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A Simple Math Problem? - Page 16

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Raysalis
Profile Joined July 2010
Malaysia1034 Posts
April 07 2011 21:54 GMT
#301
On April 08 2011 06:45 MasterOfChaos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 06:43 StarStruck wrote:
You just had to re-open this thread. Didn't you?

I think for now on, all contests that require you to do a skill testing question in order to win should use this question (not like they don't anyway!). Ha.

I didn't (and can't) open a thread.

I thought that poll is interesting because I don't think it's a question of skill but a question of convention. And the conventions you're exposed to at school can differ from those you're exposed to at university.



Although this also means that professors and grad student are lazy and sometimes do not write their equations in the most correct from ^^. Kind of a case of experience breed complacency :p
:)
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
April 07 2011 21:55 GMT
#302
On April 08 2011 06:45 MasterOfChaos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 06:43 StarStruck wrote:
You just had to re-open this thread. Didn't you?

I think for now on, all contests that require you to do a skill testing question in order to win should use this question (not like they don't anyway!). Ha.

I didn't (and can't) open a thread.

I thought that poll is interesting because I don't think it's a question of skill but a question of convention. And the conventions you're exposed to at school can differ from those you're exposed to at university.



Yeah, I edited it. x-x

My bad.
billyX333
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1360 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 21:56:55
April 07 2011 21:55 GMT
#303
On April 08 2011 06:50 chestnutman wrote:
People saying the question is ambiguous are right. Just using basic algebra rules you get 288. However in college multiplication without a symbol often assumes the multiplication in a bracket, resulting in this.

wolfram binds variables to a coefficient if there are no brackets
thats why it interprets 1/2x as 1/(2x) instead of x/2

i think its funny how people who chose 2 are now belittling those who chose 288? sick ego wars
bRuTaL!!
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland588 Posts
April 07 2011 21:55 GMT
#304
Id argue that the ones that answered 288 and mock someone who would answer 2 are the ones with least experience in math. That actually helps in this case .
Tasteless: "What was it Hans Solo was frozen in? Kryptonite?" Artosis: "Lol, no. Thats the stuff that hurts Batman."
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2749 Posts
April 07 2011 21:55 GMT
#305
This is genius: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48/2a, a=(9+3)
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
April 07 2011 21:56 GMT
#306
On April 08 2011 06:54 crate wrote:
I would never write something that potentially ambiguous to begin with. ... I'm agreeing with micronesia that the only reason you'd ever write the expression in the OP to begin with is to try to confuse someone. I really don't see a practical use for purposely trying to confuse someone with mathematics.

I didn't vote in either poll because honestly I can see either answer being correct for either expression and it's a coinflip which one I'd pick on any given day. When I use Mathematica to try to write 1/(2x) I write it with the extra parentheses so I don't confuse myself, even though it interprets "1/2x" as "1/(2x)"


This is, as several other people said before, because fractions don't work so well in a single line.

1
2x

½ x
Yargh
Maginor
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway505 Posts
April 07 2011 21:56 GMT
#307
The expression is also very inelegantly written, as if it is intended to make people read it wrong. In all math or scientific papers, you will order the subexpressions to have the division sign last, or you will make things clear using parantheses.

It's like writing "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana". It is correct, but everybody will interpret it wrong the first time, so it's not good style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_flies_like_an_arrow._Fruit_flies_like_a_banana.
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
April 07 2011 21:56 GMT
#308
oh yeah and for the record i initially read this as 2, but when picking the answer, i picked 288, because 288 is technically correct and it's always safe to tread on the side of technicalities

it's a good thing i've learned from 4 years of uni.. when you're "technically" right, you're right. but when you're "conventionally" right, the prof can be a dick and tell you to screw off
^_^
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
YokaY
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States108 Posts
April 07 2011 21:57 GMT
#309
On April 08 2011 06:52 JeeJee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 06:51 MangoTango wrote:
Clever poll. But I'm pretty sure it's 288 and 1/(2x).


care to elaborate why you're taking completely different approaches to essentially the same equation?

I don't think it's wrong to view it that way. The symbols used are pretty important to take away the ambiguity.

One case of 48÷2(9+3)= used ÷ instead of / with no variable. It's pretty clear the aim of the problem is to focus on order of operations.

The second case is way more ambiguous, but I'd say in college it was more common to interpret that as 1/(2x) since the / creates some kind of up and down illusion.
Marradron
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands1586 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 21:59:05
April 07 2011 21:57 GMT
#310
On April 08 2011 06:55 Navane wrote:
This is genius: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48/2a, a=(9+3)


http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48/2(a), a=(9+3)

And now the answer is different. It's just the way wolfram works.

or like

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48/2(9+3)
exeexe
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Denmark937 Posts
April 07 2011 21:59 GMT
#311
i did this:
48÷2(9+3)=
24(9+3) =
216 + 72 =

well that cant be 2 so i picked the other result.

Is that wrong?
And never forget, its always easier to throw a bomb downstairs than up. - George Orwell
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
April 07 2011 22:00 GMT
#312
On April 08 2011 06:52 JeeJee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 06:51 MangoTango wrote:
Clever poll. But I'm pretty sure it's 288 and 1/(2x).


care to elaborate why you're taking completely different approaches to essentially the same equation?

This is why I think the poll results would be different if one was unable to see the poll results or the thread beyond the OP before participating in the poll.
nalgene
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada2153 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 22:02:06
April 07 2011 22:00 GMT
#313
If it was written with
48 / (2(9+3)), it'd be 48 / (2(12)) = 48 / (24)
Year 2500 Greater Israel ( Bahrain, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen )
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
April 07 2011 22:00 GMT
#314
On April 08 2011 06:59 exeexe wrote:
i did this:
48÷2(9+3)=
24(9+3) =
216 + 72 =

well that cant be 2 so i picked the other result.

Is that wrong?


That's fine, although using the distributive law is a little overkill. That is how this question was meant to be interpreted.
Yargh
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
April 07 2011 22:00 GMT
#315
On April 08 2011 06:57 YokaY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 06:52 JeeJee wrote:
On April 08 2011 06:51 MangoTango wrote:
Clever poll. But I'm pretty sure it's 288 and 1/(2x).


care to elaborate why you're taking completely different approaches to essentially the same equation?

I don't think it's wrong to view it that way. The symbols used are pretty important to take away the ambiguity.

One case of 48÷2(9+3)= used ÷ instead of / with no variable. It's pretty clear the aim of the problem is to focus on order of operations.

The second case is way more ambiguous, but I'd say in college it was more common to interpret that as 1/(2x) since the / creates some kind of up and down illusion.


i'm not saying either one is wrong, i'm just saying that in case 1, he's prioritizing divison over implied multiplication whereas in case 2, he is not, and am just interested in what causes that
surely changing ÷ to / couldn't have been it, but maybe it was. hence i would like to hear his reasoning ^^
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
Retgery
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1229 Posts
April 07 2011 22:01 GMT
#316
I see the mistake now, some people see it as (48 )/2 (9+3) and if 48÷2 is seen as a fraction then the answer comes out to 288, but what some (me included) saw was 48÷[2(9+3)] comes out to 2. This question is a bitch...






Fall down 7 times, stand up 8.
TurpinOS
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada1223 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 22:06:14
April 07 2011 22:02 GMT
#317
I understand how people are saying that this is misleading, but all in all, 1/2x = (1/2)*x

Yes the simplification of 1/2x = 1/(2x) is very often used in classes but it doesnt change the fact that its not entirely correct.

The answer is 288, the fact that its often used differently in classes doesnt change the answer.

edit : I think what really tips the problem to be 288 is the use of the ÷ sign
http://eve.znaor.hr/pimpmydomi/
NrG.Bamboo
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2756 Posts
April 07 2011 22:02 GMT
#318
I guess I should have payed more attention at grade 5-6 lol.
I need to protect all your life you can enjoy the vibrant life of your battery
brobear
Profile Joined January 2010
United States101 Posts
April 07 2011 22:02 GMT
#319
On April 08 2011 05:50 Tschis wrote:
It could be both.

Depends on the writing, really

You could see it as
(48 ÷ 2) * (9 + 3) = 288
or
(48) ÷ (2 * (9 + 3)) = 2

if you just write 48÷2(9+3) you can't really be sure of which you want, in my opinion it's a bad formatted question


Edit:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 05:49 koreasilver wrote:
In standard algebraic notation the 2 in 2(9+3) is prioritized over the 48/2.

In 48/2(n+6) it would always go 48/(2n+12), not 24(n+6).


This.

//tx



Can't be both, according to Order of Operations.

You can't see it as (48) ÷ (2 * (9 + 3)) = 2, since the parenthesis you've created does not exist in the original problem.

Also, "in standard algebraic notation", the 2 in the 2(9+3) isn't prioritized over the 48/2...

48/2*(n+6) does not equal 48/(2n+12)...

From Standard algebraic order of operations, it becomes (48/2)*(n+6). From left to right.
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 22:06:47
April 07 2011 22:02 GMT
#320
The problem here is obviously that people are using PEMDAS instead of the superior PEDMAS. Also, several other poor souls are confused enough to be using BEMDAS or BEDMAS, while failing to realize in fact that there are no brackets in mathematics.

Please Excuse Dear My Aunt Sally, people! DUH!
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
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