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On January 06 2011 11:02 Nevermind86 wrote:Show nested quote +Think about how much time you dedicate to extracurriculars and just wasting time. At least 25 hours/week I'd say. Cut in on some sleep and you're set. If I-Bankers can work 80-100 hours a week, you can probably push yourself through a full-time job and school if you try hard enough. This guy just described the history of my life, I'm going to tell you why this is completely wrong, okay here I go: When I was 18 years old I had a job as an assistant computer technician, I was making good money for my age but also I had enough free time to hang out with my friends, practice judo/jiu jitsu and play a lot of wc3, at some point I even became pretty good at that game. I consider myself a smart person, I knew that if I kept putting dedication to my job I could become really good at it, save some money and end up running my own business in around 3 years, that could have been a good path in life. But my family and especially society sells an idea of "succesful man", as an old fat dude in a suit saying he's important. I wanted big things back then, so I decided to go to university to become a lawyer, but because it was really expensive I had to work in a full time job all those years. I became a good friend of one of my professors, he knew about my dedication, so he helped me get a full time job in a big lawfirm before graduating. It was like a dream. In reality it was exhausting, working there sucked any life I still had left, my day would be wake up 6:30 am or earlier to be at work at 7:30 am, get out of work at 6 pm, then go to university until 10 or 11 pm, and repeat. Weekends were just sleeping too much and too much internet. Here I am now, I'm 25 years old, I graduated as a lawyer finally in august 2010, the lawfirm offered me a job as a fulltime lawyer there since I've worked for them for already 2 years. Finally I could have my big fucking audi in no time, think about it, it's a fucking audi!! I decided to quit the lawfirm after a few months of taking people's houses for not paying their mortgages, if they had kids or not, if they were sick or not, if they were crying or not it was my duty to take their houses because the banks CEO's need more money. I look back at my years in the university and all I see is I never had a real girlfriend, never went to parties worth remenbering, my vacations was staying home because university is too expensive rather than traveling through europe or argentina or whatever. If you ask anyone which years of their life were the best ones, we can be sure everyone would agree about being 18-25, but I completely wasted it, if I could go back in time would I do it completely different? I'm pretty fucking sure.
I think your unhappiness stems from you choosing a career path that was something you didn't want to do. You must have known about it well before you started your job. Think about if you chose a profession that you actually enjoyed. Even if you had to work your ass off to pay for your education, you'd probably be glad you did. Also, didn't your university have financial aid? School is expensive, but most have generous financial aid for people who can't afford it.
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On January 06 2011 11:02 Nevermind86 wrote:Show nested quote +Think about how much time you dedicate to extracurriculars and just wasting time. At least 25 hours/week I'd say. Cut in on some sleep and you're set. If I-Bankers can work 80-100 hours a week, you can probably push yourself through a full-time job and school if you try hard enough. This guy just described the history of my life, I'm going to tell you why this is completely wrong, okay here I go: When I was 18 years old I had a job as an assistant computer technician, I was making good money for my age but also I had enough free time to hang out with my friends, practice judo/jiu jitsu and play a lot of wc3, at some point I even became pretty good at that game. I consider myself a smart person, I knew that if I kept putting dedication to my job I could become really good at it, save some money and end up running my own business in around 3 years, that could have been a good path in life. But my family and especially society sells an idea of "succesful man", as an old fat dude in a suit saying he's important. I wanted big things back then, so I decided to go to university to become a lawyer, but because it was really expensive I had to work in a full time job all those years. I became a good friend of one of my professors, he knew about my dedication, so he helped me get a full time job in a big lawfirm before graduating. It was like a dream. In reality it was exhausting, working there sucked any life I still had left, my day would be wake up 6:30 am or earlier to be at work at 7:30 am, get out of work at 6 pm, then go to university until 10 or 11 pm, and repeat. Weekends were just sleeping too much and too much internet. Here I am now, I'm 25 years old, I graduated as a lawyer finally in august 2010, the lawfirm offered me a job as a fulltime lawyer there since I've worked for them for already 2 years. Finally I could have my big fucking audi in no time, think about it, it's a fucking audi!! I decided to quit the lawfirm after a few months of taking people's houses for not paying their mortgages, if they had kids or not, if they were sick or not, if they were crying or not it was my duty to take their houses because the banks CEO's need more money. I look back at my years in the university and all I see is I never had a real girlfriend, never went to parties worth remenbering, my vacations was staying home because university is too expensive rather than traveling through europe or argentina or whatever. If you ask anyone which years of their life were the best ones, we can be sure everyone would agree about being 18-25, but I completely wasted it, if I could go back in time would I do it completely different? I'm pretty fucking sure.
What are you going to do next?
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Gonna writte an epic book and somehow manage to be the next Jim Morrison, I saved some money so I don't have to work for a few months, I've read a lot of good books, went back to full time jiu jitsu training, I'm learning french, hanging around a lot with my old friends and going to the beach any day I want and making plans to visit argentina later this year. I'm going to start a small food business with my younger brother, if I told my former boss I go to the beach on mondays, he would probably kill me out of frustration, poor dude works more than 12 hours a day, seeing his life is what made me change 
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I saw that is a necessity in this world right now.. especially with the way the economy is, and if you want a good professional job, you're gonna have to school for a worthwhile major.
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Personally I think going to University opened up a lot of options for me in the future.
I'm enrolled in a co-op program which makes me graduate later but I get plenty of applicable work experience while I study. I study for 4 months and then work for 4 months and repeat until I've worked for 6 semesters in total and studied for 8 semesters.
Sometimes I do lose my rhythm because I switch sceneries all the time but overall I think its worth it because once I graduate I'll have the work experience edge over typical new graduates. Plus I'm not as in much school debt as I get paid in co-op. I'm not very well off so after school loans I have just enough for tuition and rent and a little bit of spending money. Granted, we all have to earn our co-op jobs ourselves by going through a grueling interview process during semesters of study - so I'm already competing against my peers.
And its this competition that kind of pushes me to strive for higher (Getting better grades, being more involved in extra-curriculars) to have a better resume to compete for jobs. I'm studying Math/Business and to be honest, I still don't know what I want to do with my life because my program is so broad. The work experiences I've gathered really give me a good glimpse of the working / business world nonetheless and I'm starting to have a better idea now.
University is also a good place to develop your personal network for the future. I've made a lot of friends here in university, and its been really fun working with them in team environments in extra-curriculars. In addition, leaving home for the first time allowed me to learn to take care of myself without mommy and daddy.
Certainly there are infinite paths to reaching where you want to go, but I think the one that I'm on now probably saved me a lot of pain and suffering had I not chosen to go to University. I agree that University isn't for everyone but regardless of what you do, if you try your best I don't see why you won't succeed wherever you go. Just make good use of the limited time that you have.
I think I'll really miss University when I finally graduate.
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You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Go to college, there will be more doors open for you when you graduate than if you choose not to go.
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I am currently enrolled in a university but I do not think that a university degree is a necessity. I do think that a university degree does give you a lot of options in regards to what you can do to lead a comfortable life though.
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A lot of wealthy people I know claim university is a waste. I agree that University is overrated but unless you are either extremely sociable and likable and know almost everyone with money or get really lucky you are not going to land a job that pays a really good salary. University helps you put your foot in the door and make the contacts you will need for future life to get a decent job.
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On January 05 2011 23:37 Adeeler wrote:
For certain fields its very necessary. But for something like computer science I would say no, in fact i'd say it would hinder you more in the current climate then anything else. You would be better off working yourself to learn everything you need while working from the bottom up.
If you do go to university you'll simply learn slower, but you'd build contacts/friends. But you would achieve more learning yourself.
Only if you went to a university which you knew was leading in the field and would teach you what you'd end up using in the industry in x years would it ever be worth it.
Currently I know 7+ programming languages and systems I'll never need thanks to pointless forced modules in them at university. Plan what you want to do in the future and look at what the job listings say they want for those listings and learn that yourself and you'd do well with making a portfolio.
I have a hard time believing this. In fact, I would have ventured to say the opposite: that most degrees are basically worthless, save those that have to do with engineering/science. (and medicine/law of course). Sure, you can learn all that stuff on your own, but you can do that with anything. All you have to do is buy a few books on it. But I don't think that is going to work when you go in for job interviews.
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On January 06 2011 13:10 Lowkin wrote:
A lot of wealthy people I know claim university is a waste. I agree that University is overrated but unless you are either extremely sociable and likable and know almost everyone with money or get really lucky you are not going to land a job that pays a really good salary. University helps you put your foot in the door and make the contacts you will need for future life to get a decent job.
I also think that university helps make you a well rounded person. It's easy to get loans if not scholarships for, and generally isn't THAT expensive. Enjoy your youth while you have it, take interesting classes, make friends, find some romance. Most people polled say their best years were in college. There isn't any doubt in my mind that for the vast majority of people college also improves their career prospects, but even if not... do it for the experience.
People who start working right out of high school seriously miss out.
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On January 05 2011 23:37 Hikko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 20:09 forkleaf wrote:
Explaining why everyone here gave you the answers they gave.
"...a large part of education at the really elite institutions is simply refinement, teaching the social graces: what kind of clothes you should wear, how to drink port the right way, how to have polite conversation without talking about serious topics, but of course indicating that you could talk about serious topics if you were so vulgar as to actually do it..."
"...the 1930s were a period of major labor strife and labor struggles in the U.S., and it was scaring the daylights out of the whole business community here--because labor was finally winning the right to organize... Harvard introduced a "Trade Union Program." What it did was to bring in rising young people in the labor movement--you know, the guy who looks like he's going to be the Local president next year--and have them stay in dorms in the Business School, and put them through the a while socialization process, help them come to share some of the values and understandings of the elite... meanwhile business is fighting a vicious class war on the side. And that effort to socialize and integrate union activists--well, I've never measured its success, but I'm sure it was very successful."
"...a black civil rights activist who came to study at Harvard Law School... gave a talk in which he described how kids starting off at Harvard Law School come in with long hair and backpacks and social ideals, they're all going to go into public service law to change the world and so on--that's the first year. Around springtime, the recruiters come for the cushy summer jobs in the Wall Street Law firms, and these students figure, "What the heck, I can put on a tie and a jacket and shave for one day, just because I need that money and why shouldn't I have it?" So they put on the tie and the jacket for that one day, and they get the job, and then they go off for the summer--and when they come back in the fall, it's ties, and jackets, and obedience, a shift of ideology"
Book: "Understanding power: the indispensable Chomsky" the third shows that the students got a reality check that they can't have a full beard, look like a hippie, and use lots of drugs if they wanted to have a real job in the field of law.
Translation
Hikko: "You need to learn to socialize properly and serve the masters of the universe letting the rich and powerful do as they please."
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It depends on the field you want to enter. There is nobody who can argue with me that overall, those who go straight into the workforce earn a higher mean salary over those who go to university or college for a Bachelors, or even possibly a Masters.
I believe the statistics say that those who go to a 4-year university on average earn about $1,000,000 more over their lifetime than those who go straight into the workforce.
In actuality, you learn more by just working, and having real-world experience (I am a Finance major and let me tell you, they teach you nothing of real relativity past Sophomore year in college that will pertain to your career; everything you learn is from internships and real-world experience). It is that paper degree that we go to universities for, and that is the norm in the world.
So, to conclude, go to university, and become more educated. America ranks 27th/29th on the list of the most developed nations in terms of education standards. We are stupid as hell.
Gogo study!
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On January 06 2011 13:26 forkleaf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 23:37 Hikko wrote:On January 05 2011 20:09 forkleaf wrote:
Explaining why everyone here gave you the answers they gave.
"...a large part of education at the really elite institutions is simply refinement, teaching the social graces: what kind of clothes you should wear, how to drink port the right way, how to have polite conversation without talking about serious topics, but of course indicating that you could talk about serious topics if you were so vulgar as to actually do it..."
"...the 1930s were a period of major labor strife and labor struggles in the U.S., and it was scaring the daylights out of the whole business community here--because labor was finally winning the right to organize... Harvard introduced a "Trade Union Program." What it did was to bring in rising young people in the labor movement--you know, the guy who looks like he's going to be the Local president next year--and have them stay in dorms in the Business School, and put them through the a while socialization process, help them come to share some of the values and understandings of the elite... meanwhile business is fighting a vicious class war on the side. And that effort to socialize and integrate union activists--well, I've never measured its success, but I'm sure it was very successful."
"...a black civil rights activist who came to study at Harvard Law School... gave a talk in which he described how kids starting off at Harvard Law School come in with long hair and backpacks and social ideals, they're all going to go into public service law to change the world and so on--that's the first year. Around springtime, the recruiters come for the cushy summer jobs in the Wall Street Law firms, and these students figure, "What the heck, I can put on a tie and a jacket and shave for one day, just because I need that money and why shouldn't I have it?" So they put on the tie and the jacket for that one day, and they get the job, and then they go off for the summer--and when they come back in the fall, it's ties, and jackets, and obedience, a shift of ideology"
Book: "Understanding power: the indispensable Chomsky" the third shows that the students got a reality check that they can't have a full beard, look like a hippie, and use lots of drugs if they wanted to have a real job in the field of law. Translation Hikko: "You need to learn to socialize properly and serve the masters of the universe letting the rich and powerful do as they please."
Reality eventually educates idealists who actually expose themselves to it.
Don't believe everything you read, man.
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You dont need a degree to be successful in life. My friends dad has millions and he was just a poor italian immigrant who oponed up a resturaunt and made bank on it. Degree certainly helps, but i wouldnt call it neccacarry
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On January 06 2011 13:33 NotGood- wrote:
You dont need a degree to be successful in life. My friends dad has millions and he was just a poor italian immigrant who oponed up a resturaunt and made bank on it. Degree certainly helps, but i wouldnt call it neccacarry
You make it sound like just anybody can open up a restaurant and make a huge profit on it. In reality, that's not the case. Your friend's dad just got really lucky. You cannot count on something like that, which is why you go to a university. It gives you stability and something you can rely on.
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If you have the opportunity to go to school and become educated, do so. What you get out of college is dependant on what you put into it, and make sure to engage your professors instead of relying on the lectures only.
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In my opinion, you learn how to think in university if you take a decent degree. I'm sure that a lot of the people who say that they wasted their time don't realize how much they take for granted. Hell, I know that my previous courses seem like a piece of cake (even if they seemed hard back then) now that my thinking has matured a bit. It also takes a while to emotionally mature (for most people) and it's better to do it in a looser environment than at the workplace.
University is what you make of it. Be smart, make friends and have fun, get top marks in a well-respected major, look for good summer jobs, and network in your 3rd and 4th years for employment. Don't underestimate the value of having peers around to talk to when things go shitty. I think that not going to university is a very high variance decision with a lower expected value than going to university. That is not to say that you can't do well without a degree, but don't be surprised if you drop out and then completely bomb.
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On January 06 2011 13:26 forkleaf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 23:37 Hikko wrote:On January 05 2011 20:09 forkleaf wrote:
Explaining why everyone here gave you the answers they gave.
"...a large part of education at the really elite institutions is simply refinement, teaching the social graces: what kind of clothes you should wear, how to drink port the right way, how to have polite conversation without talking about serious topics, but of course indicating that you could talk about serious topics if you were so vulgar as to actually do it..."
"...the 1930s were a period of major labor strife and labor struggles in the U.S., and it was scaring the daylights out of the whole business community here--because labor was finally winning the right to organize... Harvard introduced a "Trade Union Program." What it did was to bring in rising young people in the labor movement--you know, the guy who looks like he's going to be the Local president next year--and have them stay in dorms in the Business School, and put them through the a while socialization process, help them come to share some of the values and understandings of the elite... meanwhile business is fighting a vicious class war on the side. And that effort to socialize and integrate union activists--well, I've never measured its success, but I'm sure it was very successful."
"...a black civil rights activist who came to study at Harvard Law School... gave a talk in which he described how kids starting off at Harvard Law School come in with long hair and backpacks and social ideals, they're all going to go into public service law to change the world and so on--that's the first year. Around springtime, the recruiters come for the cushy summer jobs in the Wall Street Law firms, and these students figure, "What the heck, I can put on a tie and a jacket and shave for one day, just because I need that money and why shouldn't I have it?" So they put on the tie and the jacket for that one day, and they get the job, and then they go off for the summer--and when they come back in the fall, it's ties, and jackets, and obedience, a shift of ideology"
Book: "Understanding power: the indispensable Chomsky" the third shows that the students got a reality check that they can't have a full beard, look like a hippie, and use lots of drugs if they wanted to have a real job in the field of law. Translation Hikko: "You need to learn to socialize properly and serve the masters of the universe letting the rich and powerful do as they please."
Still waiting for a leader of a Western country to be elected who looks like this.
![[image loading]](http://postcardjunky.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/homeless-man-goes-online1.jpg)
Until then, have fun trying to get a job that pays anything above minimum wage because you refuse to practice good hygiene and shave in order to prove you're so hip.
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On January 06 2011 13:56 Hikko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 13:26 forkleaf wrote:On January 05 2011 23:37 Hikko wrote:On January 05 2011 20:09 forkleaf wrote:
Explaining why everyone here gave you the answers they gave.
"...a large part of education at the really elite institutions is simply refinement, teaching the social graces: what kind of clothes you should wear, how to drink port the right way, how to have polite conversation without talking about serious topics, but of course indicating that you could talk about serious topics if you were so vulgar as to actually do it..."
"...the 1930s were a period of major labor strife and labor struggles in the U.S., and it was scaring the daylights out of the whole business community here--because labor was finally winning the right to organize... Harvard introduced a "Trade Union Program." What it did was to bring in rising young people in the labor movement--you know, the guy who looks like he's going to be the Local president next year--and have them stay in dorms in the Business School, and put them through the a while socialization process, help them come to share some of the values and understandings of the elite... meanwhile business is fighting a vicious class war on the side. And that effort to socialize and integrate union activists--well, I've never measured its success, but I'm sure it was very successful."
"...a black civil rights activist who came to study at Harvard Law School... gave a talk in which he described how kids starting off at Harvard Law School come in with long hair and backpacks and social ideals, they're all going to go into public service law to change the world and so on--that's the first year. Around springtime, the recruiters come for the cushy summer jobs in the Wall Street Law firms, and these students figure, "What the heck, I can put on a tie and a jacket and shave for one day, just because I need that money and why shouldn't I have it?" So they put on the tie and the jacket for that one day, and they get the job, and then they go off for the summer--and when they come back in the fall, it's ties, and jackets, and obedience, a shift of ideology"
Book: "Understanding power: the indispensable Chomsky" the third shows that the students got a reality check that they can't have a full beard, look like a hippie, and use lots of drugs if they wanted to have a real job in the field of law. Translation Hikko: "You need to learn to socialize properly and serve the masters of the universe letting the rich and powerful do as they please." Still waiting for a leader of a Western country to be elected who looks like this. Until then, have fun trying to get a job that pays anything above minimum wage because you refuse to practice good hygiene and shave in order to prove you're so hip.
Its interesting that of ALL possible images to nonchalantly use you pick the homeless guy.
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I logged in first time in ages just to post something in here.I don`t really understand why are you all so hyped about getting a job? And almost no one wants workers?:o
I mean it`s horryfing for me ( was , i worked for 3 months normal job - and it was easy as fuck at that- wouldn`t never do it again just because i hate waking up/doing what someone tells me to do). Why not just try starting anything on your own ? I really don`t belive you can`t get any money to start if you wanna go to collage ( and trust me , you don`t need a fuckton if you actually can put in some work/have some decent ideas) and not do anything else and I know from mine and other close people experience that if you started anything remotely succesful , in the long run (and even not that long, depending on what and how you do it obv.) it`s gonna crush uni financially and freedom-wise. Where am i wrong? I know that`s my way and I plan on not doing anything anymore in say 10-15 yrs ( I`m 24 now). I mean - what`s better and what else gives me even a possibility like this?
And to the above poster (Xanbatou): Yes , it does work like this. Most people just need to be told what they need to do, that`s it. But every single person I know who had a bit of brain and really did want achieve something - did it (with some twists or not, but eventually) . Also , I know that there are people who just got it and they can make money out of thin air if you give them time and some resources ( I know at least 2 people like this,they basically have millions of good , working ideas and drive to make them reality)
And I`m from country so fucked up I just don`t belive it`s worse in states when it comes to starting business ( Poland ,we need 30 days to register anything , come on) but gotta give the other side of the story that the society likes under the table deals so that helps 
Also, afaik a typical food stand in a decent location makes more than someone starting with a standard college degree ( I can bet money on this one, at least 100% its like this here, and am sure in europe it`s even better, considering their wages/ food prices) .I mean , what`s the deal with you guys wanting to work and listen to some idiot (who btw probably makes less than the guy selling kebabs across the street in his OWN stand, lol + the kebab guy can open up a chain eventually and not give a shit ,what can you get- a promotion - give me a break). Please someone explain as it`s more and more common i see ( not that i`d complain , water on my mill :D)
edit : typos and last paragraph
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EPT
