EPT[D] strippers at my 5 year reunion - Page 12
| Forum Index > General Forum |
|
FragKrag
United States11554 Posts
| ||
|
B.I.G.
3251 Posts
| ||
|
Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
| ||
|
Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
On December 15 2010 05:20 Hawk wrote: Would this be more appropriate for you stripper haters?? They need jobs too. http://io9.com/5713121/i-paid-a-woman-to-be-my-friend-at-a-tokyo-maid-cafe "Stripper haters" is an unfortunately formulation, as no one has said anything bad about the strippers themselves, but I can see how "people who dislike the concept of strippers" would sound a bit strange  As for the paid fried thing, I think it depends entirely on how it's done. As such, people getting together is a very good thing, and introducing payment as a way for people to spend time together without too much after-thought could lead to some good things. Let me give you an example. While the concept of mail-order brides as such is terrible, it can create some interesting situations that break some barriers. Some insecure British working-guy in his thirties is terribly lonely, socially awkward and needs company, and some poor Russian beauty hestitantly agrees to be his partner. As a results of feeling a bit used in the situation and feeling bad about uprooting without attaching any particular value to her new home, the woman is very standoffish. For her own dignity, she makes it clear that she will not in any way by physical or intimate unless he wants to. She constantly cusses at the guy, despite being willing to help out with some domestic duties. The guy simply appreciates her presence, and is learning to deal with the challenge of living with another person on a daily basis. The guy wants to get close to her, but is too careful to try anything. This keeps up for a few months. This pattern eventually turns into a normal routine, and they end up getting more comfortable with each other. The Russian woman softens up a bit and starts to trust the guy not to make her feel indignified. Eventually, they both grow from the situation and are better off. Similarly, it could be a Thai woman coming to USA as the mail-order bride of an charming American guy who has a particular fancy for Thai women. This guy is fairly confident, knows what he wants, and, while not explicitly, is able to pressure the Thai woman into doing all the domestic chores and having sex with him whenever he wants, because she would be thrown out of the country if they seperate. The Thai woman feels that, overall, she is better off, because she now has more personal and economic liberties, but as the same time she feels bad about being in a situation where she has to repress herself. That would be a negative example. Similarly, the employees at the "Maid Café" might find themselves enjoying this completely non-commiting but friendly interaction with others. They might find that they are expanding their horizon by going beyond their barrier of what they don't initially like of feel uncomfortable. Often friendly interaction between people will not come naturally but will be motivated by certain needs (approval, security, favours) or fears (aggression, anger, expectations of others) that people have. Therefore, this job wouldn't be much of a stretch as long as its under your control. On the other hand, you might have a negative example where the women don't have any initiative at all, and are forced be the company to follow various strict guide-lines to interact. They feel that the have to suppres themselves to fit into the role, cross very intimate boundaries and be very dishonest. The conditions at their workplace might cause them to be forced into a very submissive behaviour, enacting a very demeaning role, not to lose the job. Definitely like the idea better than stripping. But it could be much worse than stripping ever is, depending on how it's carried out. | ||
|
aidnai
United States1159 Posts
On December 15 2010 05:30 ProtossGirl wrote: I like to see boobs.. It's only on forums like this with so much self righteousness from it's posters could something so normal (boobs = cool) be taken as "disgust" I have no problems like this, and even if it had been a party for both genders i don't think it would have been a problem.. Boobs are nice, even I like to look at them. For those who think it may be "demeaning" flip it around in your head, I bet you'd feel quite the powerful man/stud if people were willing to give you large sums of money to take your pants off. It is demeaning. I'll help you out with flipping it around in your head. You live in a society where women are the traditional head of the household. They put food on the table, pay the bills, and have the most important jobs in science, government, and industry. As a man, you are not valued based on your contributions to these fields, even if you have a career in one of them. You are judged mostly based upon your appearance. Magazines at the cash register have 'shops of all the hottest men wearing next to nothing. You can easily notice that women, regardless of the context (work/leisure) are more interested in talking to and being around more attractive men. Most men are looking for love and intimacy as an important part of their sex life. They want to have sex, but with someone they feel safe with, someone they feel loved by, someone they respect. Generally, this more true the older the man gets. Most men as they start to get into their 30s tend to want a family as well. Unfortunately, it is all too common that as they lose their attractiveness, their wife will leave them for someone younger. Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects. I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet? My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours. | ||
|
Rushme
Canada10 Posts
| ||
|
Avila
Canada39 Posts
| ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
To end the letter with cheers... was he trying to make him angry? It definetly doesn't lighten the tone of the harsh and formal attack. Really, to tell him that the strippers were innapropriate, it should be done in a more casual way and atleast not through writing that promotes the sender as a mythic creature of justice. He may atleast come to agree, gracefuly with the writer this way rather than instead find himself becoming the angry reciever of some anonymous individuals declaration of wrong-doing. I mean what if instead we critisized the letter in a likewise manner? How obnoxious would it sound? Dear Friend I am astonsihed at your inabillity to appropriatly relate to your former accociates. I am under the impression that a past notice of your's embarresed himself by commiting to an unfavorable joke at a friendly reunion that he commisioned. Your fulsome behavior was so unquestionably unjust, that I feel it is neccecary to make clear the atrociousness of you action. In the future may this never again be an issue. Cheers, | ||
|
Scoop
Finland482 Posts
Isn't the point of a reunion to have fun together or something? Never been to one but I'd imagine the idea is to get together, have some drinks, smoke some pot or whatever and chill with your friends you haven't seen in a looooong time. Not sit in the living room talking about mathematics and have a tea ceremony. | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On December 15 2010 06:06 aidnai wrote: Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects. I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet? My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours. ...I can't tell if you're trolling, but you do realize that male strippers already exist, right? That males are glamorized, "exploited", and voluntarily shown off as sex models? You're flipping absolutely nothing on its head. Except for, perhaps, your own strawman. | ||
|
aidnai
United States1159 Posts
On December 15 2010 06:10 acker wrote: ...I can't tell if you're trolling, but you do realize that male strippers already exist, right? You're flipping absolutely nothing on its head. Male strippers are the butt of a bad joke. Do you know any? do you take them seriously? are they valuable to society? Compare the role of female strippers in our society to the role of male strippers. The inequality I'm talking about is still apparent. Women strippers are viewed differently because they are "supposed" to be sex objects, whereas male strippers are a joke because they are "supposed" to have real jobs. Also, the relative numbers of male/female strippers and strip clubs further proves the points I made above about gender roles and expectations. | ||
|
cronican
Canada424 Posts
| ||
|
ProtossGirl
England123 Posts
On December 15 2010 06:16 aidnai wrote: Male strippers are the butt of a bad joke. Do you know any? do you take them seriously? are they valuable to society? Compare the role of female strippers in our society to the role of male strippers. The inequality I'm talking about is still apparent. Women strippers are viewed differently because they are "supposed" to be sex objects, whereas male strippers are a joke because they are "supposed" to have real jobs. Also, the relative numbers of male/female strippers and strip clubs further proves the points I made above about gender roles and expectations. Supply and demand man. why do you think i have a shitty attitude? Why be a ball aching prick about it? (shit i dont have balls but you make me ache anyway) If you really think the feminists of today are doing a good job, with high value to society, think again. P.S in almost every women's magazine there are picutres of men in tight little pants showing their manly bulge, photoshopped physiques and sunlit packages.. and you know what? Its Great. Just like women, men can be appreciated for their bodies as well as their other attributes. I'm sure many men may see me as a sexual object, and thats fine, because i look back into their eyes and i see sex too. Many other men see me for my personality too, and that's also great i have talents and abilities, and i recognise those of the men i find sexually attractive. You are acting just like the guy who says "im not racist, i have a black friend" Theres a large difference between the poverty ending empowerment of women, and the narrow minded views of todays feminists moaning that people find them attractive and are happy to pay to see them naked. If I was lonely and wanted to see some male flesh, and couldnt find anyone willing in a bar, Maybe i'd pay a stripper? maybe a lot of people would. If both parties are willing, whats the problem? | ||
|
Pithore
Canada19 Posts
On December 14 2010 20:01 Cyber_Cheese wrote: if it was guys only it makes more sense, but some people might be married etc so its not appropriate Wait...married guys aren't allowed to see strippers? Hookers I'd agree, but strippers? Do married guys have to close their eyes if they flash some boobs during a movie too? I joke. But if it was an all guys school, it's meant to be a fun time and I don't see the problem with it. It'd be like the ultimate boys night out with 75 friends you probably haven't seen for awhile. And at least 50% of boys nights out should include strippers. edit: /clap protossgirl I was going to make a number of the comments you did, but coming from you I think it's even better. I also love how the pro-feminist's flip on a "male dominated" society makes him come off as sexist, or maybe that was just my take. | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On December 15 2010 06:16 aidnai wrote: Male strippers are the butt of a bad joke. Do you know any? do you take them seriously? are they valuable to society? Compare the role of female strippers in our society to the role of male strippers. The inequality I'm talking about is still apparent. Women strippers are viewed differently because they are "supposed" to be sex objects, whereas male strippers are a joke because they are "supposed" to have real jobs. Also, the relative numbers of male/female strippers and strip clubs further proves the points I made above about gender roles and expectations. Err...no, you view female strippers differently because YOU think they are considered sex objects. YOU think male strippers are "supposed to have "real" jobs. Your inability to separate YOUR viewpoint from "society's" viewpoint, whatever the hell that means, is astonishing. By unambiguously stereotyping "strippers" and "society", you, in effect, reveal your own bias and insecurities. Not that of "society". I can't believe that you'd even ask those rhetorical questions in a serious manner. I'd argue that the value of a human being is completely separate from his or her job and, instead, depends on character, on an individual basis. But hey, what do I know about stereotyping? | ||
|
ProtossGirl
England123 Posts
On December 15 2010 06:36 acker wrote: Err...no, you view female strippers differently because YOU think they are considered sex objects. YOU think male strippers are "supposed to have "real" jobs. Your inability to separate YOUR viewpoint from "society's" viewpoint, whatever the hell that means, is astonishing. By unambiguously stereotyping "strippers" and "society", you, in effect, reveal your own bias and insecurities. Not that of "society". I can't believe that you'd even ask those rhetorical questions in a serious manner. I'd argue that the value of a human being is completely separate from his or her job and, instead, depends on character, on an individual basis. But hey, what do I know about stereotyping? Agree with this. ___________________ I think that asspained guy is trolling or was brought up by one of those extremely tight laced 80 year old women, with 1900's views of morality.. and unfortunately.. she made him do things..  It's the only way he inane rant makes sense. He's stereotyping so much its embarrassing, and painting his views onto the views of the masses. That's pretty wrong in the head. Why are male strippers a joke? Because he thinks they are? Don't be so self serving man. If a man with a well developed body sees opportunity to make a lot of money doing something as easy as taking his clothes off.. then good for him. | ||
|
PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
its an after party its basically not related to a reunion anyways so sum1 is just being a whiney baby | ||
|
TheGreatWhiteHope_
United States335 Posts
Edit: By the way the guy who sent the letter is a bitch. | ||
|
aidnai
United States1159 Posts
On December 15 2010 06:33 ProtossGirl wrote: Supply and demand man. why do you think i have a shitty attitude? Why be a ball aching prick about it? (shit i dont have balls but you make me ache anyway) If you really think the feminists of today are doing a good job, with high value to society, think again. P.S in almost every women's magazine there are picutres of men in tight little pants showing their manly bulge, photoshopped physiques and sunlit packages.. and you know what? Its Great. Just like women, men can be appreciated for their bodies as well as their other attributes. I'm sure many men may see me as a sexual object, and thats fine, because i look back into their eyes and i see sex too. Many other men see me for my personality too, and that's also great i have talents and abilities, and i recognise those of the men i find sexually attractive. You are acting just like the guy who says "im not racist, i have a black friend" Theres a large difference between the poverty ending empowerment of women, and the narrow minded views of todays feminists moaning that people find them attractive and are happy to pay to see them naked. If I was lonely and wanted to see some male flesh, and couldnt find anyone willing in a bar, Maybe i'd pay a stripper? maybe a lot of people would. If both parties are willing, whats the problem? TBH, I regret the 'shitty attitude' comment. Sorry for being a prick. But to answer your points: It's likely that England/Europe are ahead of the US in terms of gender equality. That might be part of why we're not seeing eye-to-eye. However, I'm having a hard time imagining a 5-year reunion for a all female school where it would be acceptable to have a male stripper. When I think of females stripping, I think of the girls on 4chan that want to be accepted according to societal standards so badly that when the options are TITS OR GTFO, they choose to expose themselves. That is demeaning. When a man refers to a woman as a cumdumpster (common on shock-jock radio shows and 4chan), he means the woman is a toilet for his 'other' body fluids. That is demeaning. If you actually are a female, then it's possible you don't understand how base, how crass, how un-evolved males can be and often are in this regard. If you want to find out, listen to Tom Leykis or spend an hour on 4chan. Porn, strip shows, prostitution all reinforce this conception that females are here to serve the needs of males, specifically the sexual needs. That is why I have a problem with those things. Incidentally, I also have a problem with 'equality' based on men being equally objectified as women. However, in my experience, I perceive little danger of that. | ||
|
aidnai
United States1159 Posts
On December 15 2010 06:36 acker wrote: Err...no, you view female strippers differently because YOU think they are considered sex objects. YOU think male strippers are "supposed to have "real" jobs. Your inability to separate YOUR viewpoint from "society's" viewpoint, whatever the hell that means, is astonishing. By unambiguously stereotyping "strippers" and "society", you, in effect, reveal your own bias and insecurities. Not that of "society". I can't believe that you'd even ask those rhetorical questions in a serious manner. I'd argue that the value of a human being is completely separate from his or her job and, instead, depends on character, on an individual basis. But hey, what do I know about stereotyping? If you were more correct than me about 'society', why have we not had a female president yet? why is there still to this day a 'glass ceiling' for high-power/exec type jobs? Why is 99% of the porn industry targeted at men, not 50%? Hell, why did we elect Bush twice? Do you think that the majority of the US is like-minded to you? To get back to the original point: I have a problem with strippers because it reinforces negative attitudes towards women which I observe to be prevalent in our society. There are logically four parts here, you tell me which one you have a problem with. 1) Women stripping encourages men to view them as sex objects 2) Women being viewed purely as sex objects is demeaning 3) I observe that women are in fact commonly regarded purely as sex objects. (examples i gave: Tom Leykis, 4chan) 4) Stripping therefore is contributing negatively. | ||
| ||
