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On May 11 2011 12:25 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:23 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:19 Moonling wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 Sight- wrote:
Why does it matter if it's a choice? I'm seriously confused by that.
BTW: Autonomy should probably only be upheld if the leaders are acting legitimately. Even if I don't know precisely what a legitimate action is egregious violations of human rights are almost certainly an illegitimate action
AND: Even if a leader was allowed to do what they wanted, gay people are part of their citizenry too so this is a clear violation of the minimum protections that should be allowed to their citizenry. Criminals are also citizens; and they have very minimum rights. (I am NOT comparing homosexuals or relating them to criminals.) My point is that Uganda has a different view of homosexuals than the rest of the world. Just because a country has a different view, doesn't mean shit if the whole world thinks differently. Our world has a different view. Earth > Country. This is the same logic that led to the colonization of Africa
Yeah more like Westernized nations > Africa, but same general concept. Forcing beliefs onto other people.
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On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet.
You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong 
Another good topic for some of you to look into is the issue of female circumcision in Africa and western intervention.
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On May 11 2011 11:53 Doorhandle wrote:
I really thought this forum was full of intelligent people who shared my views on religion and homosexuality, but now I see otherwise. Im disgusted by the lack of understanding people have on either subject. Unfortunately, as humans, we have built in mechanisms that make us keep believing what we want to believe, even when faced with undeniable evidence against or for something. Right now, this thread is getting nowhere. Stop sharing religious and political views, no on is going to change their opinion, AT ALL. To the homophobic people in this thread, what the hell are you doing here? We're trying to raise awareness of a cause that you obviously dont agree with. Let's just try to do as much as we can to raise awareness about this bill and leave it at that (only 24 hours to go anyways...).
I disagree. All I can speak to is my own country but american law is very clear.
The first amendment says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Legally redefining marriage as between one man and one woman, or an explicit legal ban on gay marriage prohibits churches from performing gay marriages. Such a law would therefore be in direct violation of the establishment clause and therefore illegal.
Gay marriage opponents cannot provide a reasonable justification for the opinion that performing gay marriages should be banned and cannot explain how such a ban can possibly be legal when it would CLEARLY prohibit the free exercise of religion. Until they can do this, they must recognize that their opinion is bigoted and not suitable for legislation.
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On May 11 2011 12:27 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:
[quote]
Uhh Negative, guilty.
1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet. You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong
Not only that. I have the right to vote to ban things that I think are wrong.
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On May 11 2011 12:28 platorepublic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:27 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:
[quote]
That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet. You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong Not only that. I have the right to vote to ban things that I think are wrong.
Right, that's an opinion. What you think is wrong other people might not think is wrong, and what matters in this case, is what the people of Uganda think is wrong, because the policy affects Uganda.
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whites are cool
blacks are cool
latinos are cool
asians are cool
fat people are cool
skinny people are cool
guys are cool
girls are cool
gays are cool
lesbians are cool
stop getting in the way of other people's fucking lifestyles, holier than thou attitudes. All the bigots trying to regulate or change someone's lifestyle and sexual preferences should be the ones bound for "hell" (IF that exists, but that's a different debate) JUST LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE, it doesn't affect you, what's happening behind closed doors of other people, or in public.
pisses me off.
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On May 11 2011 12:30 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:28 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:27 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:
[quote]
I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet. You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong Not only that. I have the right to vote to ban things that I think are wrong. Right, that's an opinion.
And if the majority agrees with me, it becomes a right.
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On May 11 2011 12:31 platorepublic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:30 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:28 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:27 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:
[quote]
I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet. You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong Not only that. I have the right to vote to ban things that I think are wrong. Right, that's an opinion. And if the majority agrees with me, it becomes a right.
This is a localized issue. Maybe if you want to talk about persecution of gays on a global basis then your opinion has a weight.
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On May 11 2011 12:32 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:31 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:30 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:28 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:27 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:
[quote]
Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet. You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong Not only that. I have the right to vote to ban things that I think are wrong. Right, that's an opinion. And if the majority agrees with me, it becomes a right. This is a localized issue. Maybe if you want to talk about persecution of gays on a global basis then your opinion has a weight.
There is no such thing as a localised issue. That's YOUR poor judgement and opinion.
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On May 11 2011 12:33 platorepublic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:32 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:31 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:30 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:28 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:27 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:
[quote]
Oh, that must make you so much better than me.
Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet. You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong Not only that. I have the right to vote to ban things that I think are wrong. Right, that's an opinion. And if the majority agrees with me, it becomes a right. This is a localized issue. Maybe if you want to talk about persecution of gays on a global basis then your opinion has a weight. There is no such thing as a localised issue. That's YOUR poor judgement and opinion.
I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. Maybe African nations don't GIVE A SHIT what people from other countries think. You can have all the opinions you want, but at the end of the day they should do what they want to do. They shouldn't do this or that just because some country 1000s of miles away thinks it bad. I'm tired of all this "white love" bullshit assuming the whole world needs to be Westernized.
What if you were a Congressmen voting on a bill and some Mongolians think that bill is the worst thing in the world? You shouldn't even consider it, they aren't your constituents.
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On May 11 2011 12:36 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:33 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:32 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:31 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:30 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:28 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:27 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:
[quote]
Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet. You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong Not only that. I have the right to vote to ban things that I think are wrong. Right, that's an opinion. And if the majority agrees with me, it becomes a right. This is a localized issue. Maybe if you want to talk about persecution of gays on a global basis then your opinion has a weight. There is no such thing as a localised issue. That's YOUR poor judgement and opinion. I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. Maybe African nations don't GIVE A SHIT what people from other countries think. You can have all the opinions you want, but at the end of the day they should do what they want to do. They shouldn't do this or that just because some country 1000s of miles away thinks it bad. I'm tired of all this "white love" bullshit assuming the whole world needs to be Westernized.
You are misunderstood Period
Edit: And I just realised you are evil deep in your heart. I feel so sorry for you. I will stop arguing now, it wasn't even an argument.
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17051 Posts
On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford.
I teach philosophy at Oxford and can say with certitude that you're incorrect.
See how this works?
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On May 11 2011 12:32 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:31 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:30 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:28 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:27 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:
[quote]
Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet. You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong Not only that. I have the right to vote to ban things that I think are wrong. Right, that's an opinion. And if the majority agrees with me, it becomes a right. This is a localized issue. Maybe if you want to talk about persecution of gays on a global basis then your opinion has a weight.
Localized in a single country or not, we do have a little thing called the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which as a member of the human species we all have a hand in upholding.
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On May 11 2011 12:39 platorepublic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:36 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:33 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:32 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:31 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:30 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:28 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:27 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:
[quote]
Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet. You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong Not only that. I have the right to vote to ban things that I think are wrong. Right, that's an opinion. And if the majority agrees with me, it becomes a right. This is a localized issue. Maybe if you want to talk about persecution of gays on a global basis then your opinion has a weight. There is no such thing as a localised issue. That's YOUR poor judgement and opinion. I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying. Maybe African nations don't GIVE A SHIT what people from other countries think. You can have all the opinions you want, but at the end of the day they should do what they want to do. They shouldn't do this or that just because some country 1000s of miles away thinks it bad. I'm tired of all this "white love" bullshit assuming the whole world needs to be Westernized. You are misunderstood Period
I don't see how you don't understand? As someone from the United Kingdom, who probably has never been to Uganda, someone who doesn't understand the culture. You aren't qualified to have an opinion that they should consider. You are qualified to have an opinion.
Lol, you judge I am evil in my heart just from reading about me defending Uganda to have their own choices and not have other people who don't understand what is going on interfere? Enjoy your ban.
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On May 11 2011 12:39 Empyrean wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. I teach philosophy at Oxford and can say with certitude that you're incorrect. See how this works?
I'm a masters protoss, making me more qualified than anyone else in this thread.
But really, credentials don't mean much given the subjective nature and political implications of the topic presented
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On May 11 2011 12:39 TMStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:32 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:31 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:30 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:28 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:27 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:25 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:
[quote]
Oh, that must make you so much better than me.
Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree. We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet. You have the right to an opinion of right or wrong Not only that. I have the right to vote to ban things that I think are wrong. Right, that's an opinion. And if the majority agrees with me, it becomes a right. This is a localized issue. Maybe if you want to talk about persecution of gays on a global basis then your opinion has a weight. Localized in a single country or not, we do have a little thing called the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which as a member of the human species we all have a hand in upholding.
It's arguable this doesn't go against this though. We put people to death here in the United States. Definition of a crime punishable by death isn't concrete, I don't think. Anyway, lets not argue about this. There's no point.
Again, I don't agree with this bill. Just FYI.
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On May 11 2011 12:19 Moonling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:13 Sight- wrote:
Why does it matter if it's a choice? I'm seriously confused by that.
BTW: Autonomy should probably only be upheld if the leaders are acting legitimately. Even if I don't know precisely what a legitimate action is egregious violations of human rights are almost certainly an illegitimate action
AND: Even if a leader was allowed to do what they wanted, gay people are part of their citizenry too so this is a clear violation of the minimum protections that should be allowed to their citizenry. Criminals are part of a citizenry also; and they have very minimum rights. (I am NOT comparing gays or relating them to criminals). My point is that Uganda has a different view of gays then the rest of the world, therefore, as you view a criminal they probably feel the same. (i do not agree with this before i get flamed.)
A) First, I'd dispute whether criminals should have as few rights as they have.
B) I don't care what Uganda thinks? They're wrong.
EDIT: We get that you don't agree with the bill but you're committing the relativist fallacy by "letting it go".
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Let me just put this out here. If your best friend's brother or sister died because of this, could those defending Uganda's right to enact this law still hold the same stance? Or, what if the country that friend's sibling lived in another country that enacted the same kind of law, and they became a victim of it?
I'm not trying to say this aggressively, I'm honestly interested in the responses.
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This whole thread is... so crazy. Sometimes I wonder how people get their priorities so out of whack. Respecting the Ugandan government is important... yes. Respecting religious autonomy is important... yes. But this government is asking those of us who provide aid to simply accept that they will slaughter half a million gays and lesbians (the proposed number in their country). I fully understand that the world is full of atrocities that have desensitized us to this sort of thing, but if it has gotten so bad that we wont even do such small things to make such a huge difference...
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EPT
