EPTOccupy Wall Street - Page 15
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TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
On September 27 2011 05:57 TanGeng wrote: I'm going to back up Kwark on that one. Juxtaposing and equating a non-violent protest with a violent destruction of a building is out of order regardless of your personal connection with any possible 9/11/2001 victims. Looks a lot like grandstanding. What is the point of this protest. Occupy Wall Street, and show pictures of us being beaten up by NYPD? I heard protests by some of these protesters about how these cops are part of some conspiracy to defend rich bankers. I heard a guy talking about 9/11 conspiracy by the US government. Some of these people are simply just crazy. | ||
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TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
On September 27 2011 05:59 KwarK wrote: Would you like to demonstrate any kind of logical connection between 9/11 and the protests today which might justify police attacking peaceful American citizens or would you just like to keep working the "great national tragedy" angle? I mean I can see why you would because I'm sure over there it works. If people don't immediately fall silent when you say "....cause 9/11" in a solemn voice then you can accuse them of hating America. But it's not quite the same thing as a good case and I can assure you that logic is the one thing the victims of 9/11 would want right now. Also my dog died and it was very sad so forgive me when I call you retarded. It was over ten years ago but whatever. That edit was kind of mean spirited :/ fair, but mean. Especially considering the 1st responders are still getting dicked at every turn. Not that I don't 100% agree lol | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
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Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:02 Spicy Pepper wrote: What is the point of this protest. Occupy Wall Street, and show pictures of us being beaten up by NYPD? I heard protests by some of these protesters about how these cops are part of some conspiracy to defend rich bankers. I heard a guy talking about 9/11 conspiracy by the US government. Some of these people are simply just crazy. These people are protesting against the financial esthablishment, isn't that obvious? Its not their fault that their right to peaceful protest is being violated by the police. | ||
KwarK
United States41961 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:02 Spicy Pepper wrote: What is the point of this protest. Occupy Wall Street, and show pictures of us being beaten up by NYPD? I heard protests by some of these protesters about how these cops are part of some conspiracy to defend rich bankers. I heard a guy talking about 9/11 conspiracy by the US government. Some of these people are simply just crazy. Yeah, a lot of people in America are retarded. That's life. You deal with it. The police have a duty to not attack the citizens they swore to serve when the citizens in question are exercising their democratic right to peaceful protest. If the people in the twin towers didn't die for freedom what did they die for? How dare the NYPD shit on their name like this? How dare you invoke their name to defend it? Why do you hate America so much? | ||
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TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:02 Spicy Pepper wrote: What is the point of this protest. Occupy Wall Street, and show pictures of us being beaten up by NYPD? I heard protests by some of these protesters about how these cops are part of some conspiracy to defend rich bankers. I heard a guy talking about 9/11 conspiracy by the US government. Some of these people are simply just crazy. There's a lot of people, some of whom aren't at wall street right now who believe the police are being bought/manipulated and there's a very large portion of people who believe in the conspiracy about 9/11. Calling people crazy because you don't agree with them is not a good way to handle things. You seem to be very upset about this protest, more than would be the standard, and I can not fathom why. | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:04 KwarK wrote: Yeah, a lot of people in America are retarded. That's life. You deal with it. The police have a duty to not attack the citizens they swore to serve when the citizens in question are exercising their democratic right to peaceful protest. If the people in the twin towers didn't die for freedom what did they die for? How dare the NYPD shit on their name like this! Dude, I'm not defending the cops. Read and comprehend. I'm asking what is the point of their protest. On their website is a bunch of photos and videos of cops doing wrong things to them. It's basically become a protest about their victimization. As for any 9/11 ties, trust me, walk around and you can find a 9/11 nut. So if you want some separation between 9/11 and this protest, go tell that to the protesters. | ||
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TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:04 Spicy Pepper wrote: I've not sure who you guys think these people are, but they don't represent 99% of America. Not even close. No group of anyone anywhere represent 99% of anything. What's your point? It's a movement, it's started, it's being acted upon in the most basic ability offered to all citizens. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:06 TheGlassface wrote: There's a lot of people, some of whom aren't at wall street right now who believe the police are being bought/manipulated and there's a very large portion of people who believe in the conspiracy about 9/11. Calling people crazy because you don't agree with them is not a good way to handle things. You seem to be very upset about this protest, more than would be the standard, and I can not fathom why. If you believe that 9/11 was an inside job, then you are crazy. | ||
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HoldenR
Netherlands256 Posts
On September 27 2011 05:31 Spicy Pepper wrote: The following is my post on their website. I pretty much don't agree with this protest. So has this turned into a protest about your victimization by NYPD? Some of the actions of the police may have been wrong, even completely wrong, but what is the message? You realize that the NYPD is filled with guys who've had their brothers and sisters die in 9/11, an attack on the US financial base. The NYPD is filled with former soldiers who've fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. So all I see on this website is pictures and videos of the NYPD hurting you? Is that your message, victimization? This protest doesn't make sense. You DON'T actually represent 99%, but more like 0.05% of the population. I don't work on Wall Street, but let's be honest about the numbers. Even if each of the 5,000 protesters represented 100 US citizens each, then you still represent less than 1%. If it's really the top 1%, then you should protest every successful actor, musician, surgeon, tv cook, reality celebrity, athlete, basically anyone with any form of financial success. The top 1% makes around $350k to $400k. This is very successful SMALL and medium business owners. That's who's greedy? Your local successful clothing shops, home improvement shops, the mechanics, your dentist, etc. They're all greedy, I guess, as every human is greedy about some things. It isn't greed that makes things bad. Adam Smith discovered that competing greedy people could create a competitive marketplace that actually benefits the consumers and society. It's counter-intuitive, but an absolutely beautiful concept that he discovered. This economic freedom to compete in a non-centrally regulated environment, without subsidies and bailouts, is what allowed the US to become such a great country. The problem is that our money is now devalued by the Federal Reserve, and the government subsidizes everything, creates entitlement programs, and is the central body to regulate so many industries. When you allocate all the power and influence into a single body, then that body becomes susceptible to corporate interest rather than the people. Is that what you're protesting, because you guys are very far from Washington D.C. The people who voted for the bailout are in Congress, along with the President. The citizens voted for representatives who implemented the bailouts, so you guys should be protesting politicians or fellow citizens. Or maybe it's devaluation of the dollar that you are protesting. If so, go to Washington DC. There's a bank there that devalues the dollar, funds the bailouts for other banks, motor companies, etc, and it funds the wars and numerous subsidies in this countries. Being on Wall Street, the place that is laying off workers left and right, with an incoherent message is trying to accomplish a goal of chaos, with no idea of a solution. Some of those banks have even repaid TARP. You guys are doing the average New Yorker a disservice by diluting the police force that's needed to prevent and enforce crime. I hate these protestors, but you are delusional. Spouting some 9/11 rhetoric, which has already been pointed out to be complete nonsense, but going off and talking about Adam Smith and what have you? Are you completely out of your mind? You need to go visit a tea party rally and stay with like minded individuals. This is the most sensationalist nonsense I've ever read from a non-journalist. | ||
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KwarK
United States41961 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:07 Spicy Pepper wrote: Dude, I'm not defending the cops. Read and comprehend. I'm asking what is the point of their protest. On their website is a bunch of photos and videos of cops doing wrong things to them. It's basically become a protest about their victimization. As for any 9/11 ties, trust me, walk around and you can find a 9/11 nut. So if you want some separation between 9/11 and this protest, go tell that to the protesters. Two wrongs making a right is exactly the kind of logic I'd expect from the guy who brought up 9/11 when defending police brutality. It doesn't quite work though, does it. Especially when one of the wrongs was an attack on American citizens in New York and so was the other. | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:07 TheGlassface wrote: No group of anyone anywhere represent 99% of anything. What's your point? It's a movement, it's started, it's being acted upon in the most basic ability offered to all citizens. Exactly, but their movement states that they represent 99% vs 1%. It's a lie. | ||
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No_Roo
United States905 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:07 Spicy Pepper wrote: Dude, I'm not defending the cops. Read and comprehend. I'm asking what is the point of their protest. On their website is a bunch of photos and videos of cops doing wrong things to them. It's basically become a protest about their victimization. As for any 9/11 ties, trust me, walk around and you can find a 9/11 nut. So if you want some separation between 9/11 and this protest, go tell that to the protesters. You were defending them, you attempted to justify police officers assaulting peaceful protesters because the officers are victims of the WTC attacks. | ||
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Hoodlumx187x
1 Post
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
On September 26 2011 23:42 Hawk wrote: protests are hardly rare in this county. It's just that the good and valid ones are so often outnumbered by stupid shit like this For what value of rare? I was responding to the claim that "Protesting over nothing will just devalue the meaning of it" presenting a case in which protesting over nothing is, in itself, meaningful. Perhaps protest is rare in the U.S., perhaps not. If I wanted to put forward an argument for how rare, or not, protest is in the U.S. I'd start by comparing protesting hours per head of population to other developed countries, or in the U.S. historically. I suspect the U.S. would score pretty low on both these cases but I can't be sure, can you? As for "good" protests vs. "bad" protests I think your sweeping statement is completely subjective. Not only that but, if one is willing to admit that it's possible that one's own judgement isn't perfect, actually taking the time to understand a protest that one disagrees with seems like a rational position. Quite a while ago, when I was in high school, a lot of students tried to stop the BNP from being allowed to march, accusing them of being Nazis. I disagreed strongly with everything the BNP stood for, yet I couldn't support my fellow student's stand as I thought it was undemocratic. Given my argument (which is hardly infallable) that the measure of a democracy is how free citizens are to protest, then the measure of an individual's interest in democracy might be described by their interest in protests with which they don't agree. The protesters The majority are lazy, ignorant thrill-seekers. Have I got that about right? After watching a couple youtube vids, without going there, without knowing anyone involved, apparently without doing any research of any kind. Really TL? Really? Describing my gut reaction to the little I see: I do percieve a lot of self-righteous ego-inflating theatrics when I watch the vids, it kinda makes my skin crawl. But I also see a lot of angry people fueled by idealism, which kinda makes me interested. Why wall street? This seems to me to be completely tangential to the discussion, a distraction even. You can be sure that there was a lot of discussion about where to protest when it was being organised. I imagine pros and cons were weighed. If you stop foaming for a moment and think a little you can probably come up with some good reasons all by yourself. Why are they protesting? They don't have demands, they don't have leaders, they don't have a firm vision for change but they say change is needed. Do these things mean you should dismiss the protest? I actually quite like the lack of sound bites, it's almost as if they are treating me like an individual who doesn't need to be grabbed by the bull ring and towed to their position. So I did some research. You can too if you like. | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:09 HoldenR wrote: I hate these protestors, but you are delusional. Spouting some 9/11 rhetoric, which has already been pointed out to be complete nonsense, but going off and talking about Adam Smith and what have you? Are you completely out of your mind? You need to go visit a tea party rally and stay with like minded individuals. This is the most sensationalist nonsense I've ever read from a non-journalist. Everything I wrote is from talking to these protesters. Sorry, internet news readers. You guys most be in the know. But most people I know in NYC, from Wall Street to Midtown, think these people are annoying, stupid or crazy. I'll leave this to you guys. I even agree with many of their sentiments, but the protest is filled with wackos and much of it is nonsense. | ||
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TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:08 Spicy Pepper wrote: If you believe that 9/11 was an inside job, then you are crazy. This kind of one way or the other bullshit is abhorrent and just that, bullshit. I personally think that the 9/11 inside conspiracy is just a pile of drek, but I'm willing to listen to people who want to discuss it. If you can't keep an informed and yet open mind, you've become stubborn and close minded. That's fine, but it shows fear and anxiety or an otherwise complete self-suredness when you speak like that. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 26 2011 20:39 Dapper_Cad wrote: What am I misunderstanding here? The entity that is owed the money holds the debt, the fed holds the debt and the fed's debt is public debt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_public_debt "Debt held by the public comprises securities held by investors outside the federal government, including that held by investors, the Federal Reserve System and foreign, state and local governments." Seriously what have I misunderstood? Help me out. To the Fed money lended to banks is an asset. To the banks it's a liability. The Fed is a separate entity from the US government. When they lend money it's new money - it does not come from taxpayers. | ||
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