On March 10 2016 04:11 LegalLord wrote: Sure, if you evaluate Assad by Western standards you will find him to be a brutal tyrant that should not exist.
By MidEast standards, however, he is a dictator that is not great but that brings stability. Given that every other country in the MidEast that "overthrew" its dictator (i.e. the US did it for them) turned into a black hole (Libya, Egypt, Iraq). For the MidEast, stability plus oppression is better than the alternative.
We overthrew Mubarak? I kinda thought we stood there awkwardly not sure whether or not to look.
On March 10 2016 08:03 LegalLord wrote: Assad isn't great, but before the world decided to start meddling in Syria it was at the very least stable.
Pretty sure it was already pretty fucked up by the time we started doing jack shit beyond saying "oh the horror."
On March 10 2016 08:03 LegalLord wrote: Assad isn't great, but before the world decided to start meddling in Syria it was at the very least stable.
You are correct that dictatorship is inherently unstable. Problem is, so is Middle East society in every country I've ever seen. It's the best option among bad choices.
Except that every middle east country you're referring to has a dictator. Iran did quite okay as a democracy until the US started meddling and putting a corrupt shah back in power after the people had gotten rid of him. Now they have a semi-democracy: the people get to choose the middle managers from a pool pre-selected by upper management.
Iraq's fledgeling democracy may or may not do okay once ISIS is quashed. They'll definitely have to figure out how the whole sharing of power will work between rivalling ideologies.
Israel has a democracy and is doing just fine as long as you're not a Palestinean. Palestina has a democracy in name only, because they have a government in name only.
Lebanon was doing fine until it got swamped by 2 million refugees, and ISIS and Hezbollah fighting flowed over the border too for good measure.
Tunisia´s fledgeling democracy (not M.E. but figured I'd include it) is doing okay.
Nowhere else has a democracy or has had a real go at one. Egypt had a very brief attempt before the democratically chosen leader tried to grab too much power and got deposed by the military who only wanted to return to the status quo of repressing the populace.
So based on what evidence do you claim democracy doesn't work. At best you could say that it is untried.
WASHINGTON – President Obama believes that Saudi Arabia, one of America’s most important allies in the Middle East, needs to learn to “share” the region with its archenemy, Iran, and that both countries are guilty of fueling proxy wars in Syria, Iraq and Yemen.
In a series of interviews with the Atlantic magazine published Thursday, Obama said a number of U.S. allies in the Persian Gulf — as well as in Europe — were “free riders,” eager to drag the United States into grinding sectarian conflicts that sometimes had little to do with U.S. interests. He showed little sympathy for the Saudis, who have been threatened by the nuclear deal Obama reached with Iran.
“There’s a playbook in Washington that presidents are supposed to follow,” Obama said. “And the playbook prescribes responses to different events, and these responses tend to be militarized responses.” This consensus, the president continued, can lead to bad decisions. “In the midst of an international challenge like Syria,” he said, “you are judged harshly if you don’t follow the playbook, even if there are good reasons.”
Although Obama’s tone was introspective, he engaged in little second-guessing. He dismissed the argument that his failure to enforce the red line in Syria, or his broader reticence about using military force, had emboldened Russia. Putin, he noted, invaded Georgia in 2008 during the presidency of George W. Bush, even though the U.S. had more than 100,000 troops deployed in Iraq.
Obama also said that his support of the NATO military intervention in Libya had been a “mistake,” driven in part by his erroneous belief that Britain and France would bear more of the burden of the operation. He defended his refusal not to enforce his own red line against Syria’s president, Bashar Assad, even though Vice President Joe Biden argued internally, the magazine reported, that “big nations don’t bluff.”
The president disputed criticism that he should have done more to resist the aggression of President Vladimir Putin of Russia in Ukraine. As a neighbor of Russia, Obama said, Ukraine was always going to matter more to Putin than to the U.S. This meant that in any confrontation between Moscow and the West, Russia was going to maintain “escalatory dominance” over its former satellite state.
“The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-NATO country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do,” he said. “This is an example of where we have to be very clear about what our core interests are and what we are willing to go to war for.”
On March 10 2016 08:08 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: The world didn't meddle in Syria. It imploded from the inside out.
Wow, the ignorance (arrogance?) is breathtaking. To come to that conclusion you have to be pretty unformed...
I was watching reports coming in live on march 15 2011, when Assad's incompetent security forces had the stupidity to shoot at unarmed protesters. You believe it wasn't Syrians but they were foreigners hired by Israel? Just like their justice minister back then said?
For the record, Assad has flip flopped on this issue long ago. Even he doesn't deny it was Syrians themselves starting it all. When you say this, you outdo Assad in sheer propaganda. Assad thinks he loses credibility among his supporters when he says what you say. But you are fine with it. Figures.
You also believed Gaddafi when he said it was drugged up teenagers and Al Quada that wanted to overthrow him?
Why doesn't this guy get a warning? I get warnings for being nice while being informed. He gets none for doing the opposite on both accounts?
It actually took IS (and Russia, US, EU, Iran, Hezbollah) a long time before they finally went to Syria and establish a presence there. Only after they did that, got some support, they were able to move back into Iraq and take Mosul.
On March 09 2016 22:39 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The designation is for the rebels that primarily fight against the Assad regime/ Syrian Government for idealogical political reasons, not "Islamic" reasons. There's not many areas they control now since the Syrain government colluded with ISIS to destroy them, but who exactly do you think the ceasefire concerns? Would you rather call them freedom rebels?
Everyone in the region has probably colluded with ISIS in some way.
The ISIS oil trade boomed because authorities in the region have turned a blind eye to smuggling. The smuggling routes from ISIS-controlled Iraq to Turkey, Jordan, Iran, Kurdistan (in Northern Iraq), Syria have largely gone untouched. The only one that has really received attention is the route into Turkey, which Russia has reportedly been disrupting for the last 6 months. It was being sold at half its market value! Many unscrupulous businessmen made huge margins in this sort of trading.
I think from the perspective of the Syrian government, they have to label any armed opposition as a 'terrorist' although not necessarily religiously extremist (terrorism is a tactic, not an ideology). As far as they are concerned, they are the legitimate government and representative of Syria. Giving any legitimacy to armed opposition would be a sign of weakness. To save face, they publicly denounce all armed opposition groups as terrorists but I'm sure in practice they make distinctions. I highly doubt the Syrian government will send delegates into Raqqa to launch a local reconcillation initiative with ISIS fighters to encourage them to give up their arms and join the Syrian army.
On March 11 2016 22:18 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: They don't have to send representatives. Assad and IS already have a mutual understanding; they both fight everyone else and leave each other alone.
This is a massive claim. Are you suggesting that the Syrian army & allies and ISIS have never attacked each other?
The head of the Syrian opposition says he’s going to Geneva for the next round of U.S.-Russian-sponsored peace talks Monday, even though the opposition rejects any future role for President Bashar al-Assad, whose regime will be the other party in the talks.
Riyad Hijab, the Syrian former prime minister who heads the opposition steering group known as the “High Negotiations Committee” outlined his positions in a telephone interview Friday. His key demand is a formula that removes Assad from power soon and instead gives authority to a transitional body. This is precisely the issue the U.S. and Russia had hoped to finesse by deferring the question of Assad’s future until after elections take place, in theory 18 months from now.
“We want a transitional body with full authority,” Hijab insisted. He said this would be his message to Staffan de Mistura, the U.N.’s special envoy for Syria, when the negotiations convene in Geneva Monday. The Geneva meeting will feature what are known as “proximity talks,” with the two sides talking separately to the mediator, but not to each other.
On March 11 2016 22:18 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: They don't have to send representatives. Assad and IS already have a mutual understanding; they both fight everyone else and leave each other alone.
This is a massive claim. Are you suggesting that the Syrian army & allies and ISIS have never attacked each other?
They have in the past and probably will when they run into each other.
Maybe it has changed against currently with the Russian influence. But this is how it was like a few months ago, based from the info that was trickling out.
And it makes sense for both of them.
It is not a massive claim. You expect things like this to happen. You never played a FFA on Hunters? I mean, this war is crazy. There's like 6 sides all attacking everyone else.
It's not a massive claim. It was a fact until russians took over syrian regime and army.
Comes from 2014:
If we look through the IHS JTIC database for this year, we see that just six per cent of 982 Syrian counterterrorism operations targeted the Islamic State and only 13 per cent of 923 Islamic State attacks in Syria targeted Syrian security forces," said Matthew Henman, manager of IHS JTIC.
Putinbots and assad whitewashers will show up and tell us how isis and regime were not close to each other as if that's a logical reason.
On March 10 2016 04:11 LegalLord wrote: Sure, if you evaluate Assad by Western standards you will find him to be a brutal tyrant that should not exist.
By MidEast standards, however, he is a dictator that is not great but that brings stability. Given that every other country in the MidEast that "overthrew" its dictator (i.e. the US did it for them) turned into a black hole (Libya, Egypt, Iraq). For the MidEast, stability plus oppression is better than the alternative.
lmaoo his country is the worst compared to libya, iraq and egypt. half of his men population is either fleed or dead, his biggest cities are completely destroyed by his own hands and isis took over a good percantage of his country, his army lacks man-power badly that russians and iran proxies fight for him. his government and central bank is proven to buy isis oil and money laundry, he is co-operating with other terrorist groups like hezbollah and iranian generals took over his remaining army. kurds declared their autonomy and they wont be giving those lands back. assad understood arabs and turkmens will do the same and he made russians kill them all. how evil you can be that you know russians bombed down a hospital full of your civilians and you remain silent. he is no different than baghdadi, oh wait, baghdadi killed less people.
And you people still show up and say there is no moderate group in syria. LOL. Al Nusra is 100 times moderate than Assad itself. Assad is the evil itself, isis is lesser evil, i dont know, al qaeda is lesser evil but im pretty sure its not the regime.
More than 21,000 people were killed in the Syria conflict in 2015, most of them civilians, according to the Syrian Network for Human Rights, the Middle East Monitor reported. The report indicated the Islamic State group, also known as ISIS, has proved less deadly than the Syrian government this year; the regime of
President Bashar Assad has been responsible for 75 percent of the casualties, according to the report.
Of the 15,748 people reported killed by government forces, a vast majority, 12,044, were civilians. Thirty-eight percent of civilian casualties were women and children, the human rights group said. For comparison,
ISIS was reportedly responsible for the deaths of 2,098 people, which included 1,366 civilians, while Nusra Front, an al Qaeda affiliate in Syria, was responsible for at least 167 deaths, including 89 civilians.
The Syrian conflict spiraled into a full-blown civil war in 2011, after a popular uprising turned violent and opposition groups ousted government forces from areas under their control.
The Syrian conflict has claimed the lives of some 250,000 people,
according to the U.N., and more than
half of the country’s population of 22 million has been displaced. Millions have fled overseas.
In September, Russian forces began a military campaign in Syria to bolster the embattled leader Assad. Those strikes have killed
849 civilians, including 199 children and 109 women,
the report said. Critics of Russian intervention in Syria have alleged that the Russian military has targeted civilian structures in areas controlled by opposition groups to weaken civil society.
Another 132 civilians were killed by Kurdish forces, including four people who reportedly died under torture, and the rights group said 1,121 people were killed by opposition rebel factions, including 1,072 civilians. International coalition forces were said to be responsible for 277 civilian deaths.
You can only deceive yourselves and some leftist reddit people maybe. Not us.
“From our side, we want to establish a demarcation line with ISIS and will refrain from carrying out large military operations against the group to spare our forces (the military engagement) for other more strategic fronts. If we look at what happen in the offensive in reef Homs, like Mheen and Haw’wareen, we have retaken the two cities only because ISIS’s presence represents a possible threat to Homs. These were retaken and consolidated by “al-Redha” forces to create a defensive line that can be used in the future for when we decide to advance further in the area. In Kuweiress also, we have enlarged the corridor to create a safe perimeter to the airport so it can be used in the future for further larger military operations. To conclude, everything that ISIS doesn’t enjoy from, is, on the other hand, offered to the rebels and al-Qaeda in Syria”
“When we see a concentration of forces coming together to attack a city or a village or a hill, in many cases it is better to avoid any infantry engagement, pull out forces and allow the air force to decimate or eliminate as many of the attacking groups as possible. We have adopted this plan in many locations and have managed, with little effort, to regain control of lost territories, inflicting a large number of killed among the assaulting forces. The presence of a Russian Air Force accurate bombing is creating a real difference. Therefore, we hold the ground when necessary and possible. We try to reduce the lost of infantry and avoid unnecessary confrontation when there is no need too. ISIS animosity against the Syrian rebels is highly beneficial to us and we take as much advantage as possible from it as long as no alliance or cessation of hostility is reached between Baghdadi and al-Qaeda”
“ On the other hand, Al-Qaeda in Syria (or the Levant, Al-Nusra Front), Ahrar al-Sham and all the Jihadists salafist who are happy to establish an Islamic Emirates like the “Army of Islam” and the “Army of conquest”, all these get physical, military and training support from abroad. Intelligence and signals information, logistical facilities and lethal new weapons are placed at their service. Not only the regional countries, but also the United States and allies use these forces, directly or indirectly, as a Trojan horse, to hit the Syrian regime. Any conquered land, that was previously under their control, is considered a gain at the political negotiating table”, said the commander.
it's called strategy; it's called not shooting yourself in the foot.
It's the same reason Assad does not want to fight the Kurds right now. Because Turkeys 1 goal is to stop the Kurds and their 2nd goal is to destroy Assad. So if the regime can shut down Turkish backed insurgents completely (together with the Kurds) then Turkey is extremely unlikely to interfere when the regime tries to regain any Kurdish territory later on (if they have the strength).
@Lastpuritan: Did you see the small letters in the statistics images you posted? 900 people are in no way representative, from all we know they were anti-Assad from the beginning.
- Most of the civilians still live in government controlled areas. Not everyone likes Assad, just like every other president in a different country. That's no reason to take up arms and start terrorizing the country.
- You act like there are no other terrorist parties in Syria other than ISIS. There are several Al-Qaeda factions which are heavily supported by the West, Saudis, Turkey and their allies. Al-Nusra is currently a bigger threat than ISIS. ISIS doesn't control heavily populated areas whereas Al-Nusra does. If you think Al-Qaeda is moderate you have to be really blind.
- Turkmen feel more connected to Turkey than Syria. Turkey has been supporting them by providing weapons to overthrow the government. If they don't like Syria they should have just moved a few kilometers north to Turkey.
The protests in the beginning of the "civil" war were all staged and prepared. Before the protests my (Christian) family in Syria told me gunmen attacked a police station and stole uniforms and vehicles. These were later used against the protesters to ignite the war. This is just an example on how things were staged to start the war.
You provide no evidence for your claim that Assad was a victim of a false flag.
I need to open my eyes? Obviously the Assad regime is ruthless and obviously the Assad regime is incompetent. This unfolding of events has shown even if it was initially a false flag, there is all the reason to believe the regime could be responsible for it; it is in their character.
That day 5 years ago, all media had the same story. That story didn't change for 5 years. Not until you come along and claim you have family that knows the truth is opposite.
Sure, it is possible. But I need evidence. Without evidence and with an unlikely twist of fate, I will be forced to believe incorrect version. I have no way not to without abandoning Occam's razor and being wrong on a lot more other issues.
All evidence there is is the Syria regime claiming that besides many protesters, 4 members of the security forces were also killed. And that's all.
Moscow (dpa) - Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered the withdrawal of the majority of Russian troops in Syria starting Tuesday, saying their task has been "completely fulfilled."
Putin said he hoped the pullout will be a stimulus for a political resolution of the conflict.
"The task presented to the Defence Ministry and the armed forces has been completely fulfilled," Putin told Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu on Monday, the same day that representatives of the Syrian government and opposition struggled to agree on President Bashar al-Assad's future at the start of renewed peace talks in Geneva.
"Thus I order the defence minister to begin withdrawing the majority of our troops from the Syrian Arab Republic tomorrow," Putin said in comments carried by state news agency TASS.
He emphasized that Russia's airbase in the Syrian province of Latakia and its naval facility in the province of Tartus should still be reliably protected despite the withdrawal.
EPT
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