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On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation?
I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people.
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On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation?
If the US was in the process of enacting the Anti-Uhh Negative Bill you wouldn't want people signing the petition against it?
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On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation?
Well then...so much for individualism. We have no right to intervene in other nation's decisions but we give them the right who lives and who dies.
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On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people.
I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion and that's perfectly fine, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens.
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On May 11 2011 12:10 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? Well then...so much for individualism. We have no right to intervene in other nation's decisions but we give them the right who lives and who dies.
So... if people think in Indonesia think our death penalty is wrong, we should do what they say?
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On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens.
Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford.
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Why does it matter if it's a choice? I'm seriously confused by that.
BTW: Autonomy should probably only be upheld if the leaders are acting legitimately. Even if I don't know precisely what a legitimate action is egregious violations of human rights are almost certainly an illegitimate action
AND: Even if a leader was allowed to do what they wanted, gay people are part of their citizenry too so this is a clear violation of the minimum protections that should be allowed to their citizenry.
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On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion and that's perfectly fine, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens.
Is there really anything you can do? Like he said its their country they make their own rules and regulations.
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On May 11 2011 12:13 Sight- wrote:
Why does it matter if it's a choice? I'm seriously confused by that.
BTW: Autonomy should probably only be upheld if the leaders are acting legitimately. Even if I don't know precisely what a legitimate action is egregious violations of human rights are almost certainly an illegitimate action
Someone who is legitimately straight can't just "choose" to be gay, some people are just naturally attracted to the same sex; forcing someone who is gay to be straight is like forcing someone who is straight to be gay; it just doesn't work.
EDIT: Hey!
I had no idea that if he edits his post that it changes my quote of I post after he edits; no fair :3
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On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford.
Oh, that must make you so much better than me.
Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic.
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On May 11 2011 12:17 Moonling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion and that's perfectly fine, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Is there really anything you can do? Like he said its their country they make their own rules and regulations.
Right. I agree.
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On May 11 2011 12:13 Sight- wrote:
Why does it matter if it's a choice? I'm seriously confused by that.
BTW: Autonomy should probably only be upheld if the leaders are acting legitimately. Even if I don't know precisely what a legitimate action is egregious violations of human rights are almost certainly an illegitimate action
AND: Even if a leader was allowed to do what they wanted, gay people are part of their citizenry too so this is a clear violation of the minimum protections that should be allowed to their citizenry.
Criminals are part of a citizenry also; and they have very minimum rights. (I am NOT comparing gays or relating them to criminals). My point is that Uganda has a different view of gays then the rest of the world, therefore, as you view a criminal they probably feel the same. (i do not agree with this before i get flamed.)
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On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic.
Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals.
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On May 11 2011 12:19 Moonling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:13 Sight- wrote:
Why does it matter if it's a choice? I'm seriously confused by that.
BTW: Autonomy should probably only be upheld if the leaders are acting legitimately. Even if I don't know precisely what a legitimate action is egregious violations of human rights are almost certainly an illegitimate action
AND: Even if a leader was allowed to do what they wanted, gay people are part of their citizenry too so this is a clear violation of the minimum protections that should be allowed to their citizenry. Criminals are part of a citizenry also; and they have very minimum rights. (I am NOT comparing gays or relating them to criminals). My point is that Uganda has a different view of gays then the rest of the world, therefore, as you view a criminal they probably feel the same. (i do not agree with this before i get flamed.)
Right, the Westernized world doesn't need to become involved in affairs of every nation.
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On May 11 2011 12:19 Moonling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:13 Sight- wrote:
Why does it matter if it's a choice? I'm seriously confused by that.
BTW: Autonomy should probably only be upheld if the leaders are acting legitimately. Even if I don't know precisely what a legitimate action is egregious violations of human rights are almost certainly an illegitimate action
AND: Even if a leader was allowed to do what they wanted, gay people are part of their citizenry too so this is a clear violation of the minimum protections that should be allowed to their citizenry. Criminals are also citizens; and they have very minimum rights. (I am NOT comparing homosexuals or relating them to criminals.) My point is that Uganda has a different view of homosexuals than the rest of the world.
Sorry I had to correct your fail quote.
Just because a country has a different view, doesn't mean shit if the whole world thinks differently. Our world has a different view. Earth > Country.
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On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic.
Democracies don't exist to execute the will of the majority at the expense of minority rights.
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On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals.
Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree.
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On May 11 2011 12:23 platorepublic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:19 Moonling wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 Sight- wrote:
Why does it matter if it's a choice? I'm seriously confused by that.
BTW: Autonomy should probably only be upheld if the leaders are acting legitimately. Even if I don't know precisely what a legitimate action is egregious violations of human rights are almost certainly an illegitimate action
AND: Even if a leader was allowed to do what they wanted, gay people are part of their citizenry too so this is a clear violation of the minimum protections that should be allowed to their citizenry. Criminals are also citizens; and they have very minimum rights. (I am NOT comparing homosexuals or relating them to criminals.) My point is that Uganda has a different view of homosexuals than the rest of the world. Just because a country has a different view, doesn't mean shit if the whole world thinks differently. Our world has a different view. Earth > Country.
This logic justifies colonization of Africa
Uganda in general hates gays. It's integrated into society, and unlike what some TLer's believe, there is simply no way to fiat a mindset shift.
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On May 11 2011 12:23 Elegy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Democracies don't exist to execute the will of the majority at the expense of minority rights.
Very true, sir. In this case then, it seems that their government has failed to protect the rights of the minority.
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On May 11 2011 12:24 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:20 jello_biafra wrote:On May 11 2011 12:18 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:13 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:11 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:09 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:08 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 11 2011 12:06 platorepublic wrote:On May 11 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
I honestly don't really care to participate in affecting the legislature of a country that I do not live in and I don't think anyone really should. It's their country, let them rule it. Doesn't mean I agree with this bill. I don't agree with it, but it's not my business to say what they should do. Uhh Negative, guilty. 1 million people + will disagree with you. That's fine 1 million people out of 7 billion isn't bad. Like I said, I'm of course against a death penalty for gays, but I don't see how it's my business to decide that for Uganda. Does the whole world need to approve every single bill of every nation? I never said 1 million out of 7 billion - don't you dare mislead people. I know, but what I'm saying is there are 7 billion people in the world, not every one of them has to be involved in the decision of a country of 30 million. I guess a petition is just a statement of opinion, but if the petition is actually being considered by the country, they should be wary that most of the opinion is coming from people outside the country. As leaders of a country it is your job to act on the behalf of your citizens. Screw you. Not valid by a far stretch. I take philosophy at Oxford. Oh, that must make you so much better than me. Listen, I do not want people being killed for being gay! That's terrible! But what I'm saying is, in a democratic republic, such as Uganda, the rulers don't rule based on what the world wants, they ideally rule based on what the people of their country want. Now I'm sure most of the people of that country don't want to kill gays, so they should fight for that! Not me! It's really not my business. Just because, in this age of information, we know about everything going on the world, doesn't automatically mean we are responsible for everything that happens in it. It's just too much. That's what America needs to learn and stop interfering (mostly exploiting) so much with other nations. But that's kind of another topic. Watch the program that Starfox posted on the first page of this thread, should give you an idea of the Ugandan population's general attitude towards homosexuals. Well, that is unfortunate. However, it's not my business to say whether their opinion is wrong or right and what they should do about it. Only to disagree or agree.
We as a global citizen have a right to say who is right or wrong. If we think you are wrong, we will kick you out of our lonely planet.
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EPT
