On September 19 2011 23:56 Aurocaido wrote: Lol at Gaddafi the evil terrorist supporter. You obviously had no knowledge of Libya prior to the civil war and have eaten up the propoganda spewed by the western mainstream media to turn public opinion in favor of an intervention.
... dude, it's a fact that he used to support terrorism. Get your facts straight, spewing bullshit doesn't make it true if you repeat it.
Jacques Verges calls the Libyan war a new Vietnam, where the US sprayed tens of millions of liters of toxins on crops in the 60s and 70s, causing brain disorders, miscarriages and birth defects to this day.
“They are using missiles with depleted uranium, which cause cancer,” he claimed. “In Tripoli I saw people crippled by NATO attacks – office workers who have nothing to do with the fighting. That is why we are suing President Sarkozy for crimes against humanity.”
NATO first denied bombing the residence where 13 civilians, including four children, died. It then called the place a military command center. Journalist Michel Colon went to see what it really housed.
“Books, videos, Spiderman toys, cultural books, nothing military,” were what he saw there. In another attack, Khaled El Awidi's wife, child and grandchildren were reportedly killed in their home. NATO is accused of deliberately waging a campaign of terror.
“Their bombings targeted the electricity, water and food supply,” Awidi's lawyer, Marcel Ceccaldi said. “After five months of daily NATO bombs and thousands of deaths, people will stop supporting the regime, because they just can't take it anymore.”
Western leaders are poised for their first serious legal challenge over Libya. If they stop the cases coming to court altogether, adds Ceccaldi, it will prove once and for all that Western justice really is run by the politicians, not the rule of law.
On September 19 2011 16:55 oldgregg wrote: lol at this thread. both sides just believe that their 'evidence' is reliable and the other side's 'evidence' is unreliable. when will it end?
As usually, the truth is somewhere in the middle .
You say you are innocent.
I say you are a murderer.
Congratulations, despite there being no proof you are now a rapist.
The truth is what the evidence shows it to be. Why would you "meet in the middle" on the truth.
I think you understood very well what i meant, despite this attempt of taking it ad literam for the sake of making discussion.
On September 20 2011 06:07 Saji wrote: French lawyers to sue Sarkozy over Libya abuses Published: 19 September, 2011
Jacques Verges calls the Libyan war a new Vietnam, where the US sprayed tens of millions of liters of toxins on crops in the 60s and 70s, causing brain disorders, miscarriages and birth defects to this day.
“They are using missiles with depleted uranium, which cause cancer,” he claimed. “In Tripoli I saw people crippled by NATO attacks – office workers who have nothing to do with the fighting. That is why we are suing President Sarkozy for crimes against humanity.”
NATO first denied bombing the residence where 13 civilians, including four children, died. It then called the place a military command center. Journalist Michel Colon went to see what it really housed.
“Books, videos, Spiderman toys, cultural books, nothing military,” were what he saw there. In another attack, Khaled El Awidi's wife, child and grandchildren were reportedly killed in their home. NATO is accused of deliberately waging a campaign of terror.
Their bombings targeted the electricity, water and food supply,” Awidi's lawyer, Marcel Ceccaldi said. “After five months of daily NATO bombs and thousands of deaths, people will stop supporting the regime, because they just can't take it anymore.”
Western leaders are poised for their first serious legal challenge over Libya. If they stop the cases coming to court altogether, adds Ceccaldi, it will prove once and for all that Western justice really is run by the politicians, not the rule of law.
You know he (edit: the lawyer sueing Sarkozy) was a friend of Pol Pot and defended Klaus Barbie in his trial for crimes against humanity, right?
What does that have to do with the reason they are suing Sarkozy? didn't you read the article?
Roland Dumas is the one that said he would defend Gaddafi not Verges
French ex-foreign minister Roland Dumas says he is ready to defend Muammar Gaddafi in the International Criminal Court, which has issued a warrant for his arrest
Verges is suing Sarkozy for crimes against humanity
Nicolas Sarkozy faces lawsuits over ordinary people killed in the war in Libya. Lawyers in France now accuse the president of committing crimes against humanity. Jacques Verges
My point is that it's ironic to see Verges criticizing Sarkozy while he himself was a friend of the founder of the Khmer Rouges, and defended Klaus Barbie the nazi.
So all these pro genocide pro NATO media outlets like Al Jazeera and BBC kept calling Tripoli a 'Gaddafi Stronghold', making us believe Gaddafi had a lot of support and that it would take weeks to capture the city through street to street combat. But it turned out that basically whole of Tripoli opposed Gaddafi and the city was captures with little resistance.
Now we have the remaining 'Gaddafi Strongholds' of Sitre, Beni Walid and Sabha. Apparently parts of Sirte and most of Sabha have now also fallen and people who fled from Beni Walid say that 90% oppose Gaddafi and that the population is held captive. Maybe it's propaganda but that's what they themselves say or believe.
So it turned out we were all wrong in estimating the support for Gaddafi. At the start I personally really feared large parts of Tripoli and places like Sirte would strongly support Gaddafi and defend their city against outside invaders. It turns out that it is like any dictatorship that only those that benefit from the regime, a minority by definition, support it.
Also, I hear the final 'Gaddafi Stronghold' has now fallen:
On September 21 2011 03:20 Hekisui wrote: So all these pro genocide pro NATO media outlets like Al Jazeera and BBC kept calling Tripoli a 'Gaddafi Stronghold', making us believe Gaddafi had a lot of support and that it would take weeks to capture the city through street to street combat. But it turned out that basically whole of Tripoli opposed Gaddafi and the city was captures with little resistance.
Now we have the remaining 'Gaddafi Strongholds' of Sitre, Beni Walid and Sabha. Apparently parts of Sirte and most of Sabha have now also fallen and people who fled from Beni Walid say that 90% oppose Gaddafi and that the population is held captive. Maybe it's propaganda but that's what they themselves say or believe.
So it turned out we were all wrong in estimating the support for Gaddafi. At the start I personally really feared large parts of Tripoli and places like Sirte would strongly support Gaddafi and defend their city against outside invaders. It turns out that it is like any dictatorship that only those that benefit from the regime, a minority by definition, support it.
what about this? ...it seems Ghaddafi has lots of "Last STrongholds"
Libya's rebels fail to take control of Bani Walid and Sirte
Cairo - Libya's rebels failed for the second consecutive day Monday to take control of the two remaining strongholds of fugitive leader Moamer Gaddafi, the coastal city of Sirte, Gaddafi's birthplace, and the desert town of Bani Walid, south-east of Tripoli, Arab media reported.
Rebels fought fierce battles overnight but 'they could not make any major advances inside Bani Walid or Sirte,' Al Arabiya reported.
According to rebel sources the 'Gaddafi fighters are fighting fiercely for their last strongholds and they are positioned in key places inside the city of Bani Walid.'
Gaddafi spokesman Mussa Ibrahim speaking to the Damascus-based al Rai television by phone said Monday that their troops have won several battles in the past few days against the country's new authorities.
'We have won several battles against the NATO collaborators and managed to push them out of Bani Walid and Sirte.'
'In spite of deadly NATO strikes our forces resist and our fighters pursue their fight because we are involved in a battle for dignity and against the forces of evil,' he added.
Ibrahim said he was confident that the capital Tripoli would be 'reconquered
A can add to the article, there were 2 more important factors. 1. Very weak government intelligence, secret services. They know almost nothing what is going on in the country, starting from the beginning of the conflict. 2. The Tripoli support of Gaddafi is passive. Vast majority of people do not want to die for Gaddafi or for the rebels.
What's the difference between Moussa Ibrahim, and Mohammed al Sahaf?
Also, remember the woman that claimed that she was raped by Gaddafi men and that fled to the journalists inside Rixos Hotel.
Ibrahim called her a prostitute, drunk and insane and whatnot. Later her mother was interviewed and she said the regime offered her money for silence. BTW, she also said they peed on her.
This Ibrahim is now being defended by the these online Gaddafi mercenaries like Saji, Geyzer, ImFromPortugal.
Also, weren't these people warned weeks ago? And they are at a pretty bad state when they have to post articles in languages they can't even read.
Also, what about defending the 'security troops' in Yemen and Syria. Aren't they your brothers in arms. They can use a bit of a help. Remember the 15 year old that was found tortured to death. And the peaceful protesters in Yemen that got their heads blown apart. Why not defend them? Aren't they just as deserving? Or don't they pay enough?
al-Obeidi telling her story and talking about Moussa Ibrahim and his rapist cousin:
Now we can sit here, being from a western country, being cool and smoking a joint inbetween playing a game of SC, calling this girl a liar. She is pro NATO after all. Yes, she is a liar and we are not. Hey, lets buy a new computer tomorrow when we skip school. Yes, that's what we are rich cool anti NATO kids. Long life dictators and rapists who shoot brains of children apart.
On September 21 2011 04:15 xBillehx wrote: Video of a family who escaped from Bani Walid explaining what it's like in the city:
Again 90% supporting rebels... National Conference for Libyan Tribes in May demonstrated that most Libyans support Gaddafi. One Million march for Gaddafi in June.
Qatari Al Jazeera lied so much from the very beginning of the conflict. How can they be considered as the reliable news source after they built a fake Green square in Qatar?? Not to mention periodical disinformation that later turns to be lie(or war propaganda).
On September 21 2011 04:15 xBillehx wrote: Video of a family who escaped from Bani Walid explaining what it's like in the city:
Again 90% supporting rebels... National Conference for Libyan Tribes in May demonstrated that most Libyans support Gaddafi. One Million march for Gaddafi in June.
Qatari Al Jazeera lied so much from the very beginning of the conflict. How can they be considered as the reliable news source after they built a fake Green square in Qatar?? Not to mention periodical disinformation that later turns to be lie(or war propaganda).
How about some sources for all of those claims of yours.
On September 20 2011 06:07 Saji wrote: French lawyers to sue Sarkozy over Libya abuses Published: 19 September, 2011
Jacques Verges calls the Libyan war a new Vietnam, where the US sprayed tens of millions of liters of toxins on crops in the 60s and 70s, causing brain disorders, miscarriages and birth defects to this day.
“They are using missiles with depleted uranium, which cause cancer,” he claimed. “In Tripoli I saw people crippled by NATO attacks – office workers who have nothing to do with the fighting. That is why we are suing President Sarkozy for crimes against humanity.”
NATO first denied bombing the residence where 13 civilians, including four children, died. It then called the place a military command center. Journalist Michel Colon went to see what it really housed.
“Books, videos, Spiderman toys, cultural books, nothing military,” were what he saw there. In another attack, Khaled El Awidi's wife, child and grandchildren were reportedly killed in their home. NATO is accused of deliberately waging a campaign of terror.
Their bombings targeted the electricity, water and food supply,” Awidi's lawyer, Marcel Ceccaldi said. “After five months of daily NATO bombs and thousands of deaths, people will stop supporting the regime, because they just can't take it anymore.”
Western leaders are poised for their first serious legal challenge over Libya. If they stop the cases coming to court altogether, adds Ceccaldi, it will prove once and for all that Western justice really is run by the politicians, not the rule of law.
You know he (edit: the lawyer sueing Sarkozy) was a friend of Pol Pot and defended Klaus Barbie in his trial for crimes against humanity, right?
What does that have to do with the reason they are suing Sarkozy? didn't you read the article?
Roland Dumas is the one that said he would defend Gaddafi not Verges
French ex-foreign minister Roland Dumas says he is ready to defend Muammar Gaddafi in the International Criminal Court, which has issued a warrant for his arrest
Verges is suing Sarkozy for crimes against humanity
Nicolas Sarkozy faces lawsuits over ordinary people killed in the war in Libya. Lawyers in France now accuse the president of committing crimes against humanity. Jacques Verges
So I don't understand what you trying to say.
Dumas and Verges are two old men and they are absolutly irrevelant. ( Verges is a clown and Dumas is so dirty that nobody can take him seriously ). They tried to defend Gagbo too lol.
lol he still dares to say they faked Green Square in Qatar.
If I were a Libyan and some western punk would tell me they faked their celebration in their square I would be so fucking mad. WTF you have the guts to even say that.
Get banned you immoral punk, arab hater.
Next time you drive in a car, know that the Arabs pay with their blood for your oil. Yet you shit on them no problem.
On September 21 2011 05:21 GeyzeR wrote: A good article about Operation in Tripoli http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http://www.itar-tass.com/c108/228651.html Relax about Russian origin. There is nothing controversial in the article and ITAR-TASS was always reporting what western media does. I already wrote, there is no such thing as russian anti-western propaganda anymore. Russia is western oriented, vote as the West wants, gives its resources for fiat money with no future (USD), buys USA bonds (that has no future too) etc...
A can add to the article, there were 2 more important factors. 1. Very weak government intelligence, secret services. They know almost nothing what is going on in the country, starting from the beginning of the conflict. 2. The Tripoli support of Gaddafi is passive. Vast majority of people do not want to die for Gaddafi or for the rebels.
Well know we seem to agree on one thing at least, most people in Libya don't actually want to take part in the rebellion. The youth is in the streets, Gaddafi is fighting it, but the families - my guess would be more than half of the population - are just running away.
However, I don't agree about Russia's position; their recent demand of reevaluation of their votes in the IMF, their actions in Georgia, their opposition to Libyan intervention, and their close relationship with China clearly show that they're trying to fight the US, NATO and the UN being mostly the tools of the western side. This doesn't mean that they're not part of the west themselves, in fact this is a tricky topic, but they're not followers of the US.
In fact, I remember that Russia Today started the Libyan coverage by denouncing the lack of action, declaring that Europe and the US will just stay and watch as Gaddafi slaughters thousands; then NATO came in, and RT completely changed its attitude in the course of 2 or 3 days, accusing the "western powers" to destroy and prey on Libya.
On September 21 2011 05:21 GeyzeR wrote: A good article about Operation in Tripoli http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http://www.itar-tass.com/c108/228651.html Relax about Russian origin. There is nothing controversial in the article and ITAR-TASS was always reporting what western media does. I already wrote, there is no such thing as russian anti-western propaganda anymore. Russia is western oriented, vote as the West wants, gives its resources for fiat money with no future (USD), buys USA bonds (that has no future too) etc...
A can add to the article, there were 2 more important factors. 1. Very weak government intelligence, secret services. They know almost nothing what is going on in the country, starting from the beginning of the conflict. 2. The Tripoli support of Gaddafi is passive. Vast majority of people do not want to die for Gaddafi or for the rebels.
Well know we seem to agree on one thing at least, most people in Libya don't actually want to take part in the rebellion. The youth is in the streets, Gaddafi is fighting it, but the families - my guess would be more than half of the population - are just running away.
However, I don't agree about Russia's position; their recent demand of reevaluation of their votes in the IMF, their actions in Georgia, their opposition to Libyan intervention, and their close relationship with China clearly show that they're trying to fight the US, NATO and the UN being mostly the tools of the western side. This doesn't mean that they're not part of the west themselves, in fact this is a tricky topic, but they're not followers of the US.
In fact, I remember that Russia Today started the Libyan coverage by denouncing the lack of action, declaring that Europe and the US will just stay and watch as Gaddafi slaughters thousands; then NATO came in, and RT completely changed its attitude in the course of 2 or 3 days, accusing the "western powers" to destroy and prey on Libya.
Only fools and internet warriors with tin foil hats on take RT seriously.
Ibrahim called her a prostitute, drunk and insane and whatnot. Later her mother was interviewed and she said the regime offered her money for silence. BTW, she also said they peed on her.
This Ibrahim is now being defended by the these online Gaddafi mercenaries like Saji, Geyzer, ImFromPortugal.
Also, weren't these people warned weeks ago? And they are at a pretty bad state when they have to post articles in languages they can't even read.
Also, what about defending the 'security troops' in Yemen and Syria. Aren't they your brothers in arms. They can use a bit of a help. Remember the 15 year old that was found tortured to death. And the peaceful protesters in Yemen that got their heads blown apart. Why not defend them? Aren't they just as deserving? Or don't they pay enough?
Now we can sit here, being from a western country, being cool and smoking a joint inbetween playing a game of SC, calling this girl a liar. She is pro NATO after all. Yes, she is a liar and we are not. Hey, lets buy a new computer tomorrow when we skip school. Yes, that's what we are rich cool anti NATO kids. Long life dictators and rapists who shoot brains of children apart.
online Gaddafi mercenaries like Saji, Geyzer, ImFromPortugal. lmao..where did i defend that guy? and all the news articles i have posted are in English, are you stupid or just trolling?
On September 21 2011 04:15 xBillehx wrote: Video of a family who escaped from Bani Walid explaining what it's like in the city:
Again 90% supporting rebels... National Conference for Libyan Tribes in May demonstrated that most Libyans support Gaddafi. One Million march for Gaddafi in June.
Qatari Al Jazeera lied so much from the very beginning of the conflict. How can they be considered as the reliable news source after they built a fake Green square in Qatar?? Not to mention periodical disinformation that later turns to be lie(or war propaganda).
Wow.
A national conference organised by the dictator himself showed that most libyans support democracy. I think the history of the USSR pretty much shows how reliable those things are. 99% of the vote going to the great leader.
As for the 'one million march for ghadaffi', reasonable estimates put attendance between 15.000 and 30.000. Some of them not there voluntarily:
Ahmed went missing in Tripoli near the very beginning of the uprising. His family now believes that he was arrested on February 22 and taken to the notorious Adu Salim prison with many others. At the time they assumed he had been shot dead and disappeared by soldiers, mercenaries or one of Qaddafi's security services, like so many others.
So when a member of one Qaddafi's revolutionary committees told Ahmed's father, "We have your son, he is being held at Abu Salim prison. If your family does not come out to demonstrate on Friday you will never see your son again.", they paid him no never-mind and an extended clan of around 50 adult males and family refused to attend the rally. A few hours after the rally Ahmed's still warm body was dumped outside the family home with two bullets in his head.
Many other families received similar threats. "We did not think it was possible that he (Ahmed) was still alive, we thought the guy was just making threats," said Mohammed, Ahmed's uncle who was interview by AFP.
Yea, that sounds like a dictator with broad popular support, I totally agree.
On September 20 2011 06:07 Saji wrote: French lawyers to sue Sarkozy over Libya abuses Published: 19 September, 2011
Jacques Verges calls the Libyan war a new Vietnam, where the US sprayed tens of millions of liters of toxins on crops in the 60s and 70s, causing brain disorders, miscarriages and birth defects to this day.
“They are using missiles with depleted uranium, which cause cancer,” he claimed. “In Tripoli I saw people crippled by NATO attacks – office workers who have nothing to do with the fighting. That is why we are suing President Sarkozy for crimes against humanity.”
NATO first denied bombing the residence where 13 civilians, including four children, died. It then called the place a military command center. Journalist Michel Colon went to see what it really housed.
“Books, videos, Spiderman toys, cultural books, nothing military,” were what he saw there. In another attack, Khaled El Awidi's wife, child and grandchildren were reportedly killed in their home. NATO is accused of deliberately waging a campaign of terror.
“Their bombings targeted the electricity, water and food supply,” Awidi's lawyer, Marcel Ceccaldi said. “After five months of daily NATO bombs and thousands of deaths, people will stop supporting the regime, because they just can't take it anymore.”
Western leaders are poised for their first serious legal challenge over Libya. If they stop the cases coming to court altogether, adds Ceccaldi, it will prove once and for all that Western justice really is run by the politicians, not the rule of law.
On September 21 2011 04:15 xBillehx wrote: Video of a family who escaped from Bani Walid explaining what it's like in the city:
Again 90% supporting rebels... National Conference for Libyan Tribes in May demonstrated that most Libyans support Gaddafi. One Million march for Gaddafi in June.
Qatari Al Jazeera lied so much from the very beginning of the conflict. How can they be considered as the reliable news source after they built a fake Green square in Qatar?? Not to mention periodical disinformation that later turns to be lie(or war propaganda).
I merely passed on their story. If you have a problem with the story told by the family feel free to fly into Tripoli and speak to them yourself. Hell, then you can even take video of it actually being in Gadaffi's hands still, since you know, Tripoli falling to rebels was merely a hoax Hollywood production in Qatar.
EPT
.
