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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On January 14 2012 02:14 intrigue wrote: why isn't there more media buzz about this? wouldn't this be the holy grail of investments...? Probably because it's not really feasible. The few actual knowledgeable physics educated people in this thread has shot this down and it's mostly quotes from blogs and such atm. | ||
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phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
there is maybe something, that does something we dont know, but it produces energy, and maybe its cheaper than oil, but we cant show it to you ! | ||
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On January 14 2012 02:14 intrigue wrote: why isn't there more media buzz about this? wouldn't this be the holy grail of investments...? On July 27 2011 10:53 caradoc wrote: Its a scam-- they don't even reveal the inside of the machine, their results have been rejected from scientific journals, and observers are not allowed to bring in anything to the demonstrations that would pick up gamma radiation/alpha particles/neutron emissions, etc, which would prove that fusion is occurring. Its like the endless promises of perpetual motion machines in the early 20th century. ![[image loading]](http://www.greenchameleon.com/uploads/snake_oil.jpg) It's something being sold that hides in the suggestion or the connotation of scientific credibility. Snake oil looks ridiculous nowadays but it and things like it sold well because most people only have a peripheral or pop-cultural awareness of the relevant science. That and people want to believe. In more pioneering days, sickness was the beast that lurked at the end of life-- but could ambush able bodied men at any time and make them a burden on their family, and destroy futures-- it was the thing we all feared. The working body was the single absolutely necessary thing that kept you and your family alive, moved society forward, let you live life. Sickness/illhealth was the biggest threat to all those things and was to be feared-- snake oils and cure-alls referenced that fear and provided a solution to them, so people suspended some of their disbelief because the potential payoff was so great. Likewise with unlimited energy and the modern world. That this thing tricks people that should know better is sad, but understandable. | ||
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Crazyeyes
Canada1342 Posts
If snake oil was free until it cured you of rheumatism, would it still be a scam? Either way, when I first read this thread, I thought that by now this would definitely be finished. Either it would be debunked for sure or the world would be going crazy at this apparent scientific breakthrough. What the hell's taking so long? Is he waiting on a patent? Why doesn't he have it yet? -.- | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
On January 14 2012 02:14 intrigue wrote: why isn't there more media buzz about this? wouldn't this be the holy grail of investments...? The mainstream media has been reluctant to touch this because of the cold fusion debacle back in 89. Most of them have been waiting to see if it pans out. Recent advancements are bringing this new technology to simmering under the horizon. Now that NASA has come out I suspect it will pick up steam again. There has been some recent mainstream coverage. I give to you the following links: Forbes Wired Examiner Discovery International Business Times FOX News The Boston Phoenix MSNBC The Boston Globe Columbia Tribune Courier Press Oil Price Yahoo News NC Register Falls Church News Press | ||
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tnud
Sweden2233 Posts
On January 14 2012 02:45 ElMeanYo wrote: The mainstream media has been reluctant to touch this because of the cold fusion debacle back in 89. Most of them have been waiting to see if it pans out. Recent advancements are bringing this new technology to simmering under the horizon. Now that NASA has come out I suspect it will pick up steam again. There has been some recent mainstream coverage. I give to you the following links: + Show Spoiler + It's still highly suspect "technology" (if it even is anything at all). The major concern and the main reason people won't report on this is because he refuses proper scientists to confirm his discoveries in a truly scientific way. No random blogs on the internet doesn't count. I'm agreeing with ElMeanYo points and just adding on btw EDIT: Except I'm very pessimistic that is. | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
On January 14 2012 02:43 Crazyeyes wrote: Except the difference is that, afaik, he promises not to take any money until people are completely satisfied that they got what they paid for. If snake oil was free until it cured you of rheumatism, would it still be a scam? Either way, when I first read this thread, I thought that by now this would definitely be finished. Either it would be debunked for sure or the world would be going crazy at this apparent scientific breakthrough. What the hell's taking so long? Is he waiting on a patent? Why doesn't he have it yet? -.- He is awaiting his US patent, and already has one in Italy. However, the US patent office summarily rejects any patents to do with cold fusion, even though it is suspected that LENR is not cold fusion. Without patent protection he is understandably reluctant to reveal his secret. There is a long and sordid history behind cold fusion... you can start with the wikipedia page linked below if you are interested. Wiki Cold Fusion Most following the story see Rossi's strategy as to mass produce these devices and slip them under the radar as 'water boilers' or something similar. Once the devices are out in people's hands there won't be any doubt about whether they work or not. | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
On January 14 2012 02:32 caradoc wrote: Likewise with unlimited energy and the modern world. That this thing tricks people that should know better is sad, but understandable. I heard that the Wright Brothers invented a way so people could fly too. Insane right? People who believe that are so gullible. Well sarcasm aside... your post is very uninformed. There is no doubt that LENR exists... it has been reproduced by dozens of scientists and now NASA has come out and confirmed it. I would give you links to proof of this but I suspect you would never read them. This thread is mostly about the discussion of whether Rossi has figured out how to reliably contain and control the effect. On that question the jury is still out in my mind, but I am cautiously optimistic. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
On January 14 2012 02:32 caradoc wrote: It's something being sold that hides in the suggestion or the connotation of scientific credibility. Snake oil looks ridiculous nowadays but it and things like it sold well because most people only have a peripheral or pop-cultural awareness of the relevant science. That and people want to believe. In more pioneering days, sickness was the beast that lurked at the end of life-- but could ambush able bodied men at any time and make them a burden on their family, and destroy futures-- it was the thing we all feared. The working body was the single absolutely necessary thing that kept you and your family alive, moved society forward, let you live life. Sickness/illhealth was the biggest threat to all those things and was to be feared-- snake oils and cure-alls referenced that fear and provided a solution to them, so people suspended some of their disbelief because the potential payoff was so great. Likewise with unlimited energy and the modern world. That this thing tricks people that should know better is sad, but understandable. Somehow I get the impression you don't understand what a scam is. And nice job quoting yourself, made me smile. "Oh, you had a question? Well, just let me quote what this smart guy had to say earlier. He's always right." | ||
intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
anyhow, thanks for your posts in this thread elmeanyo. have you taken steps to invest in this stuff yet? i'm so fucking drawn to it, and i really wish i knew anything about investing or how to properly research the companies he's working with. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
On January 14 2012 03:02 intrigue wrote: yeah, part of what drives me nuts about this is that he's being so absurdly sketchy about entire thing to the point that it's start to look like he's dead serious. i feel like i'm playing mafia or something... anyhow, thanks for your posts in this thread elmeanyo. have you taken steps to invest in this stuff yet? i'm so fucking drawn to it, and i really wish i knew anything about investing or how to properly research the companies he's working with. You can't invest, as he isn't accepting money until it's proven and for sale. He contracted a parts manufacturing company a little while ago to create stuff like valves that he needs or something, but I don't think that's a very significant involvement. Other than that he's working on his own, using money he got from an earlier company he formed with a few other people. | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
On January 14 2012 03:02 intrigue wrote: yeah, part of what drives me nuts about this is that he's being so absurdly sketchy about entire thing to the point that it's start to look like he's dead serious. i feel like i'm playing mafia or something... anyhow, thanks for your posts in this thread elmeanyo. have you taken steps to invest in this stuff yet? i'm so fucking drawn to it, and i really wish i knew anything about investing or how to properly research the companies he's working with. You are welcome. I have been following it quite closely when I first saw this thread back in October (thanks Traeon). Skeptical at first... now that I know alot more about LENR it's obvious that there is something there on the cutting edge of science that we don't quite understand yet. My mind is not made up about Rossi... he is a quirky character with a colorful past. But there is alot of circumstantial evidence that his device works and respected people in the field were on hand during his demonstrations last year. He might just be crazy enough to have pulled this off. There is a fine line between insanity and genius. As for companies he is working with... earlier in this thread I posted about National Instruments... a major manufacturer of instrumentation here in the US who has confirmed their relationship with Rossi. You can see that post here. It's a positive sign if a corp as large as NI is confirming their partnership with him. In this link below from the NI website Rossi is referred to as Leonardo Corp... his company name: http://digital.ni.com/worldwide/bwcontent.nsf/websearch/2c6b449a3f0f8f3a862579480060a07f | ||
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Traeon
Austria366 Posts
Skeptical at first... now that I know alot more about LENR it's obvious that there is something there on the cutting edge of science that we don't quite understand yet. Yup. Regardless of what happens with Rossi there is something there that is real and promising, that's why for example NASA or SPAWAR are paying attention. If Rossi somehow managed to figure out how to control the reaction then all the better - but I'm sure that it is only a matter of time until someone else will reach a similar level of control to that what Rossi has claimed - if it hasn't already happened. | ||
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Ender985
Spain910 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
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woody60707
United States1863 Posts
Right in the news report it says the Army has an order from him to make HMMWVs that run on water and he is going to speak to Congress about this. Hell at least the HHO power is being showen live to people in the media in the open, Why can't Rossi's do the same thing with his e-cat? | ||
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Hypertension
United States802 Posts
On January 14 2012 03:02 intrigue wrote: yeah, part of what drives me nuts about this is that he's being so absurdly sketchy about entire thing to the point that it's start to look like he's dead serious. i feel like i'm playing mafia or something... anyhow, thanks for your posts in this thread elmeanyo. have you taken steps to invest in this stuff yet? i'm so fucking drawn to it, and i really wish i knew anything about investing or how to properly research the companies he's working with. Intrigue, oh no. Read the links posted by ElMeanYo Forbes "The central problem that makes the E-Cat so hard for people such as myself to believe in is that it would have to operate contrary to known physics." Wired - "Cold fusion, otherwise known as "low energy nuclear reaction" (LENR) technology has yet to gain any scientific respectability." "So long as he(Rossi) has paying customers he is happy for the rest of the world to dismiss the technology as not worth investigating." Examiner "Add to this the fact that one of the key figures in this story is a man named Andrea Rossi who is, to put it mildly, a very colorful character (think P.T. Barnum). " Discovery "Ethan followed up with a second post the next day, co-authored with Brookhaven National Lab's Peter Thieberger, explaining in careful detail the specific physics of why Rossi's claims of cold fusion are highly suspect. Go read that, and if you still want to invest in Rossi's technology -- well, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in buying, too." This is a scam, pure and simple. Just stay away. | ||
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Zren89
United States131 Posts
On July 27 2011 04:24 SirKibbleX wrote: Anyone who believes this should go ahead and invest with them. If they're for real, this will change the world. But you know what they say... A fool and his money are easily parted. To long for that which comes not. To lie a-bed and sleep not. To serve well and please not. To have a horse that goes not. To have a man obeys not. To lie in jail and hope not. To be sick and recover not. To lose one's way and know not. To wait at door and enter not, and to have a friend we trust not: are ten such spites as hell hath not. ~John Florio | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On January 14 2012 04:24 Zren89 wrote: To long for that which comes not. To lie a-bed and sleep not. To serve well and please not. To have a horse that goes not. To have a man obeys not. To lie in jail and hope not. To be sick and recover not. To lose one's way and know not. To wait at door and enter not, and to have a friend we trust not: are ten such spites as hell hath not. ~John Florio This actually makes more sense than any of the "scientific" arguments on why rossi's version works  | ||
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woody60707
United States1863 Posts
If I can find all these news stories on water powered cars, why can't he just show off his E-cat to NBC news? Or anyone. I did find this that was leading in to the big Oct 28 2011 date that will prove this work. http://pesn.com/2011/10/28/9501940_1_MW_E-Cat_Test_Successful/ Oh crap it works! Well that it folks, we can all go home now. But are we sure this is believable. Attendance at this test was limited for several reasons. First, the customer does not wish to be known at this time, nor to have its test engineers/scientists identified. I did not inadvertently discover the customer's identify, nor did I try to find out. I gave that group their space and did not probe. Second, the device is a nuclear device, and the regulations for a public demonstration are extremely stringent; so by making the event private, and only bringing one or two at a time to see it was a way to get around the safety requirements. If you can't trust the hearsay of anonymous people, who can you trust honestly? And remember kids, you too can make completely unregulated nuclear devices in your own basement. But only if you just show it off to your friends and sell it to private people. - It's Italy, so this part might actually be true.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Rossi_(entrepreneur) Oh so his been jailed before for illegal toxic dumping and fraud. This isn't his first time in the making cheap energy. All those other times it's been proven his inventions didn't work. This guy doesn't even have a Doctorate in anything. Why would anyone believe him? I guess he learned this from his past mistakes you can't be discredited if you don't show what in the box. But that doesn't mean you should give him credit. | ||
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