EPTRossi's energy catalyzer - Page 25
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On December 06 2011 03:58 Traeon wrote: I'm a human being that gets offended when I see someone that has obviously not bothered to properly look into this spouting venom. Skepticism is appropriate and healthy in right amount, but as I said, it does not get a free pass. Even the skeptic must make some effort to look into the matter before criticizing. It is evident from the first paragraph of his post that Rannasha automatically considers everything related to the matter as untrustworthy and dubious. That is not healthy skepticism. That is close-mindedness. I see a long post on page 24 that deals with some of the major stuff that looks weird in those PDF's you linked. You didn't even try to argue the points, you just sidestepped it calling Rannasha a smear journalist when most people in this thread seem to think that he is right on the money when it comes to this. | ||
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Traeon
Austria366 Posts
On December 06 2011 04:10 karpo wrote: I see a long post on page 24 that deals with some of the major stuff that looks weird in those PDF's you linked. You didn't even try to argue the points, you just sidestepped it calling Rannasha a smear journalist when most people in this thread seem to think that he is right on the money when it comes to this. Okay: the points were that details about Rossi's tech are unknown. Nobody is contesting that. It doesn't mean it's a scam, it only makes sense from a business perspective. Bloom Box took the same approach and details are kept secret while it's being commercialized. The rest of the post is mostly smearing and trying to pain anyone and everyone involved in a bad light. Some of it is probably unintentional due to not being being well informed. For example the part where he says that Rossi and Piantelli devices are very different is clearly wrong. They're both based on the same studies and use the same approach, though exact details for both are unknown for aforementioned reasons. So evidently we have very different points of view as to what constitutes an intelligent post and what doesn't. | ||
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HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
Rossi is doing a huge publicity stunt, apparently to get funding. Here's what we don't know: What Rossi is actually doing. Realization: We don't know where the money is actually going. Occam's Razor applicable: It sounds too good to be true, sounds very much like a scam, probably is a scam. And then there's you, Traeon. You claim opposite to this that there's no reason to believe it is a scam, and in the same breath claim that there is evidence for it not being a scam. When the sources you referenced are picked apart as they do not disprove that this might well still be a scam (because they present nothing credible what so ever) you... ask the critiquer to look harder? As has been pointed out to you, it's up to you to present the credible evidence. At the time of writing there really is nothing pointing towards this being real more than it being a scam. As a last little disclaimer I'm not claiming that it is a scam nor that I am able to prove such a thing, I only claim that it is somewhat more likely than the alternative - and nothing presented has proved Rossi's claims to be true. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
Nothing can be proven either way right now. Here's what I don't know: How it's a 'scam' when he doesn't accept money until customer satisfied with product. Even if his 'sale' was fake, he hasn't gotten money from anyone else anyway. Realization: Everyone's arguing for nothing more than to elongate their epeens. You can't prove they're wrong, they can't prove they're right, yet you guys are trying anyway. Is it really that hard to not fight someone who has a different opinion than you? It'd be nice if the discussion was kept to information regarding the actual thing the topic is about, it's annoying sifting through posts to find nobody is contributing anything. :/ | ||
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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
On December 06 2011 04:01 koreasilver wrote: Again, if you don't present a peer-reviewed paper that shows that this thing is actual real, then you don't have any evidence. You're the only one that doesn't seem to understand how things are scrutinized and verified. The "information" you're providing is worth as much as shit on a sidewalk as far as anyone is concerned because it is not peer-reviewed. Its value is worth as much as a random defunct geocities page. Here is how it works: http://web.archive.org/web/20090831184838/http://geocities.com/koneheadx/mullerplategenerator.html | ||
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Rannasha
Netherlands2398 Posts
On December 06 2011 04:38 Traeon wrote: The rest of the post is mostly smearing and trying to pain anyone and everyone involved in a bad light. Some of it is probably unintentional due to not being being well informed. For example the part where he says that Rossi and Piantelli devices are very different is clearly wrong. They're both based on the same studies and use the same approach, though exact details for both are unknown for aforementioned reasons. Oh, but they are different. The second presentation in the set of three from one of your earlier posts contains a comparison between the devices of Rossi and Paintelli. And while they both use the same ingredients, they have completely opposite effects in some areas. In one of the devices all the hydrogen was used up, in the other nothing was used up. If they would use the same reaction, then you'd expect that whether or not an input product is used up is the same for both. The rate of consumption of the fuel and the energy output may vary slightly due to different implementations, but there wouldn't be polar opposites like these. There were more differences between the properties of the devices and the reaction that they cause, but I don't have the presentation open right now to give examples, but you know where to find them :-) edit: @InvaliD: A GeoCities link via the Web Archive with a few pictures and very little text is hardly a peer reviewed paper. Also, the device depicted there has nothing to do with the Rossi device. The device in the pictures uses magnets to do... something (again, there's no real text saying what I'm supposed to be looking at). The Rossi device allegedly turns nickel, hydrogen and Ingredient X into energy and other products, without involving magnets at all. | ||
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:37 ThaZenith wrote: Here's what I know: Nothing can be proven either way right now. Here's what I don't know: How it's a 'scam' when he doesn't accept money until customer satisfied with product. Even if his 'sale' was fake, he hasn't gotten money from anyone else anyway. Realization: Everyone's arguing for nothing more than to elongate their epeens. You can't prove they're wrong, they can't prove they're right, yet you guys are trying anyway. Is it really that hard to not fight someone who has a different opinion than you? It'd be nice if the discussion was kept to information regarding the actual thing the topic is about, it's annoying sifting through posts to find nobody is contributing anything. :/ you, good sir, are a wise man. neither side can be proven to be right, yet. There is somethings scumish about it, but then again some indications that this is actually real. I lean towards fake, but that doesn't mean, one can't lean towards the other side. | ||
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dizzy101
Netherlands2066 Posts
On December 06 2011 04:38 Traeon wrote:<stuff> I'm really puzzled as to why you would believe these outrageous claims appearing in extremely suspect publications. What's in it for you? Do you gain anything from propagating these weird conspiracy-like theories? EVERY SINGLE aspect of this story SCREAMS scam, wack-job, nut-case, hoax. | ||
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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:47 Rannasha wrote: edit: @InvaliD: A GeoCities link via the Web Archive with a few pictures and very little text is hardly a peer reviewed paper. Also, the device depicted there has nothing to do with the Rossi device. The device in the pictures uses magnets to do... something (again, there's no real text saying what I'm supposed to be looking at). The Rossi device allegedly turns nickel, hydrogen and Ingredient X into energy and other products, without involving magnets at all. You missed my attempt at sarcastic commentary on the "evidence" offered so far in the thread. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Mr. Black
United States470 Posts
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Traeon
Austria366 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:57 dizzy101 wrote: I'm really puzzled as to why you would believe these outrageous claims appearing in extremely suspect publications. What's in it for you? Do you gain anything from propagating these weird conspiracy-like theories? EVERY SINGLE aspect of this story SCREAMS scam, wack-job, nut-case, hoax. I assume you are referring to LENR papers in general? I would recommend watching this from 7:11 onward http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4955212n | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On December 06 2011 03:58 Traeon wrote: I'm a human being that gets offended when I see someone that has obviously not bothered to properly look into this spouting venom. Skepticism is appropriate and healthy in right amount, but as I said, it does not get a free pass. Even the skeptic must make some effort to look into the matter before criticizing. It is evident from the first paragraph of his post that Rannasha automatically considers everything related to the matter as untrustworthy and dubious. That is not healthy skepticism. That is close-mindedness. except if the information existed to explain to him why he is wrong, you could do that rather than being a dick D: your stand point makes no sense. | ||
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Rannasha
Netherlands2398 Posts
On December 06 2011 09:01 InvalidID wrote: You missed my attempt at sarcastic commentary on the "evidence" offered so far in the thread. Doh, I had shut down my sarcasm detector at the time (it's hard to tell when people are serious in these kinds of discussions, unfortunately). | ||
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ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
http://blog.thephoenix.com/BLOGS/talkingpolitics/archive/2011/12/08/romney-hot-for-cold-fusion.aspx You can listen to the full audio of the interview here. The cold fusion discussion is around the 3:30 mark. The author speculates upon a possible connection between Romney and the recent visit by Rossi to the state of Massachusetts, at the behest of Bruce Tarr, senate state minority leader. More on that story here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45557227/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/idea-cold-fusion-plant-massachusetts-explored/#.TuDV3lawVqK Some serious discussion about LENR going on behind the scenes in Washington? | ||
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ryanAnger
United States838 Posts
On December 10 2011 08:16 ElMeanYo wrote: There is a blog post in the Boston Phoenix today pointing out a curious mention of cold fusion by Mitt Romney in a 'talking points' interview that was done earlier this week. He seems to bring it up 'out of the blue'. See link below: http://blog.thephoenix.com/BLOGS/talkingpolitics/archive/2011/12/08/romney-hot-for-cold-fusion.aspx You can listen to the full audio of the interview here. The cold fusion discussion is around the 3:30 mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlmMtdigxLc The author speculates upon a possible connection between Romney and the recent visit by Rossi to the state of Massachusetts, at the behest of Bruce Tarr, senate state minority leader. More on that story here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45557227/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/idea-cold-fusion-plant-massachusetts-explored/#.TuDV3lawVqK Some serious discussion about LENR going on behind the scenes in Washington? It's this kind of information that goes under the radar. There are a lot of things being implicated by credible sources that point toward this whole thing being real. One of the biggest things to keep in mind is that if this IS real, then it means safe, free energy. There are lots of people out there who depend on oil to pay their bills, and a lot of them are the people in power. It wouldn't be surprising to see this just disappear because he never gets a patent. With that said, I'm healthily skeptical, but I'm also an optimist. | ||
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Speece
United States50 Posts
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
On December 10 2011 16:22 Speece wrote: Why does this stupid thread keep coming back? Rannasha has already explained why this is most likely a scam. Theres so little evidence that this thing actually works that you might as well say it runs on magic. If you don't like this thread, no one is forcing you to read it. Go rain on someone else's parade. | ||
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