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A Simple Math Problem? - Page 29

Forum Index > General Forum
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Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
April 07 2011 23:13 GMT
#561
On April 08 2011 08:11 Usyless wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 08:09 Ratel wrote:
I am in a pretty crappy university, my last math course that i took was a grade 11 uni level in high school and i knew the right answer right away for this question.
Not sure why people struggling with this.


Your first and last statements may have a common explanans.


Thank you!
SaiyAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States47 Posts
April 07 2011 23:17 GMT
#562
lol, more noobs at math than I'd expect here...
"When I wanna get pumped up, I just think about the American blood that's flowing through my veins, man" -Liquid'Tyler
Enervate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1769 Posts
April 07 2011 23:18 GMT
#563
The answer isn't debatable because of the use of the division sign. If it was a slash, it could be debated, because a horizontal slash divides everything below it, so a vertical slash could arguably be interpreted to divide everything to the right of it. (I still wouldn't interpret it that way, just because my TI89 doesn't, and I'm used to typing in stuff to my TI-89.)

I think most people read the division sign as a slash, though, because I haven't actually used the division sign since like middle school.
MandoRelease
Profile Joined October 2010
France374 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 23:22:08
April 07 2011 23:18 GMT
#564
On April 08 2011 08:04 munchmunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 08:02 Zeke50100 wrote:
On April 08 2011 08:01 munchmunch wrote:
[
Not due to laziness at all, actually. Granted, it would be incorrect to omit the parentheses in many contexts, but in any context where it can be expected to be unambiguous to the reader, it would be recommended to any mathematical writer to drop the parentheses for aesthetic reasons.


Being accustomed to the omission of parentheses doesn't make it right


No, but aesthetics can be a good reason.


Not in anything that does not involves advanced mathematics.
I certainly agree that you sometime need to lower your accuracy when you write advanced mathematical paper in order to make it understandable.

It is not the case for basic math like trigonometry and basically anything put on a non mathematical forum. For these, it's only lazyness because adding parentheses here and there would not make it any less clear, so aesthetics is not always a good reason.
When you play the game of drones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground. Huge IMLosirA fan.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
April 07 2011 23:19 GMT
#565
288, high schooler.

Though honestly, if I didn't see both options in the poll, I might have gotten 2.
:)
munchmunch
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada789 Posts
April 07 2011 23:19 GMT
#566
On April 08 2011 08:12 Zeke50100 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 08:08 munchmunch wrote:
On April 08 2011 08:06 Zeke50100 wrote:
On April 08 2011 08:03 Blisse wrote:
Oh shit. Division isn't commutative. Good game guys. There is no correct answer in this case. Stop following BEDMAS. It was made up by grade school teachers to help you understand the order of operations. It doesn't work in extreme cases because there is no correct way to interpret the equation.

Essentially, 2/3*4 is not the same as (2)(1/3)(4) which it isn't the same as (2/3)(4) which isn't the same as (2)/(3*4). You can't simply convert division into fractional form because the math symbols aren't clear enough. In written form, you interpret the question based on what the symbols show. On one text line, that's impossible to convey without parenthesis.

The best example would be 2/3/4. If you did it (2/3)/4, I haven't specified which / is larger. The computer reads it to the best of its ability. It is limited by computer notation. There is no difference between / and a larger / for a computer, which is why it simply reads it front to end after the regular operations.

The bigger question is then:

Do we treat this as a written, typed or oral question?


The problem is that there IS a way, and ONLY one way, to interpret it correctly. If you follow PEMDAS, you will get the right answer, every single time. The problem is that people don't realize that fractions with multiple terms cannot exist without parenthesis when a "/" is used.


I decided not to tell you to brush up on your reading comprehension in my last reply to avoid being snarky. But now it is unavoidable: put aside your amazing grade school education and read the thread.


What about it? A discussion of how things are communicated to each other, the conventions people are used to, and other topics to which my post holds complete relevance? That's great. You might want some of that amazing grade-school education, by the way. I'll share some with you, if you really want some.


Actually, I think it is my reading comprehension that is suffering. As a reply to Blisse you are perfectly correct, mea culpa.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 23:20:56
April 07 2011 23:19 GMT
#567
This is a problem of poor definition of the problem, based on unclear formulation of the problem.

In general, you always go left to right in order, but, when you post something such as 2(9+3), it can (and usually is) be read as one term: 2*9+2*3 = 24, even if it comes immediately after a division sign. Generally, when it's supposed to be read as separate terms, there is a multiplication symbol used, meaning it should be written as 48/2*(9+3).

Nobody has trouble doing the arithmetic, they simply have trouble figuring out exactly what question you meant to ask.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
OhYess
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada41 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 23:21:42
April 07 2011 23:20 GMT
#568
This is probably one of my favourite threads I've seen. I would definitely say it's 2. As I read that as you would get

48÷2(x)
2(x) takes priority over 48/2 so you would get 48÷24

Otherwise the division sign would denote
48
-------
2(9+3)
garbanzo
Profile Joined October 2009
United States4046 Posts
April 07 2011 23:20 GMT
#569
On April 08 2011 08:17 SaiyAN wrote:
lol, more noobs at math than I'd expect here...

Hmm...that's the conclusion you get from reading all 29 pages, eh?

On April 08 2011 08:18 Enervate wrote:
The answer isn't debatable because of the use of the division sign. If it was a slash, it could be debated, because a horizontal slash divides everything below it, so a vertical slash could arguably be interpreted to divide everything to the right of it. (I still wouldn't interpret it that way, just because my TI89 doesn't, and I'm used to typing in stuff to my TI-89.)

I think most people read the division sign as a slash, though, because I haven't actually used the division sign since like middle school.

I don't think that's true. Both symbols are exactly equivalent. One is just more archaic.
Even during difficult times, when I sat down to play the game, there were times where it felt like god has descended down and played [for me].
MajorityofOne
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2506 Posts
April 07 2011 23:20 GMT
#570
Woah woah woah

Why is 2*(whatever) not 2(whatever)? They're just different notations of the same thing, no? Go easy on me, I've not math experience above the high school level. I don't understand why most people are voting for 1/(2*x) >.>
Chriamon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States886 Posts
April 07 2011 23:21 GMT
#571
On April 08 2011 05:34 motbob wrote:
Oh shit, I voted 2 and then realized it was 288.

This question is hard because it tempts you to group the 2(9+3) together because of the parentheses.

But you DO group it together. Wouldn't you distribute the 2 as the first step, then the 18 + 6 would be added together, and then 48/24?
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/274906/1/Blaze/
MajorityofOne
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2506 Posts
April 07 2011 23:21 GMT
#572
On April 08 2011 08:20 OhYess wrote:
This is probably one of my favourite threads I've seen. I would definitely say it's 2. As I read that as you would get

48÷2(x)
2(x) takes priority over 48/2 so you would get 48÷24

Otherwise the division sign would denote
48
-------
2(9+3)


Why does the later multiplication take precedence over the prior division?!! AHHHHHHH
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
April 07 2011 23:21 GMT
#573
Its 288, but no one writes math like that.
YejinYejin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1053 Posts
April 07 2011 23:22 GMT
#574
Guys, you all are talking about PEDMAS or BEDMAS. I actually learned it as PEMDAS.

Also, in these two particular situations, I'd refrain from interpreting the terms either way. If someone wrote 1/2x, I'd ask for clarification, or I'd ask for them to use Latex markup, because honestly, even if one of the two is "right," the person who wrote it could easily mean either one.
안지호
garbanzo
Profile Joined October 2009
United States4046 Posts
April 07 2011 23:23 GMT
#575
On April 08 2011 08:20 MajorityofOne wrote:
Woah woah woah

Why is 2*(whatever) not 2(whatever)? They're just different notations of the same thing, no? Go easy on me, I've not math experience above the high school level. I don't understand why most people are voting for 1/(2*x) >.>

They are the same. The issue is when you have 1/2*(a+b) vs. 1/2(a+b). Common convention can lead you think that 1/2(a+b)=1/(2a+2b).
Even during difficult times, when I sat down to play the game, there were times where it felt like god has descended down and played [for me].
OhYess
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada41 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 23:24:11
April 07 2011 23:23 GMT
#576
On April 08 2011 08:21 MajorityofOne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 08:20 OhYess wrote:
This is probably one of my favourite threads I've seen. I would definitely say it's 2. As I read that as you would get

48÷2(x)
2(x) takes priority over 48/2 so you would get 48÷24

Otherwise the division sign would denote
48
-------
2(9+3)


Why does the later multiplication take precedence over the prior division?!! AHHHHHHH



Because the division sign means its under the rest as in
48
----
2(9+3)
billyX333
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1360 Posts
April 07 2011 23:23 GMT
#577
On April 08 2011 08:21 Chriamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 05:34 motbob wrote:
Oh shit, I voted 2 and then realized it was 288.

This question is hard because it tempts you to group the 2(9+3) together because of the parentheses.

But you DO group it together. Wouldn't you distribute the 2 as the first step, then the 18 + 6 would be added together, and then 48/24?

you distribute 48/2 not 2
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 23:25:31
April 07 2011 23:23 GMT
#578
On April 08 2011 08:20 MajorityofOne wrote:
Woah woah woah

Why is 2*(whatever) not 2(whatever)? They're just different notations of the same thing, no? Go easy on me, I've not math experience above the high school level. I don't understand why most people are voting for 1/(2*x) >.>


2x is not a single unit. It is exactly identical to 2*x, so yes, you would be right ^_^

EDIT: Whoops, said term at first, which is wrong.
RoyalCheese
Profile Joined May 2010
Czech Republic745 Posts
April 07 2011 23:24 GMT
#579
On April 08 2011 08:20 MajorityofOne wrote:
Woah woah woah

Why is 2*(whatever) not 2(whatever)? They're just different notations of the same thing, no? Go easy on me, I've not math experience above the high school level. I don't understand why most people are voting for 1/(2*x) >.>


It is, generally. But somebody (don't remember name now, sorry) was arguing that in science 2x is usually considered to be a "unbreakable" symbol, so to speak where 3/2x would actually mean 3/(2x), which i would agree with.
Kennigit: "Chill was once able to retire really young, but decided to donate his entire salary TO SUPPORT ESPORTS"
N3rV[Green]
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1935 Posts
April 07 2011 23:24 GMT
#580
1/2x is simply "one half x" when said outloud. This translates to (1/2)*x, but in this case the parentheses are redundant since the equation is evaluated from left to right.

This is not up for debate.
Never fear the darkness, Bran. The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong.
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