This is the first thread I've started I think period on TL and definitely the first in the General Forum, so I'm going to try to do as well as I can with it.
I don't know how many of you are familiar with just how many reality shows there are on television these days (I bet most of you are): zillions. Some of them are good, some of them are awful, most of them are middling. But I only ever saw one that really disturbed me, and it is this "Beyond Scared Straight" show.
COPs is one thing, watching "Inside Jail" or whatever with adults is one thing, watching grown men (the sheriffs and guards, not the adult inmates) provoke and then gang up on teenagers is another. It made me sick to my stomach. Does a 15 year old skateboarder who looks like he weighs about 120 pounds really need some 220-lb beefcake prison guard screaming shit in his face? When his crime was to be caught at school with a quarter-ounce of weed? Is this really going to turn him away from a life of crime?
Is "randomly" picking the biggest, meanest-looking kid in the room, telling him repeatedly you'll "fuck him up" and to "get out of my face" while you are the one who got in his face, and then having your guard buddy forearm him from behind to "make him sit back down" really going to make him think something other than "I need to be even bigger and badder so people can't do this to me"?
And then they have the interviews with the top sheriff of the country, principals, etc., and they all sit there like robots saying the same thing, how these kids need someone to set them straight, how they're trying to save these kids from a lifetime in jail, do they even watch the show? Do they even care? Do they wonder why kids in the inner city have no respect for authority figures in school when their only experience with non-parental authority is probably through being brutalized in "scared straight" programs?
I felt like I was watching Schindler's List or The Pianist to be honest. And I think part of the reason is that these guards and sheriffs feel like they have a freer reign to be abusive verbally and physically because they're going to be on "TV" and it needs to be "good TV."
You're never going to teach children, or adults for that matter, to respect the law and the authority that enforces it if the only justification for that authority they are ever shown is "we can hurt you and we will."
And I definitely blame "reality television" as well, there's a difference between COPS, where you're just riding with police on routine patrol (and sometimes on planned sting operations or raids) and whatever happens, happens. It's a different thing when you're going into a correctional facility where you know one side holds all the power so the only drama that is going to occur is from that one side exercising that power. And when one side has all the power and the other side zero, the power will get abused.
And that's why they are there, and that's what disturbs me. The only reason "reality TV" cameras are inside these places is because they know it's good television when someone is screaming in someone's face, someone is physically overpowering someone, shit's going down. And it's a "safe environment," six sheriffs in uniform (or even riot police which I saw them call in one time for no apparent reason other than a kid refused to leave his cell) aren't going to have a trouble beating down a 17 year old.
Who cares if it turns them into more hardened criminals for the future? Commercials are being sold, I'm sure the prison / county gets money from the network for the "privilege," everyone benefits.
Except the people the whole damn thing is actually supposed to benefit, the "wayward" kids themselves.
I haven't seen this show, but I remember the original Scared Straight from back in the 80's, and that seemed pretty effective. Basically they took troubled highschool kids to prisons, and let them see just how horrible it was, and that if they didn't straighten up that thats where they'd end up.
If the new program is as horrible as you describe, it's a true shame.
The worst part to me was the nearly ubiquitous references - by the guards - as to how all these kids were going to get raped if they really went to jail, how "everyone" wanted their ass "and was gonna get it."
Rape is a crime, in prison or not. Making threats as a prison guard about how someone is going to get raped in jail is basically a promise that they are going to be derelict in their duties and in fact are malevolently negligent, they "know" it's going to happen, and they won't do anything to stop it, they "know" it will happen. That's fucked up and I really can't believe it.
Ya sounds like those camps some Gay kids got thrown in by retarded parents.
I'm curious to watch this show, but foreal you're 1100% right.
This is not discipline, this is traumatizing people. Just the title itself speaks volumes. Sure they might get cooperation, but without understanding you build alot of resentment in the patient.
When they leave. what they leave with is, regret, resentment, and most likely this will resonate much more then any other lecon some retard boot camp trainer can give.
I've seen a few videos of children under the age of 18 being beaten brutally for mouthing off. It's really not fair, but this is an offspring of the insane humans born in the USA. I'm sorry but it's true. This hopefully does not exist anywhere else.
I've even heard of kids dying. The truth is this type of correctional facility being on TV is a good thing. Now the public can openly critise this and in turn more attention will be given to the brutality endured by these kids.
Too be honest, I think the root of the problem is in the societal mentality of a large proportion within america. This righteous way of thinking that you have to do whatever is needed to acheive you're goal. Even if it means doing the exact opposite of what is right.
I've watched the show many times, I personally love it. Most of the time are young gang members, some of them talk about how proud they are to be carrying guns around and stuff like that. They all joke about going into the prison at first, but then they are forced to understand that the path that they are heading down is going to lead them to prison at some point, and that the only way to avoid it is to straighten up. I don't think it's traumatizing to these kids, most of them understand what they are doing and why they are there, they think they're tough enough for the street life until they're forced to see past the rap songs and into reality.
I don't know if you've watched the entire show, but the prisoners don't just yell at them and talk about how they're going to get raped. They certainly do, at first, but after they sort of break them in, they start to share stories with them, they try to relate to the kids and try to convince them that crime will lead them to prison, and prison is no place that they want to be.
Now, if you feel like some teenager who is caught with weed doesn't belong in there, I'm with you on that. But that has more to do with American policy on marijuana than it does with the show or the program that these prisons run.
But please, watch the entire show and see how some of these kids really do change their lives after visiting the prisons, and most of the time its the kids who are in there for the most serious offenses.
Rape and crime in jail itself is pretty bad. Nobody will squeal in jail and since you cannot perform a preemtive arrest on everybody within a jail for future crimes which WILL be commited, it is pretty much guaranteed that any youth that goes to jail is going to leave with a size 10 hole. Aside from the mention of that brutal fact, the stuff you said is pretty bad, unless, of course, it is a voluntary program. Reforming people requires breaking them. Even then, this is pretty bad. There has to be, at the minimum, occaisonal positive reinforcement. This could also be a simulation program, in which case it is partially exaggerated, but only a little. People don't get chewed out for no reason, but strip searches based on body language and SWAT for even partially defiant inmates is common. If this is an involuntary program, I am dissapointed in the current state of the rights of minors.
There are police and prison guards who do this even outside of this reality tv show, and there are two outcomes, they won't try to do anything stupid again or they will try and fight it. Your mentioning brutality on a tv show, but where i live i've seen people in front of my house get beat down and sprayed and sometimes they didn't do anything but they were trouble makers in the past.
What you describe happens in real life, expect for the show they sometimes just juice it up a little, It depends where you grow up and what you experience in life. I have never been to jail but I know a lot of people that have, some of them doesn't mind going to jail again(for the x number of time) while the others actually try to change their life.
The part where you said that the 17 year old refused to leave his cell so 6 sheriffs came to take him out, there was a kid in my HS a few years back who was preaching about how the school did him wrong, and stood out side in the hallways refusing to go to class, then refusing to leave. The school called the cops, and in minutes 4 officers came and one of the officers speared the kid to the ground and another officer sprayed him afterward they cuffed him and threw him in the back of the squad car. The guy was only about 16 or so at the time. As I said it depends where you grow up, the OP could have grown up in a nice environment where you never see these kind of things and say that it is only for reality TV, but things like this happen in real life too.
So the OP wants to blame reality TV just because he has never witness stuff like this in real life.
The whole concept of the show sounds terrible. From your description, it sounds like the kids brought in there get out more fucked up than before. It certainly doesn't sound like resocialisation is their main (or any) goal. But! It brings viewership...
Also:
I don't know how many of you are familiar with just how many reality shows there are on television these days (I bet most of you are): zillions. Some of the are horrible, some of them are mindnumbingly dumb, most induce a braincell genocide in their viewers.
ive watched it with mixed feelings. but when i watch reality tv i mainly do it because i dont want to use my brain. some was a bit extreme other times i went like "shit this may could have happened to me back in the days i did stupid things".. so yes.. think twice before driving drunk or doing drugs.. other than that all that show does is showing how fucked up society is and how even more fucked up TV is.
reality tv is not equal to reality.. so..
edit: that like 12 year old kid who cried was a bit over the top. the stupid girls were funny. edit2: oh yeah and i illegaly streamed the show lol.
And you'll notice most of these kids initially going in there with a hard attitude, and quickly soften up. It's the harsh reality. Better that they get exposed to it early and have the chance to realize that's not the life they want to pursue, then to wait until your actually behind bars and there is no turning back. Most of you commenting with a weak stomach about it don't understand; certain kids with this mentality think their invincible. Only way to humble them is to introduce them to the grim reality. If that doesn't scare them from the lifestyle, nothing else will. It is what it is...
I'd like to see the ends before I completely denounce the means. When you've tried reasoning with them, giving them all of the attention and comfort they could ever want, and it still doesn't get it through their thick skulls that they are going to end up knee deep in the shitter with their bad behaviour, what's left?
Knew plenty of kids in high school who would simply not respond positively to reason or the attention they craved. What they needed was a good ass whipping to make them realize they're not the alpha-male specimen they think they are.
Why are you bashing their methods? If it keeps the kids out of prison then power to the program the kids aren't physically accosted or told anything untrue, prison isn't pretty it isn't easy and they need to see that.
That"15 year old skateboarder" had been smoking weed since 7th grade and his mother had no idea what to do with him, in fact before going into prison he'd never even considered stopping smoking even for a second and after the visit promised his mother to stop (though he probably won't follow through).
I've watched a couple episodes, it sort of varies really, there was this episode where the kids got massively threatened and yelled at constantly by the inmates. There was this lady screaming the entire 1 hour episode.
Then 2 weeks later the episode that aired was so different, the inmates talked a little tough, but softened up and it was pretty heartwarming, especially when one guy came out and talked about how he ended up in there after stealing like $40, getting raped in prison etc. (Some California episode or something)
Might be a little harsh, but some of those kids in there steal and assault people and stuff according to the show, and I guess they're already pretty close to being jailed as they can be. I doubt they'd just put regular misbehaving kids in there.
I'll catch more episodes, it's on Crime & Investigation channel on Singapore cable if anyone cares.
I remember my middle school principal getting into a lot of trouble for encouraging the all the kids and their parents to watch the 80s version. My mom had us turn it off five minutes in.
As for my take on it: it's a fascist's wet dream.
That aside, I would have to see the results before I completely condemn such practices. As the poster above me pointed out, some kids don't get it and need to be out-alpha-maled, as that's the only thing they seem to understand.
shit man, i remember the one in 99 on mtv. There was no fucking way I was gonna do something dumb enough to land in there after seeing that shit. I didn't wanna hold someone's pocket and be named bridgette
from what I remember, they aren't pulling in kids who got picked up for a bag of weed here and trespassing there. It's dumb shit kids who constantly do get in trouble and do terrible things despite having a decent enough environment at home, with parents who have tried lots of other methods
On September 08 2011 05:39 Hawk wrote: shit man, i remember the one in 99 on mtv. There was no fucking way I was gonna do something dumb enough to land in there after seeing that shit. I didn't wanna hold someone's pocket and be named bridgette http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4y61A4a080&feature=related
from what I remember, they aren't pulling in kids who got picked up for a bag of weed here and trespassing there. It's dumb shit kids who constantly do get in trouble and do terrible things despite having a decent enough environment at home, with parents who have tried lots of other methods
That... is fucking terrifying. I would hate to have that guy yelling in my face for a minute straight... And it looks like there's a whole row of them waiting to get their turn.
It's their parents that decided to send them there, I'm sure the parents are trying what's best for their children this is better than beating them or starving or even worse, just not caring.
EPT
