD is filled with guys who've had their brothers and sisters die in 9/11, an attack on the US financial base. The NYPD is filled with former soldiers who've fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. So all I see on this website is pictures and videos of the NYPD hurting you? Is that your message, victimization?
This protest doesn't make sense. You DON'T actually represent 99%, but more like 0.05% of the population. I don't work on Wall Street, but let's be honest about the numbers. Even if each of the 5,000 protesters represented 100 US citizens each, then you still represent less than 1%. If it's really the top 1%, then you should protest every successful actor, musician, surgeon, tv cook, reality celebrity, athlete, basically anyone with any form of financial success.
The top 1% makes around $350k to $400k. This is very successful SMALL and medium business owners. That's who's greedy? Your local successful clothing shops, home improvement shops, the mechanics, your dentist, etc. They're all greedy, I guess, as every human is greedy about some things.
It isn't greed that makes things bad. Adam Smith discovered that competing greedy people could create a competitive marketplace that actually benefits the consumers and society. It's counter-intuitive, but an absolutely beautiful concept that he discovered. This economic freedom to compete in a non-centrally regulated environment, without subsidies and bailouts, is what allowed the US to become such a great country.
The problem is that our money is now devalued by the Federal Reserve, and the government subsidizes everything, creates entitlement programs, and is the central body to regulate so many industries. When you allocate all the power and influence into a single body, then that body becomes susceptible to corporate interest rather than the people. Is that what you're protesting, because you guys are very far from Washington D.C. The people who voted for the bailout are in Congress, along with the President. The citizens voted for representatives who implemented the bailouts, so you guys should be protesting politicians or fellow citizens.
Or maybe it's devaluation of the dollar that you are protesting. If so, go to Washington DC. There's a bank there that devalues the dollar, funds the bailouts for other banks, motor companies, etc, and it funds the wars and numerous subsidies in this countries. Being on Wall Street, the place that is laying off workers left and right, with an incoherent message is trying to accomplish a goal of chaos, with no idea of a solution. Some of those banks have even repaid TARP. You guys are doing the average New Yorker a disservice by diluting the police force that's needed to prevent and enforce crime.
Here's a smart guy who did his research. I'm actually proud at how he looked up this group's claims and goals. Very rare thing in today's society. Most people just let their emotionals control them and go beyond jumping the gun, they go for it at a dead sprint and fly over the darn thing
Lmao. So you don't think using the 9/11 bit and going on an anti-federal reserve tirade is letting "emotions control" it? Or did you think it wasn't "jumping the gun?"
1. Organize a giant protest 2. Get thousands of people together and encourage them to yell and scream at police 3. When some of the thousands of police officers involved beat you down, make videos and post on the internet 4. ??? 5. Accomplish something
On September 26 2011 23:40 jdseemoreglass wrote: The majority of people who protest at these things are ignorant of politics and don't give a damn about "democracy" or any other ideal. Half of them are there to see action, the other half just wants to stick it to authority figures. All of them are there to feel self-important and/or victimized.
Black and white thinking is unhealthy
When you say black and white thinking is unhealthy, do you mean that black and white thinking is healthy? If not, isn't it true that you are saying black and white thinking is "white" (unhealthy) and not "black" (healthy). And if that's true, aren't you guilty of such thinking as well?
I meant the more dichotomic your thinking is the more you tend to generalize without reasoning the bigger is the bias of your perception of reality
On September 26 2011 12:13 Dapper_Cad wrote: Good loans? Bad loans? Who knows? What is known is that the decision to loan all that money was made without the knowledge or scrutiny of the public which now hold the debt.
Sounds peachy.
No, the banks hold the debt! And should they not pay the money back (highly unlikely) it's an issue for the Fed not the taxpayers. Fed action does not involve taxpayer money and it is SUPPOSED to be secret - it's all part of the "bank runs are bad" thing.
What am I misunderstanding here?
The entity that is owed the money holds the debt, the fed holds the debt and the fed's debt is public debt:
"Debt held by the public comprises securities held by investors outside the federal government, including that held by investors, the Federal Reserve System and foreign, state and local governments."
Seriously what have I misunderstood? Help me out.
To the Fed money lended to banks is an asset. To the banks it's a liability.
The Fed is a separate entity from the US government. When they lend money it's new money - it does not come from taxpayers.
What is the asset that the Fed holds if it's not debt?
If the public don't hold the debt then why is it included in public debt figures? Could you provide some data on historical public debt without Fed held Debt included?
On September 27 2011 05:31 Spicy Pepper wrote: The following is my post on their website. I pretty much don't agree with this protest.
So has this turned into a protest about your victimization by NYPD? Some of the actions of the police may have been wrong, even completely wrong, but what is the message?
You realize that the NYPD is filled with guys who've had their brothers and sisters die in 9/11, an attack on the US financial base. The NYPD is filled with former soldiers who've fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. So all I see on this website is pictures and videos of the NYPD hurting you? Is that your message, victimization?
This protest doesn't make sense. You DON'T actually represent 99%, but more like 0.05% of the population. I don't work on Wall Street, but let's be honest about the numbers. Even if each of the 5,000 protesters represented 100 US citizens each, then you still represent less than 1%. If it's really the top 1%, then you should protest every successful actor, musician, surgeon, tv cook, reality celebrity, athlete, basically anyone with any form of financial success.
The top 1% makes around $350k to $400k. This is very successful SMALL and medium business owners. That's who's greedy? Your local successful clothing shops, home improvement shops, the mechanics, your dentist, etc. They're all greedy, I guess, as every human is greedy about some things.
It isn't greed that makes things bad. Adam Smith discovered that competing greedy people could create a competitive marketplace that actually benefits the consumers and society. It's counter-intuitive, but an absolutely beautiful concept that he discovered. This economic freedom to compete in a non-centrally regulated environment, without subsidies and bailouts, is what allowed the US to become such a great country.
The problem is that our money is now devalued by the Federal Reserve, and the government subsidizes everything, creates entitlement programs, and is the central body to regulate so many industries. When you allocate all the power and influence into a single body, then that body becomes susceptible to corporate interest rather than the people. Is that what you're protesting, because you guys are very far from Washington D.C. The people who voted for the bailout are in Congress, along with the President. The citizens voted for representatives who implemented the bailouts, so you guys should be protesting politicians or fellow citizens.
Or maybe it's devaluation of the dollar that you are protesting. If so, go to Washington DC. There's a bank there that devalues the dollar, funds the bailouts for other banks, motor companies, etc, and it funds the wars and numerous subsidies in this countries. Being on Wall Street, the place that is laying off workers left and right, with an incoherent message is trying to accomplish a goal of chaos, with no idea of a solution. Some of those banks have even repaid TARP. You guys are doing the average New Yorker a disservice by diluting the police force that's needed to prevent and enforce crime.
I hate these protestors, but you are delusional. Spouting some 9/11 rhetoric, which has already been pointed out to be complete nonsense, but going off and talking about Adam Smith and what have you? Are you completely out of your mind?
You need to go visit a tea party rally and stay with like minded individuals. This is the most sensationalist nonsense I've ever read from a non-journalist.
It is absurd to reject his comments about the Federal Reserve and Adam Smith as tangential or irrelevant. This is exactly the heart of the debate here. The protestors are essentially of the opinion that Wall Street is controlling and corrupting Washington. He (and other libertarians) are arguing that giving government the power to regulate financial markets FORCES corporations to try to manipulate the system. Read some Ayn Rand.
Do I agree? No. I believe that the profit incentive runs contrary to the best interest and well being of people, as demonstrated historically through the infractions of Exxon and BP (unwilling to accept financial responsibility for their environmental disasters), Monsanto (selling poison milk, creating crops which destroy the ecosystem), Enron, the subprime mortgage crisis, the Haliburton war on Iraq, etc on and on for any multi-national corporation you can name. I don't see how decreasing regulation solves these types of problems.
But the last thing we should be telling people is to "stay with like minded individuals". That is the same as saying "I don't want to hear the opinions of people that disagree with me".
The one problem i have with this protest is people comparing it to the Arab Spring. This is nothing like the Arab Spring in ideology and certainly not magnitude. Please don't say that you're "inspired" by the Arab Spring, because you're only belittling what they have done. Protesters in the middle east were killed for what the believed. They were tortured and beaten, but they fought back bravely with words and with violence. This small "uprising" is nothing in comparison, and the difficulties of those protesting are nothing in comparison to those of members of the Arab Spring uprisings.
That doesn't mean i think it's a dumb and worthless protest, but claiming it is an American Arab Spring is only garnering you more enemies than supporters.
On September 27 2011 06:45 LXR wrote: The one problem i have with this protest is people comparing it to the Arab Spring. This is nothing like the Arab Spring in ideology and certainly not magnitude. Please don't say that you're "inspired" by the Arab Spring, because you're only belittling what they have done. Protesters in the middle east were killed for what the believed. They were tortured and beaten, but they fought back bravely with words and with violence. This small "uprising" is nothing in comparison, and the difficulties of those protesting are nothing in comparison to those of members of the Arab Spring uprisings.
That doesn't mean i think it's a dumb and worthless protest, but claiming it is an American Arab Spring is only garnering you more enemies than supporters.
That and showing how pathetic people have gotten at creatively speaking. Next it'll be a Protest-Gate or something uninspired and easy enough to draw allusion to.
On September 26 2011 12:13 Dapper_Cad wrote: Good loans? Bad loans? Who knows? What is known is that the decision to loan all that money was made without the knowledge or scrutiny of the public which now hold the debt.
Sounds peachy.
No, the banks hold the debt! And should they not pay the money back (highly unlikely) it's an issue for the Fed not the taxpayers. Fed action does not involve taxpayer money and it is SUPPOSED to be secret - it's all part of the "bank runs are bad" thing.
What am I misunderstanding here?
The entity that is owed the money holds the debt, the fed holds the debt and the fed's debt is public debt:
"Debt held by the public comprises securities held by investors outside the federal government, including that held by investors, the Federal Reserve System and foreign, state and local governments."
Seriously what have I misunderstood? Help me out.
To the Fed money lended to banks is an asset. To the banks it's a liability.
The Fed is a separate entity from the US government. When they lend money it's new money - it does not come from taxpayers.
What is the asset that the Fed holds if it's not debt?
If the public don't hold the debt then why is it included in public debt figures? Could you provide some data on historical public debt without Fed held Debt included?
OK, poor wording on my end. I was trying to make the distinction that government actions (TARP etc) involves taxpayer money whereas Fed action does not.
The money they are owed IS debt, but unlike TARP the Fed didn't have to go out and borrow money to then relend it out to save the banks.
I brought this up because someone commented that the Fed threw $16 trillion to the banks to bail them out without concern for taxpayers. Given how absolutely huge this number is it tends to freak people out which isn't necessary as taxpayers are not at risk for a variety of reasons.
On September 27 2011 05:31 Spicy Pepper wrote: The following is my post on their website. I pretty much don't agree with this protest.
So has this turned into a protest about your victimization by NYPD? Some of the actions of the police may have been wrong, even completely wrong, but what is the message?
You realize that the NYPD is filled with guys who've had their brothers and sisters die in 9/11, an attack on the US financial base. The NYPD is filled with former soldiers who've fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. So all I see on this website is pictures and videos of the NYPD hurting you? Is that your message, victimization?
This protest doesn't make sense. You DON'T actually represent 99%, but more like 0.05% of the population. I don't work on Wall Street, but let's be honest about the numbers. Even if each of the 5,000 protesters represented 100 US citizens each, then you still represent less than 1%. If it's really the top 1%, then you should protest every successful actor, musician, surgeon, tv cook, reality celebrity, athlete, basically anyone with any form of financial success.
The top 1% makes around $350k to $400k. This is very successful SMALL and medium business owners. That's who's greedy? Your local successful clothing shops, home improvement shops, the mechanics, your dentist, etc. They're all greedy, I guess, as every human is greedy about some things.
It isn't greed that makes things bad. Adam Smith discovered that competing greedy people could create a competitive marketplace that actually benefits the consumers and society. It's counter-intuitive, but an absolutely beautiful concept that he discovered. This economic freedom to compete in a non-centrally regulated environment, without subsidies and bailouts, is what allowed the US to become such a great country.
The problem is that our money is now devalued by the Federal Reserve, and the government subsidizes everything, creates entitlement programs, and is the central body to regulate so many industries. When you allocate all the power and influence into a single body, then that body becomes susceptible to corporate interest rather than the people. Is that what you're protesting, because you guys are very far from Washington D.C. The people who voted for the bailout are in Congress, along with the President. The citizens voted for representatives who implemented the bailouts, so you guys should be protesting politicians or fellow citizens.
Or maybe it's devaluation of the dollar that you are protesting. If so, go to Washington DC. There's a bank there that devalues the dollar, funds the bailouts for other banks, motor companies, etc, and it funds the wars and numerous subsidies in this countries. Being on Wall Street, the place that is laying off workers left and right, with an incoherent message is trying to accomplish a goal of chaos, with no idea of a solution. Some of those banks have even repaid TARP. You guys are doing the average New Yorker a disservice by diluting the police force that's needed to prevent and enforce crime.
I guess the biggest problem is the regular breaking of rules by the politicians and business. They can't stick to a clear, transparent framework, but have to water-down everything and enforce lax regulations. We need to create laws, which ensure that everyone is responsible for his actions, so that certain catastrophes don't happen in the first place (BP oil-leak for instance).
Yes, people mix everything in, because our societies lack a clear structure because powerful people want it to be lacking a clear structure. Otherwise it would be possible to backtrack from an effect to a cause.
The general concept of competition is helpful, but not the end of all economic policy. Competition in zero-sum games can be pointless, competition on a high level can encourage massive abuses like doping.
I could go on writing about dozens of unsolved problems, but will spare you that. It's not about money, but quality and logic. Just look at the internet and you can see how business is conducted in practice. It's time-consuming and idiotic.
Just for the record, I find a demo to be relatively pointless.
EPT
