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Please guys, stay on topic.
This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. |
well, you can always read on Seymour Myron pieces: Seymour Myron "Sy" Hersh (born April 8, 1937) is an American investigative journalist and political writer based in Washington, D.C. He is a contributor to The New Yorker magazine on military and security matters. He has also won two National Magazine Awards and is a five-time Polk winner and recipient of the 2004 George Orwell Award.[5]
He first gained recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting. In 2004 he reported on the US military's mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh ).
you could maybe argue that this Hersh dude went a little cuckoo in the later stages of his life(his reports coming from unnamed sources and all) but you'll still remain with the events that followed that attack: - the sarin gas attack happened; US blamed Assad; US started planning an attack and designated bombing sites in Syria; ~2 days before the american involvement in Syria, Obama changed his mind then later started arming the kurds(which were notoriously known for their terrorist attacks against Turkey for decades).
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/10/30/seymour-hersh-news-report-banned-us-finally-confirmed-turkey.html
or look up on http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24761710.html or http://web.archive.org/web/20151022225540/http:/www.todayszaman.com/national_chp-deputies-govt-rejects-probe-into-turkeys-role-in-syrian-chemical-attack_402180.html
i know you hate the kurds and i think you won't mind to see those terrorists all dead, but one just does not go to the White House and flips off Obama + Show Spoiler +i read somewhere(can't find a link) that Erdogan did that because he was pissed off Obama didn't intervene in Syria .
quotes from those links A US intelligence consultant told me that a few weeks before 21 August he saw a highly classified briefing prepared for [Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Martin] Dempsey and the defense secretary, Chuck Hagel, which described ‘the acute anxiety’ of the [Turkish President Recep Tayyip] Erdoğan administration about the [U.S.-Turkey-Saudi-Qatari-backed] rebels’ dwindling prospects. The analysis warned that the Turkish leadership had expressed ‘the need to do something that would precipitate a US military response’. [In other words: Turkey’s leader, Erdoğan, ‘expressed’ to the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, that they needed to do something that would ‘precipitate a US military response’ against the man Erdoğan wanted to bring down, Assad. He was advising what’s called by the intelligence-services a ‘false-flag attack.’ Erdoğan wanted a false-flag attack, so as to enable U.S.
President Barack Obama to have a publicly believable excuse for invading Syria and doing what Erdoğan wanted done.]… In the aftermath of the 21 August attack Obama ordered the Pentagon to draw up targets for bombing. Early in the process, the former intelligence official said, ‘the White House rejected 35 target sets provided by the joint chiefs of staff as being insufficiently «painful» to the Assad regime.’ [I.e.: The Joint Chiefs had underestimated the President’s determination to bring down Assad… Obama’s change of mind [weakening his ardor against Assad] had its origins at Porton Down, the defence laboratory in Wiltshire. British intelligence had obtained a sample of the sarin used in the 21 August attack and analysis demonstrated that the gas used didn’t match the batches known to exist in the Syrian army’s chemical weapons arsenal. The message that the case against Syria wouldn’t hold up was quickly relayed to the US joint chiefs of staff.
The British report heightened doubts inside the Pentagon; the joint chiefs were already preparing to warn Obama that his plans for a far-reaching bomb and missile attack on Syria’s infrastructure could lead to a wider war in the Middle East. As a consequence the American officers delivered a last-minute caution to the president, which, in their view, eventually led to his cancelling the attack… Obama’s premise [‘premise’ here might instead have been just the tactful way for Hersh to say ‘excuse,’ which would have been even more unpublishable to apply to the President inside the U.S.; Hersh here avoids saying that the President was simply lying] – that only the Syrian army was capable of deploying sarin – was unravelling. Within a few days of the 21 August attack, the former intelligence official told me, Russian military intelligence operatives had recovered samples of the chemical agent from Ghouta. They analysed it and passed it on to British military intelligence; this was the material sent to Porton Down [the testing lab for Britain’s CIA-equivalent, MI6].
…The Porton Down report caused the joint chiefs to go to the president with a... serious worry: that the attack sought by the White House would be an unjustified act of aggression.[In other words: if he were to invade on that basis, the fakery of his excuse might become publicly known.] It was the joint chiefs who led Obama to change course. The official White House explanation for the turnabout – the story the press corps told [and Hersh is here pouring contempt upon America’s ‘press corps,’ as being nothing but stenographers for the White House] – was that the president, during a walk in the Rose Garden with Denis McDonough, his chief of staff, suddenly decided to seek approval for the strike from a bitterly divided Congress with which he’d been in conflict for years. …
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https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/africa/24158-rights-group-demands-israel-halt-oil-exploration-in-the-occupied-syrian-golan
Al-Marsad - Arab Centre for Human Rights in the Golan Heights sent an urgent letter to the Israeli Ministry of National Infrastructures, Energy and Water Resources, demanding the cancellation of permits issued at the start of February allowing drilling for oil in 11 different locations in the occupied Syrian lands.
The letter, sent by the organisation’s attorney Karama Abu Saleh and Palestinian legal centre Adalah’s lawyer Suhad Bishara, said: “The Golan Heights is occupied territory and its people are under occupation, and the Fourth Geneva Convention considers them protected civilians.”
It stressed that the “Israeli excavation violates the principle of sovereignty over natural resources and the collective right to the use of these resources, as expressed in the United Nations Resolution of 1962, which ensures peoples’ control over their natural resources, as well as the United Nations General Assembly resolution in 2006, which emphasises the exclusive right for the people of the Golan to use these resources.”
“The Golan is an occupied area and therefore it is subjected to the principle of the status quo embodied in international law. This means that it is prohibited to tamper with, transfer or confiscate public property; in addition, international law forbids looting,” the letter said.
Israeli permits which allow drilling for oil in the occupied Golan are a flagrant violation of the principles of international humanitarian law, the letter explained.
According to international humanitarian law, “the crude oil is a fixed asset and exploiting it is prevented.” This, the letter explained, exploitation is considered a war crime according to the Rome Statute, based on which the international Criminal Court was established, therefore Israel must cancel all permits immediately.
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There are conflicting reports of a-) Turkish f-16 shot down by s-400 missile b-) An unidentified drone(most likely russian or syrian) shot down by turkish air force c-) Saudi jet shot down by s-400 missile d-) An explosion near turkish border with syria(Hatay) Most likely scenario is b from the looks of it on social media but this might lead to something serious.
This is really recent so the incident is not reported by news agencies in detail but there are some reports in turkish(1,2)
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http://www.dpa-international.com/news/top_stories/ceasefire-in-syria-goes-into-effect-will-it-hold-a-48366410.html Beirut (dpa) - A ceasefire went into effect across large parts of Syria at midnight (2200 GMT Friday) after major rebel factions, President Bashar al-Assad's government and the largest Kurdish militia agreed to adhere to a "cessation of hostilities."
The deal was brokered by the United States and Russia and excludes Islamic State, al-Qaeda's affiliate al-Nusra Front and other UN-designated terrorist groups. Both Washington and Moscow have been launching airstrikes in the country.
The opposition, which has expressed doubts about whether the government would "exploit" the deal to advance its positions, said 97 rebel groups signed up and they would abide by the deal for up to two weeks.
Al-Nusra's leader rejected the truce and called for new attacks against the government CNN showed this map said it was russian made and that the regions in which the "cessation of hostilities" will happen are the yellow areas with the red border.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 26 2016 21:54 Isualin wrote:There are conflicting reports of a-) Turkish f-16 shot down by s-400 missile b-) An unidentified drone(most likely russian or syrian) shot down by turkish air force c-) Saudi jet shot down by s-400 missile d-) An explosion near turkish border with syria(Hatay) Most likely scenario is b from the looks of it on social media but this might lead to something serious. This is really recent so the incident is not reported by news agencies in detail but there are some reports in turkish( 1, 2) Haven't seen anything about this. Any follow-up?
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http://en.trend.az/world/turkey/2499953.html An unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) crashed in Turkey near the country’s border with Syria, the Turkish DHA news agency reported Feb. 26.
The drone crashed on the territory of the Hatay province.
There are no reports so far clarifying which country owns the UAV.
Reportedly, Turkish servicemen arrived at the crash site and further details of the incident are being clarified.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-deadly-suicide-bombs-ieds-legal-civilian-components-from-world-islamic-state-daesh-a6893856.html The report found that most of the components are gained by exploiting legal agricultural and mining sectors where the necessary chemicals and parts are freely available.
It identified 51 companies in 20 countries involved in the deadly supply chain, including Nokia, which is now owned by Microsoft, and firms headquartered in Europe and the US.
Although CAR concluded that issues stretched far beyond the nations surrounding Iraq and Syria, Turkey was found to be the main “choke point” in the enterprise. ... “If you are in YPG-controlled territory, the border is virtually hermetically sealed, whereas if the border is with Isis-controlled areas it was and still is virtually open,” Mr Bevan added.
The Turkish government failed to respond to CAR’s requests for information but other mentioned parties, including Nokia, aided the non-governmental organisation with documents and invoices. The report’s key findings:
Turkey: 13 companies - components including chemical precursors, containers, detonating cord, cables, and wires, which Turkish companies either manufactured or sold in Turkey before Isis forces acquired them in Iraq and Syria. India: Seven companies - manufactured most of the detonators, detonating cord, and safety fuses documented by CAR’s field investigation teams. Under Indian law, transfer of this material requires a licence and all components documented by CAR were legally exported to entities in Lebanon and Turkey. Japan, Switzerland, and the United States: Same electronic components consistently used in the construction of one type of remote-controlled IED used in Iraq. Companies headquartered in Japan, Switzerland, and the United States manufactured the microcontrollers and transistors used in the devices. United Arab Emirates and Iraqi Kurdistan: Isis in Iraq uses 105 Type RM-908 Nokia phones to manufacture of a specific type of remote-controlled IED. Of 10 such telephones documented by CAR, eight had been supplied to intermediaries in the United Arab Emirates and two had been sent to distributors in the city of Irbil, Iraqi Kurdistan.
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http://thehill.com/policy/defense/272230-pentagon-wants-to-restart-train-and-equip-program-for-syrian-rebels The U.S. military has requested permission from the administration to restart a halted program to train and equip moderate Syrian rebels, the top commander in the Middle East said Tuesday.
"I've asked for permission to restart the effort by using a different approach," Army Gen. Lloyd Austin, commander of U.S. Central Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee at a hearing.
The $500 million-a-year program meant to train a moderate force to defeat the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) was effectively canceled in October after fielding only 150 rebels at a cost of $384 million — far from its goal of 3,000 by December.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I sure wish people would stop pretending that there is such a thing as a "moderate rebel." There is no such thing.
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During wars where everyday life is insanity, people have a tendency to have insane beliefs. I am betting that the US is hoping that certain groups they are supporting will calm down after a decade of being in power which is very unlikely to happen.
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On March 09 2016 07:01 LegalLord wrote: I sure wish people would stop pretending that there is such a thing as a "moderate rebel." There is no such thing. The designation is for the rebels that primarily fight against the Assad regime/ Syrian Government for idealogical political reasons, not "Islamic" reasons. There's not many areas they control now since the Syrain government colluded with ISIS to destroy them, but who exactly do you think the ceasefire concerns? Would you rather call them freedom rebels?
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I'd rather call them terrorists. In all of the MidEast conflicts I can remember, the US was always arming "moderate rebels" who will fight for the US's foreign policy ambitions - until they turn out to have other plans and it blows up in their face. How many times have moderate Syrian rebels decided that they want to fold into ISIS?
Any genuine non-Islamic anti-government movement in Syria died long ago.
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Yes call them terrorists. The Syrian government. This would aid clarity. Who exactly does the ceasefire concern? The rebels and the Syrian government. They are both still there, neither have died.
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Calling Assad a terrorist is white-washing the extent of his actual crimes.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Sure, if you evaluate Assad by Western standards you will find him to be a brutal tyrant that should not exist.
By MidEast standards, however, he is a dictator that is not great but that brings stability. Given that every other country in the MidEast that "overthrew" its dictator (i.e. the US did it for them) turned into a black hole (Libya, Egypt, Iraq). For the MidEast, stability plus oppression is better than the alternative.
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Call the Syrian Government whatever you want. What exactly you want to call the other party to the ceasefire?
Also that bizarre assertation that the middle east is just inherently predisposed to dictatorship, ignoring that their people are constantly rebelling against said dictatorship and dictatorships seems to breed extremist militant Islamism.
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On March 10 2016 04:11 LegalLord wrote: Sure, if you evaluate Assad by Western standards you will find him to be a brutal tyrant that should not exist.
By MidEast standards, however, he is a dictator that is not great but that brings stability.
I don't think you can call the situation in Syria today stability. Assad turned out to be a weak dictator. His weakness and incompetence brought stability. Maybe if his brother didn't die, Syria would have a stronger dictator and they would have had so much bloodshed right now. Maybe he would have ended it quicker, only to have it escalate again later. Let's not act like this is a new thing. Hafez al-Assad was a stronger dictator than his son Bashar. But he also had to kill tens of thousands to stay in power. He also had to create chaos to create order. And he succeeded while Bashar failed.
If you are in favour of a strong dictator, you aren't in favour of Assad. What about Al Baghdadi. He seems like a decent strongman. Or let's try Nasrallah.
Anyway, this is all fallacious anyway. A dictatorship is like a pressure vat. The stronger the dictator, the higher you can let the pressure build up. Eventually you need to vent the pressure, and there will be chaos. Until a new strongman shows up that plugs the vat again and let's the pressure build up, only to have it vent again, throwing a country into chaos, bloodshed and civil war.
If you want true stability, you can't have a dictator. Repression builds up resentment and hatred. Not allowing divergent opinions sows extremism. Cracking down on religious diversity created religious fanaticism. Those are the lessons of history. And they apply as long as you think the Arab man is not sub-human.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Assad isn't great, but before the world decided to start meddling in Syria it was at the very least stable.
You are correct that dictatorship is inherently unstable. Problem is, so is Middle East society in every country I've ever seen. It's the best option among bad choices.
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The world didn't meddle in Syria. It imploded from the inside out.
Only when it did, everyone joined the 'party'.
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