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On September 08 2011 05:05 QooQ wrote:
And you'll notice most of these kids initially going in there with a hard attitude, and quickly soften up. It's the harsh reality. Better that they get exposed to it early and have the chance to realize that's not the life they want to pursue, then to wait until your actually behind bars and there is no turning back. Most of you commenting with a weak stomach about it don't understand; certain kids with this mentality think their invincible. Only way to humble them is to introduce them to the grim reality. If that doesn't scare them from the lifestyle, nothing else will. It is what it is...
This is my view on it. Yeah it seems harsh but i honestly think after a trip there youll think twice about anything that might make you end up there.
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On September 08 2011 09:09 Jinsho wrote:
It's all acted for the camera. How are you so gullible? Good lord. Do you literally believe everything you see on television and read in the newspaper, media which are there to entertain, amuse, and scare you?
Those 14 year olds would have to be psychologically strong as well as good actors to not be affected by a big black dude screaming in their face and humiliating them in front of their classmates.
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On September 08 2011 09:09 Jinsho wrote:
It's all acted for the camera. How are you so gullible? Good lord. Do you literally believe everything you see on television and read in the newspaper, media which are there to entertain, amuse, and scare you?
This. Pretty much exactly what i was going to write when i read the OP... It seems too stupid to be true. Even for a "reality" show.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Is "randomly" picking the biggest, meanest-looking kid in the room, telling him repeatedly you'll "fuck him up" and to "get out of my face" while you are the one who got in his face, and then having your guard buddy forearm him from behind to "make him sit back down" really going to make him think something other than "I need to be even bigger and badder so people can't do this to me"?
There's a 0% chance of me ever ending up in these places, but thats what Im thinking just reading about it - seems pretty retarded. Honestly, it feels like this kind of retarded abuse of power would make organized crime seem pretty attractive, hell nobody gonna mess with you then -_-
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The show may be fake, I can't say as I haven't seen it, but I think the way we do jail/prison/corrections in this country is wrong. I can't think of a better way to say it other than we just do it wrong. The recent tragedy in Norway put a lot of focus on their penal system, and while I think exceptions should be made for people that murder 69 other people, their philosophy on rehabilitation of criminals is just plain better than ours.
I personally get no enjoyment from shows such as this, I don't like to see human beings in those conditions. Maybe I'm crazy, probably am, but I just don't think threatening teenagers with rape is the best way to go about changing their behavior.
I get the concept of being tough on crime, prison shouldn't be fun right? but aside from public executions how much tougher on crime can we get in this country? Maybe it would be a better idea to invest in these troubled teens while they are young instead of de-humanizing them.
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Eh, watched a few episodes, not too bad. Boo Hoo, the big man yelled at me. Okay, move on.
Sure, it's used for entertainment and I'm sure some of those kids don't really need to be there, but if that's the case, who really cares? It's an experience. If they don't REALLY need to be there, they know they don't.
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On September 08 2011 10:28 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +Is "randomly" picking the biggest, meanest-looking kid in the room, telling him repeatedly you'll "fuck him up" and to "get out of my face" while you are the one who got in his face, and then having your guard buddy forearm him from behind to "make him sit back down" really going to make him think something other than "I need to be even bigger and badder so people can't do this to me"?
There's a 0% chance of me ever ending up in these places, but thats what Im thinking just reading about it - seems pretty retarded. Honestly, it feels like this kind of retarded abuse of power would make organized crime seem pretty attractive, hell nobody gonna mess with you then -_-
Isn't that the big problem?
i need to be bigger then the biggest, you need to be the toughest kid on the block because that's how you survive in those schools, education there is fucked up in allot of ways.
instead of trying to give them more options to succeed and encourage them to take those, they try to scare them away of it
as for if this is helping or just making it worse, i think its doing more good then bad,
most of these kids are already on a bad road, and as i said they are just gonna get worse, they will try to get bigger and badder even without this show.
what they are showing is not that outrageous, they are showing them where they might land if they don't change, those jails are no joke, the guards wont threat you much better then the other prisoners would.
some might be successively scared away.
also i would like to add that society is becoming way to soft on children,
oh nooo some one is yelling at that child that might cause him mental trauma, oh nooo they are ganging up on this 15 year old boy who is actualy already pretty much a adult, just because he had a tiny little bit of drugs, he might start thinking its a bad thing! :S
as soon as they "grow up" (some people just don't grow up and are still dependant on their parents at age 30) they suddenly realize that reality is actualy a bitch..
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As a proud Tongan I can say that I will never be in this position.
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The thing is if the kids aren't fucking stupid then they know the inmates and cops won't do anything to them and then the whole thing is just a joke. You can stand there and yell back, close your eyes and pretend you are asleep, whatever the fuck you want because they can't touch you and nothing bad will ever happen. Just like stupid fear factor, how is that shit even scary? You are hooked up to the most ridiculous safety rigs in the world.
Also, just from personal experience dealing with yelling from adults when I was an adolescent and teen, I generally just sat there nodding my head and just ignoring the tons of bullshit coming out." In one ear, out the other" as the saying goes. Usually afterwords, I left the office or whatever just going "hey look all I have to deal with when I get in trouble is some stupid fucks yelling/preaching, nothing I haven't heard at home or outside my entire life". It's not even punishment, it's not going to set anyone straight 100% of the time, and it teaches kids to just work the system. Even when threatened with detention or grounding it's nothing because all you do is sit there bored and think of (probably bad shit to do to fill the time).
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Canada11519 Posts
I don't know how effective this would even be. I mean, the experience would be terrible, but for corrective change? I don't know, some kids when faced with over the top verbal abuse, can often go into brace-yourself-for-the-storm mode, and click, your rant is blah, blah, blah (when is this over?), and then later they can mock the experience with their friends. It's probably emotionally damaging (and on those grounds alone, I'd never support this), but their coping methods may exclude them getting the actual message.
Edit
Aw man, ninja'ed by SpoR who said it better.
On September 08 2011 20:40 InTheCloudss wrote:
also i would like to add that society is becoming way to soft on children,
oh nooo some one is yelling at that child that might cause him mental trauma, oh nooo they are ganging up on this 15 year old boy who is actualy already pretty much a adult, just because he had a tiny little bit of drugs, he might start thinking its a bad thing! :S
as soon as they "grow up" (some people just don't grow up and are still dependant on their parents at age 30) they suddenly realize that reality is actualy a bitch..
I could maybe agree with the bolded part, but this is not the way to do it. Furthermore, quite contrary to getting soft on children, there's quite a few children growing up suffering from child abuse (and I would imagine, they would be much more impervious to this sort of tactic- random stranger or your parent? Which will be more damaging?) as well as far more children getting stuck in custody battles and fears of kidnapping because of said custody battles. If society is softer on children, it's become just as hard as well. Or perhaps it was always hard, I have no idea.
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On September 09 2011 10:50 Falling wrote:
I could maybe agree with the bolded part, but this is not the way to do it. Furthermore, quite contrary to getting soft on children, there's quite a few children growing up suffering from child abuse (and I would imagine, they would be much more impervious to this sort of tactic- random stranger or your parent? Which will be more damaging?) as well as far more children getting stuck in custody battles and fears of kidnapping because of said custody battles. If society is softer on children, it's become just as hard as well. Or perhaps it was always hard, I have no idea.
yes there are cases of things like that happening but i that's not what i meant, im talking about the large part of the parents who spoil their children to death and cry out of outrage when a child gets punished by anything else then a "timeout"
They let them do whatever they want and brush it off whit, he is just a child (the age of remaining a child is rising too :S)
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Horror campains has always seemed very wrong to me, after I remember getting shown these horrifing pictures of decayed teeth at the dentist office to scare me into brushing em. Then again im totally fucked up, so everything I think might actually be wrong. So why not cut to the core, why not just put children into prison for a day, to really traumatize them and see if that works, no cameras and no supervision and really brake them?
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On September 08 2011 05:57 Dacendoran wrote:
It's their parents that decided to send them there, I'm sure the parents are trying what's best for their children this is better than beating them or starving or even worse, just not caring.
Quarter of an once weed?...
I hate people who do bought drugs because it funds the horrors in mexico etc. but christ who hasn't handled a quarter once of any drug?
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Many times parents will send their kids to these types of programs becuase they have tried so many other tactics taht didnt work. If it gets the kids to stop then I say go for it. Plus they arent beating on them or anything... boo hoo if the kid walks out feeling bad for doing drugs. He/she probably should have felt bad a long time ago for it, reality sucks when it hits you all at one time and with a fierce attitude.
I feel sorry that it took these extreme measures to reach the kids, not that they got their feelings hurt. Plus half of it is probably staged anyways like every other reality show out there.
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On September 09 2011 10:40 SpoR wrote:
The thing is if the kids aren't fucking stupid then they know the inmates and cops won't do anything to them and then the whole thing is just a joke. You can stand there and yell back, close your eyes and pretend you are asleep, whatever the fuck you want because they can't touch you and nothing bad will ever happen. Just like stupid fear factor, how is that shit even scary? You are hooked up to the most ridiculous safety rigs in the world.
Also, just from personal experience dealing with yelling from adults when I was an adolescent and teen, I generally just sat there nodding my head and just ignoring the tons of bullshit coming out." In one ear, out the other" as the saying goes. Usually afterwords, I left the office or whatever just going "hey look all I have to deal with when I get in trouble is some stupid fucks yelling/preaching, nothing I haven't heard at home or outside my entire life". It's not even punishment, it's not going to set anyone straight 100% of the time, and it teaches kids to just work the system. Even when threatened with detention or grounding it's nothing because all you do is sit there bored and think of (probably bad shit to do to fill the time).
you must be Einstein. This show isn't reality TV, considering it was around in fucking 1978. That shit isn't fake. Act up and smile in their faces and get your teeth knocked down your fucking throat. Yell back and try to act big and bad. "They can't touch you" - are you a dunce? These are guys in prison for life. I'm sure beating the smirk off of some kid's face is going to make them think twice.
/sarcasm
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Hey
Completely agree with about everything your say and the sentiment of it
Never seen this show in particular but it does remind me of "boothcamp" of wich i seen a part once and wich was equally terrible
I dont know what would be a good way to try get kids "do the right things" but the method in this serie, wich seem widespread in the usa, also amongst adults is obviously not going to work I
its so awkward to see the staff actually enjoying humiliating the prisoners
Annyway dont know what else to say: tv in general is of extreme low quality in europe and reality tv is definatly to blame for that partially, can imagine it only be worse in the usa
Luckily we have internet now and i barely watch tv annymore, never actually beside the occasional news show/documentary/sitcom on the background while sitting behind pc
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On September 08 2011 04:11 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Who cares if it turns them into more hardened criminals for the future? Commercials are being sold, I'm sure the prison / county gets money from the network for the "privilege," everyone benefits.
Except the people the whole damn thing is actually supposed to benefit, the "wayward" kids themselves.
Thats just it, they don't want to keep them out of prison. The prison system is an industry like any other. Its subject to the economy, its traded on wall street. The prison system profits from "growth" just like any other business only the growth is more citizens incarcerated for ridiculous laws being broken. The more people locked up, the more money they make. Thats why they keep making new laws instead of using technology/common sense to prevent the law being broken in the first place.
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They made us watch this in my Law and Society class, was stupid tbh, sure fear can be a good controlling factor, but informational? No not "everyone" gets raped.
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On September 08 2011 06:46 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 04:24 DeepElemBlues wrote:
The worst part to me was the nearly ubiquitous references - by the guards - as to how all these kids were going to get raped if they really went to jail, how "everyone" wanted their ass "and was gonna get it."
Rape is a crime, in prison or not. Making threats as a prison guard about how someone is going to get raped in jail is basically a promise that they are going to be derelict in their duties and in fact are malevolently negligent, they "know" it's going to happen, and they won't do anything to stop it, they "know" it will happen. That's fucked up and I really can't believe it. Yes... and no. Even if the guards do attempt to prevent it, it'll happen regardless. These aren't the actual guards letting it happen, nor are they saying they openly will let it happen. Rather, they're merely reinforcing the fact that prison rape is indeed very common. While maybe it's sending a poor message on how prison facilities are run, I think it could still be a very valuable method of deterring existing potential criminals. Haven't watched the show though, and I do think you have a valid point. Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:40 ilj.psa wrote:On September 08 2011 05:57 ahx wrote:
The really stupid part about this show is they get kids who have done such trivial "crimes" I think one kid I saw on there was in trouble cause he was getting into some fights at school? which was discovered was just pent up anger from his mom dying...which is just sad.. bringing this kid to a jail and yelling at him wasn't the right way to go about dealing with his situation, but hey, that's television. The point is that the kid was choosing a wrong path for his life. Of course they are trivial 'crimes', how do you think it all starts? It's probably the extent of how trivial... to me this sounds like it's definitely the wrong path. If anything, counseling or a psychiatrist to help him cope better emotionally would be far more ideal, at least in my opinion.
Umm, the guards actively participate in allowing prison rape to happen. it controls the inmate population.
They also stick one person from a different ethnicity or race in a group thats completely homogenously another ethnicity or race, to provoke race wars.
The idea is, keep the inmates fighting each other, and we never have to worry about them uniting against us.
You should realize whats going on in prisons in actuality.
Or did the photos of the abuses at Abu Ghrab not make it clear? Or did the Stanford Experiment with inmates and prison guards being all students, where eithical and moral atrocities occured within 7 days, Not make it clear?
On September 10 2011 01:04 TRod wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 04:11 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Who cares if it turns them into more hardened criminals for the future? Commercials are being sold, I'm sure the prison / county gets money from the network for the "privilege," everyone benefits.
Except the people the whole damn thing is actually supposed to benefit, the "wayward" kids themselves. Thats just it, they don't want to keep them out of prison. The prison system is an industry like any other. Its subject to the economy, its traded on wall street. The prison system profits from "growth" just like any other business only the growth is more citizens incarcerated for ridiculous laws being broken. The more people locked up, the more money they make. Thats why they keep making new laws instead of using technology/common sense to prevent the law being broken in the first place.
yep. Inmates are dollar signs. they are cash cows. having inmates increases the amount of taxpayer money you get. Why do you think prison sentences are getting longer and longer in america, with the tacking on of more and more "counts" of crimes to ensure that prisoners get as long as possible? America is capitalist to the extreme. Look at euro countries or even Canada, they have far lower crime rates and far lower prison sentences.
"The more laws you make, the more criminals there will be" Lao Tzu.
Criminals also can't change anything, because once you're a convicted felon, you no longer have the right to vote. Which means you can't change the system that abused you or that you think is wrong. Get enough of your population convicted felons, and now there is no democracy, because the majority of people cannot tell the govt what to do anymore. its just another method of Tyranny or Dictatorship. And then, excessively propaganda against "Criminals" to keep "non-convicts" scared of the bogeyman that is criminals, and thus, just liike how americans gave up al their rights to be safe from terrorists, they will keep giving up their rights, with the passing of more and more laws that criminalize everything, to be safe from criminals, who they will fear so much they will willingly agree to have them put away for 20+ years. And then in actuality this time frame is DESIRABLE for the institutions that run the prisons, because they get MORE taxpayer money.
Hint: All prisons are privately run institutions. Just like the Federal Reserve is a privately run institution and not connected to the govt at all. Just like the IRS is too.
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Dunno why would it be fake, I mean it can be you can say that to every single reality show on tv. Apparently there are so few kids getting into fights/ disrispecting authority / doing minor crimes,nowadays , that the producers are forced to pay actors to play them. (Sarcasm)
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EPT
