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A Simple Math Problem? - Page 15

Forum Index > General Forum
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hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 21:50:37
April 07 2011 21:48 GMT
#281
If I saw it written on a chalkboard I wouldn't hesitate for a second, but when I see it written online I get doubts about the writer's intent. If you assume that someone asking for math advice knows how to express divisions properly then you're going to misread their intentions half the time.

On April 08 2011 06:46 Unhallowed wrote:
This is so far from university math... it is just the application of that BEDMAS rule.
I believe this was taught to me in elementary school.


What the hell is up with giving everything in math stupid names over in NA? I don't get it. So many named rules for everything, it just seems to promote memorization over understanding.
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
April 07 2011 21:48 GMT
#282
On April 08 2011 06:48 JeeJee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 06:47 JinDesu wrote:
On April 08 2011 06:43 JeeJee wrote:
On April 08 2011 06:41 Golgotha wrote:
On April 08 2011 06:16 micronesia wrote:
48÷2(9+3)

This is a mathematical expression that severs no purpose other than to test if you truly understand how order of operations work. Technically the answer is 288, but practically if you see this written 'in the field' "48/2(9+3)" odds are pretty good that they meant "48 / [2(9+3)]."

This thread/poll serves little purpose other than to punish people who either A) don't remember their math or B) allow their experience with math rather than Pemdas lesson in primary/secondary school to dictate how they do math. It also is a place for people to go "haha look at that thread" :-/

I hate ambiguous mathematical expressions (whether it be because of technical ambiguity or laziness on the part of the person who wrote it) and hate this thread.

I'm closing this dumb poll thread. If anyone still does not understand it you can pm me. If anyone uses this as an excuse to troll me I'll just revoke your pm privileges lol

Chill Edit: Reopened. I don't see why you would close it, it's an interesting trick


micronesia....you cant just go and randomly create brackets when that completely changes the given problem. There is nothing ambiguous about it. I am worried about our public education system now ^^



he's right

the question in OP is technically 288, but technicalities are irrelevant
what's 1/2x to you?
if you say 288, you should also say 1/2x = 2/x
and technically, yes, it's 2/x
but really, it's 1/(2x) in real world

that said, i'm sad that 2 is such a popular answer. people should be aware of tricks and make no assumptions and vote 288 ;(

edit: lol sniped by micronesia


(1/2)*5 does not equal 2/5. You mean x/2.


yeah i know i edited that a while back. typo =)


Sorry, lemme go nuke myself
Yargh
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
April 07 2011 21:48 GMT
#283
On April 08 2011 06:44 JinDesu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 06:40 MasterOfChaos wrote:

+ Show Spoiler +
This one is interesting. Wolfram alpha interprets it as 1/(2*x), binding the omitted multiplication sign stronger to the variable x. But if you insist on left-to-right evaluation you get (1/2)*x
.


Then Wolfram looks at how the / sign works is wrong.

One divided by two times x.

That's all it is.

Or... that's how its done in an actual classroom.
cloudica
Profile Joined May 2009
England43 Posts
April 07 2011 21:49 GMT
#284
On April 08 2011 06:40 ilbh wrote:
how can someone get to 2? you just read it from left to the right...

48÷(2(9+3))

Some programming languages (e.g. K) read from right-to-left, so you could get 2

And I think some old C compilers do right-to-left evaluation too.
x-Catalyst
Profile Joined August 2010
United States921 Posts
April 07 2011 21:49 GMT
#285
After reading some of the posts in this thread, I almost want to say people have learned math and the order of operations differently. But I agree, I think that depending on how you do the problem (refer to my first statement) you could get either answer.
chestnutman
Profile Joined March 2011
176 Posts
April 07 2011 21:50 GMT
#286
People saying the question is ambiguous are right. Just using basic algebra rules you get 288. However in college multiplication without a symbol often assumes the multiplication in a bracket, resulting in this.
Marradron
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands1586 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 21:52:04
April 07 2011 21:51 GMT
#287
1/2x = 1/(2x) according to wolfram

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48/2(x)

1/2(x) = (1/2)*x

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48/2x

yeahhhh...... so even wolfram interpets 2x different as 2(x). 2x is strong wile 2(x) isnt.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12118 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 21:56:14
April 07 2011 21:51 GMT
#288
On April 08 2011 06:46 Unhallowed wrote:
This is so far from university math... it is just the application of that BEDMAS rule.
I believe this was taught to me in elementary school.


The new polls are to test this. If you vote 2 based on university experience overriding the rule or not.

In my case I had already gone past the rule in High School and assumed the person was lazy.
RoyalCheese
Profile Joined May 2010
Czech Republic745 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 21:52:58
April 07 2011 21:51 GMT
#289
I voted 2...after thinking about it for a while i admit i was technically wrong. For me x(y+z) usually means simplification of (xy+xz)...therefore i interpreted 48÷2(9+3) as 48 / (2*9+3*2) = 48 / 24 = 2. I agree it's technically wrong. I guess. But like micronesia said:
"This thread/poll serves little purpose other than to punish people who either A) don't remember their math or B) allow their experience with math rather than Pemdas lesson in primary/secondary school to dictate how they do math. It also is a place for people to go "haha look at that thread" :-/"

edit:
i still feel like x(y) should have higher priority then x/y...but meh
Kennigit: "Chill was once able to retire really young, but decided to donate his entire salary TO SUPPORT ESPORTS"
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
April 07 2011 21:51 GMT
#290
Clever poll. But I'm pretty sure it's 288 and 1/(2x).
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
Coolbeans
Profile Joined April 2010
Ireland162 Posts
April 07 2011 21:51 GMT
#291
On April 08 2011 06:43 staplestf2 wrote:
are people just voting 2 too troll us?



How about you stop for a sec and think why people are getting 2. I for answered 2 initially because for me when I see 1/2n I assume it means 1/(2n) as im sure most people who do lots of this crap in uni see it as. The question is just tricky cos NOBODY writes an equation like that
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
April 07 2011 21:51 GMT
#292
On April 08 2011 06:48 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 06:44 JinDesu wrote:
On April 08 2011 06:40 MasterOfChaos wrote:

+ Show Spoiler +
This one is interesting. Wolfram alpha interprets it as 1/(2*x), binding the omitted multiplication sign stronger to the variable x. But if you insist on left-to-right evaluation you get (1/2)*x
.


Then Wolfram looks at how the / sign works is wrong.

One divided by two times x.

That's all it is.

Or... that's how its done in an actual classroom.


If that's the case, then you are being taught wrong. I said it before, it's not a notation issue. It's how people are being taught to interpret it.

48 ÷ 2 x 12 = 48 x (1/2) x 12 = (48/2) x 12
Yargh
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
April 07 2011 21:51 GMT
#293
This is why there's an equation tool on Microsoft Word, rather than having people resort to using one line to express equations.

1/2x can be interpreted as (1/2)x or 1/(2x).

This is also why we have three levels of parenthesis. ( { [ ( ) ] } )
There is no one like you in the universe.
eLiE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada1039 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 21:54:53
April 07 2011 21:51 GMT
#294
BEDMAS!!!
No uni courses necessary here!


On April 08 2011 06:48 hugman wrote:
If I saw it written on a chalkboard I wouldn't hesitate for a second, but when I see it written online I get doubts about the writer's intent. If you assume that someone asking for math advice knows how to express divisions properly then you're going to misread their intentions half the time.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 06:46 Unhallowed wrote:
This is so far from university math... it is just the application of that BEDMAS rule.
I believe this was taught to me in elementary school.


What the hell is up with giving everything in math stupid names over in NA? I don't get it. So many named rules for everything, it just seems to promote memorization over understanding.


lol, what are you talking about? Anagrams are convenient and there's nothing to understand here; you just have to know the order of operations. Brackets, Exponents, Division/Multiplication, Addition/Subtraction. Easy! No need to be an angry face.
How's the weather down there?
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
April 07 2011 21:52 GMT
#295
On April 08 2011 06:51 MangoTango wrote:
Clever poll. But I'm pretty sure it's 288 and 1/(2x).


care to elaborate why you're taking completely different approaches to essentially the same equation?
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
NicksonReyes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Philippines4431 Posts
April 07 2011 21:53 GMT
#296
On April 08 2011 06:47 Blisse wrote:
People get it wrong because math is not meant to be written in a single line.

^This. I voted 2.
"Start yo" -FlaSh
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
April 07 2011 21:53 GMT
#297
This is why you write math in fractions and not in one line.
Always smile~
ShamTao
Profile Joined September 2010
United States419 Posts
April 07 2011 21:54 GMT
#298
People aren't dumb because they can't do math, they just interpreted the question wrong. It's not a test of math skill it's a test of how people read directions and interpret the problem- seriously, the accusations of some people on this forum is pretty appalling. People are SO quick to pass judgment if it makes them look good in their own mind.
In the game of drones, you win or you die!
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 02:51:45
April 07 2011 21:54 GMT
#299
I would never write something that potentially misleading to begin with. ... I'm agreeing with micronesia that the only reason you'd ever write the expression in the OP to begin with is to try to confuse someone. I really don't see a practical use for purposely trying to confuse someone with mathematics.

I didn't vote in either poll because honestly I can see someone writing the expression in the OP and meaning for it to equal either 2 or 288 (or for 1/2x to mean either x/2 or 1/(2x)).

Note for late readers: This was edited several hours after posting to remove the word "ambiguous" because it became abundantly clear that I was not being as precise with my language as I should have been.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3503 Posts
April 07 2011 21:54 GMT
#300
i actually picked 288 but i read 1/2x otherwise logic would have you write x/2. But i do see the sense of your question, 1/2x is a common abuse of the notation 1/(2x)
Horang2 fan
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