EPTE-Sports in Olympics - Page 2
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
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peekn
United States1152 Posts
On May 23 2011 02:48 Draconicfire wrote: As much as I would like to see eSports in the Olympics, I rather we just make WCG and stuff into the actual eSports Olympics. Make it a lot bigger and give it more exposure so that everyone else knows about it too. I agree with this point the most. I still think that it would be insulting to what the Olympics are all about to have something that doesn't have a real physical component to the game. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
And I would easily see adoption of e-sports quickly devolving into debate about which game serves as good representative of the e-sport community... | ||
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Sovetsky Soyuz
Russian Federation905 Posts
seeing three fat or skinny nerds standing on the Olympic podium receiving medals just doesn't seem right to me haha i love this have a consistent game be #1 for decades (looking at you Brood War), and have a much larger following before it can become a true sport. Yet not even BW was able to dodge the politics of Blizzard/WCG. | ||
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BigLighthouse
United Kingdom424 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:10 MrHoon wrote: this. If anything, chess is the first in line and even chess can't get recognized. What good would SC2 or any game for that matter be? Chess is purely a mental game, wheres SC2 and other such games have significant physical parts to them as well. Not to mention being realtime and actually entertaining to watch for the casual person in comparison to chess and such On May 23 2011 03:22 BigLighthouse wrote: Olympics is for sports and as far as im concerned video games just dont fit that bill. Sure they are physical, but as people have stated they arnt quite the right kind, its mostly just hands manipulating the controls of a machine. Video games are not a sport, and the competative scene is still such a niche section of the market that the idea of them as any more than a game is probably under most of the populations radar. They are at their best an "e-sport" but this is a completely new and separate venture to any form of competition until now and they deserves a separate arena that is more appropriate to their unique qualities. Isn't shooting precisely hands manipulating the controls of a machine? | ||
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Murderotica
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:21 sovetskysoyuz wrote: haha i love this Yet not even BW was able to dodge the politics of Blizzard/WCG. And its' international following has been hit HARD by SC2, so it's not even close to being in contention. SC2 would get into the Olympics over BW, and then 1-2 Olympics later, it would be SC3 or something of the sort. That's not what Olympic events should be - they should be permanent with a guaranteed and considerable following for the foreseeable future - something that NO video-game has right now. | ||
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whiteguycash
United States476 Posts
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:23 Shikyo wrote: Chess is purely a mental game, wheres SC2 and other such games have significant physical parts to them as well. Not to mention being realtime and actually entertaining to watch for the casual person in comparison to chess and such "significant physical parts"??? moving your fingers does not in any way compare to real sports. As for casually entertaining, 99+% of the people in this world have never played/watch a single starcraft game in their life and would not have any clue what was going on. If any e-sport were to make it in the Olympics (and this would probably not happen for decades at least) it would be some simple to understand FPS game. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:23 Murderotica wrote: And its' international following has been hit HARD by SC2, so it's not even close to being in contention. SC2 would get into the Olympics over BW, and then 1-2 Olympics later, it would be SC3 or something of the sort. That's not what Olympic events should be - they should be permanent with a guaranteed and considerable following for the foreseeable future - something that NO video-game has right now. Traditional sports get rule-changes too, they just aren't called "Ice Hockey 2" or "Soccer 4". | ||
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Murderotica
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:23 Shikyo wrote: Chess is purely a mental game, wheres SC2 and other such games have significant physical parts to them as well. Not to mention being realtime and actually entertaining to watch for the casual person in comparison to chess and such Isn't shooting precisely hands manipulating the controls of a machine? Videogames are only more interesting for you to watch because you 'understand' them and know what is happening on the screen, moreso than 95% of the world (assuming this because you are on this site). Chess is universal, is the gold standard of strategy, and speed-Chess is also very dependent on speed and processing ability like SC2. The physical aspects of games would be completely lost on the masses - to them, Chess is not much different from SC2, and if we are going off that assumption, Chess should be >>>> all video games in terms of viewability and international following, no questions asked. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
"significant physical parts", yes. I'm not sure if you've tried playing at 250 apm for 30 minutes straight, but you get really sweaty and tired. Also: Archery, Shooting, Curling. Let's not only compare to 100m dash or something. On May 23 2011 03:27 Murderotica wrote: Videogames are only more interesting for you to watch because you 'understand' them and know what is happening on the screen, moreso than 95% of the world (assuming this because you are on this site). Chess is universal, is the gold standard of strategy, and speed-Chess is also very dependent on speed and processing ability like SC2. The physical aspects of games would be completely lost on the masses - to them, Chess is not much different from SC2, and if we are going off that assumption, Chess should be >>>> all video games in terms of viewability and international following, no questions asked. There's commentary... I really wonder if a person who's never seen either would get more out of a commentated SC2 game or a speedchess game. | ||
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Murderotica
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:26 Shikyo wrote: Traditional sports get rule-changes too, they just aren't called "Ice Hockey 2" or "Soccer 4". The rule-changes hardly rule out the competitors of a field the same way that a transition from BW -> SC2 -> SC3 -> C&C5 or something of the nature would. Whatever rules are changed are a result of evolution of the same sport, whereas switching to a completely new game because it's the new thing is completely different from that. They aren't called Soccer 4 for a reason - because it's still Soccer. Not the same with SC2/BW/etc. | ||
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SirazTV
United States209 Posts
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Cain0
United Kingdom608 Posts
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:29 Shikyo wrote: Yeah, speed-chess might be all right. "significant physical parts", yes. I'm not sure if you've tried playing at 250 apm for 30 minutes straight, but you get really sweaty and tired. Also: Archery, Shooting, Curling. Let's not only compare to 100m dash or something. There's commentary... I really wonder if a person who's never seen either would get more out of a commentated SC2 game or a speedchess game. Not many people watch curling, archery, and shooting. I didn't even know archery and shooting were olympic sports, or sports at all honestly. Dunno why the olympics would want another sport on that level. | ||
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Cain0
United Kingdom608 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:30 Murderotica wrote: The rule-changes hardly rule out the competitors of a field the same way that a transition from BW -> SC2 -> SC3 -> C&C5 or something of the nature would. Whatever rules are changed are a result of evolution of the same sport, whereas switching to a completely new game because it's the new thing is completely different from that. They aren't called Soccer 4 for a reason - because it's still Soccer. Not the same with SC2/BW/etc. Good Point. If E-Sports was going to be put in the Olypics (which is highly unlikely), everyone will just have to pick a game and stick with it. | ||
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Murderotica
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:29 Shikyo wrote: Yeah, speed-chess might be all right. "significant physical parts", yes. I'm not sure if you've tried playing at 250 apm for 30 minutes straight, but you get really sweaty and tired. Also: Archery, Shooting, Curling. Let's not only compare to 100m dash or something. There's commentary... I really wonder if a person who's never seen either would get more out of a commentated SC2 game or a speedchess game. I have definitely gotten sweaty and tired from BW but that doesn't eliminate the fact that archery, shooting, curling are much more understandable to the viewer VISUALLY. Commentary cannot fix that for everyone, not even the majority in my opinion. This is of course in part due to the pre-existing bias against and exclusivity of competitive gaming and the understanding of it in general, but the fact remains. Archery, shooting, curling - there is a clear goal and it is clear to see who has achieved the closest result to that that goal. In videogames, it's just stuff killing stuff and it's unclear: "Why did player A beat player B? Why did unit X beat unit Y? What are all these little units running around doing stuff and why doesn't he just make more of them?" Although I concede that commentary would solve this issue somewhat, it would have to be the most basic commentary at all times in every game in order to make people understand what they are seeing, whereas in the sports you mentioned it doesn't need to be explained. This barrier is the one that I was trying to explain earlier. I think that there are millions more people who have played chess than SC2 or any strategy video game for that matter, and I doubt that will change for a long time. This would increase the potential benefit of speedchess or even regular chess far over videogames. | ||
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SirKibbleX
United States479 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:30 Murderotica wrote: The rule-changes hardly rule out the competitors of a field the same way that a transition from BW -> SC2 -> SC3 -> C&C5 or something of the nature would. Whatever rules are changed are a result of evolution of the same sport, whereas switching to a completely new game because it's the new thing is completely different from that. They aren't called Soccer 4 for a reason - because it's still Soccer. Not the same with SC2/BW/etc. I sort of wonder how players like Justin Wong, Nada, etc. manage to maintain a massively high level of excellence across a changing gameplay scene. Maybe an e-sports genre like "RTS," "Shooters," or "Fighting Games," could be acceptible, with constantly rotating selection of games? To be honest, I see the Olympics as already being too far diluted from the original goal: seeing people do incredibly simple, universally-understood tasks with a high degree of proficiency. Running fast. Throwing things. Swimming fast. Jumping really high. Lifting heavy objects. By adding sports like Basketball and Baseball, with their specific arcane rules and interactions, some people are taken "out of the loop" as it were. Games like DOTA or WoW do this even faster for me. Have you ever heard someone talking about a game you're completely unfamiliar with? The names of specific spells, abilities, debuffs, particular strategies, even important things like character names are lost upon people unfamiliar with the game. It is difficult to watch and care about because it's just a lot of arcane rambling you don't really understand. Starcraft itself is highly vulnerable to this. It is for these reasons I don't think the Olympics is currently living up to its ideals anyways. Whether or not StarCraft or Chess should be accepted is largely irrelevant. If one accepts the premise that games that are accepted by the Olympics have become universally-enough understood to be used, then certainly Chess or Starcraft being able to enter is merely a metric of its popularity. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
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