EPTFor every 15 kids i've ever met with "ADD", probably one of them actually has it. The rest are just like everyone else, but if you look hard enough everyone has these "symptoms" on some level.
Autism as a "convenient" diagnosis? - Page 7
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funnybananaman
United States830 Posts
For every 15 kids i've ever met with "ADD", probably one of them actually has it. The rest are just like everyone else, but if you look hard enough everyone has these "symptoms" on some level. | ||
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
There is an amusing article on brain imaging studies that aimed to investigate the brains of normal people for some reason or another. At some point, people realised that what is considered "normal" is actually quite abnormal (Mazziotta et al., 2009). | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
One time I was talking to one of my sisters/own friend's husband, about how their child who I babysitted before was rather out of control. They said he was being very violent and rebellious (to everyone), into pornography or something,and general bad behavior. He was maybe 11 years old at the time. They said when they brought him to metal assesment, they said the doctor diagnosed him with Asperger's. I couldn't believe that, and I told him that. He had hardly any sign of Asperger's in my opinion. If anything, I'd say his condition was sociopathy (psychopathy), not Asperger's. I don't think he took my comments too seriously, because we were with a whole bunch of other people and were drinking alcohol at the time, and I wasn't at all aggressive about it, but I did really think it was strange/stupid. Anyway, that said I had an experience with someone who said he had Asperger's, and I definitely agree it seemed that way. On a VOIP server I regularly visit, this new person joins and starts chatting with me and some others. He oftentimes wouldn't seem to understand people's tone of voice much, or when they are sarcastic or joking, although definitely not all the time (people aren't mindless). He would make jokes sometimes (or at least say they were jokes afterwards), but they seemed pretty not funny, rather basic/obvious, or sometimes like not even jokes at all. With regards to focused interested... it seemed like he was totally enthralled about video (or more so PC) games...he didn't know much about PCs themselves, but had a pretty damn high knowledge of video games it seemed, and even movies and TV shows a bit too maybe (obviously lots of people are video game or especially TV enthusiasts though) | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On May 10 2011 09:48 puckstop101 wrote: I was diagnosed as well with Asperger syndrome when i was younger. In relative terms I was one of the first of the kids diagnosed with it, 1993. In terms of medicine, i was on respidol for about 10 years, but i never liked how i felt on it. It made me feel less intelligent then i actually was, it did help with behavior problems i had, but i felt almost like i was floating sometimes, I don't mean like a high form drugs or anything, but..... man its hard to explain it really. In terms of the 1 to 100 or something, i always hoped that was wrong because I never wanted anyone to go though school or growing up like i did. I defiantly feel like that is a higher estimate then it actually is, Given in a town if 75000 there were only like 25-30 kids with asperger syndrome Edit: A couple people are asking what exactly are the symptoms of Asperger syndrome? It varies form person to person, but for me personnly, I had a very hard time being social with other kids growing up. I've always had problems with body language, even to this day and 'm 21 now. It has gotten better but there are plenty of times where i just miss signs your showing me, or not being able to tell whats going on. this made is very hard is school to making friends as i was constantly annoying people, so i was always an outsider growing up in school. I'm a very anti social person nowadays where i only have a few really good friends that i hang out with. I always been highly motivated in 1-2 subjects and absolute crap in others. I also have big problems with routine changes when i was younger. I'm better now with it, but it does annoy me sometimes. I find your edit to describe what I would usually consider a "nerd or geek", and therefore aply it to a wide range of people I know. May I ask you what do u think what is different in you than a standard geek? I mean, even I can relate with "having a hard time being social with other kids" and having awkward body language sometimes, and i'm sure many people do aswell. Hope I don't come as disrespectful. | ||
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Sleight
2471 Posts
So the average practicing doc is in their late 30s. When they were educated, aka 15 years ago, the criterion upon which one would make a diagnosis of any disorder with a SIGNIFICANT social component was much broader. Their first 5-8 years in the field had little to no practical updates to what they were taught. It was only after they had been set in that we saw a significant boom in education and the definition of what Autism-spectrum disorders entailed (everything from Asberger's to classical autism) is STILL murky. I cannot blame any practicing physician not working in a hospital setting for being out of touch with Austism-spectrum disorders. Without the institutional support of a hospital, I doubt most older IM or Peds docs get to see enough variants to appreciate the range of the autism spectrum. ADD/ADHD on the other hand is a diagnosis of convenience. The rates of which have not increased in non-Western countries for a reason. The combination of increasingly high-pressure situations on children (compare US elementary ed to Europe, for example), decreased parental involvement, increased demand on teachers, and the trouble of behavior modification rather than prescription-management methods of social behaviors makes a title and a scrip WAYYYY easier than dealing with the realization... "Not every kid is a genius, not every kid is well-behaved, this kid needs to be taught a bit about how to behave." While I do not support physical discipline per se...I sure as hell grew up knewing I'd get my ass whooped if I acted out. I didn't know anyone with ADD/ADHD until later in my educational career because before those kids just got spanked/belted/punished more until they fell into line. That is anecdotal, not professional commentary. | ||
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
On May 11 2011 09:34 funnybananaman wrote: ADD and ADHD are the biggest bullshit "disorders" that exist in america, but i don't think autism has reached that level yet, hopefully it won't ever. But studies like this don't help. 1 in 35 is total crap, if somethings that common it doesn't really qualify as a disorder. For every 15 kids i've ever met with "ADD", probably one of them actually has it. The rest are just like everyone else, but if you look hard enough everyone has these "symptoms" on some level. I agree, kids are excitable and energetic by their nature, some moreso than others but *usually* not so much that it warrants a label/disorder imo. Also aspergers could well be the next ADD/ADHD and become ridiculously over diagnosed and loses it's meaning, which really sucks for the legit ones that may not get the attention that they need and what not. | ||
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ninini
Sweden1204 Posts
There's no reason to look deeply into a diagnosis. A diagnosis is never definite since mental disorders are not diseases. You can overcome most mental disorders. I'm pretty sure you can overcome every single mental disorder that wasn't triggered by some form of brain damage. Someone with Social Anxiety could at a later time fit more as someone with Asperger's. A diagnosis doesn't say who you are, it just says what you struggles with overall. Also, I think it's unhealthy to get attached to a specific stereotype. It just makes it hard to break it. You can't "have" Asperger or Autism or whatever. Those are just words that describes groups of ppl that you could qualify under, but these words don't define who you are. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On May 11 2011 10:32 ninini wrote: I doubt asperger's are as "unconsciously tactless" as ppl think. Some ppl just aren't comfortable showing empathy or emotions in general. I always bottle up my emotions and then I burst occasionally when I'm alone. There's no reason to look deeply into a diagnosis. A diagnosis is never definite since mental disorders are not diseases. You can overcome most mental disorders. I'm pretty sure you can overcome every single mental disorder that wasn't triggered by some form of brain damage. Someone with Social Anxiety could at a later time fit more as someone with Asperger's. A diagnosis doesn't say who you are, it just says what you struggles with overall. Also, I think it's unhealthy to get attached to a specific stereotype. It just makes it hard to break it. You can't "have" Asperger or Autism or whatever. Those are just words that describes groups of ppl that you could qualify under, but these words don't define who you are. If you look at the list of symptoms, I have most symptoms of Asperger's, yet not inevitably and not categorically. "Aspies," as the community calls itself, will take the formidable position that "neuronormals" are no more normal than they are, they do not possess a syndrome as such, as it relegates them into an artificial and unworkable category, which undermines their individuality. Still, it makes you wonder why so many Aspies are so fascinated about their own condition. I have never bothered to get a diagnosis, because I have never cared to know. | ||
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TempusDESU
Australia87 Posts
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BarbieHsu
574 Posts
On May 11 2011 09:34 funnybananaman wrote: ADD and ADHD are the biggest bullshit "disorders" that exist in america, but i don't think autism has reached that level yet, hopefully it won't ever. But studies like this don't help. 1 in 35 is total crap, if somethings that common it doesn't really qualify as a disorder. For every 15 kids i've ever met with "ADD", probably one of them actually has it. The rest are just like everyone else, but if you look hard enough everyone has these "symptoms" on some level. I disagree. I think autism has become so fashionable that the bullshit HAS reached that level. Fucking babies. People always looking for someone else to blame than themselves for their condtion or faults. | ||
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Kh0rne
Australia85 Posts
its a sliding scale or spectrum. also Autism & Aspergers are different things. -there is the very lower range which is the people who cant really function in normal society and have low IQ (generally referred to as "special") -there is the lower range where people can function but are a bit "slow" / antisocial -then there is "normal" where most people sit -there is the higher range where people can function but usually a bit antisocial, as a general rule - and then there is the very higher ranged where people cant function but have high IQ, people like the movie "Rainman" so yeah, pretty much everyone has at least some of the checkboxes ticked for "Autism". So the chances that some Doctors & parents are misdiagnosing are probably quite high. I am quite familiar with Aspergers because it runs in my family, I have many traits myself | ||
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:38 TempusDESU wrote: Sorry for the bump, but I thought I should mention that I just used this thread as a big reference for an important psychology presentation. Thanks to everyone who discussed the matter and to Aeres, the OP. It has provided me with an insight into the diagnosis of Autism. Wow, I'm glad I was able to assist you!  | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
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danson
United States689 Posts
On May 10 2011 09:52 Aeres wrote: As a kid, I was far more introverted than everyone else. Pretty much all through grade school, I avoided social contact because I felt I didn't really need it; I was much more at ease just being by myself or with a couple of close friends, talking about relevant subjects, reading books, telling jokes, etc. I guess my social life in grade school was a drastically miniaturized version of your standard Joe Schmoe, in that I conversed normally with the few friends I had (about three or four), but far more often than not, I'd be playing on my DS, playing memory games, solving crossword puzzles, and all that. I did not react well to social stimuli from those I didn't know very well, so I tended to avoid them if at all possible. I was also a gigantic dick to people I disliked, and wasn't afraid to tell them that they were total sacks of shit. Mostly because I'm a blunt kind of person (I tell things like it is, and I despise euphemisms), but that sort of attitude led to other people describing me as strange. so what you are saying is that you are perfectly normal? I am pretty much just like this and by my doctors book ive always been the pinnacle of healthiness, both mentally and physically. Not to belittle the disorder, but I do agree that austims (esp Aspergers), is dramatically over diagnosed. I have personal experience with a number of people suffering from forms of "autism" and at least in two of the cases I cant say that they are just on the other end of the Myers-Briggs test than the doctor who diagnosed them. Im not saying Autism (or AS) is not a legit disorder, but I totally agree with your theory that it is just used as a last resort diagnosis for people when doctors cant figure out whats wrong (if anything). That being said I find it hard to believe you would be considered "full blown" AS based on nothing but your writing. You seem very intuitive and self aware, and above all else skeptical of things, which I have always known (or been told) is one of the areas people with AS lack. ----- eek didnt realise this thread was so old : ( sorry. | ||
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Paperplane
Netherlands1823 Posts
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arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
On May 10 2011 09:27 Aeres wrote: So, TeamLiquid, what it comes down to is this: Do you feel that Asperger's Syndrome, along with other mental disorders such as ADD, are being "overdiagosed" to try and excessively label individuals that may not even have them? I highly doubt a single individual on TL knows. You'd need a large scale study with a random and i.i.d. drawn sample of individuals diagnosed with aspergers and then appose them to the DSM criteria using objective methodology and see the extent of the discrepancy. This then has to be repeated before we can be sure there is any over-diagnosing occuring. | ||
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arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
On September 16 2011 11:53 Kh0rne wrote: what a lot of people don't understand is that Asperger Syndrome is something that EVERYONE has. This is what many mental health professionals claim but it is not necessarily true from a neurological viewpoint. It may be a certain gene that some possess and some don't that causes abnormal brain development, and if this is the case then not everybody has it. Some may have 0 of it. You could perhaps say that "everybody fits into the DSM diagnosis at least a TINY bit", but that's a silly way of approaching it I think as there's biological/neurological causes and reasons for the symptoms, and just because someone may sit on the spectrum a tiny bit does not mean they suffer from the same underlying causes as high-functioning autistics. i.e. everyone has an extent of the symptoms =/= everyone suffers to an extent from high functioning autism. | ||
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nepeta
1872 Posts
The biological/neurological causes you speak of are highly complex interactions within the human being's sub-faculties, they are very hard to pinpoint as is demonstrated by the loose definition currently used by the medical professions. That is not to say that certain underlying conditions of autism cannot be determined, specific unusual and extreme cases being the easiest, but autism and aspergers cover everything from people catatonic due to complete lack of emotion to otherwise normal people not being very talkative because they've had a bad night. Concerning the increase in the established cases of conditions on the asperger syndrome, I think it's a combination of three things: First the improved diagnostic capabilities of modern medicin, secondly the growing tendency to classify non-perfect character traits as disease to absolve the individual of responsibility of his/her imperfections, and thirdly the will to please care-customers by means of the second point and the ability to prescribe available medication. disclaimer: I'm not a medical something, and I vowed to myself to keep out of this kind of discussions but I just can't help it TT PS: In the time it took me to write this you edited your post, gg :p | ||
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