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Thread is about the various issues surrounding Japan in the aftermath of the recent earthquake. Don't bring the shit side of the internet to the thread, and post with the realization that this thread is very important, and very real, to your fellow members.
Do not post speculative and unconfirmed news you saw on TV or anywhere else. Generally the more dramatic it sounds the less likely it's true. |
On March 16 2011 12:42 chaoser wrote:
TimeOutTokyo TimeOutTokyo
Worth tweeting, too, that TEPCO have not 'abandoned Fukushima', as suggested by various shocker headlines. 50 brave workers remain on site.
16 seconds ago
TimeOutTokyo TimeOutTokyo
There has been no further report concerning the earlier earthquake alert. (12.40pm, March 16)
I'm trying to match the timestamps, it seems like that rt is more recent; however, according to this article, the remaining 50 have been evacuated as well:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/03/15/2011-03-15_japan_nuclear_crisis_workers_halt_desperate_struggle_to_stop_meltdown_at_fukushi.html
It also mentioned that it's been upgraded to level 6, which makes it worse than 3MI, and 2nd worst in history only to Chernobyl.
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Osaka27177 Posts
On March 16 2011 13:42 Hinanawi wrote:From BBC newsfeed: Show nested quote +
France is now urging its nationals in Tokyo to leave Japan or head to the south of the country, Reuters reports. It says Paris has asked the Air France carrier to provide planes for the evacuation.
Is it just me or is France being the most fear-mongering about this whole thing? French media was also the ones making up stuff about radiation levels earlier, and deciding by themselves that it was a 6 out of 7 on that disaster scale.
France has been absolutely awful. They are the running joke in my office right now.
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On March 16 2011 13:45 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 12:42 chaoser wrote:
TimeOutTokyo TimeOutTokyo
Worth tweeting, too, that TEPCO have not 'abandoned Fukushima', as suggested by various shocker headlines. 50 brave workers remain on site.
16 seconds ago
TimeOutTokyo TimeOutTokyo
There has been no further report concerning the earlier earthquake alert. (12.40pm, March 16) I'm trying to match the timestamps, it seems like that rt is more recent; however, according to this article, the remaining 50 have been evacuated as well: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/03/15/2011-03-15_japan_nuclear_crisis_workers_halt_desperate_struggle_to_stop_meltdown_at_fukushi.htmlIt also mentioned that it's been upgraded to level 6, which makes it worse than 3MI, and 2nd worst in history only to Chernobyl.
It was only "upgraded" to a 6 by the French government, it's definitely not a 6 since for it to be a 6 it would have to have a wide effect on the surrounding region aka not local (which is what level 4 is, local).
Also, they have been "evacuated" when there have been spikes in the Sv levels but as soon as the spikes drop they go back in so it's not really evacuated, it's more like temporary removal of workers. They are still there from what my friend is telling me from what she's seeing on the news right now so i think it's just more fearmongering by outside sources.
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On March 16 2011 13:48 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 13:45 Cambium wrote:On March 16 2011 12:42 chaoser wrote:
TimeOutTokyo TimeOutTokyo
Worth tweeting, too, that TEPCO have not 'abandoned Fukushima', as suggested by various shocker headlines. 50 brave workers remain on site.
16 seconds ago
TimeOutTokyo TimeOutTokyo
There has been no further report concerning the earlier earthquake alert. (12.40pm, March 16) I'm trying to match the timestamps, it seems like that rt is more recent; however, according to this article, the remaining 50 have been evacuated as well: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/03/15/2011-03-15_japan_nuclear_crisis_workers_halt_desperate_struggle_to_stop_meltdown_at_fukushi.htmlIt also mentioned that it's been upgraded to level 6, which makes it worse than 3MI, and 2nd worst in history only to Chernobyl. It was only "upgraded" to a 6 by the French government, it's definitely not a 6 since for it to be a 6 it would have to have a wide effect on the surrounding region aka not local (which is what level 4 is, local). Also, they have been "evacuated" when there have been spikes in the Sv levels but as soon as the spikes drop they go back in so it's not really evacuated, it's more like temporary removal of workers. They are still there from what my friend is telling me from what she's seeing on the news right now so i think it's just more fearmongering by outside sources.
I'm reading more on wiki hoping for a more neutral point of view; that article seems like a load of bull after I've read a few more...
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seems like the media are just as trustworthy as TEPCO
that animal video was horrible 
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TimeOutTokyo TimeOutTokyo Elsewhere, Street Fighter and Sonic are available on iPhone at a discount, with all proceeds going to tsunami relief. http://bit.ly/faM7df
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On March 16 2011 12:08 VanGarde wrote:
What exactly is it that you think that they are lacking that they are not asking for? The IAEA is directly involved, they have requested extra personel from the US and this happened days ago.
Do you honestly think that the current incident is haiving the outlook it has because the third largest economy in the world, and the country with one of the largest standing number of active nuclear reactors is not solving this incident faster because there is magical technology or expertise abroad that they are not asking for?
Please stop spreading speculation and assertion or repeat the random chatter that floods the internet. There are too many morons right now making statements that is just not based in information.
note: I apologize if this post is bordering on off topic. I will not pursue this discussion but I had to speak up against someone posting misleading speculation.
On march 13 Russian experts have been sent to Japan. As of march 15th they haven't been granted access to the reactors yet. And alffla already linked to the article about refusing US help.
He isn't posting misleading speculation. Japanese have refused help for several days before contacting IAEA.
On March 16 2011 12:25 johnnysokko wrote:
2) Even though its a disastrous situation, decision cannot be made without careful consideration, there are just too many case studies of engineers making the wrong decision because they gave in to the time pressure. Chernobyl and TMI are two of the biggest historical examples. We're all praying Fukushima doesn't make the list. At this point of disaster most of the decision are just trying figure out which option will be the least disastrous.
Are you kidding.
The Chernobyl disasted started because there were no real experts at the start of the damned experiment. The emergency board formed of true experts in the following days is actually what prevented Chernobyl from becoming even bigger catastrophe. It was they who studied power plant design and realized that there's a pool of water that needs to be drained underneath the reactor and the ground itself has to be frozen to prevent contact with underground streams.
Read the footing? Reuters is the sources of the "garbage article" you quoted.
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Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant.
Japan suspended operations to keep its stricken nuclear plant from melting down Wednesday after surging radiation made it too dangerous to stay.
Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the workers dousing the reactors in a frantic effort to cool them needed to withdraw.
Source: AP NEWS
Umm... Guys?
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I found this very moving, and I hope it helps some people to endure what they might be going through right now.
http://kizuna311.com/index_eng.html
My thoughts are with the people in Japan.
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On March 16 2011 13:57 InRaged wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 12:08 VanGarde wrote:
What exactly is it that you think that they are lacking that they are not asking for? The IAEA is directly involved, they have requested extra personel from the US and this happened days ago.
Do you honestly think that the current incident is haiving the outlook it has because the third largest economy in the world, and the country with one of the largest standing number of active nuclear reactors is not solving this incident faster because there is magical technology or expertise abroad that they are not asking for?
Please stop spreading speculation and assertion or repeat the random chatter that floods the internet. There are too many morons right now making statements that is just not based in information.
note: I apologize if this post is bordering on off topic. I will not pursue this discussion but I had to speak up against someone posting misleading speculation. On march 13 Russian experts have been sent to Japan. As of march 15th they haven't been granted access to the reactors yet. And alffla already linked to the article about refusing US help. He isn't posting misleading speculation. Japanese have refused help for several days before contacting IAEA. Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 12:25 johnnysokko wrote:
2) Even though its a disastrous situation, decision cannot be made without careful consideration, there are just too many case studies of engineers making the wrong decision because they gave in to the time pressure. Chernobyl and TMI are two of the biggest historical examples. We're all praying Fukushima doesn't make the list. At this point of disaster most of the decision are just trying figure out which option will be the least disastrous. Are you kidding. The Chernobyl disasted started because there were no real experts at the start of the damned experiment. The emergency board formed of true experts in the following days is actually what prevented Chernobyl from becoming even bigger catastrophe. It was they who studied power plant design and realized that there's a pool of water that needs to be drained underneath the reactor and the ground itself has to be frozen to prevent contact with underground streams. Read the footing? Reuters is the sources of the "garbage article" you quoted.
I reiterate, all you are doing is laying the groundwork for conspiratorial rants. There is no deep information on anything, you do not have a list of which offers have been made, which requests have been made, which have been declined, accepted and on which basis.
For all you know some help has been turned down and some have been accepted, or all have been declined but for good reason. So a news site says the us offered to send generators which was refused, it also says they had generators but of a different type. For all you know the generators was declined because they were not needed.
Bottom line is that this kind of speculation is absolutely pointless, especially when people go on to make completely unfounded statements like things would have been managed easier if they had only asked for help etc.
You can discuss this all you want when this is over and you have all the facts. Unless you work for the japanese government, or the people directly involved in solving this accident, you do not know why any decision was made, and you do not know if there have been any offer of help that would had made a difference.
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On March 16 2011 13:59 Headlines wrote:Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant.Show nested quote +Japan suspended operations to keep its stricken nuclear plant from melting down Wednesday after surging radiation made it too dangerous to stay.
Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the workers dousing the reactors in a frantic effort to cool them needed to withdraw. Source: AP NEWSUmm... Guys?
Its the same thing that western news have been reporting for two days now every time they evacuate workers. Most likely it is the same kind of temporary evacuation that has been going on every time the radiation spikes and then the workers are sent back in when radiation goes down again. I don't trust anything that does not come straight from Japanese news.
edit: the only thing that is constantly being said on japanese news is that "tepco orders workers in the central control room to temporarily relocate to a safer location"
Also the radiation levels that are being reported outside the reactors, even when they report an increase are no where near the values that were reported yesterday when the first fire broke out. They are "only" talking about levels around 4-6 millisievert at the front gates.
Basically, assume that any headline that you see is quote mined and part of a larger context. Either watch nhk worlds english dubbed stream or ask someone who speaks japanese who is watching japanese tv. Assume everything else is an exhagguration.
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Props to Japan for still managing to get their act together after all of that.
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On March 16 2011 13:59 Headlines wrote:Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant.Show nested quote +Japan suspended operations to keep its stricken nuclear plant from melting down Wednesday after surging radiation made it too dangerous to stay.
Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the workers dousing the reactors in a frantic effort to cool them needed to withdraw. Source: AP NEWSUmm... Guys?
I watched the press conference live. He didn't say they were permanently withdrawn. They are monitoring the radiation levels, when there's a spike past a safe level, they withdraw the workers. If it goes down, they can go in to work on the reactors again.
A lot of selective "quoting" from the media. Best just to watch the live translation of the press conferences for more accurate updates.
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Thank you VanGarde and Ryo.
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On March 16 2011 13:48 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 13:42 Hinanawi wrote:From BBC newsfeed:
France is now urging its nationals in Tokyo to leave Japan or head to the south of the country, Reuters reports. It says Paris has asked the Air France carrier to provide planes for the evacuation.
Is it just me or is France being the most fear-mongering about this whole thing? French media was also the ones making up stuff about radiation levels earlier, and deciding by themselves that it was a 6 out of 7 on that disaster scale. France has been absolutely awful. They are the running joke in my office right now.
Anyway, donated some money this morning since there was a group of japanese students in the main alley of my uni collecting donations and I'm pretty sure they will not let it go to waste. Hope that makes up a little for the French reputation. >_>
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
Sickening, but altogether unsurprising how fast the charity scams are rolling in...
Please, don't be deceived. Any email spam solicitation is most likely a scam.
Atten Sir/Madam
The Tzu Chi Foundation seek your help today with all of those who are suffe=
ring in the devastation caused by the earthquakes in Japan and the tsunami =
in the Pacific. We encourage all Second Life Residents to support the relie=
f efforts however they can, and we would like to help.
Tzu Chi chapter in Tokyo has opened up its office as shelter, and it is als=
o providing hot meals as well as internet connection for people to contact =
their family members. So far, Tzu Chi chapter in Tokyo has provided 500 set=
s of goods to people who cannot return home at this moment.=20
Tzu Chi Foundation, whose name means "compassion and relief," is an interna=
tional humanitarian organization with a special consultative status at the =
United Nations Economic and Social Council. Founded by Dharma Master Cheng =
Yen in 1966, the group has nearly 10 million volunteers and supporters in 5=
0 countries and has provided aid in 70 countries. Tzu Chi's work spans the =
fields of charity, medicine, education, environmental protection and disast=
er relief. It also established what is now the world's third largest bone m=
arrow donor registry, and promotes humanistic values and community voluntee=
rism. In 1984, Tzu Chi Foundation registered as a non-profit 501(c)(3) char=
itable organization in California. In 1989, the first office in the U.S. wa=
s established in Alhambra, CA. Since then, more than 80 offices and facilit=
ies have been established with over 120,000 volunteers and supporters worki=
ng to make a difference in their local communities. Please support Tzu Chi =
Foundation to help put a smile back to the Japanese citizens as well as the=
Animals in japan.
(EDITORS NOTE: WESTERN UNION = SCAM. DON'T BE TRICKED)
To make a donation, please use this informations below for our USA represen=
tative for Tzu Chi Foundation:
Name:John Ridge
Address: 425 laguna drive,rohnert park.california USA
Please email the payment information to:
tzu_foundation@yahoo.co.jp
Senders Name:
Senders address:
Tel:
Amount:
Mtcn:
Text Question:japan
Answer:japan
Thank you for wiping away tears from the eyes of millions ,
Tzu Chi=E2=80=99s street fundraising campaign.
United State Of American Chapter
If you want, make a fake email to waste the time of these scumbags (I know I will -- feel free to PM me if you need any pointers). Looks like there's going to be a bunch of charity scam websites to kill in the near future, as well.
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Gonna go to bed, I hope I wake up to good news. I've had a lot of people ask about all the rumors flying about regarding radiation levels, steam etc. I have a tip for anyone that is concerned about whether or not radiation is spreading further from the plant.
The Japanese government has as you know evacuated people within 20 km of the plant and people within 20-30 km are asked to stay indoors.
Whatever sensationalist news topics may say, as long as the Japanese government has not increased this radius, there is no reason to worry about the local people. If there is the slightest sign that radiation levels are rising to levels outside the evacuation radius that is dangerous to human health they WILL increase the radius where people should stay indoors.
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Once a meltdown occurs, there is almost no way of stopping it. You can only reduce the effects I think. That is why France gave it some number on the scale. The are just predicting what the aftermath of event is going to be like. Japan needs to take action now, from what i've seen on the news that are doing nothing. USSR sent 600k people to deal with chernobyl, with over 50k dieing. Japan is afraid to lose a couple people to avoid a global catastropie. Yes, the tsunami did alot of damage, but the nuclear radiation is 1000x more important and siginificant then any flood of water.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 16 2011 14:39 Mafs wrote:
Once a meltdown occurs, there is almost no way of stopping it. You can only reduce the effects I think. That is why France gave it some number on the scale. The are just predicting what the aftermath of event is going to be like. Japan needs to take action now, from what i've seen on the news that are doing nothing. USSR sent 600k people to deal with chernobyl, with over 50k dieing. Japan is afraid to lose a couple people to avoid a global catastropie. Yes, the tsunami did alot of damage, but the nuclear radiation is 1000x more important and siginificant then any flood of water.
Can people who keep making comments like this please be warned? Anyway good night..
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On March 16 2011 14:39 Mafs wrote:
Once a meltdown occurs, there is almost no way of stopping it. You can only reduce the effects I think. That is why France gave it some number on the scale. The are just predicting what the aftermath of event is going to be like. Japan needs to take action now, from what i've seen on the news that are doing nothing. USSR sent 600k people to deal with chernobyl, with over 50k dieing. Japan is afraid to lose a couple people to avoid a global catastropie. Yes, the tsunami did alot of damage, but the nuclear radiation is 1000x more important and siginificant then any flood of water.
This is so far from the truth it's sickening. Doing nothing? Where are you getting this info? Post some sources. Global catastrophe? How so? LWR's don't work like the Chernobyl reactors. Calm down a bit, go read the thread, and try to weed through the bullshit foreign media is spewing. VanGarde is right, at the first sign of real danger the Japanese government will move the evac range from 20 km (30 km stay inside) to more.
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EPT
