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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! |
On July 24 2011 00:08 TeWy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 23:53 fidelity wrote:
The scary thing is a lot of people agree with his opinions, even though they would never resort to violence. All over europe people with the same opinions is now sitting in the parliaments... O wait, is it now forbidden to be anti-massive immigration since a lunatic who happened to be anti-immigration shot people at a political meeting ? You can't deny the link between massive immigration, islamic terrorism/fundamentalism and the rise of the extreme far-right across Europe. It's not the nationalists who are in power in Europe so they're not responsible of this mess.
The timing is off. For the last 5 to 10 years, the migration balance is on average 70K to 100K persons (says the INSEE), with a 1:2 ration between departures and new arrivals. It may seem a huge number, but it is actually way smaller than the immigration of the seventies. The rise of the extreme-right in France is actually posterior to the immigration peak, and starts with the economical downturn of the eighties (ironically, they were used as tools by the Socialist Party to weaken the right) and specially, and gains momentum thanks to the legitimacy crisis of the institutionalized parties of the nineties.
Even if France has a longstanding tradition of anti-arab sentiment, dating back to the the algerian independence war, it only become prevalent in the far-right politics during the nineties thanks to the "culture shock" (choc des cultures) hypothesis. It took then the form of anti-muslim speeches. Culturalism become then the new avatar of racism (we went from "races don't mix" to "cultures don't mix"). This phenomenon was only strengthened by the 9/11 attacks and the designation of muslims as the biggest danger to our civilization since communism. The far-right learnt to surf over this fears, even if the only terrorism acts we had to suffer was Carlos and a bunch of veiled women (lol).
Immigration is just the lazy-men explanation for today's problems.
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His reasoning already seems rather clear, it's gonna be hard to twist this into something you can blame on gaming...
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I'm sorry, maybe the OP misstyped, is the victim toll on the island really 80 people? That is beyond imagination. Maybe it's a typo or smth?
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Look page 6 of this thread.
Please don't derail it even further.
Esp. what I have seen of the norwegian media was really impressive, not even mentioning this gaming-stuff, since it just does not matter here.
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Fuck sickos like him, and I hope all the families recover.
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Apparently this local girl got killed.
Didn't know her personally, but been at a couple parties with her.
Sad day 
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On July 24 2011 00:48 minus_human wrote:
I'm sorry, maybe the OP misstyped, is the victim toll on the island really 80 people? That is beyond imagination. Maybe it's a typo or smth?
85 by now.
Just read through a little of the thread or f.x. check the wikipedia-page.
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On July 24 2011 00:48 minus_human wrote:
I'm sorry, maybe the OP misstyped, is the victim toll on the island really 80 people? That is beyond imagination. Maybe it's a typo or smth?
No, it is 85 now. Not a typo.
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On July 24 2011 00:48 minus_human wrote:
I'm sorry, maybe the OP misstyped, is the victim toll on the island really 80 people? That is beyond imagination. Maybe it's a typo or smth?
On the island 85 are confirmed dead. In the city 7 are confirmed dead. Yep.
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On July 24 2011 00:45 FLu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:33 mdma-_- wrote:On July 24 2011 00:29 VanGarde wrote:On July 24 2011 00:18 DannyJ wrote:On July 24 2011 00:16 DoXa wrote:On July 24 2011 00:08 DeepElemBlues wrote:Why should we kill people that kill people, to show people that killing is wrong? Mostly to show people that if you do something horrible the government can and will end your life. It doesn't really stop anyone but it makes the public feel better and some people just don't deserve to live. this might work on some communities, but certainly not in todays europe Yeah in todays Europe they give the guy the VIP suite. Such heroes. No but todays Europe has a legal system that is not driven by revenge but by protecting society. Most of us are very attentive to the difference between wanting someone dead, and actually murdering them. And most are not comfortable with taking part in collective murder of a person no matter what he did. Although on the larger scale the issue of the death penalty eventually comes down to for me atleast the problem of people being convicted innocently. I rather pay to have the worst criminals in history locked up for all eternity than to lower myself to a murderer myself or to live in a society where revenge drives justice. death penalty is even more expensive than lifelong prison. according to a spiegel article (big german magazine) one execution in the US costs about 300 million Dollars. I don't think it costs THAT much. From Amnesty InternationalRecent Cost Studies A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000). (December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit) In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment. (2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research) In Maryland death penalty cases cost 3 times more than non-death penalty cases, or $3 million for a single case. (Urban Institute, The Cost of the Death Penalty in Maryland, March 2008) In California the current sytem costs $137 million per year; it would cost $11.5 million for a system without the death penalty. (California Commission for the Fair Administration of Justice, July 2008) The greatest costs associated with the death penalty occur prior to and during trial, not in post-conviction proceedings. Even if all post-conviction proceedings (appeals) were abolished, the death penalty would still be more expensive than alternative sentences. SourceShow nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:36 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:On July 24 2011 00:26 ZeGzoR wrote:On July 24 2011 00:17 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:On July 23 2011 14:33 Fionn wrote:A cell in Halden Prison, Norway's newest high security prison (Trent Isaksen/Statsbygg) ![[image loading]](http://prisonlaw.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/celle_600_0.jpg) You have got to be kidding me... No doubt he'll spend the next 21 years thinking he's a misunderstood hero and writing memoirs of the shooting at that very desk. I don't buy into the Norweigen imprisonment system that stresses rehabilitation. If you're crazy enough to shoot dozens of children as they beg for their life, you think he's going to change his views and magically become a reasonable person? Of course not. He's thanking the stars that he lives in a country where he can watch TV, read books, and get decent food on Norweigen citizens' dime. All while living in a room nicer than most are accustomed to. There are some who have lost their right to live on this planet., and this man is one of them. I think Timothy McVeigh's punishment was perfectly suitable and should be considered. Also, I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but the wikipedia article says it took police over two hours to respond on the island... Is this true?? The prison system in the nordic countrys are based on rehabilitation if possible and detention, not revenge (like in some states in the us). This guy will spend rest of his life under detention, someone telling him when to sleep and when to wake up, when to shower, when to watch tv or whatever. Truth is that harder living enviorments in prisons leads to a higher chance of ex convicts relapsing. Even if his crimes are horrific and some might say he deserves to die (even a part of me do), u cant change the system for one guy. I'd rather make an exception for terribly heinous crimes than indirectly pay for this man's cable TV bill and sandwiches while he sleeps on IKEA furniture. What's wrong with sleeping on IKEA furniture? :D
i read through the spiegel article again and they got that number by dividing the total cost for the california-death-penalty system since 1978 (4 Billion dollars) with the number of executions (13)
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On July 24 2011 00:15 zeru wrote:
Who knows if rehabilitation will work or not. It has worked previously in really messed up people. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt. However there is no need to be armchair shrinks in this thread.
he might get "rehabilitated," whatever that means, but there will never be a place for him society again. There is no point in spending resources on rehabilitating him in the hopes that he will be able to rejoin society as a productive citizen. Spend resources on trying to understand how he was able to do what he did and how to prevent something like this happening again, but him and his motives is of no use to anyone.
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Duh, of course he played video games, why else would he kill 90 kids on an island?
Fuck I hate it, but I'm kinda curious about the retarded debates about mass-murder-videogames like Warcraft (There's fucking WAR in the name already!!) that lie ahead now.
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On July 24 2011 00:39 Daray wrote:
Finnish media is already pulling the video game card telling that both of the finnish school shooters and this guy played violent video games in one form or another... makes me sick to the stomach.
Also NOW suddenly there are talks again that gun laws should be more strict. It was the same thing after the school shootings but after a month had passed they were forgotten and no one talked about them. Sad and funny at the same time
Yeah... im sure both of these guys has read books with violence, seen violent moives, cartoons etc wonder why they dont question that when they question video games.
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I lol'd.
There's no blood or guns in WoW. And parts of it is about picking flowers and riding a horse.
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Any info on what kind of gun he used?
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On July 24 2011 00:54 KillAudio wrote:
Any info on what kind of gun he used?
He had a hand gun and a automatik weapon does it is really relevant wich models he used?
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On July 24 2011 00:54 KillAudio wrote:
Any info on what kind of gun he used?
Media has been saying between Glock + Rifle/Machine gun. Don't really know what type.
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Is it yet confirmed that a second shooter was on the island?
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EPT
