EPTI read from a well-reputed Turkish newspaper (it was either Hürriyet or Haber Türk iirc) that the plane actually invaded Syrian airspace. Further conspiracies that belong to a pilot from NATO claim that Turkey was testing Syria's air defense with that plane and shit. As a Turkish person; all I know is, Turkey is less innocent than Syria.
Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 20
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
I read from a well-reputed Turkish newspaper (it was either Hürriyet or Haber Türk iirc) that the plane actually invaded Syrian airspace. Further conspiracies that belong to a pilot from NATO claim that Turkey was testing Syria's air defense with that plane and shit. As a Turkish person; all I know is, Turkey is less innocent than Syria. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6191 Posts
On June 26 2012 20:26 Tiax;mous wrote: because Turkey totally did whatever NATO told in Iraq conflict right? A dutch intellectual who blogs for a Dutch magazine Elsevier had a nice point. He says that Erdogan wants to show people that muslim fundamentalism are the ones who can create a regional powerhouse of Turkey. So his theory is that it's not NATO who uses Turkey but Turkey who wants to use NATO and use this airplane as a casus-belli. Basically he questions why Erdogan wants to attack Syria but when there were protests which was caused a violent reaction of the government in Iran he went there to shake hands with Ahmadinejad. http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Opinie/Afshin-Ellian.htm | ||
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Tiax;mous
669 Posts
On June 26 2012 20:32 ibo422 wrote: Letting them use the headquarters/lands ground to invade another country is more than enough to be accomplice.. except that didn't happened. USA has one base in Turkey ( Incirlik ) and they have been using that for a long long time, since way before Iraq conflict. Before the war, they were planing to have their main invasion route start from Turkey but Turkish government didn't allowed that and rejected to take any part in the Iraq war which ruined USA-Turkey relations for years. On June 26 2012 20:25 sekritzzz wrote: The hypocrisy of the world amazes me. I'm sure Hilary Clinton wouldn't mind Russian Spy jets flying 15 miles off the coast of the USA at low heights....I mean, how ridiculous, a country shooting down a plane invading its airspace? what is this rudeness coming from Syria! Syria natinoal waters are 12 miles, plane shot down in 13 mile. Yes the place breached the borders for a short amount of time, more than 10 minutes before the hit. Turkish military also announced these small breaches happens all the time during border patrol missions and planes of various other countries breached Turkish air space 114 time this year. If you dare to take such bold action ( not that you can't of course ), you can't complain about such reactions On June 26 2012 20:33 Djagulingu wrote: I read from a well-reputed Turkish newspaper (it was either Hürriyet or Haber Türk iirc) that the plane actually invaded Syrian airspace. Further conspiracies that belong to a pilot from NATO claim that Turkey was testing Syria's air defense with that plane and shit. As a Turkish person; all I know is, Turkey is less innocent than Syria. Government itself admitted the invasion, but they said it was a training plane with no weapons on a mission to test turkish radar systems, not syrian. On June 26 2012 20:40 RvB wrote: A dutch intellectual who blogs for a Dutch magazine Elsevier had a nice point. He says that Erdogan wants to show people that muslim fundamentalism are the ones who can create a regional powerhouse of Turkey. So his theory is that it's not NATO who uses Turkey but Turkey who wants to use NATO and use this airplane as a casus-belli. Basically he questions why Erdogan wants to attack Syria but when there were protests which was caused a violent reaction of the government in Iran he went there to shake hands with Ahmadinejad. http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Opinie/Afshin-Ellian.htm Frankly, I don't think this thing was staged by Turkish government ( not at this scale ) . Turkey has been baiting Syria for stupid mistakes for months now, giving them every opportunity to fuck up. I don't believe Turkey is doing this to start a war though, all these little scandalous events helps Turkey to pressure other countries politically ( same goes for israel / mavi marmara incident ). A war would be terrible for Turkey at the moment. Our economy is doing GREAT and stable. There is no way we would ruin it all for Syria. Also apologies for my terrible grammar, I'll blame sleeplessness for that... | ||
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Tiax;mous
669 Posts
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
On June 26 2012 20:43 Tiax;mous wrote: Syria natinoal waters are 12 miles, plane shot down in 13 mile. Yes the place breached the borders for a short amount of time, more than 10 minutes before the hit. Turkish military also announced these small breaches happens all the time during border patrol missions and planes of various other countries breached Turkish air space 114 time this year. If you dare to take such bold action ( not that you can't of course ), you can't complain about such reactions Government itself admitted the invasion, but they said it was a training plane with no weapons on a mission to test turkish radar systems, not syrian. That pretty much explains all that matters. You can't invade another country's airspace and complain about your plane getting brought down. Goes for Turkey, Syria as well as any other country in the world. | ||
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ibo422
Belgium2844 Posts
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On June 26 2012 10:04 0mar wrote: Dude, when Saddam did the same shit in the '80s, we shook his fucking hand and gave him great weapon deals. Our dictators get a free pass while dictators not aligned to our interests are "the devil." It's the same shit that happened in the Cold War. The US overthrew close to a dozen democracies in South America, trained death squads to root out "insurgents and communists" and turned a blind eye when these same death squads were wiping out entire families all because we had to "create a firewall against communism." The same shit is happening in Syria right now. We need to overthrow Assad because this removes a major enemy against Israel, isolates Russia even further and removes a key ally for Iran. It has nothing to do with civilians being shot. Geopolitics is chess, not checkers. The post quoted was simply pointing out that there are two sides to every story. The fact is that NATO has significant interests in overthrowing Assad and flying these false flag operations is not unknown to NATO. No, the post I quoted was claiming that NATO militias were killing unarmed civilians without any actual proof to back it up. I'm all for showing 'the other side of the story', but posting completely unsourced, unverified youtube clips has nothing to do with that. I don't deny that international relations are hypocritical and that there's never a clear right/wrong, but whats clear in Syria is that neither Turkey nor NATO want actual part of the conflict. Otherwise an intervention would have occurred months ago. Western nations are obviously more aligned with the rebels than with Assad, but its quite a leap to go from there to 'NATO death squads in Syria!!!!', which there is no proof of. What there is proof of is Assad being a brutal dictator by all accounts, even including Russian govt statements. I'll stick with verifiable information from multiple sources over mere speculation. | ||
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Tiax;mous
669 Posts
On June 26 2012 22:11 Djagulingu wrote: That pretty much explains all that matters. You can't invade another country's airspace and complain about your plane getting brought down. Goes for Turkey, Syria as well as any other country in the world. Please, you're talking as if it was fully loaded bomber flying right over Damascus. On June 26 2012 22:30 ibo422 wrote: It's actually crossing borders (not hostile attempt) because of the speed of the plane they said. Tiaxy used the wrong term I think but yeah, he seems pro-Turkey (w/e they do, good or wrong, he will try to defend it).. And if you really think NATO has only 1 base in Turkey.. X_x There is much more shit going on than you know, than we know.. (don't believe w/e you see/hear on the media) -_- With Turkey wanting to become a part of EU, etc.. Westerns ( EU/NATO/USA ) have a superior position and can demand much more and Turkey has to make a concession sooner or later. So yes, I feel Turkey is been used in the past / is being used right now / will be used in the future. Weeelll I'm a Turk living in Turkey so of course I'm a bit biased but I'm no way pro-turkey. Quite the contrary, I've been VERY critical of acts of turkish government in the past and what I'm trying to do here is to tell you how things looks from this side. And if you read my posts, tell me, what kind of pro-whatever would say these ; Frankly, I don't think this thing was staged by Turkish government ( not at this scale ) . Turkey has been baiting Syria for stupid mistakes for months now, giving them every opportunity to fuck up. I don't believe Turkey is doing this to start a war though, all these little scandalous events helps Turkey to pressure other countries politically ( same goes for israel / mavi marmara incident ). I'm not telling you turkey is innocent in this one or whatever ( innocence in politics... meh. couldnt care less about innocence really ). I'm just saying what syria did, wont help syria one little bit while it'll strengthen turkey's hand. And if you really think NATO has only 1 base in Turkey No what I said was USA/NATO has one big operational base here ( big enough to support any attack or whatever in the middle east ). Rest are smaller support/aircraft bases. With Turkey wanting to become a part of EU it's totally off topic but I can guarantee you, current government doesn't care about EU, not one bit. They only act as if they want to join EU because if they do otherwise, liberals will go batshit crazy on them telling they are turning turkey into an islamic republic etc etc. I feel Turkey is been used in the past / is being used right now / will be used in the future. Huh well of course, it's not even a news really. Every single country that has either oil or a big standing army or strategic location etc is a playground for USA / Russia / China / England. But I don't think this is a staged event really, if NATO wanted Syria they would have pulled this AFTER the election in USA, not before. | ||
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
The best solution would be c, but if the surrounding countries had any guts at all, they would have already done this a year ago... The Arab League has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to quell this crisis - they should be ashamed. All talk, no action - Assad doesn't give a shit if you condemn him. I really really don't want option d to have to take place, where Western powers have to come in and clean up another middle east mess. Meanwhile, China and Russia will be standing on their soapbox condeming the west, still trying to sell the idea that diplomacy can work here - just an excuse for them to do as little as possible to ease the crisis (I won't even get into Russia selling the Assad regime weapons). I'm very curious as to how history will look back at these events surrounding Syria - which countries legitimately tried to help, which countries sat on their hands, which countries made the situation even worse? It will all come out in the end. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
ReutersIndia twitted 26minutes ago " Assad says Syria at war as battle reaches capital ". The response from Turkey to their military plane shootdown by syria 2 days ago, by midnightwatcher's blog "Rules Of Engagement ‘Have Changed’: Furious Turkey Mobilizes Tanks, Troops To Syrian Border". Turkish officials have stated that they are considering stop supplying Syria with electricity. I'm expecting this to be broadcasted by all media in some minutes. Do you guys realise how big this is? If turkey invades syria, facts point to us that russia will not just watch it happen. They need one of their last or maybe even the last arabic country under their influence. But nato(read america) will want to have a say in this. If worse comes to worst, god help us. | ||
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Tiax;mous
669 Posts
On June 27 2012 08:09 Steveling wrote: Syria is now officially in a state of war. ReutersIndia twitted 26minutes ago " Assad says Syria at war as battle reaches capital ". The response from Turkey to their military plane shootdown by syria 2 days ago, by midnightwatcher's blog "Rules Of Engagement ‘Have Changed’: Furious Turkey Mobilizes Tanks, Troops To Syrian Border". Turkish officials have stated that they are considering stop supplying Syria with electricity. I'm expecting this to be broadcasted by all media in some minutes. Do you guys realise how big this is? If turkey invades syria, facts point to us that russia will not just watch it happen. They need one of their last or maybe even the last arabic country under their influence. But nato(read america) will want to have a say in this. If worse comes to worst, god help us. I doubt this will happen. OK maybe electricity but I'm dead sure they won't cut water ( which we also supply syria ). Turkish government is very careful about these stuff and they stated many times they won't do anything that would hurt civilians and cut humanitarian resources . Syria is just exaggerating stuff for more protection from russia and iran, turkey is doing the same for more political ground and pressure. Kinda funny how calm everybody in Turkey at the moment, this is a big deal only in political stage, no one in daily life even cares because most know nothing will happen anyway. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On June 27 2012 08:09 Steveling wrote: Syria is now officially in a state of war. ReutersIndia twitted 26minutes ago " Assad says Syria at war as battle reaches capital ". With who? Turkey or the Rebels? | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
.. First Russia has to actually find a nuke that works. | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
He didn't actually officially declare war on anything. He said Syria was in a 'state of war', which is different from being 'at war'. It's also not a response to the Turks, but its a response to fighting in the capital, where rebels attacked a republican guard base. Assad is currently in the process of shelling 'terrorist' neighborhoods in Damascus. And Turkey isn't invading Syria. They just said that Syrian troops should not go near the Turkish border or risk getting shot at. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Well that was the statement, your guess is as good as mine, but judging from the same declaration that turkey should have made but haven't yet(if it was against turkey), I'm guessing Assad just declared marshal state and put the army in red alert against every non-friendly unit/troops/whatever in the borders. And probe mate, I hope you are right, but I'm afraid that I'm not overreacting, Q_Q. | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
Finnish media says that it's related to yesterdays fight with repels. It was the most bloody one so far. I'd assume that Assad wants to end the "civil war"/whatever. (= use more force) | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
Local media reports at least 15 tanks deployed on border following the downing of a Turkish fighter jet. ´ http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/report-turkey-deploys-tanks-on-syrian-border-assad-says-country-in-a-real-state-of-war-1.444201 | ||
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Reyis
Pitcairn287 Posts
On June 27 2012 09:16 ImFromPortugal wrote: Report: Turkey deploys tanks on Syrian border; Assad says country in a 'real state of war' Local media reports at least 15 tanks deployed on border following the downing of a Turkish fighter jet. ´ http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/report-turkey-deploys-tanks-on-syrian-border-assad-says-country-in-a-real-state-of-war-1.444201 turkey is reinforcing the border in response to the syrian agression. turkish military have changed their rules of engagement at syrian borders now and if any of the syrian military unit comes closer to the border will be blown up without a warning. | ||
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Dryzt
Canada118 Posts
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perser84
Germany399 Posts
i bet the already do it intead to put end to the bloodshed they increase it with weapons and money http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/22/saudi-arabia-syria-rebel-army | ||
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