The fact is that things actually do mash up perfectly together. The western media has been right on the money with their reports from the day things started. Very early on they called the rebels poorly trained for combat and what happened? The rebels got beaten back early on.
There have been no reports that the NTC had moved to Tripoli. There might have been reports that they would move there, but it might suprise you, predictions are not confirmations. If a source says they are going to do something in the future then it's always a prediction and it can always be wrong. This should allready be obvious.
Every single article I read from the mainstream media contains huge amounts of blatantly inflamatory language. Almost every one concerning Bani Walid and Sirte contain 'they are using human sheilds' or 'they are fighting from public places so we are afraid to engage' or 'the people are being held hostage.' If the population did not support Gaddafi these cities would have fallen long ago considering the vast superiority of men, weapons, and NATO bombardments.
That's not inflamatory language and it hardly appears on any of the mainstream reporting. There have been some reports but your suggestion that that is all that gets reported is a complete falsehood. The disturbing thing is that you know this, and i wonder why you would intentionally misrepresent the facts. You should adapt to the facts, not try to make things into what you want them to be.
The only current frontpage reports on Libya are in relation to the possible mass grave. You might be eager to refute this report because it doesn't fit with your view of things but for the moment i would ask you to be honest. You must admit that the discovery of a mass grave isn't propoganda, infact if you know the history as you claim to do then you should admit that discovering a mass grave was just a matter of time. Just for now, set aside your desire to shape the facts into what you want them to be and really take the history into account. Gaddaffi commited numerous attrocities and the prison mass murder has been well reported. You know there would be a mass grave left over, the one wich is most likely discovered now.
And fyi I just finished a bachelor degree in politics (international relations) with a minor in history. I know how to critique sources, but I also know how to think critically and independantly. In my globalization seminar we discussed the situation in Libya extensively and the way the media is reporting of it. What is being reported and what is taking place does not add up. I'm sorry.
See the problem is you don't know how to critique sources. You want to be that guy that can judge sources but your very last post displayed a complete inability to be critical of sources. You saw a source wich you needed to be true, so you made it out to be true. But if you are honest you will admit that the source you brought forth is obviously unreliable. A state newspaper for a totalitarian regime? Why would you buy into that? Because you needed it to be true.
You aren't the objective guy that cuts through the lies and finds the real story. You are just one of many who take in the sources they want to be true. I don't understand why you deny that wich is so obvious. You clearly demonstrated an inability to judge sources on their validity, admit to this. Stop denying things that you don't want to hear and be honest in the mistakes you made and the bias you have displayed.
Perhaps you do have a bachelor degree in politics with a minor in history, but that is not relevant in the slightest. You called Libya a democracy, how can you make a claim to credentials? You should display your understanding of history by being accurate, not by making a claim nobody can verify about having obtained a minor in history.
Maybe you have a minor in history, we cannot verify that. We can however state without a doubt that your understanding of history is limited at best. It's time to drop the facade and start being honest. No more twisting facts and truths. If you truly believe that you can defend a horrible regime like the Gaddaffi regime then you are going to have to do so without resorting to twisting facts and rejecting highly aclaimed news sources by simply stating "mainstream media".
How can someone who grew up in Canada and received ample education, historical awareness, was trained in critical thinking and interpreting the media and who even claims to study political science fall for propaganda that is purely aimed to trick illiterate elderly very conservative people who are naturally biased to favour a status quo and whose only tv channel is the Libyan state news channel?
This when you have access to more information with the press of a button than these people probably have in their lifetime. And you even have others telling you how wrong you are. Yet these Libyans don't fall for it but you do, despite all circumstances?
Honestly, I don't believe anyone can be that stupid. You are paid by Gaddafi to make these posts.
Enjoy the money. You are trampling on victims while enjoying the good life that was handed to you for free just so you can have it even easier. And in the mean time you aren't accomplishing anything except getting people riled up and getting pissed off at you personally. You are a true hero.
I'dd like to add one thing: if you're have a minor in history, how do numbers like 60 000 civilians dead not seem ridiculous to you? Even the NTC who wants everyone to believe that Gaddafi eats babies alive says that the death toll is aroung 30 000. How can you call Gaddafi's regime a democracy even though the structure of the state gave power only to government officials, when his sons can simply request money from the Oil Ministry, if opposition wasn't allowed? How can your writing style be so trivial and erratic if you're supposedly studying such matters?
Very few people here actually defend the NTC as the voice of the Libyan people, so why do you feel the need to fight "western propaganda"? And again, explain how the west is one huge alliance, and how the western leaders control every newspaper in the western sphere...
According to NATO’s own figures, the bombing of Sirte resulted in 427 “key hits” from August 25 to September 29, so it can be said that at least that number of buildings have been destroyed within the city.
On top of that, anti-Gaddafi forces are shelling the city with everything they have at their disposal – tanks, artillery and Grad rockets – causing more death and destruction.
There are reports on Twitter that yesterday alone, more than 20 civilians – men, women and children – died in NATO bombings in Sirte and its defenders say they have video footage to prove it.
The refugees say Sirte is critically short of water, food and medicine, and there is now a very real threat of a new humanitarian disaster emerging.
NATO needs to be brought to justice for killing Libyan civilians.
Libya's National Transitional Council says it will not form an interim government until the whole country is liberated. Anti-Gaddafi forces have already taken the airport in the fugitive Colonel's hometown of Sirte, one of his remaining strongholds.
Reinforcements have been called in ready for a fresh assault in the face of strong resistance, as civilians continue to flee the violence in the besieged city.
Director of the ANSWER anti-war coalition Brian Becker says NATO is only adding to their problems.
“Clearly, they are not protecting civilians when they are bombing cities that are considered to be pro-Gaddafi, when they are killing people, not because they’ve done something wrong, but because their own political beliefs are contrary to what NATO wants in terms of the kind of government they want for Libya,” he told RT.
“So I think that they need to be brought to justice,” Becker continued. “I think, though, unless there’s a very strong international movement for human rights in this instance, I think it’s unlikely they will be brought to court.”
Upwards of 80% of Tripoli is under the green flag of the Libyan Jamahiriya. Sieges of Bani Walid and Sirte all but broken. NTC in chaos.
In spite of it´s absolute air superiority, NATO is loosing the battle on the ground. Today the citizens of Bani Walid woke up to a surprise. Instead of the usual bombs, NATO planes dropped thousands of fliers telling the people to leave the city or to be considered military targets. Is NATO preparing for an onslaught with bobs in a desperate attempt to turn around the lost battle on the ground.
Tonight nsnbc received confirmed reports that the siege on Bani Walid and Sirte is broken. Though there are heavy clashes around both cities, the resistance inside the cities has now established contact with the military, Tribal and Volunteer Forces that came to their relief.
Tonight heavy fighting erupted in and around the Green Square in Tripoli. A NATO ammunition depot in Tripoli harbor was seized by Libyan Forces. There was heavy fighting at both Tripoli´s military airport as well as Mitiga Airport. Tribal militia from Zintan secured several banks in Tripoli and began refunding money that had been seized by the TNC. The Zintan militia also stormed several prison facilities and liberated numerous PoW´s that had been captured during the last months of fighting. The result of tonights fighting; The Green Flag is flying over 80% of Tripoli.
What happened to 99+% of Tripoli being held by the revolutionaries? lol
Abdelhakim since March has been known to be a leader of the revolution. He is from LIFG (Libyan Islamist Fighting Group) and was involved with sending terrorists to Iraq to promote Islamist agenda (like Khomeini didn't do that enough in the 70s to 80s...), if not personally involved in that himself. Seeing as to this day he's still one of the top leaders of the revolutionaries and is making moves to gain power, it would come as no surprise as I predicted as early as Feb., that Islamists would take over Libya if the republic falls.
For some reason, I read that as msnbc, which surprised me a bit that they would be saying what Aurocaido posted. Damn, I need a break from studying. My bad, carry on. Point still stands not to let Islamists take power in Libya, though.
On October 02 2011 10:00 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: What happened to 99+% of Tripoli being held by the revolutionaries? lol
Abdelhakim since March has been known to be a leader of the revolution. He is from LIFG (Libyan Islamist Fighting Group) and was involved with sending terrorists to Iraq to promote Islamist agenda (like Khomeini didn't do that enough in the 70s to 80s...),.
well Khomeini dindt do anything until 1979 because there was no islamic republic until then so he didnt send any guys at all on the 70s since he was in exile in france until 1979
Aurocadio, you do know that RT is just the foxnews for russian style propoganda attacking the western media, sometimes they report beautifully and sometimes beyond idiotically, they have an agenda just like most media does, if you're blind to that fact, you don't deserve that degree you claim to have
On October 02 2011 15:06 Coramoor wrote: Aurocadio, you do know that RT is just the foxnews for russian style propoganda attacking the western media, sometimes they report beautifully and sometimes beyond idiotically, they have an agenda just like most media does, if you're blind to that fact, you don't deserve that degree you claim to have
Fox News is a paragon of neutral and fact-based reporting compared to the joke of journalism called RT.
On October 02 2011 15:06 Coramoor wrote: Aurocadio, you do know that RT is just the foxnews for russian style propoganda attacking the western media, sometimes they report beautifully and sometimes beyond idiotically, they have an agenda just like most media does, if you're blind to that fact, you don't deserve that degree you claim to have
Fox News is a paragon of neutral and fact-based reporting compared to the joke of journalism called RT.
there is over 150 examples of blatant disregard for journalism by fox news, yea RT is pretty bad, but fox news is no paragon of neutral and fact-based reporting compared to anyone but north koreas national news network
How is this thread still going? It dies after people call Saji and Aurocaido on their biased crap, but they wait 3 days and start posting the same biased crap, which they get called on again and then stop for another few days. AND THEN THE CYCLE BEGINS ANEW.
Members of two Libyan tribes -- who fought together to unseat Moammar Gadhafi and his loyalists -- clashed Saturday, infighting among opposition forces that comes as a key ally of the longtime leader vowed to keep up the fight.
Ahmed Hussein, a resident of Badr, told CNN that Berber tribesmen from Nalut used Kalashnikov rifles and machine guns in an attack on Seaan Arab forces in that mountainous western Libyan city. A family of three caught in the crossfire was killed, he claimed.
"Nalut rebels were welcome to our town during the revolution, but now they barge in with their weapons searching the houses and scaring the residents," said Hussein, who witnessed the attacks.
Oh and something I found interesting.
But Gadhafi loyalists are still offering stiff resistance in Bani Walid, Sabha and Sirte, and Moammar Gadhafi himself remains at large.
Musa Ibrahim, a spokesman for the longtime Libyan ruler, vowed again Saturday that loyalists will not give up.
Was it not reported by most mainstream media outlets just a few days ago that both Sabha and Ibrahim had been captured? Here is one.
Libya's interim rulers are claiming that their fighters have overrun the key southern city of Sabha, one of the last strongholds of forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi.
"We are in complete control of the city of Sabha. Everybody, including [those who were] pro-Gaddafi, are now with the revolution," Abdelmajid Seif Ennasr, an official for the National Transitional Council (NTC) in Sabha, told the AFP news agency on Wednesday.
Colonel Bani also said the council had “completely liberated” Sabha, a Qaddafi stronghold deep in the Sahara, though he added that loyalist snipers were still active in the city.
On October 02 2011 16:07 Reedjr wrote: How is this thread still going? It dies after people call Saji and Aurocaido on their biased crap, but they wait 3 days and start posting the same biased crap, which they get called on again and then stop for another few days. AND THEN THE CYCLE BEGINS ANEW.
TBH I thought about continually updating but I hoped that if the thread stayed dormant for a while they would just forget and stop spewing crap. Guess I was too hopeful.
@Aurocaido, I know it might be hard to believe but human error exists. You're looking too much into one source accidentally including Sabha. Earlier in the thread you said you knew how to critique sources, (even though you continued to post propaganda afterwards) so if one source has one detail different than multiple others, why are you concentrating so much on it rather than dismissing it as human error?
An entire thread gone to shit because the mods aren't banning these conspiracy crazies.
They are literally posting that 80% of Tripoli has been taken over by Gaddaffi...you just can't do anything against such deep seated idiocy. Even if you refute their idiotic claims wich have not a single relation to the real world or anything resembling logic they refuse to acknowledge it and just post more garbage.
You think this Aurocaido guy is ever going to say sorry for linking to a bullshit story about how Tripoli is taken over by Gaddaffi? Ofcourse not, just like how noone of those people admitted their mistake when they linked to RT sources claiming the rebels were nowhere near Tripoli and the gunfire that was heard was actually a celebration.
Auro and his kind refuse to acknowledge their mistakes and refuse to acknowledge how again and again the stories they link to are proven to be completly false. Regardless of what is said to them they continue to spout their filth over the topic. They allready ruined this topic.
You used to be able to get into this topic and get actuall news about Libya. Now you get conspiracy idiots posting how Gaddaffi forces are marching on Washington DC only interupted by them screaming "DUH MEDIAH LIEZ!" when someone points out their countless falsehoods.
Is it really going to be TL policy to allow a dedicated group of 3-4 morons to polute a thread to the point where any and all value it could provide is gone? One cannot have a debate in this cesspool, one cannot find news in this garbage pit.
Every single somewhat controversial topic is going to be at risk from these people. Want to talk about any war? Have some reports on the NWO. Want to talk about the economic crisis? Matter of time till someone talks about how the Illuminati/Rothsteins are causing it.
This topic should be a good example why these people should not be given a forum to speak on. Because they shit all over the forum they get.
EPT
