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On January 05 2011 16:14 stevarius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 15:57 Gummy wrote:
I went into college with real, employable skills. I'm in my 3rd year and thanks to a lot of the classes I take, I have those same (albeit somewhat diminished from lack of use) skills. Now, though, I can talk with the high-brow arrogance of an ivy-educated douchebag. But deep down inside, my dreams and self-esteem have been crushed. Sometimes I secretly wish I'd just taken a few relevant courses at a community college instead of spending >200k on a brand-name school. I can't imagine spending 200k on school. At MOST I will be in debt to about 35k, but that doesn't account for the Georgia HOPE I'm about to receive which will make it less than half that. Unfortunately, I went in to college unsure of what to do and that cost me some time and money, but now that I am 100% sure of what I want to do, I'm going to do it even if it takes me 5 years to complete as opposed to the 'normal' 4 years if I had known what I wanted to do. Either way, I'm learning stuff and the degree I'm choosing is directly applicable and helpful in my future career field. -New Computer Sci Major I look at it this way, I can either be taught and get a foundation of knowledge taught to me or I can take a gamble and try to teach it to myself when I have little to no understanding of everything involved and what I need to succeed. For me, the cost of college is nothing compared to what I'm prepared to gain.
I can't imange spending 200k unless it was grad school, for basic degress, community and state college is good enough.
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On January 05 2011 11:36 teh leet newb wrote:
This is a meaningless question. What's much more important is "what do you want to do with your life"? If the answer is something like doctor, engineer, lawyer, banker, scientist, etc., it's impossible without a college education. Find out what you want to do, and find out what kind of education/experience you need to get there. Don't just consider short term; think about the next 5, 10, and even 20 years of your life. Beyond providing academic education, higher education also allows your discover yourself and realize what you're good at.
As for money, you should consider financial aid and scholarships. You can also have a part-time or even full-time job while going to school.
this is where many people fall short of their goals. How the heck are you supposed to know what you're good at. There are so many paths to choose from, so no, don't look for what you're good at, just find what you're interested in. Barely 1% of the population ever finds their perfect fit, society is made up of people falling short of their goals and settling in a lesser career.
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well in short, a degree from a university is not the easy answer for a comfortable money situation. being able to budget is. and if you are going into computer science you are , in my opinion much better served starting in a community college where your tution expenses actually are faverable in comparison to projected income after graduation.
if your goal is simply to make the most money possible the easyiest way possible at something you sorta enjoy,finding the CHEAPEST edjucation is the best bet. be it certifications, an associates or what have you. contrary to what most people believe the name of the school has no bearing whatsoever on your future income i recently read about a study in which the average ivy league graduate earns no more (on average) than a community college graduate for comparable degrees. while the ivy leaguer is now in debt around $60,000-$100,000 compared to the 10,000-25,000 of the community college grad. this is a HUGE difference in money especially when the average IT position is around 60k a year.
even when looking at degrees the average increase of pay between having an associates compared to a bachelors is not enough to pay for the difference in education costs.
for any job beyond entry level SOME education beyond high school is almost a definite necessity. it is more of a formality to prove that you have the drive to succeed that companies would look for along with some sort of proof that you have an idea of what you are doing.
now if you expect to be some sort of entrepreneur or amazing businessman then more education is definitely better, a four year college benefits you not only with the knowledge and "paper proof"of that knowledge but gives the chance to grow as a person and learn how to be a responsible adult, and with drive you will succeed at whatever you want and money will be no object.
thats my take on it. either get the cheapest education possible if you just want to make ~100,000 a year or go all out and stick with it to get a masters or doctorate in a good school and open your self up to a life of constant struggle to achieve more.
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Fearus said it the most correct (In my opinion, on first page ^_^)
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College is very good to have on your resume. Furthermore it opens up co-ops and internships that normally people your age would not be able to apply for. Make sure you do those, as just a degree is not nearly as good as degree + work experience at pretigious companies that come to schools scouting for talent.
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University is by no means necessary, but in the meantime it is, here let me explain what I mean by that. If you just got out of high school, and are out into the real world, and have to decide which route to take in life, you need to consider your skills and what you are capable of. Here are a couple of examples of what I mean by that.
Example 1:
You weren't very popular in HS, you didn't make a lot of friends, so you don't have many connections made. The only people you know are via the internet, but they cannot help you in any way for you to be able to sustain your life on your own without the help of your parents/guardians and relatives. You don't have a particular set of skills which would encourage an employer to hire you, and you can't start your own business; find a way to make money on your own. So the only things left for you to do are either go to a university or find a minimum wage job near your home, because you need a way to make money. In this case the person would need to attend a university/a higher school in order to be able to make it in life. Or they can also consider joining the military, but they would need to be in excellent shape to do this.
Example 2:
You just graduated HS. You made a lot of friends that you still keep in contact with, and you are a very good construction worker. You have been involved in this field since early age and are as talented and experienced as most post-university students. Your friends also have a particular set of skills that they can use in order to make money, so you work together with them by offering your services for a decent pay, and are able to make as much money as a grad student. In this case you don't need a university.
tldr; if you have connections//skills of some kind then you don't particuarly need a degree in order to make it into the real world, but if you are not skilled in anything/don't know many ways from which you can earn money//make a living, then a university would be your best bet for a better life. It all depends on the person involved.
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You can learn anything by experience and get any job if you manage to show that you know your stuff. A university degree improves your chances since it says "you know at least enough to pass", making employers favour you to someone who claims to have X years experience who does _not_ manage to show what he knows.
Employers actually don't care about degrees or experience, they care about people knowing enough to do their job good. Degrees and experience gives them the hint that you fit the requirement and reduce the risk in employing you and finding out that you are a total scrub. This is a reason why people with degrees usually get higher starting salary, the risk is just lower. It evens out over time.
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Not for me...I'm hoping to get into concept art....I can self-study if needed.
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Where is the poll option for "I have graduated, and I have my degree"?
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even if university does not add much to your human capital, it is a strong signaling effect to tell others that you are good particular if you are graduating from a famous school.
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Dear OP,
I had thought throughout my life that I wanted to program video games for a living; deciding on computer science as a good career path. In high school I was a nerdy kid and somewhat of an outcast. I had only three people I could call my good friends that I hung out with frequently.
After high school I got myself a job and moved out shortly after turning 18 to experience living on my own and to see what that would be like without college. I must admit I hated working the low end job but the year I spent working I met many many more people, my social life exploded. I made some decent cash too, but I decided I wanted to go after my dream.
So I started going to Metro State College of Denver for a computer science degree, and I immediately hated it. I had taken a couple of classes in high school learning Java and the way basic Cisco systems operated, but I did not like the courses in the college I was attending. So I switched majors to Finance. I did enjoy myself a little better, but my heart is still not in it, and I no longer feel that pursuing a degree is the right choice for me.
Going to college during this time in my life feels like more of a waste than a benefit. I find the system of getting degrees confusing, and abstract, I honestly didn't know what to expect from college. I still don't understand what it is I'm getting from my degree other than proof that I can show up on time regularly, complete tasks assigned, follow instruction, and learn some general education about the subject you're interested in along the way. Which is obviously a good thing to be able to prove, but to me not worth the price tag.
So now I want to pursue my creative interests. I don't know where this path will take me and it certainly may be a harder path to take instead of college. If I do well and get promoted before long with a part time job I could afford go after my interests in an attempt to bolster my income.
Most people out of high school don't know what they want to do. They might have an idea, but more often than not they find out that's not at all what they are interested in. Sometimes that isn't until they rack up some debt and waste a year or two in college. It's not the end of the world if you have to take a year or two off to help support your family. You might find a different part of yourself during that time, and your attitude towards college may change. It will still always be an option.
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Where is the poll for I already attended a college or university?
Also, I believe it is not necessary to attend one to be successful. And of course, as you mentioned, success is relative to your own goals. You don't need a degree to live a full and happy life, but it usually does help.
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I got a master degree in business intelligence, and currently works as a consultant. I don't really enjoy it. I'm going to open a restaurant next year, which basically doesn't require any degree. The point is, if I had done a vocational training diploma in the food sector when I was 16 instead of long studies, I would have ended up as a cook at the local canteen.
My master degree gave me the opportunity to expatriate myself in Shanghai, to understand how to run a business properly, it gave me more ambition.
Were my studies interesting ? No.
Do I like the job that fits the best what I studied ? Not really.
But I do not regret studying at all, and it gave me so many opportunities that I can't advice anyone not to study.
To reply your question, my real passion is gastronomy, and even though I got a good salary and live in a great apartment with my wife, I don't really consider myself as "successful" as a business intelligence consultant. I don't get any satisfaction from my job. I will feel successful when people will leave my restaurant with a smile, glad to have had a nice dinner. So the answer for me is that you have to study if it's the only way for you to do your dream job. As I said if I had just done a vocational training I would be a poor cook at the local high school canteen now 
You're interested in web design, I think Spartan on TL (the guy who always advertises for his fastest map ladder) got a great job as a web designer, and he doesn't have much degrees, but he's quite talented and got a nice portfolio.
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Explaining why everyone here gave you the answers they gave.
"...a large part of education at the really elite institutions is simply refinement, teaching the social graces: what kind of clothes you should wear, how to drink port the right way, how to have polite conversation without talking about serious topics, but of course indicating that you could talk about serious topics if you were so vulgar as to actually do it..."
"...the 1930s were a period of major labor strife and labor struggles in the U.S., and it was scaring the daylights out of the whole business community here--because labor was finally winning the right to organize... Harvard introduced a "Trade Union Program." What it did was to bring in rising young people in the labor movement--you know, the guy who looks like he's going to be the Local president next year--and have them stay in dorms in the Business School, and put them through the a while socialization process, help them come to share some of the values and understandings of the elite... meanwhile business is fighting a vicious class war on the side. And that effort to socialize and integrate union activists--well, I've never measured its success, but I'm sure it was very successful."
"...a black civil rights activist who came to study at Harvard Law School... gave a talk in which he described how kids starting off at Harvard Law School come in with long hair and backpacks and social ideals, they're all going to go into public service law to change the world and so on--that's the first year. Around springtime, the recruiters come for the cushy summer jobs in the Wall Street Law firms, and these students figure, "What the heck, I can put on a tie and a jacket and shave for one day, just because I need that money and why shouldn't I have it?" So they put on the tie and the jacket for that one day, and they get the job, and then they go off for the summer--and when they come back in the fall, it's ties, and jackets, and obedience, a shift of ideology"
Book: "Understanding power: the indispensable Chomsky"
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I plan on going to gradschool so it matters a lot to me now..... I think it is important so far as to set you up for your first job. This includes getting internships, research, honors, and your interview for the job. You need good grades for all of these, and your first job and how you do in it will really matter in the long run IMO.
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I'm attending but only as an excuse to get student loans since I'm way too lazy to work a 10$/Hour job.
I have no idea wtf I'm doing, I'll probably never finish and I don't see any other viable options, nothing interests me other than stuff I'm way too dumb for...
Baww
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99.99% of successful person graduated. So don't take risk, get a degree.
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mmm, no
I don't even see the connection.
So far I haven't even heard of a succesful life.
We are all failures, all we can do is to fail in an entertaining fashion.
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On January 05 2011 19:50 Switch221 wrote:
So now I want to pursue my creative interests. I don't know where this path will take me and it certainly may be a harder path to take instead of college. If I do well and get promoted before long with a part time job I could afford go after my interests in an attempt to bolster my income.
Yeah man, I'm right there with you, gl!
To the OP, depends what your goals are, what your idea of success is. For me, it seems like all my idols (writers, comedians, musicians) are telling me to get the fuck out of education, so I did. My family don't understand why I don't want the same things they do, but my friends know me better and understand completely so it's all good.
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On January 05 2011 20:47 pedduck wrote:
99.99% of successful person graduated. So don't take risk, get a degree.
Define successful?
People who get degrees are most likely going to learn a cookie-cutter skill then sit at a desk doing what a boss tells them to. There are obvious exceptions.
The people that "suceed" are the ones that manage to take what they love and turn it into a career. People with that sort of ambition and confidence don't need a degree anyway (even though they probably have one).
It's just much easier to slot into society having gone to University. You make contacts and learn a lot of things that quite frankly you should have been taught at school but didn't. But it definitely isn't a neccessity.
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EPT
