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On January 05 2011 23:21 ZeromuS wrote:
I need to point out in a seperate reply that in my field (Criminal Justice) You need to get more than just an undergraduate degree to do the better paying jobs in the field. As a result I am taking a Masters and keep this in mind with your program you may or may not take. My girlfriends dad is a rocket scientist (actually and truly he works with things going out to space as an engineer) and does so with an undergrad only and he dropped out of graduate school. This was back in the late 70s/early 80s though so times have changed and people often need more than the degree he has to do his job now without the many many years of experience he has.
This sort of thing used to be common as it was tough to get university grads into jobs. Some very prominent scientists in the US and Canadian government don't have degrees.
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It's not necessary, but it certainly helps when you need to appear more educated or experienced. Like at most first or second job interviews.
It probably depends on what you're looking to do in the future, and where you're from.
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Its really about networking and proving yourself. A college degree proves to people who don't know you that you're intelligent and can achieve your goals. Also, paying a few extra thousand for a degree from some top-notch university will make your CV a heck of a lot more appealing. Again, with or without degree, its all about networking and proving yourself.
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not necessity at all but without a real good plan youd pretty much be a moron to not do it
opening your own business is pretty fucking hard. trade jobs arent exactly all over the place these days and even if you do land one, you have a very specialized skill set. at the very least, a bachelor's will typically get you at least considered for any random decently paying office gig
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if you are as talented as this guy, then i guess you have the liberty to skip universirty imo.otherwise it's just a big stupid mistake.
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The problem is there are a ton of jobs out there where you don't REALLY need a college education to do them, but the employer lists that as a requirement in order to have a lazy weed-out tool for applicants.
In America, there are tons of kids going to college who frankly have no business being there but were told they "have to go to college to be successful". I worry that universities will lower their standards to avoid poor graduation rates and cheapen the experience for everyone.
I wish high schools in America would have more vocational programs for those kids not in the top 30-40% but who aren't otherwise troublemakers. There's no shame in learning to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber, A/C repair man, carpenter, or any other skilled blue collar profession. Our society wouldn't function without them and many of them can actually make pretty good money. The kids in the bottom 20-30% could be factory workers and the like if we weren't so insistent on driving those types of jobs to other countries through high taxes and artificially increased labor rates...
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In the USA, college is the new high school. A lot of the good trade jobs have been outsourced, and it's hard to move up from the bottom in any career without a college degree. Take retail, for instance. If you have a shred of work ethic it's very easy to become a shift/department manager (or even a store manager, after a reasonable period of time to show a pattern of competence and responsibility), but if you want to move into a district management position or above, you're going to start competing with people who have business degrees or MBAs. If you're happy stocking shelves, changing oil, or running a cash register for the rest of your life don't go to college, but I think that eventually you'll come to a point in your life where you want a degree, and it's much easier now before you have a family to support.
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On January 05 2011 23:15 Kalingingsong wrote:
I'd say a university degree provides more of a stable life rather than a successful life. (depends on what you mean by success of course)
to be 'extremely successful' you have to be willing to take risks, and having higher education (and consequently the lure of a stable job), significantly reduces the willingness of an individual to take risks.
That's not entirely true. Even if you give examples like Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg (this is also relevant as OP is studying computer science) since they dropped out of Harvard. But they still -went- to school and it was at school where they saw the opportunities to start a business.
I would say that in today's world, a college education is a must. It can be a safety net if your gamble doesn't work out or it can be a place of inspiration. Even athletes who go on to become pros go to school on a scholarship.
We also have examples in the SC community. Day9 (math) and QXC (computer science) went to Harvey Mudd - a very good school in California and Nony went to Duke - which I'm sure you've heard of.
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On January 05 2011 11:36 teh leet newb wrote:
This is a meaningless question. What's much more important is "what do you want to do with your life"? If the answer is something like doctor, engineer, lawyer, banker, scientist, etc., it's impossible without a college education. Find out what you want to do, and find out what kind of education/experience you need to get there. Don't just consider short term; think about the next 5, 10, and even 20 years of your life. Beyond providing academic education, higher education also allows your discover yourself and realize what you're good at.
As for money, you should consider financial aid and scholarships. You can also have a part-time or even full-time job while going to school
Holy crap, this.
Also, it can be very tough to get your foot in the door to get any experience in a good field without a degree. I'd say in today's world, higher education is a necessity.
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I haven't read all the thread, so if this was already posted, I'm sorry, but an article appeared in a french newspaper in Montreal, stating someone with a degree earns in average 600k$ more than someone without one in a LIFETIME. Now, it depends if you consider that number high or not and answer for yourself.
For those wondering, I can't find the source right now, but it was published like 1-2 weeks ago in La Presse newspaper.
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No, it is not. Nobody needs to go to a university in order to live.
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On January 06 2011 03:14 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 11:36 teh leet newb wrote:
This is a meaningless question. What's much more important is "what do you want to do with your life"? If the answer is something like doctor, engineer, lawyer, banker, scientist, etc., it's impossible without a college education. Find out what you want to do, and find out what kind of education/experience you need to get there. Don't just consider short term; think about the next 5, 10, and even 20 years of your life. Beyond providing academic education, higher education also allows your discover yourself and realize what you're good at.
As for money, you should consider financial aid and scholarships. You can also have a part-time or even full-time job while going to school Holy crap, this. Also, it can be very tough to get your foot in the door to get any experience in a good field without a degree. I'd say in today's world, higher education is a necessity.
This sounds really harsh, but there are a lot of kids out there who only need high school to discover what they're good at. The reason is because they aren't good at very many things.
Just remember that for every one of you with an IQ of 130, there's someone out there with an IQ of 70.
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Some argue that the money/ time spent on a 4 year university could be spent learning a trade and earning profits instead of spending many of our years paying off university debts. I know a friend who skipped college and decided to work with his dad so he could take over. Personally i find having some sort of degree gives you a huge advantage if your life plan doesn't go the way you intended. Going back to the example of my friend what if he had some sort of injury that prevented him from doing that sort of manual labor? with no degree his options are severely limited.
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I've already graduated, there wasn't an option for that.
But as to whether or not you have to attend University to lead a successful life, you have to ask yourself:
1.) Does the job I want REQUIRE a degree? (ie. Doctor, Lawyer, Nurse, Teacher, etc.)
If Yes, Go to college
If No, Go to 2.)
2.) Will I make SIGNIFICANTLY more money in my job by having a degree?
If Yes, Go to college
If No, Don't go to college.
If you want to open your own small internet business, and you already know how to do website development, what's the point in you going to college? You're not going to not hire yourself because you don't have a degree... You're not going to pay yourself less because you don't have a degree... You will actually pay yourself more because you won't have to pay off student loans for the rest of your life.
That's my 2 copper.
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On January 06 2011 03:19 PetitCrabe wrote:
I haven't read all the thread, so if this was already posted, I'm sorry, but an article appeared in a french newspaper in Montreal, stating someone with a degree earns in average 600k$ more than someone without one in a LIFETIME. Now, it depends if you consider that number high or not and answer for yourself.
I'm not advocating the view I put forward now but...
You could do an NPV calculation for this.
- By studying you earn nothing in years 1-3
- By studying you incur debts that attract interest
- By studying your starting salary is higher and when you start work in year 4
- By studying your base salary will be higher than a person who didn't study over his whole careeer
- By not studying you earn money in years 1-3
- By not studying your savings attract interest
- By not studying you will have a lower base salary
So you would have a table that looks something like this:
![[image loading]](http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1101/study.jpg.jpg)
**Take the figures with a pinch of salt, I don't have a clue what Americans earn or pay to study!
So fiscally speaking it takes a few years to catch up since by studying you are digging yourself into a financial hole.
Of course the world isn't a financial calulation! Todays society puts pressure on you to get higher education.. Universities open up doors to jobs that could be considered more rewarding on a personal fulfillment level. At university you get to party for 3 years. And so on.
In short, going to uni depends on your amibitions and aspirations. If you ask society the consensus will be "yes". Only you can decide what the right answer is given your circumstances. (Don't forget Bill Gates is a famous uni dropout!)
BTW I have a professional qualification. I didn't go to a full time uni but got it part time. That solution was right for me.
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17017 Posts
On January 05 2011 17:49 LeSioN wrote:
if your goal is simply to make the most money possible the easyiest way possible at something you sorta enjoy,finding the CHEAPEST edjucation is the best bet. be it certifications, an associates or what have you. contrary to what most people believe the name of the school has no bearing whatsoever on your future income i recently read about a study in which the average ivy league graduate earns no more (on average) than a community college graduate for comparable degrees. while the ivy leaguer is now in debt around $60,000-$100,000 compared to the 10,000-25,000 of the community college grad. this is a HUGE difference in money especially when the average IT position is around 60k a year.
I highly doubt this.
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On January 06 2011 04:23 Deja Thoris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 03:19 PetitCrabe wrote:
I haven't read all the thread, so if this was already posted, I'm sorry, but an article appeared in a french newspaper in Montreal, stating someone with a degree earns in average 600k$ more than someone without one in a LIFETIME. Now, it depends if you consider that number high or not and answer for yourself.
I'm not advocating the view I put forward now but... You could do an NPV calculation for this. - By studying you earn nothing in years 1-3 - By studying you incur debts that attract interest - By studying your starting salary is higher and when you start work in year 4 - By studying your base salary will be higher than a person who didn't study over his whole careeer - By not studying you earn money in years 1-3 - By not studying your savings attract interest - By not studying you will have a lower base salary So you would have a table that looks something like this: **Take the figures with a pinch of salt, I don't have a clue what Americans earn or pay to study!
The problem with this is when you make that little, there's no way you're saving that much unless you're living at home, and even if you are there's still little chance that you're saving that much.
Also, the long term benefits of a college education (higher pay, job security, so many contacts that you make) vastly outweigh the 3 years you spent working for minimum wage in most situations.
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Greater earning by university graduates may be due to differences in the type of person who goes to university, not the degree itself.
There is a great debate going on over exactly what the value of Uni is - are the skills learned actually valuable, or is it just a signaling system to show you are able to work at a desk diligently?
Most degrees are fluff. Only a few, like engineering and medicine, are really valuable. Arts, social science, various political fields are all useless. Don't bother unless you live in luxury.
I am a game designer. You don't need a degree to do this. You can become a tester and move up from there.
Of course game design is kind of unique as a field since it's so new.
But in general, experience trumps education. Everyone in the software field knows that newly hired grads don't really know anything and have to be taught. If the do know something it's because of projects they did on their own time, not school.
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I think it depends on the field you are planning to go. I mean some fields, you'll need it because everyone else does, and some wont. But really, how can it hurt?
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17017 Posts
On January 06 2011 06:15 WhoaDrugs wrote:
I think it depends on the field you are planning to go. I mean some fields, you'll need it because everyone else does, and some wont. But really, how can it hurt?
You could have wasted four years of your life getting an art history degree when you could've been working, and then graduate with an unemployable degree while being mired in student loan debt.
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EPT
