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Russian Federation905 Posts
There has been significant buzz lately over plans to include E-Sports (also referred to as Egames or gaming), a general term to describe computer/video-based games, in the 2012 London Olympics. Some Olympics official are becoming more and more sympathetic to this cause. While the Olympics have yet to issue an official statement on the matter, supporters for Esports have grown more aggressive than ever in lobbying for the listing of video games such as Starcraft, Warcraft, and Counterstrike on the pool of official events for the Olympics, for 2012 and beyond, citing that it is a long overdue decision.
Let me present here a few arguments pro and contra this issue so for TL to discuss.
CONs
- In a traditional sense, sports has always been about physical activity and general use of motor reflex. Olympics embody this very spirit by promoting events that not only require physical exertion, but are themselves first and foremost physical activities. This is the very reason why Chess, Bowling, Billiards, and similar other sports have not yet made it to Olympics. There is no doubt that there is muscular exertion in ESports, but these are mostly limited to carpal-metacarpal (hands and fingers) and visual regions. While gamers may also have rigorous exercise routines, this are arguments more towards fitness and general well-being than on being requirements of the sport.
- As a more practical argument, video/computer games have fast turnover periods, and what is popular today may not be anymore popular on the next Olympic four years after. A possible solution to this is to adapt a seasonal basis on selecting egames for specific Olympic years. But then again, this does not serve the "tradition" that Olympics hopes to promote. They will merely be fads.
- ESports has ESWC and WCG, events that have been massively successful. ESports rightfully belong there, both according to principle (the very nature of esports and its supporters/audience) and tempo (as a yearly event, which is parallel to the turnover of video games' popularity mentioned earlier).
PROs
- Olympics needs to keep up with the times, and the very definition of sports is changing as well. To include ESports in its events will be a correct move to this direction.
- In continuation to the item above, adding ESports will also bring in new and younger audience which will invigorate an "old event"
- There is obviously a significant physical requirement in ESports. To distinguish between degrees of physical exertion required is nitpicking.
- All the elements of traditional sports are present in ESports - mental acuity, concentration, coordination, reflex, even physical condition. To still differentiate the two after this fact is already being elitist.
What do you think?
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As much as I would like to see eSports in the Olympics, I rather we just make WCG and stuff into the actual eSports Olympics. Make it a lot bigger and give it more exposure so that everyone else knows about it too.
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Is Chess an olympic discipline?
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I think this would be awesome to see, but i also think we are not going to see this anytime soon.
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Probably not going to happen.
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well golf just got into the olympics
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If Chess, Bowling and Billiards haven't made it in, then something without even the tradition of those sports probably won't.
I don't see it happening, and tbh, I don't think it SHOULD. : /
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i think it's an absolutely terrible idea and can't fathom why anyone would want video games in the Olympics
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I'm all for the growth of Esports but they have no place in the olympic games. The the summer olmpics take place every 4 years. That means even the longest lasting game would last only 3 or 4 games max. Then they would need a new game and it would be a new event. where things like running, jumping, swimming, and throwing are timeless sports and video games have a life of 16 years max.
TLDR: no
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If that's what it takes for it to be accepted as a real sport, I think I'd be good. As others have mentioned, it doesn't really 'fit' in the Olympics that much, but if it can give a boost to esports in the West, why not? People competing in an esport will have practice just as much as any other athlete, and I think the world needs to recognize that.
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Katowice25012 Posts
Chess has had this struggle for a century. Good luck with video games!
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On May 23 2011 02:56 floor exercise wrote:
i think it's an absolutely terrible idea and can't fathom why anyone would want video games in the Olympics
Indeed.
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Maybe bowling/Billard/Darts etc isn't olympic but on the other hand for example archery is olympic. I don't think Esports will become olympic in London, but I wouldn't say that it will become never olympic.
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It will probably never happen and I hope it wont happen. It's just wrong imo 
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i think it's an absolutely terrible idea and can't fathom why anyone would want video games in the Olympics
Because?
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Russian Federation905 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:05 4of8 wrote:
Maybe bowling/Billard/Darts etc isn't olympic but on the other hand for example archery is olympic. I don't think Esports will become olympic in London, but I wouldn't say that it will become never olympic.
Exactly. Among the pro arguments, I think the one that has the most merit is the one on "sports" being redefined.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On May 23 2011 02:55 Fighter wrote:
If Chess, Bowling and Billiards haven't made it in, then something without even the tradition of those sports probably won't.
I don't see it happening, and tbh, I don't think it SHOULD. : /
this.
If anything, chess is the first in line and even chess can't get recognized.
What good would SC2 or any game for that matter be?
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I think it would be really cool to see gaming in the Olympics.
Once if the biggest issues would be people not accepting it.
Also, to the average person who doesn't play much video games, it would be hard to follow.
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There is nothing to discuss. Simply not going to happen. Just stick to WCG.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
I think that the Olympics have been trying too hard to please everyone with the litany of 'fields' they have added in the past few decades. Some are clearly worthy to stand alongside the existing titans of sports, some are more dubious. I think that incorporating gaming would be a disaster - seeing three fat or skinny nerds standing on the Olympic podium receiving medals just doesn't seem right to me, and I think that the competitive gaming industry is far too fluid and young to not receive the ridicule of athletes from other sports. The majority of the non-gaming world will say "What the fuck? So a guy who plays computer games all day gets the same honors as the fastest man in the world? BS." I think that videogames don't NEED to be in the Olympics any more than the Olympics need them. We need to develop our own scene first, have a consistent game be #1 for decades (looking at you Brood War), and have a much larger following before it can become a true sport. When people watch discus, swimming, gymnastics, running, they are not privy to the absolute finest details of what the sports entail, but they get the gist. However, watching SC2 or Brood War for a newcomer is like watching pretty pictures dance around and explode, and no VALUE is given to the work/effort being put into the process. I think it might be decades if not more until this would be even fathomable, and by then I think it would only be because of mind/headset-controlled games that are possibly more free-form and less complex, simply because it would be a direct output of the players' imagination. Not sure about the last statement, but the rest holds true IMO.
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The Olympics is suppose to display the triumph of athletic accomplishment around the world, sc has no place in the Olympics.
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On May 23 2011 02:48 Draconicfire wrote:
As much as I would like to see eSports in the Olympics, I rather we just make WCG and stuff into the actual eSports Olympics. Make it a lot bigger and give it more exposure so that everyone else knows about it too.
I agree with this point the most. I still think that it would be insulting to what the Olympics are all about to have something that doesn't have a real physical component to the game.
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I myself believe this is a terrible idea. Only good thing I can imagine coming off of this is publicity value- and any publicity is good publicity, right? Still if we are going to try to bring e-sport into mainstream we should do it correctly, and I'm not sure adding it to Olympics randomly is a good way.
And I would easily see adoption of e-sports quickly devolving into debate about which game serves as good representative of the e-sport community...
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Russian Federation905 Posts
seeing three fat or skinny nerds standing on the Olympic podium receiving medals just doesn't seem right to me
haha i love this
have a consistent game be #1 for decades (looking at you Brood War), and have a much larger following before it can become a true sport.
Yet not even BW was able to dodge the politics of Blizzard/WCG.
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Olympics is for sports and as far as im concerned video games just dont fit that bill. Sure they are physical, but as people have stated they arnt quite the right kind, its mostly just hands manipulating the controls of a machine. Video games are not a sport, and the competative scene is still such a niche section of the market that the idea of them as any more than a game is probably under most of the populations radar. They are at their best an "e-sport" but this is a completely new and separate venture to any form of competition until now and they deserves a separate arena that is more appropriate to their unique qualities.
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On May 23 2011 03:10 MrHoon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 02:55 Fighter wrote:
If Chess, Bowling and Billiards haven't made it in, then something without even the tradition of those sports probably won't.
I don't see it happening, and tbh, I don't think it SHOULD. : / this. If anything, chess is the first in line and even chess can't get recognized. What good would SC2 or any game for that matter be?
Chess is purely a mental game, wheres SC2 and other such games have significant physical parts to them as well. Not to mention being realtime and actually entertaining to watch for the casual person in comparison to chess and such
On May 23 2011 03:22 BigLighthouse wrote:
Olympics is for sports and as far as im concerned video games just dont fit that bill. Sure they are physical, but as people have stated they arnt quite the right kind, its mostly just hands manipulating the controls of a machine. Video games are not a sport, and the competative scene is still such a niche section of the market that the idea of them as any more than a game is probably under most of the populations radar. They are at their best an "e-sport" but this is a completely new and separate venture to any form of competition until now and they deserves a separate arena that is more appropriate to their unique qualities.
Isn't shooting precisely hands manipulating the controls of a machine?
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:21 sovetskysoyuz wrote:Show nested quote +seeing three fat or skinny nerds standing on the Olympic podium receiving medals just doesn't seem right to me haha i love this Show nested quote +have a consistent game be #1 for decades (looking at you Brood War), and have a much larger following before it can become a true sport. Yet not even BW was able to dodge the politics of Blizzard/WCG.
And its' international following has been hit HARD by SC2, so it's not even close to being in contention. SC2 would get into the Olympics over BW, and then 1-2 Olympics later, it would be SC3 or something of the sort. That's not what Olympic events should be - they should be permanent with a guaranteed and considerable following for the foreseeable future - something that NO video-game has right now.
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Are you mad?! including a sport in the Olympic games that USA couldn't dominate at?! ridiculous. . . utterly ridiculous.
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On May 23 2011 03:23 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:10 MrHoon wrote:On May 23 2011 02:55 Fighter wrote:
If Chess, Bowling and Billiards haven't made it in, then something without even the tradition of those sports probably won't.
I don't see it happening, and tbh, I don't think it SHOULD. : / this. If anything, chess is the first in line and even chess can't get recognized. What good would SC2 or any game for that matter be? Chess is purely a mental game, wheres SC2 and other such games have significant physical parts to them as well. Not to mention being realtime and actually entertaining to watch for the casual person in comparison to chess and such
"significant physical parts"??? moving your fingers does not in any way compare to real sports. As for casually entertaining, 99+% of the people in this world have never played/watch a single starcraft game in their life and would not have any clue what was going on. If any e-sport were to make it in the Olympics (and this would probably not happen for decades at least) it would be some simple to understand FPS game.
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On May 23 2011 03:23 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:21 sovetskysoyuz wrote:seeing three fat or skinny nerds standing on the Olympic podium receiving medals just doesn't seem right to me haha i love this have a consistent game be #1 for decades (looking at you Brood War), and have a much larger following before it can become a true sport. Yet not even BW was able to dodge the politics of Blizzard/WCG. And its' international following has been hit HARD by SC2, so it's not even close to being in contention. SC2 would get into the Olympics over BW, and then 1-2 Olympics later, it would be SC3 or something of the sort. That's not what Olympic events should be - they should be permanent with a guaranteed and considerable following for the foreseeable future - something that NO video-game has right now.
Traditional sports get rule-changes too, they just aren't called "Ice Hockey 2" or "Soccer 4".
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:23 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:10 MrHoon wrote:On May 23 2011 02:55 Fighter wrote:
If Chess, Bowling and Billiards haven't made it in, then something without even the tradition of those sports probably won't.
I don't see it happening, and tbh, I don't think it SHOULD. : / this. If anything, chess is the first in line and even chess can't get recognized. What good would SC2 or any game for that matter be? Chess is purely a mental game, wheres SC2 and other such games have significant physical parts to them as well. Not to mention being realtime and actually entertaining to watch for the casual person in comparison to chess and such Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:22 BigLighthouse wrote:
Olympics is for sports and as far as im concerned video games just dont fit that bill. Sure they are physical, but as people have stated they arnt quite the right kind, its mostly just hands manipulating the controls of a machine. Video games are not a sport, and the competative scene is still such a niche section of the market that the idea of them as any more than a game is probably under most of the populations radar. They are at their best an "e-sport" but this is a completely new and separate venture to any form of competition until now and they deserves a separate arena that is more appropriate to their unique qualities. Isn't shooting precisely hands manipulating the controls of a machine?
Videogames are only more interesting for you to watch because you 'understand' them and know what is happening on the screen, moreso than 95% of the world (assuming this because you are on this site). Chess is universal, is the gold standard of strategy, and speed-Chess is also very dependent on speed and processing ability like SC2. The physical aspects of games would be completely lost on the masses - to them, Chess is not much different from SC2, and if we are going off that assumption, Chess should be >>>> all video games in terms of viewability and international following, no questions asked.
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Yeah, speed-chess might be all right.
"significant physical parts", yes. I'm not sure if you've tried playing at 250 apm for 30 minutes straight, but you get really sweaty and tired. Also: Archery, Shooting, Curling. Let's not only compare to 100m dash or something.
On May 23 2011 03:27 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:23 Shikyo wrote:On May 23 2011 03:10 MrHoon wrote:On May 23 2011 02:55 Fighter wrote:
If Chess, Bowling and Billiards haven't made it in, then something without even the tradition of those sports probably won't.
I don't see it happening, and tbh, I don't think it SHOULD. : / this. If anything, chess is the first in line and even chess can't get recognized. What good would SC2 or any game for that matter be? Chess is purely a mental game, wheres SC2 and other such games have significant physical parts to them as well. Not to mention being realtime and actually entertaining to watch for the casual person in comparison to chess and such On May 23 2011 03:22 BigLighthouse wrote:
Olympics is for sports and as far as im concerned video games just dont fit that bill. Sure they are physical, but as people have stated they arnt quite the right kind, its mostly just hands manipulating the controls of a machine. Video games are not a sport, and the competative scene is still such a niche section of the market that the idea of them as any more than a game is probably under most of the populations radar. They are at their best an "e-sport" but this is a completely new and separate venture to any form of competition until now and they deserves a separate arena that is more appropriate to their unique qualities. Isn't shooting precisely hands manipulating the controls of a machine? Videogames are only more interesting for you to watch because you 'understand' them and know what is happening on the screen, moreso than 95% of the world (assuming this because you are on this site). Chess is universal, is the gold standard of strategy, and speed-Chess is also very dependent on speed and processing ability like SC2. The physical aspects of games would be completely lost on the masses - to them, Chess is not much different from SC2, and if we are going off that assumption, Chess should be >>>> all video games in terms of viewability and international following, no questions asked.
There's commentary... I really wonder if a person who's never seen either would get more out of a commentated SC2 game or a speedchess game.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:26 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:23 Murderotica wrote:On May 23 2011 03:21 sovetskysoyuz wrote:seeing three fat or skinny nerds standing on the Olympic podium receiving medals just doesn't seem right to me haha i love this have a consistent game be #1 for decades (looking at you Brood War), and have a much larger following before it can become a true sport. Yet not even BW was able to dodge the politics of Blizzard/WCG. And its' international following has been hit HARD by SC2, so it's not even close to being in contention. SC2 would get into the Olympics over BW, and then 1-2 Olympics later, it would be SC3 or something of the sort. That's not what Olympic events should be - they should be permanent with a guaranteed and considerable following for the foreseeable future - something that NO video-game has right now. Traditional sports get rule-changes too, they just aren't called "Ice Hockey 2" or "Soccer 4".
The rule-changes hardly rule out the competitors of a field the same way that a transition from BW -> SC2 -> SC3 -> C&C5 or something of the nature would. Whatever rules are changed are a result of evolution of the same sport, whereas switching to a completely new game because it's the new thing is completely different from that. They aren't called Soccer 4 for a reason - because it's still Soccer. Not the same with SC2/BW/etc.
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Personally I hope this doesn't even happen. The Olympic committee is sooooooooo fucked up and political esports doesn't want to get involved with it.
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Well if Cricket (the Second most played game in the world) cant make it into the Olympics because of tradition, what chance does E-Sports have?
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On May 23 2011 03:29 Shikyo wrote:Yeah, speed-chess might be all right. "significant physical parts", yes. I'm not sure if you've tried playing at 250 apm for 30 minutes straight, but you get really sweaty and tired. Also: Archery, Shooting, Curling. Let's not only compare to 100m dash or something. Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:27 Murderotica wrote:On May 23 2011 03:23 Shikyo wrote:On May 23 2011 03:10 MrHoon wrote:On May 23 2011 02:55 Fighter wrote:
If Chess, Bowling and Billiards haven't made it in, then something without even the tradition of those sports probably won't.
I don't see it happening, and tbh, I don't think it SHOULD. : / this. If anything, chess is the first in line and even chess can't get recognized. What good would SC2 or any game for that matter be? Chess is purely a mental game, wheres SC2 and other such games have significant physical parts to them as well. Not to mention being realtime and actually entertaining to watch for the casual person in comparison to chess and such On May 23 2011 03:22 BigLighthouse wrote:
Olympics is for sports and as far as im concerned video games just dont fit that bill. Sure they are physical, but as people have stated they arnt quite the right kind, its mostly just hands manipulating the controls of a machine. Video games are not a sport, and the competative scene is still such a niche section of the market that the idea of them as any more than a game is probably under most of the populations radar. They are at their best an "e-sport" but this is a completely new and separate venture to any form of competition until now and they deserves a separate arena that is more appropriate to their unique qualities. Isn't shooting precisely hands manipulating the controls of a machine? Videogames are only more interesting for you to watch because you 'understand' them and know what is happening on the screen, moreso than 95% of the world (assuming this because you are on this site). Chess is universal, is the gold standard of strategy, and speed-Chess is also very dependent on speed and processing ability like SC2. The physical aspects of games would be completely lost on the masses - to them, Chess is not much different from SC2, and if we are going off that assumption, Chess should be >>>> all video games in terms of viewability and international following, no questions asked. There's commentary... I really wonder if a person who's never seen either would get more out of a commentated SC2 game or a speedchess game.
Not many people watch curling, archery, and shooting. I didn't even know archery and shooting were olympic sports, or sports at all honestly. Dunno why the olympics would want another sport on that level.
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On May 23 2011 03:30 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:26 Shikyo wrote:On May 23 2011 03:23 Murderotica wrote:On May 23 2011 03:21 sovetskysoyuz wrote:seeing three fat or skinny nerds standing on the Olympic podium receiving medals just doesn't seem right to me haha i love this have a consistent game be #1 for decades (looking at you Brood War), and have a much larger following before it can become a true sport. Yet not even BW was able to dodge the politics of Blizzard/WCG. And its' international following has been hit HARD by SC2, so it's not even close to being in contention. SC2 would get into the Olympics over BW, and then 1-2 Olympics later, it would be SC3 or something of the sort. That's not what Olympic events should be - they should be permanent with a guaranteed and considerable following for the foreseeable future - something that NO video-game has right now. Traditional sports get rule-changes too, they just aren't called "Ice Hockey 2" or "Soccer 4". The rule-changes hardly rule out the competitors of a field the same way that a transition from BW -> SC2 -> SC3 -> C&C5 or something of the nature would. Whatever rules are changed are a result of evolution of the same sport, whereas switching to a completely new game because it's the new thing is completely different from that. They aren't called Soccer 4 for a reason - because it's still Soccer. Not the same with SC2/BW/etc.
Good Point. If E-Sports was going to be put in the Olypics (which is highly unlikely), everyone will just have to pick a game and stick with it.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On May 23 2011 03:29 Shikyo wrote:Yeah, speed-chess might be all right. "significant physical parts", yes. I'm not sure if you've tried playing at 250 apm for 30 minutes straight, but you get really sweaty and tired. Also: Archery, Shooting, Curling. Let's not only compare to 100m dash or something. Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:27 Murderotica wrote:On May 23 2011 03:23 Shikyo wrote:On May 23 2011 03:10 MrHoon wrote:On May 23 2011 02:55 Fighter wrote:
If Chess, Bowling and Billiards haven't made it in, then something without even the tradition of those sports probably won't.
I don't see it happening, and tbh, I don't think it SHOULD. : / this. If anything, chess is the first in line and even chess can't get recognized. What good would SC2 or any game for that matter be? Chess is purely a mental game, wheres SC2 and other such games have significant physical parts to them as well. Not to mention being realtime and actually entertaining to watch for the casual person in comparison to chess and such On May 23 2011 03:22 BigLighthouse wrote:
Olympics is for sports and as far as im concerned video games just dont fit that bill. Sure they are physical, but as people have stated they arnt quite the right kind, its mostly just hands manipulating the controls of a machine. Video games are not a sport, and the competative scene is still such a niche section of the market that the idea of them as any more than a game is probably under most of the populations radar. They are at their best an "e-sport" but this is a completely new and separate venture to any form of competition until now and they deserves a separate arena that is more appropriate to their unique qualities. Isn't shooting precisely hands manipulating the controls of a machine? Videogames are only more interesting for you to watch because you 'understand' them and know what is happening on the screen, moreso than 95% of the world (assuming this because you are on this site). Chess is universal, is the gold standard of strategy, and speed-Chess is also very dependent on speed and processing ability like SC2. The physical aspects of games would be completely lost on the masses - to them, Chess is not much different from SC2, and if we are going off that assumption, Chess should be >>>> all video games in terms of viewability and international following, no questions asked. There's commentary... I really wonder if a person who's never seen either would get more out of a commentated SC2 game or a speedchess game.
I have definitely gotten sweaty and tired from BW but that doesn't eliminate the fact that archery, shooting, curling are much more understandable to the viewer VISUALLY. Commentary cannot fix that for everyone, not even the majority in my opinion. This is of course in part due to the pre-existing bias against and exclusivity of competitive gaming and the understanding of it in general, but the fact remains. Archery, shooting, curling - there is a clear goal and it is clear to see who has achieved the closest result to that that goal. In videogames, it's just stuff killing stuff and it's unclear: "Why did player A beat player B? Why did unit X beat unit Y? What are all these little units running around doing stuff and why doesn't he just make more of them?" Although I concede that commentary would solve this issue somewhat, it would have to be the most basic commentary at all times in every game in order to make people understand what they are seeing, whereas in the sports you mentioned it doesn't need to be explained. This barrier is the one that I was trying to explain earlier.
I think that there are millions more people who have played chess than SC2 or any strategy video game for that matter, and I doubt that will change for a long time. This would increase the potential benefit of speedchess or even regular chess far over videogames.
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On May 23 2011 03:30 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:26 Shikyo wrote:On May 23 2011 03:23 Murderotica wrote:On May 23 2011 03:21 sovetskysoyuz wrote:seeing three fat or skinny nerds standing on the Olympic podium receiving medals just doesn't seem right to me haha i love this have a consistent game be #1 for decades (looking at you Brood War), and have a much larger following before it can become a true sport. Yet not even BW was able to dodge the politics of Blizzard/WCG. And its' international following has been hit HARD by SC2, so it's not even close to being in contention. SC2 would get into the Olympics over BW, and then 1-2 Olympics later, it would be SC3 or something of the sort. That's not what Olympic events should be - they should be permanent with a guaranteed and considerable following for the foreseeable future - something that NO video-game has right now. Traditional sports get rule-changes too, they just aren't called "Ice Hockey 2" or "Soccer 4". The rule-changes hardly rule out the competitors of a field the same way that a transition from BW -> SC2 -> SC3 -> C&C5 or something of the nature would. Whatever rules are changed are a result of evolution of the same sport, whereas switching to a completely new game because it's the new thing is completely different from that. They aren't called Soccer 4 for a reason - because it's still Soccer. Not the same with SC2/BW/etc.
I sort of wonder how players like Justin Wong, Nada, etc. manage to maintain a massively high level of excellence across a changing gameplay scene. Maybe an e-sports genre like "RTS," "Shooters," or "Fighting Games," could be acceptible, with constantly rotating selection of games?
To be honest, I see the Olympics as already being too far diluted from the original goal: seeing people do incredibly simple, universally-understood tasks with a high degree of proficiency. Running fast. Throwing things. Swimming fast. Jumping really high. Lifting heavy objects. By adding sports like Basketball and Baseball, with their specific arcane rules and interactions, some people are taken "out of the loop" as it were. Games like DOTA or WoW do this even faster for me.
Have you ever heard someone talking about a game you're completely unfamiliar with? The names of specific spells, abilities, debuffs, particular strategies, even important things like character names are lost upon people unfamiliar with the game. It is difficult to watch and care about because it's just a lot of arcane rambling you don't really understand. Starcraft itself is highly vulnerable to this.
It is for these reasons I don't think the Olympics is currently living up to its ideals anyways. Whether or not StarCraft or Chess should be accepted is largely irrelevant. If one accepts the premise that games that are accepted by the Olympics have become universally-enough understood to be used, then certainly Chess or Starcraft being able to enter is merely a metric of its popularity.
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Even with how potential awesome including ESPORTS in the Olympics could be, ESPORTS really don't belong there. Video games would need their own arena of combat, an E-Olympics or something.
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Russian Federation905 Posts
For me the most interesting angle is this:
Maybe the real issue here is our romantic notion of "sports".
Society has moved and is fast moving on towards the nature of what is physical and virtual. Sports are the last remaining strongholds of this, but only because there is an organized and well funded group to promote this. But outside this notion, I think differentiating is simply an soon to be outdated concept. Its like a time lag where all the rest have gone virtual - money, education, even relationship, bu sports remain traditional.
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Honestly, I would like it if this happens as we would get some more recognition and so respect from the mainstream, but I cannot see this passing.
For one thing how are countries going to be able to pay for all the computers etc.. that they will need to run the events. This will scare all smaller countries away from hosting the olympics.
What I would prefer is if the Olympics would just announce some sort of sponsorship for WCG or something, rather than incorporating esports into the main events. The goal of the olympics is the search of the ultimate athlete, and anything that involves luck (ie... a lack of scouting) or constantly changes (new builds, styles, patches) should not be able to get in the way of the true skill.
It does kind of pain me to say this but Halo/COD (FPS in general) would be better in the olympics than SC/RTS.
Sports like golf (a century old) are just getting into the olympics, we need to establish our own major following before barging into the Olympic Games, and the game needs to be relatively stable. FIFA still debates goalline technology some 20 years after it was available, changing the game ever 4 years just doesn't fit the bill.
This being said, I want Starcraft to become big and global, just the Olympics isn't the right place for it to be.
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it will never happen, you'd be delusional to even consider it.
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On May 23 2011 02:49 FlopTurnReaver wrote:
Is Chess an olympic discipline?
No, chess has a separate olympics.
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I feel as though this would be a perversion of the olympics. Don't get me wrong I love esports, but the fact that you have to add that "e" before "sports" is pretty much admitting that it is not a sport, but rather something else that is similar.
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I dont like this idea. If we would go with the times, tennis wouldnt be in olympics but 'virtua tennis 3'. Olympics is fine like it is. I love esports but it simply feels like mixing beer with coke. Some people might find it awesome, but its no real beer anymore.
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On May 23 2011 03:46 hongo wrote:
I feel as though this would be a perversion of the olympics. Don't get me wrong I love esports, but the fact that you have to add that "e" before "sports" is pretty much admitting that it is not a sport, but rather something else that is similar.
Sorry but this didnt make much sense for me. It's called eSports because someone did go ahead and called it eSports and it established itself as such. It could have been called sports just as well.
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if chess is not going to it then dun bother. there is something called modern boardgames just to let you know. its way superior than e-sports.
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On May 23 2011 03:48 Xiron wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 03:46 hongo wrote:I feel as though this would be a perversion of the olympics. Don't get me wrong I love esports, but the + Show Spoiler +fact that you have to add that "e" before "sports" is pretty much admitting that it is not a sport, but rather something else that is similar. Sorry but this didnt make much sense for me. It's called eSports because someone did go ahead and called it eSports and it established itself as such. It could have been called sports just as well.
I don't think it could have been called sports just as well because it isn't a sport. I believe that it earned the title "e-sports" because this difference was recognized but people wanted it to still be respected as much as a sport
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On May 23 2011 03:43 moltenlead wrote:
For one thing how are countries going to be able to pay for all the computers etc.. that they will need to run the events. This will scare all smaller countries away from hosting the olympics.
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Do you have any conception of how expensive it is to host the olympic games? Rental of computers for the event is a drop in the ocean compared to the expenditure that already goes into the Olympics!! Granted I dont think that the Olympics should include computer games, but the expense is not the reason for it, nor will it ever be.
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it's going to be a while
we're going to have to wait for games like Chess to be made an Olympic competition before thinking that a competitive video game can potentially qualify for the Olympics
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I think they should add powerlifting first.
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Won't happen and shouldn't happen. As much as I love playing video games, they simply do not belong in the olympics.
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Curling is a weird olympic sport. But i don't see any games making it - board or digital. Besides, the Olympic Games aren't the forum for everything - the big team sports aren't a part of it.
When/if international SC2 teams are as established as BW teams in Korea - we can make a IESPA organization and organize a 'champions league'.
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On May 23 2011 05:02 rysecake wrote:
Won't happen and shouldn't happen. As much as I love playing video games, they simply do not belong in the olympics.
Agreed.
Sorry guys, but playing a game competitively is just not the same type of competition as athletic events, soccer, hockey, etc.
E-sports, despite it's name, are not sports. They are events, or whatever else you want to call them. But not sports.
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On May 23 2011 02:53 pyrogenetix wrote:
well golf just got into the olympics
Point being?..
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shooting with a gun is in the olympics, so esport being no physical activity isnt an argument against it being in the olympics as well
so its just about how conservative the heads of the olympics are
but as far as i know esports should be in the beijing olympics 2008. at least there was an official tournament for wc3, but somehow it started much too late and everything was messed up.
it was organized by GGL by the way
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On May 23 2011 05:20 Kurr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 05:02 rysecake wrote:
Won't happen and shouldn't happen. As much as I love playing video games, they simply do not belong in the olympics. Agreed. Sorry guys, but playing a game competitively is just not the same type of competition as athletic events, soccer, hockey, etc. E-sports, despite it's name, are not sports. They are events, or whatever else you want to call them. But not sports.
olympics arent just about sports
well, olympics is just about sports if you can explain how gun shooting is actually a sport
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If I look at disciplines like synchronous swimming or rhythmic gymnastics, eSports certainly has more practicioners and attracts more interest. Still, eSports doesn't belong to the olympic games, and it's not going to happen in the next couple of years.
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Keep esports to WCG and other huge lan events.
On May 23 2011 05:34 imperator-xy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 05:20 Kurr wrote:On May 23 2011 05:02 rysecake wrote:
Won't happen and shouldn't happen. As much as I love playing video games, they simply do not belong in the olympics. Agreed. Sorry guys, but playing a game competitively is just not the same type of competition as athletic events, soccer, hockey, etc. E-sports, despite it's name, are not sports. They are events, or whatever else you want to call them. But not sports. olympics arent just about sports well, olympics is just about sports if you can explain how gun shooting is actually a sport
What? Shooting a gun isn't like an FPS game where you point and click. You have to do a lot of things to prepare for your shot. It is physical enough.
Let us use the biathalon as an example as to how shooting a rifle is a physical sport.
The 20 kilometres (12 mi) individual race (15 km for women) is the oldest biathlon event; the distance is skied over five laps. The biathlete shoots four times at any shooting lane,[1] in the order of prone, standing, prone, standing, totaling 20 targets. For each missed target a fixed penalty time, usually one minute, is added to the skiing time of the biathlete. Competitors' starts are staggered, normally by 30 seconds.
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I feel that if chess is not an Olympic sport, any other 'brain' sport should not be too. I'd rather have the WCG get more attention.
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As much as I love sc2 and many other games for that matter, I don't think any of them belongs in the olympics, I don't see them as a Sport, even tho they clearly are. Somehow I view ESports as a division by itself, it should not mix with the physical Sports.
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Replace all olympic sports with wii sports. How could this go wrong?
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How about making an olympiade of brain sports just like there's currently an olympiade of physical sports? Somebody must have had this idea before?
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On May 23 2011 05:47 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
How about making an olympiade of brain sports just like there's currently an olympiade of physical sports? Somebody must have had this idea before?
Noone is gonna watch that. Just think about it: would you like to watch two people playing a chess game for hours? I've personally got better things to do.
I know that SC2 isn't chess, but still..
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On May 23 2011 05:41 Kralic wrote:Keep esports to WCG and other huge lan events. Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 05:34 imperator-xy wrote:On May 23 2011 05:20 Kurr wrote:On May 23 2011 05:02 rysecake wrote:
Won't happen and shouldn't happen. As much as I love playing video games, they simply do not belong in the olympics. Agreed. Sorry guys, but playing a game competitively is just not the same type of competition as athletic events, soccer, hockey, etc. E-sports, despite it's name, are not sports. They are events, or whatever else you want to call them. But not sports. olympics arent just about sports well, olympics is just about sports if you can explain how gun shooting is actually a sport What? Shooting a gun isn't like an FPS game where you point and click. You have to do a lot of things to prepare for your shot. It is physical enough. Let us use the biathalon as an example as to how shooting a rifle is a physical sport. Show nested quote +The 20 kilometres (12 mi) individual race (15 km for women) is the oldest biathlon event; the distance is skied over five laps. The biathlete shoots four times at any shooting lane,[1] in the order of prone, standing, prone, standing, totaling 20 targets. For each missed target a fixed penalty time, usually one minute, is added to the skiing time of the biathlete. Competitors' starts are staggered, normally by 30 seconds.
uhm of course i know biathlon, but using biathlon as an example is wrong as shooting a rifle is just a part of it (you have to shoot after going a long distance)
but at the olympics there are events where you just stand around and use a gun to shoot baloons. i think you wont tell me that this is more physical than esport
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additionally, while at chess you dont need any physical ability at all, you have to be good with your mouse and keyboard at esports. that is a physical thing, even though you dont need to run 30km
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Katowice25012 Posts
On May 23 2011 05:46 RoosterSamurai wrote:
Replace all olympic sports with wii sports. How could this go wrong?
I would watch the hell out of this.
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I believe that it would be better of E-Sports to be introduced into sometihgn such as the Olympics over time
This would give people a chance to slowerly become more familier with the sport.
For example I think that there should be greater televised matches before even thinking about having something such as SC2 in the Olymipics
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On May 23 2011 05:52 imperator-xy wrote:
uhm of course i know biathlon, but using biathlon as an example is wrong as shooting a rifle is just a part of it (you have to shoot after going a long distance)
but at the olympics there are events where you just stand around and use a gun to shoot baloons. i think you wont tell me that this is more physical than esport
/
additionally, while at chess you dont need any physical ability at all, you have to be good with your mouse and keyboard at esports. that is a physical thing, even though you dont need to run 30km
Ahh I actually did not know they had that type of gun shooting, I guess I never see it televised. I still think esports in the Olympics would do more harm then good for it. It is just such a volatile event, unless you say well BW lasted so long. Then we might as well just give Korea the gold silver and bronze medals. WCG does a good job at an olympic style event where you qualify and play in the grand finals for a chance at a medal for your country on their website.
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Pro:
Most entertaining and awesome-tacular Olympics ever,
Also, it would be very funny to see some NBC caster try to talk about the SC games, and how they mess up.
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On May 23 2011 06:06 MaxField wrote:
Pro:
Most entertaining and awesome-tacular Olympics ever,
Also, it would be very funny to see some NBC caster try to talk about the SC games, and how they mess up.
Day[9], Tastosis, etc. would be making some real BANK in that case looool
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Canada7170 Posts
By the time video games are ever recognized by the olympics, StarCraft will be dead or at least version 100+ in which you are commanding your troops real time (who are on your team) and are engaging in virtual combat across a vast stadium.
And at that point it's probably pretty close to a team sport anyway.
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On May 23 2011 03:03 heyoka wrote:
Chess has had this struggle for a century. Good luck with video games!
Chess will likely never make it in for the exact same reason that a video game won't..... the olympic sports all require some amount of physical prowess.
Archers are usually quite strong and have extremely good hand eye co-ordination, runners have to well run fast etc.
Esports require no physical skill other than being able to move your hands fast, and if that qualifies it as an olympic sport then speed typing or speed piano playing would also qualify.
Esports don't need the olympics, just like extreme sports don't. Snowboarding made it in to the olympics only because its gotten so huge, the plethora of other extreme sports out there simply don't have the following to be in it and they don't need to be.
We need an eOlympics, even if it was run under the Olympics commission itself, it would never be included in the real olympics..... and it shouldn't ever be.
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esports should be the new Poker boom making a official federation KespA but for all the world. And with the games Starcraft 1 and 2, Counter-Strike and Warcraft 3.
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would be awesome if it would happen 
P.S. To all ppl saying "no" , grow up and realise that cyber-sports are the future
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The Olympics are about atlethisism (spelled wrong?), and esports doesnt have that, sooo no it wont ever happen, and it shouldnt (thank god!) ever happen.
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On May 23 2011 06:49 RTudoRR wrote:would be awesome if it would happen P.S. To all ppl saying "no" , grow up and realise that cyber-sports are the future
Grow up, and realise that its called esports, not cyber sports...
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As someone who has worked in the olympic movement, I would really like a source on the interest of esports. Most of the IOC executive committee are old and don't even own a computer....so I seriously doubt there is any interest in esports. Nice try though.
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Nah, we've got WCG. I don't even think video games belong in the olympics. It just doesn't seem to fit the olympic picture. Mind you I don't think "table tennis" belongs in the olympics either so I may be a bit of a purist when it comes to defining a physical "sport"
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As much as i'd like it, it won't happen. Plus korea will win everything.
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People using the argument that archery/shooting is in the Olympics and therefore eSports has a place as well, there is a huge difference here.
Archery is one of the core events of the old Olympic games, meaning that they competed in it back in Greece. Now, this lead to people picking up the sport for the first modern Olympic game and from there the ball has just been rolling.
The reason gun-shooting is in the Olympics is that most of the people contending in it back in the days where military personnel and it was only natural for them to add shooting.
Now, I oppose the addition of any new games to the Olympics. It's already too clustered, it's better with fewer, "cleaner" events so that you can follow them all and cheer.
That means, eliminate sports such as wrestling (sooooo much bribery), golf(It's not epic in the Olympic was) and all the gimmicky sports.
I love eSports but if it joined the Olympics I would personally attempt to bring the scene down to stop the madness.
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On May 23 2011 02:44 sovetskysoyuz wrote:PROs- Olympics needs to keep up with the times, and the very definition of sports is changing as well. To include ESports in its events will be a correct move to this direction.
- In continuation to the item above, adding ESports will also bring in new and younger audience which will invigorate an "old event"
- There is obviously a significant physical requirement in ESports. To distinguish between degrees of physical exertion required is nitpicking.
- All the elements of traditional sports are present in ESports - mental acuity, concentration, coordination, reflex, even physical condition. To still differentiate the two after this fact is already being elitist.
What do you think?
Really surprised that you can't see your own bias in writing such things.
* The olympics is up with the times. If you want events for the youth of today then consider the likes of under 21 football, rugby sevens, basketball and BMX. I'm pretty sure some young people like those
* Olympics may or may not benefit from additional audiences, but esports will not really do that. We get a hard-on for audiences of 50,000 on a stream. The normal olympic audiences are in the billions.
* As you know the Olympics is an ancient athletic event. E-sports is certainly not that. Thats not really nitpicking at all.
Also, above discussion notwithstanding, it takes a MASSIVE fan base for a sport to become an olympic sport. Consider how huge Golf is world-wide, and it has only just managed to make it in. Also consider that the ability for a sport to be easily followed by the uninitiated is also a massive factor in whether it can be an olympic sport
edit: on the shooting point - I think there are quite different standards to be aware of for a sport remaining in the olympics and a sport joining the olympics. To an extent, once you're in you're in, but that doesn't mean a sport on the margin of the olympic values (such as shooting) can set a precedent for further fringe sports.
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I find it quite weird that people seem so passionate about the matter.
In my eyes, there are no technichal differences that disqualifies e-sports from being at the olympics. However, there are lots and lots of video games, and more importantly, they are usually updated/changed/newer versions come etc. so it would be kind of strange to have a bunch of events that change from year to year, it makes alot more sense to keep e-sports to itself, as a WCG type event. The e-sport culture in korea does not really have many differences from the way other sports are competed in, so it is def. possible that there will be official committees etc in the future of e-sports on a global scale, I would hope so at least.
I don't really see the point of adding e-sports to the olympics though, but it is not impossible that the future will hold e-sports players in the same regard as olympic athletes, I mean, I bet alot of people here already does that.
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People are forgetting something that's pretty big. Before ESPORTS can be considered an olympic sport, it has to be considered a sport. It's not about what physical and what's not. Chess is a sport.
There is no Swedish Federation of Starcraft, or american, or even korean, the set of rules that guide it are what's imposed by the game itself, or you could say by Blizzard, and the competitions individually, but it's hard to say they are comparable to an organization like FIFA or FIBA. Kespa may be a little closer, for BW, in Korea, but it's not exactly it.
"How does a sport become Olympic?
To make it onto the Olympic programme, a sport first has to be recognised: it must be administered by an International Federation which ensures that the sport's activities follow the Olympic Charter. If it is widely practised around the world and meets a number of criteria established by the IOC session, a recognised sport may be added to the Olympic programme on the recommendation of the IOC's Olympic Programme Commission. "
Extracted from the Olympic website.
There are tons of sports hoping to become part of the Olympics, some with a lot more players than ESPORTS, and by players I mean people that chose that sport to compete in, not play for leisure.
I actually don't understand why the writer took some much time writing about the valors or ESPORTs and all, but forget maybe the biggest thing, something that doesn't depend on their end, but ours, first we need an International Federation of ESPORTS, and I don't see that happening soon.
Some links I've found, while making this post, because I wasn't completelly sure of the regulations myself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_sport
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_federation
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I personally see no problem with the concept of virtual games joining the Olympics. However, I do not believe that computer gaming is well established enough to have the social acceptance required to get into the Olympics.
Basically, I don't think that for the near future, Esports will have any place in the Olympics.
And if you try to predict beyond the "near future", maybe a century from now, there's really no telling what computer gaming will have evolved into. So, there's not much point in pondering it.
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Personally as much as I love Esports I do not think it should be apart of the traditional olympic games for a few reasons:
1- I don't even agree with the definition you gave for the Olympics or how they are now, I always saw the Olympics as the ultimate place for competition in the most simplistic forms of being better than other people physically i.e. running, swimming, throwing, jumping.
2- The term "Esports" could not be a part of the Olympics because it is far to general of a term, it would have to be either one game or one game would need to completely take over the term of Esport i.e. Starcraft 2 or DotA or something would have to become The Esport.
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Should put a poll in.
I honestly could careless about seeing Esports in the olympics. I would rather see the major organizations we have now, popularized and more mainstream.
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ESports already has events that are far better suited for them. The Olympics is not the place for Esports I would say...
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On May 23 2011 05:52 imperator-xy wrote:
but at the olympics there are events where you just stand around and use a gun to shoot baloons. i think you wont tell me that this is more physical than esport
/
additionally, while at chess you dont need any physical ability at all, you have to be good with your mouse and keyboard at esports. that is a physical thing, even though you dont need to run 30km
It definitely is. You have to hold and aim a weapon that weighs like 5 kg or so, and be able to control your breathing so you don't miss.
you want to compare that to sitting in a chair? lol
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Maybe in 30 years when everyone plug themselves into a computer.
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Another thing is not many people will understand whats going on, where as in most sports you have simple goals/what your aiming to do (getting ball into basket, into goal etc) where as if say some guy does a awesome drop, on bw, the people from around the world wont really get whats happening.
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On May 23 2011 02:44 sovetskysoyuz wrote:
There has been significant buzz lately over plans to include E-Sports (also referred to as Egames or gaming), a general term to describe computer/video-based games, in the 2012 London Olympics. Some Olympics official are becoming more and more sympathetic to this cause.
I also object to this as it is a complete falsification (either by the OP, or whoever he/she got it from).
The sports for the 2012 olympics have been locked in for at least 6 years. Even Brazil 2016 has been closed for over 12 months. So there are absolutely NO plans for it to be in 2012
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Not all competitions have to be in the Olympics. Why on Earth would eSports, a hugely divided and volatile "sport" (if you even want to call it that, and most people wouldn't) deserve in? It makes no sense whatsoever. The Olympics already "keeps up with the times" (too much in my opinion) with some of their newer additions and has no need to bring in the comparably tiny eSports audience that isn't already interested.
This would honestly just be embarrassing. I love eSports but the Olympics is for highly established sports. We haven't even had BW pro gaming for much more than a decade and it's seen as the pillar of stability, despite the fact that it has a sequel which is more popular everywhere but one country, has only just had legal disputes settled, and really doesn't have any international acclaim.
There is also the issue that no one owns the rights to football or running or swimming or even chess. Any eSport game picked up for the Olympics would have to be public property and I don't know of any competitive games like that.
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I don't think the Olympics should include E-Sports for most of the cons listed, and I think the audience is large enough that there isn't a need to "invigorate" it.
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Most likly not gna happen but you can always wish !
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Vatican City State53 Posts
On May 23 2011 09:32 Retgery wrote:
Should put a poll in.
I honestly could careless about seeing Esports in the olympics. I would rather see the major organizations we have now, popularized and more mainstream.
I'll do it.
Poll: Should ESports be an Olympic eventNo (17) 89% Yes (2) 11% 19 total votes Your vote: Should ESports be an Olympic event (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Also, I think if anything this discussion, not only in TL but also officially, is good. Having this is public discourse is a start if it is to be considered at all eventually. Personally I'm not sure yet whether it should be Olympic, or sports at all, but bringing it to the public is a good step forward as it sheds some light into the topic and gives it some publicity.
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i agree with the elitist satement, but it is what it is, could you imagine the QQ by the older generation if this happened
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for those of you making chess argument, chess just shouldn't be the olympics.
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I agree with Oopsoopsbaby. It is just not going to happen. Whether you like it or not. Even many "traditional" sports dont make it to the Olympics
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Everyone else has already made the relevant points, but I feel compelled to just throw in a post... While I love eSports, and I'll support the hell out of it for the rest of my days, the Olympics is not a place for it. It just doesn't make any sense to even lobby for it, honestly.
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On May 23 2011 12:41 dreamsmasher wrote:
for those of you making chess argument, chess just shouldn't be the olympics.
I love chess but SC2 makes more sense as an olympic sport. It simply looks more like a sport and can actually be fun to follow even if you know little about it.
Ultimately the Olympic Movement is a business organization, so when esports is popular enough we're probably going to see it at the Olympics.
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After having watched some olympics, and wikipedia'd out of interest, some people here don't understand what's so difficult about firing a weapon at a target. For the best possible accuracy, they fire in between breaths, and sometimes even between heartbeats to minimize the chance of a slight miss.
Although I will admit, even as a part of Canada, I don't understand how curling is an olympic sport...
esports does take skill. However to prove it to people will require a progamer to actually go out and show why starcraft/whathaveyou is difficult. Also as stated earlier, the cycle rate of games is quite high. Sure, some staples like CS 1.6 and CS:S have lasted ~10 years and still have a strong competitive backing, but for the most part, games phase out.
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On May 23 2011 13:01 Amui wrote:
After having watched some olympics, and wikipedia'd out of interest, some people here don't understand what's so difficult about firing a weapon at a target. For the best possible accuracy, they fire in between breaths, and sometimes even between heartbeats to minimize the chance of a slight miss.
Although I will admit, even as a part of Canada, I don't understand how curling is an olympic sport...
esports does take skill. However to prove it to people will require a progamer to actually go out and show why starcraft/whathaveyou is difficult. Also as stated earlier, the cycle rate of games is quite high. Sure, some staples like CS 1.6 and CS:S have lasted ~10 years and still have a strong competitive backing, but for the most part, games phase out.
true for the main part. But on the other hand starcraft itself has been a very sturdy thing. As for Halo and COD those games are all so very similar that even if they get replaced people already have a basic understanding of what is going on. If you think about esports as in just the game series then alot of stuff has been on top for a very long time. Once again, Halo, COD, Starcraft.
With the recent Taiwan league, and the nasl, the ipl too, along with GSL. I have to say that there are starting to become enough leagues around the world that the olympics could take us seriously. As for the firing between breaths. I have to say that takes less work than what the starcraft guys are doing.
One more thing.... We are a very organized people. We are supportive and keep up with stuff. That is an edge that say bowlers don't really have. I'm pretty sure a far higher percentage of Starcraft players compared to say bowlers know what is going on in the pro scene. If all it took was for starcraft to become an olympic sport was for enough of the public to go to some site and say yes there would be every stream telling ppl to go there, all the starcraft sites saying to go there, all of us using word of mouth telling others to go there. Posting on facebook and twitter for ppl to go there, even telling strangers on ladder for ppl to go to the site and vote for sc to become an olympic sport.
The fact we have such a strong and more importantly active fanbase is what we have going for us.
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Esports in Olympics is a great idea but its time hasn't come yet, I believe. In ten, twenty years when gaming is accepted by general public as a sport which people have to actually dedicate time to and not just a bunch of kids with nothing better to do, then maybe. Right now they would have a hard time accepting it and anything forced upon someone is destined to be rejected.
So IMO yes, but not now.
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On June 05 2011 04:53 JtG wrote:
Esports in Olympics is a great idea but its time hasn't come yet, I believe. In ten, twenty years when gaming is accepted by general public as a sport which people have to actually dedicate time to and not just a bunch of kids with nothing better to do, then maybe. Right now they would have a hard time accepting it and anything forced upon someone is destined to be rejected.
So IMO yes, but not now.
all ya have to do is some positive influence on the public. You forget to mention that people are stupid. It usually doesn't take much to change their mind.
i.e. jury at court may suddenly think the guy is guilty just cause the lawyer goes and says that he wasn't at the party when it was busted for cocaine even though his friends were.
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Why do people keep making these threads, computer games don't belong in the Olympics wtf.
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not gonna happen. especially since there are no amateur starcraft 2 players of a high caliber. the olympics hate using professional athletes, they're not going to bend that rule for video game nerds.
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Man, as much as I like video games and competition of any sort in general, this sounds utterly absurd.
e-Sports are not Olympic level sports. I agree with the other people here who have said that it would be a better idea to elevate the status of GSL etc. than to add video-gaming to the Olympics.
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I'd rather see Mixed Martial Arts or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in the Olympics.
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Well an official World Master tournament would be nice to get at least.
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Chess will be there. I can't see why Egames shouldn't too. They would have to be really selective. None of this every year a new game like WCG. Only the classics. Counterstrike, BW, SF and such.
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- No chance at all it will happen for another many, many years. I highly doubt it will happen in the next 30 years.
- Chess isn't even there, and chess is the closest e-sports gets to what's traditionally viewed as sports.
- Fundamental problem with including e-sports (here "sport" is viewed as a competitive activity, not a commonly-accepted definition, but still used occasionally, when talking about things like chess) into the Olympics is this: any competitive game fit for being an e-sport is developed by a given company. For this reason, including e-sports into the Olympics would amount to, essentially, putting TONS of money on that company's hand. There is no way in hell this will happen.
- In general, the above problem (the fact that a single company makes the game, keeps it balanced and calls all the shots) is one of the things that will prevent e-sports from ever becoming mainstream. No actual sport is "sold" to you by a single company. There are tons of other problems with considering e-sports to be sports, but the above is one of them.
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Wait wait wait, is this really being taken seriously by the olympics committee or who ever is in charge or is this just die hard e-sports fans/advocates trying to make it seem more likely than it really is?
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On June 05 2011 05:14 GrimReefer wrote:
not gonna happen. especially since there are no amateur starcraft 2 players of a high caliber. the olympics hate using professional athletes, they're not going to bend that rule for video game nerds.
Was the case 50+ years ago, no longer the case. In many sports, including just about all the major ones (some exceptions though), the competing athletes in Olympics are professionals.
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On June 05 2011 05:14 GrimReefer wrote:
not gonna happen. especially since there are no amateur starcraft 2 players of a high caliber. the olympics hate using professional athletes, they're not going to bend that rule for video game nerds.
It doesn't have to be SC2 lol. Theres tons of excellent amateur BW and CS players.
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maybe some day korea will host the olympics and they can put sc in as the sport they choose
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1019 Posts
this is just a fantasy/wishful thinking by super diehard nerdy e-sports fans.
-turnover rate is too high
-pool of players not big enough
-people who care is miniscule compared to olympic sports
-esports already has WCG where it belongs
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On May 23 2011 02:55 Fighter wrote:
If Chess, Bowling and Billiards haven't made it in, then something without even the tradition of those sports probably won't.
I don't see it happening, and tbh, I don't think it SHOULD. : /
my thoughts exactly, Chess is one of the biggest sports in the world, with lots of money on the line, and its still not in, but gl anyways.
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No, for the same reason chess isn't, wouldn't ever and shouldn't be in the Olympics. It is not a physical sport.
Should there be an olympic-esque event for all 'mental' sports? Absolutely.
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No.
Maybe a simultaneous event, like the paralympics.
But not as Olympic disciplines.
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Where have you been the past 10 years? The Olympics of e-sports is called WCG. The only problem is that a lot of countries aren't represented because of monetary constraints, for example Canada not sending players for BW the last couple of years.
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Im fine with Olympics trying to be an athletic sporting event.
if chess makes it though, id like to see it as well. If not, let it stay athletic and sporting event.
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If we gonna get eSports into OG we first need an official federation/committee for ranking+++, like FIDE in chess, FIS in skiing, FIFA for fotball and so on. This should had been done for YEARS ago, any near this is Kespa in Korea.
An official WM (world masters) tournament would be nice start atleast.
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No.
It should never be allowed, not in the olympics. The olympics are for athletes and athletic competition. Want to play computer games make an event like WCG or something.
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The thing about Olympics is that they're comprised of sports with more competitors than spectators that contribute nothing at all to society, like track and field events which have no spectating value outside of nationalism. And it's amazing to see so much money thrown at such useless sports. Who cares who the fastest man is? It sure as hell doesn't help anyone. The same can kind of be said for gaming but professional gaming is actually able to be entertaining.
The only reason anyone cares for example about track and field events such as the 100m is because it is constantly reported on during the olympics. No one cares about the 100m outside of the Olympics, but people consistently care about starcraft, and chess for example. Of course this is only a problem with the Summer Olympics considering the real olympics only have sports that are entertaining to watch.
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On June 05 2011 12:08 ComusLoM wrote:
The thing about Olympics is that they're comprised of sports with more competitors than spectators that contribute nothing at all to society, like track and field events which have no spectating value outside of nationalism. And it's amazing to see so much money thrown at such useless sports.
All sports are, by definition, 100% useless. Olympics (and most other international competitions, to varying degrees) are, not by definition, but due to their history, opportunities for self-sustaining (i.e., not produced by the state, but rather by people's instincts) nationalist propaganda. So e-sports would not really be any different, at least in this regard.
On June 05 2011 12:08 ComusLoM wrote:
Who cares who the fastest man is? It sure as hell doesn't help anyone. The same can kind of be said for gaming but professional gaming is actually able to be entertaining.
I heard the same argument made by runners, who genuinely enjoy watching competitors in their sports. I think it's a question of: "How much do you need to know about the sport to enjoy watching it?" The nice thing about many sports like football(s), tennis, etc., is that you don't need to know almost anything about them to enjoy watching, versus sports like running, javelin, chess and e-sports require knowing a fair amount about the sport (and generally require some participation experience) to enjoy watching them. So in this sense, e-sports are in the same boat as running.
On June 05 2011 12:08 ComusLoM wrote:
The only reason anyone cares for example about track and field events such as the 100m is because it is constantly reported on during the olympics. No one cares about the 100m outside of the Olympics, but people consistently care about starcraft, and chess for example.
Not true. Not sure about all track and field events, but certainly not true for running.
On June 05 2011 12:08 ComusLoM wrote:Of course this is only a problem with the Summer Olympics considering the real olympics only have sports that are entertaining to watch.
Speed skating is significantly more entertaining than running?
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WCG is too flippant with their line-up of games to be considered 'olympic' in my opinion. All the mobile games and bad console games really cheapen the whole thing. This is actually the thing that will hold e-sports back; the lack of an unchanging platform for each genre. SC2 will last for a long time, sure, but until new StarCraft games stop being developed it's a bit unstable. New whole versions (or game-changing patches for that matter) of 100m sprints don't come out every few years and cause all runners to re-learn a new platform.
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On June 06 2011 09:24 Volkov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 12:08 ComusLoM wrote:Of course this is only a problem with the Summer Olympics considering the real olympics only have sports that are entertaining to watch. Speed skating is significantly more entertaining than running?
Of course since speed skating has the actual excitement of sustained speed.
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On June 05 2011 05:14 GrimReefer wrote:
not gonna happen. especially since there are no amateur starcraft 2 players of a high caliber. the olympics hate using professional athletes, they're not going to bend that rule for video game nerds.
uhh... what?
olympic basketball uses pro players. olympic hockey uses pro players. tennis uses pro players. most of the track and field athletes are pros (they participate in diamond/gold leagues) and so forth and so forth. i don't think there are that many "amateur only" events except for boxing.
the olympics certainly doesn't hate using pros if they're the highest level athletes for their respective event. this amateur argument certainly isn't why sc2 is not going to be an olympic event.
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I feel like the world is changing, and this is something that would be possible, but only if there is a serious effort to expand the community even more.
Also, one thing I wonder, haven't most games at WCG been around for a while? From the top of my head, Starcraft, Counter Strike, Warcraft, Tekken, FIFA, etc. are the most important ones, and they're all big names that have endured at least 8 years (I know it doesn't have a legacy like something such as "running in an oval" or "lifting really heavy shit" has, but that's a good sign.)
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Canada352 Posts
Although I would like to see eSports in the Olympics, the industry has too many branches. Maybe an eSports Olympics? Another reason why I don't think it will work is that people who watch eSports and people who watch the Olympics are 2 very different groups that only certain groups will tune in for what they prefer.
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sc:bw and CS have been in the chinese olympics already i believe
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EPT
