So last weekend we had a 5 year reunion from school. About half way through it became apparent that the guy who who organized the event, also organized two strippers to come at the after party. Payment was optional, viewing was optional (obviously).
The next day I find this posted in my facebook inbox.
Hi all,
I'd like to express my feeling that the entertainment at the end of Saturday night was inappropriate to the event.
I say inappropriate because I think it undermined the purpose of our getting together - that being to catch up after five years. ... It should have been obvious that such an extreme show would offend or alienate some in our cohort, excluding them from the opportunity of enjoying the last stage of the night, thus making the reunion open to only part of our grade.
I claim no purity in this - although on reflection the night's end has left a sour taste, I was wink-wink-nudge-nudged into complicity before the show, and I went, and I clapped.
But my purpose is not to comment on the morality of what we did.
It was in very bad taste to organise, in conjunction with the official event, something that would so foreseeably offend, alienate and at the very least distract.
I wish you the best for the next five years. But when that time comes, let's just meet up for drinks and a chat.
Cheers,
(name omitted)
I am interested to see what TL thinks: is it ok to organise such an event for a 5 year reunion?
id like to add that this guy sat through the whole thing anyway, and that this was not the end of the night by any means as it occurred around 11pm and we were out till about 5am.
edit - all male school, 2 female strippers. fairly hardcore show that lasted around 20 mins. edit 2 - around 75 guys, most who know each other very well, no one yet married. edit 3 - the strippers were super hot. they were also the same age as us and seem to know things about the relationship of our school to others, thus making me think the came from some reasonable background as we went to a private school in a fairly well to do part of sydney. edit 4 - the naked guy is known to pick up more girls than most of us, hes a rowdy electrician, nudity is not uncommon when we go out to parties and stuff, but usually there are many women, so its not as weird, most people were just like lol meh.
On December 15 2010 02:48 JackMcCoy wrote: Getting fully naked and staying that way in the middle of a social gathering is a fun way to spice up those boring holiday parties, but it takes both physical and emotional dexterity to successfully execute. You can't simply tear your clothes off and be done with it. You have to ease your way into it; you have to use a little something called finesse.
Let's be honest: we've all been there, leaning against the bar in some dank dive, 75 of your close friends leering at and skulking around two beaten-up, manky strippers. Candy, the younger of the two, grinds on a bar stool, her vacant expression no alibi for her wandering thoughts. You wonder what shattered dreams or broken childhood she pines for as she begins to perform fellatio on her own fist. The other stripper, whom you've dubbed, "The Skeksis," writhes around on the buffet table before suggesting body shots. You struggle to hold down the beer you've been nursing as they fit two full shots and a mixer into her belly button. Your eyes glaze over and the dark, Fincher-esque bar, looking like a scene from Eyes Wide Shut, fades from focus as you daydream about being somewhere that doesn't make you feel inexplicably greasy.
But all is not lost, friends, for you still have your trump card, your ace-in-the-hole, the one thing that never fails to make a party interesting (at least for you). Getting naked! Getting naked in front of a crowd of people with subtlety and grace is a logistical nightmare, but thankfully there are some guidelines to keep in mind that will help smooth out the process:
Take your clothes off slowly, maintaining eye contact with whomever you were conversing with. Don't wear clothing that is difficult to remove, or expensive to replace should you have to leave it behind in a hurry.
Try not to have a boner when you get naked. Naked + Flaccid = Casual, Non-Threatening. Naked + Erect = Aggressive, Threatening, Might try to mount me. If you know you can't help yourself, you may want to look into some novelty items to disguise or dress-up your penis, like a tiny Santa hat.
Don't fart. Without clothes to act as a buffer, pure fart can prove quite toxic, not to mention the dangers of some fecal matter making a daring escape. Many first-timers get excited during their initial attempt, and bad things can happen when you mix booze, adrenaline and a cavalier fart policy.
Have fun with it! While the rest of your 75 closest friends watch Candy twirl around a support beam and absent-mindedly pick at her scabs, you'll be experiencing a whole new world of freedom. Enjoy that breeze, buddy. You've earned it.
im guessin he was the class clown back in the day but yeah i can see how it would offend some people id just laugh and if drunk enough go get a lapdance with em infront of everyone
Each to there own... I think that it depends i guess on the friends, theres nothing like having a good crack on with your mates this sounds like it was a fucking roar and i would have loved to it, not becuase i like strippers or this or that, just seems like a very fun way for the lads to gather and those who take the moral highground can just not participate.. but i get the feeling mabye the guy who arranged the strippers actually didn't think anyone would mind and that it was a great idea.. and i agree!
edit : So was it like a women/man reuinion and the guy orderd 2 female strippers? or 1 of each ..? sorry i guess i would have a obligation if it was a true school reunion with both males and females.. then only female strippers were orderd!
On December 14 2010 19:30 arterian wrote: was it guys only?
yes guys only, about 75 which was about half our year, it was about halfway through the after party which was essentially just guys drinking cases in a function room. I think about 3 left, and the rest form an intimidating semi circle. one guy was naked the entire time (pre and post strippers) for no reason at all...
and to those wondering what type of guy he was: vice school captain, prefect, nice guy, did well at school, but bit of a clown yes.
Strange decission (but less so because it was a male only school) especially if you are going to pubs/nightclubs afterwards anyway. If you do that you can just as easy go to a stripclub at that time.
If they were there I would also go watch and most likely enjoy it, but at the same time it would feel really weird and not comfortable to have strippers on the reunion. For the people who only came for the reunion itself and not went to the pubs/nightclubs afterwards it might have been a downer on the evening as there was less chance for them to really catch up with everybody because while the strippers were performing not much intelligent talking was going on presumably.
His arguments are completely logical and right in the premises he's given.
But when you say that it only lasted for 20 minutes it could change the situation. In that case it should only stay on the schedule after discussions in the group to see if the wishes are weighing over at any side enough to split up the group or not.
It's not as bad as when some of the group leave to get high, return in their own world, stay there for the rest of the night. Since here, they actually all return to the same world for the rest of the night, if it raises the quality of the night for enough people then it's okay.
Just communicate it before, let the other guys know that it's not the ending climax of the night but a 20 minute part of it.
On December 14 2010 19:49 ktp wrote: Definitely not appropriate for a class reunion but this guy sat through it and then complained about it so we can assume that he has no integrity.
Also I find it homo erotic that anyone would organize strippers for mates that they haven't seen in 5 years.
I also thought it was a little strange that he would sit through and then complain, i assumed if anyone didnt wanna watch they would just go have a smoke or hang at the bar or outside.
We all still see each other all the time, id say about 70% of the guys ive seen within the last month, and some most weekends.
I personally have a gf, so watching was a little awkward, but i knew she wouldnt mind as long as i wasn't personally involved and i just kinda hung on the fringes. I think if i was single i wouldnt have thought twice about it. It was more a big joke than anything particularly meant to be erotic, although it was fairly full on.
Unlike drinking, talking, and catching up, having strippers would no longer appeal to grown men in different stages of their lives. To single or dating graduate students, a night with strippers would just be a quirky story, but if you're a married man leading a career, it'd just be an uncomfortable situation to sit through. I understand hosting events can be challenging, but I don't think inviting strippers is in everyone's best interest.
how many people were at the reunion? if its a small group of close friends, then it MIGHT be okay if the organizer asked first. otherwise, it's no good. some people might be married and that could hurt the marriage.
explanation: unless ALL of you were pretty damn close friends which is extremely unlikely, coz there were probly like 15 guys in the class, you just don't do stuff like this, at least not as an officiall followup.
There's time and place for strippers and I doubt reunions are high on the rankings..
Definitely odd... Less so given that this is an all boys school reunion... but something is NQR about organising strippers as an official 'activity' for a school reunion.
It's like saying lets watch the football game after the reunion. Guys like tits. I wouldn't mind sharing a beer with guys i never even talked to in high school in front of a nice set of boobs.
On December 14 2010 20:18 decafchicken wrote: Can he organize my 5 year reunion as well?
It's like saying lets watch the football game after the reunion. Guys like tits. I wouldn't mind sharing a beer with guys i never even talked to in high school in front of a nice set of boobs.
there is some truth to this, maybe im just socially retarded, but personally i barely talked to anyone at the reunion that i didnt talk to in highschool anyway.
i do feel like it could have been advertised a little more prematurely, but at the same time, you dont want people to be talking about it at the main reunion, where many teachers and parents where present.
Out of the ordinary sure. Inappropriate ? no, it was an all boys school and he even said none were married yet. I fail to see how any dude can find it inappropriate tbh, unless he don' like girls that is.
Weird. If the guy who organized this wanted to go see strippers with some of the other guys, why not just ask, and take off for a bit from the reunion? To actually bring 2 strippers to the reunion was quite tasteless and, someone else should probably organize the reunion next time.
On December 14 2010 20:43 lowercase wrote: It's sort of weird, but I also think writing an angry letter about it was a dickish move.
I disagree with the recent posts. The letter was absolutely appropriate. Strippers at an official function is not appropriate. At a party, amongst friends (don't even think that 75 classmates can all be friends) is inappropriate. It's that simple to me.
I thought it was distasteful, then I thought it was funny, then I saw this:
On December 14 2010 19:35 Jayzo wrote: one guy was naked the entire time (pre and post strippers) for no reason at all...
Granted that I have never been to a reunion before, but I think that this is a far more serious problem than the strippers. You said that you knew each other "very well," maybe that meant something different than I first assumed...
I have a feeling the guy who set this up is the kind of guy who uses any excuse to get strippers. Baby showers, office parties, birthdays, reunions, house warming gift, etc... Might be a useful friend to have up until your next funeral.
ew i definitely don't want to see strippers ever, much less at a school reunion. of course i will never be going to a school reunion either since i never met people at school.
On December 14 2010 19:30 arterian wrote: was it guys only?
yes guys only, about 75 which was about half our year, it was about halfway through the after party which was essentially just guys drinking cases in a function room. I think about 3 left, and the rest form an intimidating semi circle. one guy was naked the entire time (pre and post strippers) for no reason at all...
and to those wondering what type of guy he was: vice school captain, prefect, nice guy, did well at school, but bit of a clown yes.
soooo this thing went on for like 6 more hours and you had to leave at 11pm if you didn't feel comfortable with strippers? pretty lame. I would find it inappropriate and definitely feel sick and have to leave but I am the type to be too afraid to go to any sort of reunion thing in the first place.
On December 14 2010 19:30 arterian wrote: was it guys only?
yes guys only, about 75 which was about half our year, it was about halfway through the after party which was essentially just guys drinking cases in a function room. I think about 3 left, and the rest form an intimidating semi circle. one guy was naked the entire time (pre and post strippers) for no reason at all...
and to those wondering what type of guy he was: vice school captain, prefect, nice guy, did well at school, but bit of a clown yes.
Afterward we went to a close by pub/nightclub.
wut
lol and a dude was naked the entire time too? maybe this is an Australian thing.
maybe its just where I live but people have 5 year reunions? That doesnt seem long enough :/ Atleast now with things like facebook that makes it easier to stay in contact.
But anyways, no its not, thats just weird.... Its like bringing a cake to a funeral. It was that he brought strippers its just it doesnt fit lol
75 guys in a room. Nobody married- All boys school? I could see why the logical conclusion was to invite some dancers... Don't catch the gay, bro. (I mean this in the most sarcastic way possible)
Seeing as it was all lads though and there wasn't huge peer pressure to join in then I dont see the big deal. Although when I went to college (from UK so we were 16-18) our student union arranged several trips to Amsterdam where we got stoned and went to sex shows for 4 days so perhaps my opinion isn't the most balanced?
Guy probably told his gf and was forced to apologise!
On December 14 2010 20:39 d_so wrote: the fuck? any guy who uses the word "inappropriate" amongst friends is a tool in my book, and why the hell would anyone hate strippers
It sounds like the dude who wrote the letter is trying to turn what should be a casual get together into some public event with issues and shit.
Its a casual gathering of dudes, with no pressure. As what other people said i';d be more concerned about the naked guy.,
In fact, any gathering where its cool for someone to be naked the whole time, its fine for pretty much anything, strippers included. Its kinda lucky they came. imagine if your reunion was 75 dudes in a rooom and one was naked. i'd write a fucking letter about that
On December 14 2010 20:46 Piste wrote: someone likes to drink, another likes to see some girls. What's the problem? everyone can decide wether to view or not.
it's ok.
The guy in the letter is worried about it alienating certain people, which it certainly does. If I don't drink and you do, then you drink, I don't, and we can still hang out. If one guy doesn't like to see girls and another does, it makes it kind of difficult for both of them to simultaneously get their wishes.
On December 14 2010 21:37 Kiante wrote: It sounds like the dude who wrote the letter is trying to turn what should be a casual get together into some public event with issues and shit.
Its a casual gathering of dudes, with no pressure. As what other people said i';d be more concerned about the naked guy.,
In fact, any gathering where its cool for someone to be naked the whole time, its fine for pretty much anything, strippers included. Its kinda lucky they came. imagine if your reunion was 75 dudes in a rooom and one was naked. i'd write a fucking letter about that
well said i totally agree haha. Someone would def be sending out the letter about the naked dude if strippers hadnt saved the night thats for sure.
I agree with what everyone else said. No one was married and its a 5 year get together of some mates and so this seems fine. Everyone knows you can just step out to the bar or outside for a bit if you dont wanna watch the show and just continue the shinnanigans after the strippers are down.
Either way this sounds pretty awesome and i hope you enjoyed the get together
Seriously, I don't think they were that inappropriate, but I could understand someone getting uncomfortable. But the real issue is, if you know these guys for so long, why not just say it instead of sending an email?
On December 14 2010 21:41 Brutus wrote: Seriously, I don't think they were that inappropriate, but I could understand someone getting uncomfortable. But the real issue is, if you know these guys for so long, why not just say it instead of sending an email?
It's a highschool reunion, most likely most people barely know each other by now. Many people are uncomfortable with strippers, just like, say, if you were to hand out drugs, or play loud black metal music, people have different tastes and attitudes towards these things. So when organizing such events, it's not smart to pick one of those things with a high risk of annoying people. I definitely wouldn't want to go to a reunion with strippers, since it would feel awkward when among various people I knew somewhat when I was 16. -- and besides, it's distracting from the very point of a reunion.
This could be seen as inappropriate, and I would definitely feel alienated, but only if I as a homosexual in attendance. Out of 75 men, it is likely that there were some homosexual men (possibly the 3 that left) and this person who felt alienated could have been one of them. If you were gay, and you were at a reunion and female strippers were there, wouldn't you feel alienated?
I can't really think of any other reason for a man to feel alienated at a stripper party, especially if none of you were married. I would say those people had the option to leave, so they should have, and if they were made to feel uncomfortable they brought that upon themselves by staying. No reason to ruin the fun for all the other guys just cause a few dudes want male strippers instead.
dude that is definitely not acceptable to have strippers at a class reuinion.. I bet that was awkward as shit.. though I feel like he should of emailed the guy instead of putting this up on facebook.
On December 14 2010 22:01 Rage178 wrote: This could be seen as inappropriate, and I would definitely feel alienated, but only if I as a homosexual in attendance. Out of 75 men, it is likely that there were some homosexual men (possibly the 3 that left) and this person who felt alienated could have been one of them. If you were gay, and you were at a reunion and female strippers were there, wouldn't you feel alienated?
I can't really think of any other reason for a man to feel alienated at a stripper party, especially if none of you were married. I would say those people had the option to leave, so they should have, and if they were made to feel uncomfortable they brought that upon themselves by staying. No reason to ruin the fun for all the other guys just cause a few dudes want male strippers instead.
Inviting strippers changes the tone of the party. A lot of people would probably go just to catch up and suddenly had to witness a sex show, it's very much in bad taste.
On December 14 2010 19:30 arterian wrote: was it guys only?
yes guys only, about 75 which was about half our year, it was about halfway through the after party which was essentially just guys drinking cases in a function room. I think about 3 left, and the rest form an intimidating semi circle. one guy was naked the entire time (pre and post strippers) for no reason at all...
and to those wondering what type of guy he was: vice school captain, prefect, nice guy, did well at school, but bit of a clown yes.
Afterward we went to a close by pub/nightclub.
wut
lol and a dude was naked the entire time too? maybe this is an Australian thing.
A reunion of close friends who expect something like this to happen, not inappropriate.
A reunion of classmates who weren't that close of friends, not expecting it to happen, inappropriate.
I'd have to go with not inappropriate by what you explained at the end. Also you said this happened at 11pm at the after party. I'm assuming that the actual reunion started a lot earlier? So people got time to catch up if they wanted to, than had some fun afterward if they wanted to.
On December 14 2010 22:23 keeblur wrote: A reunion of close friends who expect something like this to happen, not inappropriate.
A reunion of classmates who weren't that close of friends, not expecting it to happen, inappropriate.
I'd have to go with not inappropriate by what you explained at the end. Also you said this happened at 11pm at the after party. I'm assuming that the actual reunion started a lot earlier? So people got time to catch up if they wanted to, than had some fun afterward if they wanted to.
this is true, it started around 5, decent enough time for banter.
the naked guy is one of my good mates, he's in no way gay, but it confused most of us. i personally think it may have been a "hey im a fun guy, pick me to do lapdances on" kind of ploy, or maybe he was just drunk, not sure. adding that may have derailed this a little, but i think it was funny anyway =)
Given that it was an all male class, and the class size was small I see no problem with it.
Working in Corporate America I've seen CEOs hold board meetings at strip clubs. Enjoy the show, or leave.
The only thing I would suggest it to have some other activity going on at the same time so the people that don't want to see the strippers have some other activity they can do during the show.
So I was at this event (Jayzo is a mate of mine) and I feel I should clarify a few things.
Firstly, the official event, where parents and faculty were present, was early in the night - between 6 and 10. The afterparty, which was not a school function and was at a completely different location, went late into the night - people who had no intention of getting ratshit drunk and parting hard had already left by then.
Second, it seems there is a significant cultural difference between Australia and USA (where I imagine most posters come from). Australia, having a much smaller population than America, doesn't see as much interstate college transfer following high school - most people just go to the college thats closest to them. This means that most of the guys went to one of a handful of Universities that are all close to each other after school finished. So following high school, we all stayed close friends. In fact, we thought it was fairly ironic that we were even having a 5 year high school reunion in the first place, because (with few exceptions), these are all the guys that we hang out with, go to the beach with, go drinking with, etc on a weekly basis. We are all a tight group of mates.
I guess the point that I'm trying to communicate is that it was all a bunch of mates who are all regular drinking buddies were just having a good night. This added to the festivities rather than detracting from them. The guy who posted on facebook is being a massive pussy.
On December 14 2010 22:44 Red Dust wrote: I guess the point that I'm trying to communicate is that it was all a bunch of mates who are all regular drinking buddies were just having a good night. This added to the festivities rather than detracting from them. The guy who posted on facebook is being a massive pussy.
My $0.02
Even if I was with my regular drinking buddies having a good night I would not be comfortable at all with strippers unexpectedly showing up, especially if one of my friends decided to get naked too. It seems unfair for you to call this guy a "massive pussy" for that.
Unless I'm missing something? Do you always have strippers come when you hang out with your friends? Did everyone at the party know the strippers were coming? (This would at least give them a chance to leave, but they might still feel—rightfully—put off.)
The reason I think this was inappropriate is that it sounds like not everyone at the event "signed up" to go watch strippers or your naked friend. If everyone had agreed or knew that's what the night would be like, then there would be no basis to object. But as the story sounds right now, it could be that you (Red Dust) and your closer friends decided to hijack a larger party for your unique satisfaction, and that left people who weren't into strippers or not extremely tight with you feeling alienated.
Maybe he is an homosexual and is mad because you guys didn't even consider he wouldn't apreciate female strippers? That's the only reasonable explanation I can find lulz
On December 14 2010 22:44 Red Dust wrote: I guess the point that I'm trying to communicate is that it was all a bunch of mates who are all regular drinking buddies were just having a good night. This added to the festivities rather than detracting from them. The guy who posted on facebook is being a massive pussy.
My $0.02
Even if I was with my regular drinking buddies having a good night I would not be comfortable at all with strippers unexpectedly showing up, especially if one of my friends decided to get naked too.
Do you always have strippers come when you hang out with your friends?
What if he does? What if 99% of the people there (excluding this guy) were not offended by the stripper, would it be reasonable to consider it inappropriate because one person was supposedly offended (yet still took part)?
This is kind of a pointless discussion to have really, there can be no consensus when not everyone is comfortable with things like this.. You can only decide what would be appropriate for a specific group of people (that you are familiar with) at a specific event..
On December 14 2010 22:44 Red Dust wrote: I guess the point that I'm trying to communicate is that it was all a bunch of mates who are all regular drinking buddies were just having a good night. This added to the festivities rather than detracting from them. The guy who posted on facebook is being a massive pussy.
My $0.02
Even if I was with my regular drinking buddies having a good night I would not be comfortable at all with strippers unexpectedly showing up, especially if one of my friends decided to get naked too.
Do you always have strippers come when you hang out with your friends?
What if he does? What if 99% of the people there (excluding this guy) were not offended by the stripper, would it be reasonable to consider it inappropriate because one person was supposedly offended (yet still took part)?
First off: swag to the maximum.
Well, I'd guess that the guy who sent that message didn't really "take part" in the strippers' show. And yeah, I do think that even if everyone else at this event was into strippers coming, it would be rude to invite them if that would force this one guy to either leave or feel uncomfortable. Having the strippers was not fair to this guy, who came to the event expecting just to have some regular drunk fun with old high school friends.
Edit: all the posts about how this guy must be gay are hilarious. For my sanity I'm just going to assume that everyone posting that is under 12 years old.
Strippers definitely not inappropriate unless the reunion was officially sanctioned by the school. Otherwise I do not see anything wrong with it, considering you are all men presumably in your 20's, early 30's.
On December 14 2010 20:39 d_so wrote: the fuck? any guy who uses the word "inappropriate" amongst friends is a tool in my book, and why the hell would anyone hate strippers
Yeah, how in the hell is this a problem at an all guy school?????
Have you people never watched The Sopranos??? Strip Clubs are a natural place to do business, relax, drink... your class pres was so concerned with you guys having fun that he brought the titty bar TO YOU. YOU FUCKING INGRATES.
Jesus christ TL. This thread disappoints me so.
John Wayne said to never trust a man who doesn't drink. This also goes for men who don't enjoy strippers.
On December 14 2010 22:44 Red Dust wrote: I guess the point that I'm trying to communicate is that it was all a bunch of mates who are all regular drinking buddies were just having a good night. This added to the festivities rather than detracting from them. The guy who posted on facebook is being a massive pussy.
My $0.02
Even if I was with my regular drinking buddies having a good night I would not be comfortable at all with strippers unexpectedly showing up, especially if one of my friends decided to get naked too.
Do you always have strippers come when you hang out with your friends?
What if he does? What if 99% of the people there (excluding this guy) were not offended by the stripper, would it be reasonable to consider it inappropriate because one person was supposedly offended (yet still took part)?
First off: swag to the maximum.
Well, I'd guess that the guy who sent that message didn't really "take part" in the strippers' show. And yeah, I do think that even if everyone else at this event was into strippers coming, it would be rude to invite them if that would force this one guy to either leave or feel uncomfortable. Having the strippers was not fair to this guy, who came to the event expecting just to have some regular drunk fun with old high school friends.
Edit: all the posts about how this guy must be gay are hilarious. For my sanity I'm just going to assume that everyone posting that is under 12 years old.
I'd like to support JWD on the matter. And yeah, I believe it's safe to assume that the majority of TL population right now consists of people still in their teens for whom strippers still sound as something awesome (I think that any form of titty flashing was awesome at that age, but it's hard to remember).
On December 14 2010 22:44 Red Dust wrote: I guess the point that I'm trying to communicate is that it was all a bunch of mates who are all regular drinking buddies were just having a good night. This added to the festivities rather than detracting from them. The guy who posted on facebook is being a massive pussy.
My $0.02
The reason I think this was inappropriate is that it sounds like not everyone at the event "signed up" to go watch strippers or your naked friend. If everyone had agreed or knew that's what the night would be like, then there would be no basis to object. But as the story sounds right now, it could be that you (Red Dust) and your closer friends decided to hijack a larger party for your unique satisfaction, and that left people who weren't into strippers or not extremely tight with you feeling alienated.
I suppose the point I was trying to emphasise is that this was so deep in the night (~1130pm, where the official function at the school itself ended hours earlier) that it was no longer a reunion in the normal sense - it was a bunch of mates who were off chops and rowdy (thus the naked dude - he was just partying harder than most ). There had already been opportunities to catch up and chit chat for hours, and the after-party itself was coming to an end. Immediately following the strip show everybody left and went out clubbing. It's not like the strip show was sprung on a sober audience at 8pm, it was at the very end of the reunion. Those who decided to leave only missed the strip show and then everybody leaving.
lol at some of the people equating strippers with drug dealing and such... it's a bunch of 22 year old mates getting together followed by a lapdance or two.
On December 14 2010 22:44 Red Dust wrote: the guy who posted on facebook is being a massive pussy.
I'd say if it's only guys I'd see how it could be sort of in a weird way an appropriate thing to do but if there are women there I'd definitely say no that it's inappropriate.
On December 14 2010 19:30 arterian wrote: was it guys only?
yes guys only, about 75 which was about half our year, it was about halfway through the after party which was essentially just guys drinking cases in a function room. I think about 3 left, and the rest form an intimidating semi circle. one guy was naked the entire time (pre and post strippers) for no reason at all...
and to those wondering what type of guy he was: vice school captain, prefect, nice guy, did well at school, but bit of a clown yes.
Afterward we went to a close by pub/nightclub.
Not as big of a deal then
infact, I give it my seal of approval
Stippers are only fun with alcohol involved. Youd be surprised how many guys are afraid of them though.
Yeah, that's wildly inappropriate. I get that it was at the very end of the night, long after the "official" reunion was over. Good. But still, it's one thing to say to a bunch of close friends "hey, I feel like some strippers, anyone else down?" and then leaving with whoever says yes, and quite another to just bring on the strippers with a sizable group of people...
If this was at 11pm, how long had the party lasted before that?
I mean, if I was chatting since like 5pm with the same 74 males over and over, I'd welcome some female presence... Even more so if alcohol was involved.
On December 14 2010 22:44 Red Dust wrote: I guess the point that I'm trying to communicate is that it was all a bunch of mates who are all regular drinking buddies were just having a good night. This added to the festivities rather than detracting from them. The guy who posted on facebook is being a massive pussy.
My $0.02
The reason I think this was inappropriate is that it sounds like not everyone at the event "signed up" to go watch strippers or your naked friend. If everyone had agreed or knew that's what the night would be like, then there would be no basis to object. But as the story sounds right now, it could be that you (Red Dust) and your closer friends decided to hijack a larger party for your unique satisfaction, and that left people who weren't into strippers or not extremely tight with you feeling alienated.
I suppose the point I was trying to emphasise is that this was so deep in the night (~1130pm, where the official function at the school itself ended hours earlier) that it was no longer a reunion in the normal sense - it was a bunch of mates who were off chops and rowdy (thus the naked dude - he was just partying harder than most ). There had already been opportunities to catch up and chit chat for hours, and the after-party itself was coming to an end. Immediately following the strip show everybody left and went out clubbing. It's not like the strip show was sprung on a sober audience at 8pm, it was at the very end of the reunion. Those who decided to leave only missed the strip show and then everybody leaving.
Yeah, all of those facts definitely make it seem like a not very big deal. If the guy who sent the message could easily have left without feeling like he was missing out on his reunion, then he doesn't have much basis to complain. Maybe what he was trying to get across in his message is just his preference that there not be any strippers at the next reunion
In any event (this wasn't the question posed by the OP but...) he probably should have sent the message just to the guys who invited the strippers, instead of making a public stink.
So I was at this event (Jayzo is a mate of mine) and I feel I should clarify a few things.
Firstly, the official event, where parents and faculty were present, was early in the night - between 6 and 10. The afterparty, which was not a school function and was at a completely different location, went late into the night - people who had no intention of getting ratshit drunk and parting hard had already left by then.
Second, it seems there is a significant cultural difference between Australia and USA (where I imagine most posters come from). Australia, having a much smaller population than America, doesn't see as much interstate college transfer following high school - most people just go to the college thats closest to them. This means that most of the guys went to one of a handful of Universities that are all close to each other after school finished. So following high school, we all stayed close friends. In fact, we thought it was fairly ironic that we were even having a 5 year high school reunion in the first place, because (with few exceptions), these are all the guys that we hang out with, go to the beach with, go drinking with, etc on a weekly basis. We are all a tight group of mates.
I guess the point that I'm trying to communicate is that it was all a bunch of mates who are all regular drinking buddies were just having a good night. This added to the festivities rather than detracting from them. The guy who posted on facebook is being a massive pussy.
On December 14 2010 23:38 Red Dust wrote: I suppose the point I was trying to emphasise is that this was so deep in the night (~1130pm, where the official function at the school itself ended hours earlier) that it was no longer a reunion in the normal sense - it was a bunch of mates who were off chops and rowdy (thus the naked dude - he was just partying harder than most ). There had already been opportunities to catch up and chit chat for hours, and the after-party itself was coming to an end. Immediately following the strip show everybody left and went out clubbing. It's not like the strip show was sprung on a sober audience at 8pm, it was at the very end of the reunion. Those who decided to leave only missed the strip show and then everybody leaving.
If the point you're trying to emphasize is some buddies having a party with strippers that has nothing to do with the reunion
where the official function at the school itself ended hours earlier) that it was no longer a reunion in the normal sense - it was a bunch of mates
then why do you ask the question in the OP about the presence of strippers during a reunion?
People still take part in reunions? I thought facebook would have killed that off by now. Strippers for a school friend get together sure if it was a few of you.. but for the whole year of people? seems a bit odd.
you needed more strippers. Man its an all boys school why the fuck are you saying that it was inappropriate? what the fuck do you think you should be doing? Drinking seeing some tits and then go partying remembering old times. thats about it if anyone has a problem then you are a stuck up whipped, and a wuss. Who wouldn't like to see a good pair of strippers going at it? maybe you had some "guys" that weren't into women then.
edit - all male school, 2 female strippers. fairly hardcore show that lasted around 20 mins. edit 2 - around 75 guys, most who know each other very well, no one yet married.
I didn't see a problem. Sounds like the guy that cried about it wasn't interested in women.
edit - all male school, 2 female strippers. fairly hardcore show that lasted around 20 mins. edit 2 - around 75 guys, most who know each other very well, no one yet married.
I didn't see a problem. Sounds like the guy that cried about it wasn't interested in women.
I really can't believe that so many people think this. So if you're not happy to unexpectedly encounter two strippers at a gathering of 75 of your male friends (some good friends, some not), you must be gay? That's just so stupid
I don't understand some of the posts in this thread :-\. It's as if female nudity were somehow threatening to them. It's girls, probably well-formed ones, that are professionals in sexual entertainment. As a guy, isn't it biologically normal to enjoy seeing that? I don't understand where all this discomfort,etc comes from. It's not like it was a gangbang. It's just some strippers. There's no invasion of privacy or anything there. I can understand if one individual guy gets waylaid by aggressively dancing stripper who leave racing stripes on his face with their asses, but just dancing in a room with a lot of drunk guys? If anyone didn't like it, they could go take a piss and chat with a friend on the phone outside. It's totally not a big deal. And it lasted for 20 minutes only...
edit - all male school, 2 female strippers. fairly hardcore show that lasted around 20 mins. edit 2 - around 75 guys, most who know each other very well, no one yet married.
I didn't see a problem. Sounds like the guy that cried about it wasn't interested in women.
I really can't believe that so many people think this. So if you're not happy to unexpectedly encounter two strippers at a gathering of 75 of your male friends (some good friends, some not), you must be gay? That's just so stupid
I don't really know what to say other than
it's not like anyone is holding you down and forcing to lick some nasty stripper taint. Just don't get a dance???
theres nothing wrong with this... I'd say anyone who disagrees is doomed to a life of boredom and mediocrity. Did anyone else pay for any entertainment to show up? Didn't think so
I never understood the joy of watching naked girls when its only a cheap fake show and there are no possibilities to actually get something tangible *ahem*. Not very inspiring to me.
Somehow I always feel this is for guys with weak egos who try to act "on top of things" regarding their manliness in front of other dudes. The only potential follow-up is in the homo erotic region in these situations.
On December 15 2010 00:34 HeadhunteR wrote: It was inappropriate ...........................
you needed more strippers. Man its an all boys school why the fuck are you saying that it was inappropriate? what the fuck do you think you should be doing? Drinking seeing some tits and then go partying remembering old times. thats about it if anyone has a problem then you are a stuck up whipped, and a wuss. Who wouldn't like to see a good pair of strippers going at it? maybe you had some "guys" that weren't into women then.
I just think it's awkward. I mean watching strippers in general just feels awkward, but watching it with people i hardly know is just wierd. Unless they like all agreed i think it was sort of inapropriate. Obviously i dont know what those people were like it's just a personal preference for me. I feel some sort of creep if i just sit there and watch strippers.
I'd sort of relate it to watching strippers with my family. Horribly awkward. Obviously not as bad, but still a little awkward
On December 15 2010 00:56 krew406 wrote: Theres nothing awkward about watching strippers, how old are you?
Different people find different things offensive/awkward. I bet you think that watching someone have sex right in front of you would be pretty awkward. While that's pretty extreme, some feel the same way about stripping. Has nothing to do with age. Unless of course your grandparents are really into hardcore stripping?
I think it's okay to organize such an even for all-male gathering. At least it's definitely not worth going to Facebook and telling the other guys how SHOCKING it was for you the way you did.
This world is goind straight to rainbow hell. Offensive this, offensive that, offensive everywhere. Why do people get offended so easily?
On December 15 2010 00:56 krew406 wrote: Theres nothing awkward about watching strippers, how old are you?
Different people find different things offensive/awkward. I bet you think that watching someone have sex right in front of you would be pretty awkward. While that's pretty extreme, some feel the same way about stripping. Has nothing to do with age. Unless of course your grandparents are really into hardcore stripping?
True. It's a matter of taste and personal convictions.
Anyway the issue at hand is the guy participated in the event with the strippers. Maybe the influence of alcohol altered the decision making process and now the hangover (guilt) sets in afterwards.
Yea noones causing anyone harm, whoever didnt want to watch couldve left. Im sure a majority of the dudes thought it was appropriate, and living in America, that means this is a OK
On December 15 2010 01:03 Taosu wrote: I think it's okay to organize such an even for all-male gathering. At least it's definitely not worth going to Facebook and telling the other guys how SHOCKING it was for you the way you did.
This world is goind straight to rainbow hell. Offensive this, offensive that, offensive everywhere. Why do people get offended so easily?
The guy said it was "inappropriate" not offensive. It can be offensive to some, but he just sated that he found it inappropriate.
I know that most of you think Strippers = FUN!, but if you're married or in any kind of strong commitment, it's pretty odd. How would you feel if your fiancée would tell you that she's going to meet her high-school friends and you found out she went to a male strip club? And it's less-wrong for women, somewhat, because it's not as common as it is with guys.
And even if your better half would not get mad and offended, I still wouldn't like the idea of a guy waving his junk in my gf's face.
If you don't like the strippers step outside for some fresh air, let them do their business, then head back inside when they are finished. Just don't expect not to be made fun of by your classmates.
On December 15 2010 01:25 krew406 wrote: I agree with zidon, also you should tip them anyways, these girls probably have a hard time putting food on their kids plate
Haha. I think people in this thread especially the guy who messaged you need to lighten up. I would laugh my ass off if strippers came into the room. Sounds like fun times ;D. Ignore the party pooper.
We had a reunion with my old school. The organizer also hired a stripper to do a show for like 30 mins. Everyone was digging it, even the girls. It was only like a half-year reunion, so not really a reunion and everyone still knew each other well. Nonetheless, it was really awesome. If not for watching the girl then just for the laugh of random people getting lapdances.
I blame religion poisoning people's minds. Like honestly who other than the holy Christians can't handle checking out some tits? And the way that letter of complaint was written this guy probably has a major stick right up his ass called Jesus.
I am seriously confused as to HOW naked chicks can be a bad thing. Really all I can think of is if they were ugly.....
Sex is nothing bad at all, It's actually pretty fucking amazing. People that think sex and anything to do with sex (so strippers making some men a little excited) is wrong are just plain lost in reality.
I didn't see a problem. Sounds like the guy that cried about it wasn't interested in women.
Can't speak for all gay men, but out of the ones I know, none have particular problems with seeing naked women. They don't seem to feel as threatened by naked women as straight men who always feel the need to prove to all other men that they're ABSOLUTELY NOT GAY THANK YOU VERY MCUH feel by naked men. Mostly, they're just plain not that interested in looking at women, no more, no less (of course it differs per person, and there are absolutely gay men who feel threatened by and uncomfortable with female strippers, even if I haven't met them - my point is there is likely no strong direct correlation between 'being gay' and 'feeling uncomfortable with female strippers').
I find it quite peculiar that so many people seem to assume that every straight man must enjoy strippers. Just because you and your mates do and/or think it evaluates your manliness doesn't mean everybody has to share your sentiments - some people might feel put off by strippers because of their religion, morals, upbringing, or culture (in a lot of countries, strip clubs are illegal and pretty much taboo) regardless of their sexual orientation.
And for the record, I do enjoy sex shows occasionally - and just as I think there's no shame in doing so I think there's no shame in not enjoying them, either.
On December 15 2010 01:36 N3rV[Green] wrote: I blame religion poisoning people's minds. Like honestly who other than the holy Christians can't handle checking out some tits? And the way that letter of complaint was written this guy probably has a major stick right up his ass called Jesus.
I am seriously confused as to HOW naked chicks can be a bad thing. Really all I can think of is if they were ugly.....
Sex is nothing bad at all, It's actually pretty fucking amazing. People that think sex and anything to do with sex (so strippers making some men a little excited) is wrong are just plain lost in reality.
Really? So you'd be ok with dating a stripper? Or better yet, a prostitute? Because sex is nothing bad at all!
Being that it was an all male school, there shouldn't really be problem with it. However, I can see how someone in a committed relationship would be turned off by the whole thing.
Think of all the fucked up things these guys could've been doing if they were not in some room watching their buddies get lapdances... this is a win for humanity
I can't believe people are actually thinking this is appropriate. Sure it's great to watch strippers on your free time, but this is a school reunion. Most of these people you have not seen for 5 years; not everyone is "best buddies" with each other. How could it not be awkward? School reunions aren't supposed to be about entertainment; they are supposed to be about nostalgia and chatting with old friends. Sure it might be boring, but it's ONE night every five years. You can go to a strip club any other night.
Maybe I'm unable to relate because I didn't attend an all-guys school, but this wouldn't even be up for debate if it was a coed school.
On December 15 2010 01:36 N3rV[Green] wrote: I blame religion poisoning people's minds. Like honestly who other than the holy Christians can't handle checking out some tits? And the way that letter of complaint was written this guy probably has a major stick right up his ass called Jesus.
I am seriously confused as to HOW naked chicks can be a bad thing. Really all I can think of is if they were ugly.....
Sex is nothing bad at all, It's actually pretty fucking amazing. People that think sex and anything to do with sex (so strippers making some men a little excited) is wrong are just plain lost in reality.
Really? So you'd be ok with dating a stripper? Or better yet, a prostitute? Because sex is nothing bad at all!
What? Why would I date a stripper? I mean if she was fucking awesome and the greatest girl I've ever met, and she happened to be a stripper cause she thought whatever about it was cool, then sure I'll date a hot ass chick that other people pay to look at. As for the second option...I would date an ESCORT, but not a WHORE. See the difference? WHORES just throw themselves at any dick at full mast. (which is fine, let them do what they wish). I would honestly rather never have a "girlfriend" so far I haven't had a girlfriend all year, never had more action all year.
I seriously don't understand your logic and thinking sir that quoted me...do you think sex is bad?
Probably inappropriate to just take the initiative to hire strippers, yeah. I could see the guy instead asking people at they end if they want to go to the strip club or something, but I make it an "after-party" kind of thing. To just hire strippers for the actual reunion is a little odd.
I'm pretty perverted, so I'm sure I wouldn't find someone having sex in front of me disturbing. I've probably also been a bit desensitised by watching a lot of porn. However, I do find the idea of stripping revolting and it doesn't turn me off at all. That situation removes many of the aspects that make me adore certain women, and even if the strippers are very beautiful, I doubt I would find it a turn on. I'd be uncomfortable because I would not want to engage in such situation, finding it wrong, while I wouldn't really able to avoid it.
I guess for me, my distaste would be a combination of factors. One is that I hate for women to demean themselves for me - the whole idea behind this concept. Another thing is that I simply dislike for women to be vulgar, appear simple-minded or be demystified in the manner than stripping does. It simply ruins it for me. A part of this is also because of his it distorts the power balance between the sexes (in society as well as in the situation), promoting the idea of female sexuality as a commodity. If some women impulsively stripped because they were just naturally horny and felt like it, it would be an entirely different situation, carrying a different momentum.
Having strippers around is hardly something people can just ignore, so either you go with it and enjoy it or you feel left outside, which is what the guy who wrote Jayzo on Facebook expressed fairly eloquently.
This thread is super weird. I am not sure what to think.
Perhaps pics would clarify if the Strippers were worth it. :D But yeah, hell why not. 75 guys all drinking lots of drink. Adding strippers to the equation is gonna be a good night! Especially as most of them are not married !
I dont see why people think this is wrong. What? Live a little!
On December 15 2010 01:36 N3rV[Green] wrote: I blame religion poisoning people's minds. Like honestly who other than the holy Christians can't handle checking out some tits? And the way that letter of complaint was written this guy probably has a major stick right up his ass called Jesus.
I am seriously confused as to HOW naked chicks can be a bad thing. Really all I can think of is if they were ugly.....
Sex is nothing bad at all, It's actually pretty fucking amazing. People that think sex and anything to do with sex (so strippers making some men a little excited) is wrong are just plain lost in reality.
Really? So you'd be ok with dating a stripper? Or better yet, a prostitute? Because sex is nothing bad at all!
What? Why would I date a stripper? I mean if she was fucking awesome and the greatest girl I've ever met, and she happened to be a stripper cause she thought whatever about it was cool, then sure I'll date a hot ass chick that other people pay to look at. As for the second option...I would date an ESCORT, but not a WHORE. See the difference? WHORES just throw themselves at any dick at full mast. (which is fine, let them do what they wish). I would honestly rather never have a "girlfriend" so far I haven't had a girlfriend all year, never had more action all year.
I seriously don't understand your logic and thinking sir that quoted me...do you think sex is bad?
Ever had sex? Shits pretty fucking cash.
Sup mr. Jersey Shore. I'm 26 and I live with my girlfriend for 1 year, so yeah, I had sex! Thanks tho, I'm sure that apart from me and you, nobody else around here did. *WINK WINK* *NUDGE NUDGE*. WE'RE SO AWESOME!
My point was the morals of the whole thing. You think WHORES are disgusting, bla bla bla. Some people might think that strippers are disgusting (I'm thinking mostly of other girls here), and wouldn't enjoy knowing that their boyfriend/husband enjoys drooling over such women. Just as I would probably not date a girl who feels the need to go to male strip clubs. I like people who can get sex without (directly :D) paying for it.
So yeah, it's inappropriate in the context where most of the people there were not expecting it. It's not a bachelor party, it would be stupid to get offended in such occasions, but when it's a reunion, you're not going there to 'grab some ass'. And you don't want other people to have that impression over you either.
I'm sure that most of the comments with "FUCK YEAH", "THAT'S COOL, "REAL MEN WOULD ENJOY IT", are from guys who are under 21 anyway.
Huge misstep by the organizer. The complaint letter may have missed something though---that kind of entertainment is bound to alienate some people, however, just about any entertainment imaginable would be bound to alienate some people. It wouldn't be possible to find a band everyone loved, or a party theme everyone loved or whatever like that. The important difference is that strippers ARE a moral issue for many people--so the people who aren't able to enjoy that kind of show can't even 'grin and bear it' without incurring guilt, or being offended or something like that. In case you're wondering, i'm one of those people that would be totally put off by something like this.
On December 15 2010 01:46 Iracor wrote: Being that it was an all male school, there shouldn't really be problem with it. However, I can see how someone in a committed relationship would be turned off by the whole thing.
I'd just like to point out that the largest group of strip club clientelle are married men over the age of 30, guys who can go out and get laid whenever they want aren't so interested in Stippers.
Back on topic...
75 guys in a room drinking beer, all that's missing is strippers. Seriously.
If there were women, then no strippers as that would be insensitive, but 75 drunk dudes in a room together with no women? That's not normal, even for gay guys.
Perhaps those who were offended should lighten up and realise that a party full of guys in their 20's won't be fun for long. You haven't seen eachother in years, you have all changed and grown up and you probably don't have much to say to each other.... at least thats what it was like at my school reuinion.
I spoke to god knows how many people and all I could think for the entire night was "now I remember why I thought you were a dick/bitch". I would have killed to have some excitment!
Considering that you are from Australia, one of the least backwards countries in the world when it comes to debauchery, I am suprised that this was even an issue. Its also very suspect when someone sits thru said stripper show and then complains the next day. I'm willing to bet he has a gf at home who he had to appease, because there are very few men who find looking at naked women offensive or inappropriate when only in the company of other men. My best friend is gay and anytime we are somewhere there are strippers he is the one suggesting we take a look, and all our other gay friends are usually the ones that agree with him while the straight ones are a bit more suspect as they have gf's to go home to lol.
edit: I should point out the gay guys have bf's but their bf's are usually with us anyway.
On December 15 2010 02:21 krew406 wrote: 74 guys enjoy stripper 1 doesnt. 74 guys are vegetarian 1 eats meat.. who loses here
I suppose the point made by the guy who wrote Jayzo on Facebook is that it was likely more than one person. If it's ten people, is that really ten people you want to alienize over choice of entertainment?
The point was made that if it was announced on beforehand it would be easier to reach the consensus that you describe and find out who likes what. If everyone is alright with the strippers while one guy vehemently complains, then they have the choice of saying "oh no, that guy! Oh well, we'll accommodate his special needs again" or simply deciding to ignore his complains for the "better" of the group.
why would you sit through the entire show, then bitch and complain.
what was the crowds reaction? were most people enjoying the.......exhibition? if they were then clearly most of them didnt mind about the strippers.
If on the other hand you all stood there in near silence, then clearly it was a faux pas.
Stop thinking with your dick.
Who in their right mind would do something like this when the group is 75 people. No shit that's going to offend SOMEONE and cause more than a little bit of awkwardness. People have all kinds of reasons for it too - girlfriend, religion, being a prude, or just wanting to keep their sexual interests to themselves.
Edit: Also, didn't 3 other guys leave? So of 75, 3 left [presumably offended] and 1 complained loudly.
On December 15 2010 02:32 krew406 wrote: Asjo, you sir are trying to destroy the ancient art of the suprise
Oh, you're right.
I do have a point, though, so maybe if the surprise element is important, a reunion wouldn't be the best place to do it. It's unlikely that you know the people in it well enough to know whether they would appreciate a stripper. If you do, of course, it wouldn't be a problem.
Then again, with it being an all-boys school, maybe it was more necessary. Maybe the event acted as a release of some kind. Of course, I wouldn't know - you would have to have experienced it. My main point was that not wanting strippers is likely not just about people being sexually uncomfortable or stuck-up (religion, relationship, etc.).
Getting fully naked and staying that way in the middle of a social gathering is a fun way to spice up those boring holiday parties, but it takes both physical and emotional dexterity to successfully execute. You can't simply tear your clothes off and be done with it. You have to ease your way into it; you have to use a little something called finesse.
Let's be honest: we've all been there, leaning against the bar in some dank dive, 75 of your close friends leering at and skulking around two beaten-up, manky strippers. Candy, the younger of the two, grinds on a bar stool, her vacant expression no alibi for her wandering thoughts. You wonder what shattered dreams or broken childhood she pines for as she begins to perform fellatio on her own fist. The other stripper, whom you've dubbed, "The Skeksis," writhes around on the buffet table before suggesting body shots. You struggle to hold down the beer you've been nursing as they fit two full shots and a mixer into her belly button. Your eyes glaze over and the dark, Fincher-esque bar, looking like a scene from Eyes Wide Shut, fades from focus as you daydream about being somewhere that doesn't make you feel inexplicably greasy.
But all is not lost, friends, for you still have your trump card, your ace-in-the-hole, the one thing that never fails to make a party interesting (at least for you). Getting naked! Getting naked in front of a crowd of people with subtlety and grace is a logistical nightmare, but thankfully there are some guidelines to keep in mind that will help smooth out the process:
Take your clothes off slowly, maintaining eye contact with whomever you were conversing with. Don't wear clothing that is difficult to remove, or expensive to replace should you have to leave it behind in a hurry.
Try not to have a boner when you get naked. Naked + Flaccid = Casual, Non-Threatening. Naked + Erect = Aggressive, Threatening, Might try to mount me. If you know you can't help yourself, you may want to look into some novelty items to disguise or dress-up your penis, like a tiny Santa hat.
Don't fart. Without clothes to act as a buffer, pure fart can prove quite toxic, not to mention the dangers of some fecal matter making a daring escape. Many first-timers get excited during their initial attempt, and bad things can happen when you mix booze, adrenaline and a cavalier fart policy.
Have fun with it! While the rest of your 75 closest friends watch Candy twirl around a support beam and absent-mindedly pick at her scabs, you'll be experiencing a whole new world of freedom. Enjoy that breeze, buddy. You've earned it.
I think it's absolutely fine if it was for the after party, and personally that would probably heavily influence my decision regarding whether I want to attend the reunion or not. I've yet to attend a reunion, but it sounds really damn boring and 2 strippers at the after party would definitely spice things up. Plus you said that you guys know each other fairly well, so I don't see how it would be awkward if no one there is married yet.
I don't think it's that bad, but I probably wouldn't do something like that.
If it's only ~20 minutes, and it's all guys, and it's an AFTER party, not the reunion itself, who cares! Not a biggie in my opinion. But once again, prob wouldn't suggest it myself.
1) I personally don't think I would find it inappropriate but I can see how someone might. That does not make them gay but it might say they have some REALLY twisted sexual tastes. I personally am not a big fan of strippers, but I don't like window-shopping either.
2) If 75 people were present and only 1 complained, consider it a success. If 75 people showed up and 65 thought it was a boring waste of time, you just had the typical high school reunion.
3) 5 year reunions are weaksauce, even more-so if you guys are tight friends. You have a reunion every time you go out. I went to HS with a graduating class of like 300 and couldn't stand the idea of a ten year reunion.
Um if people were so offended they could have just left. But of course thats not how easily offended people normally operate, they like to expose themselves as much as possible to said "offensive" material in order to justify their whining and complaining later on.
On December 15 2010 02:57 Brent352 wrote: Um if people were so offended they could have just left. But of course thats not how easily offended people normally operate, they like to expose themselves as much as possible to said "offensive" material in order to justify their whining and complaining later on.
This ignores social pressure to stay at the event and pretend to be enjoying it, and also that the guy may have decided that, in the interest of being with his buddies, he'd like to stay despite not being a fan of the strippers. Also "offended" isn't really the right word here. From the guy's message, it just seems like he felt uncomfortable and that the strippers weren't the right fit for the event. That's much more reasonable than actually feeling personally affronted at the sight of a stripper. (If it's possible to say that the guy was offended, it'd have to be on the basis that his friends would do something at a big gathering that would make a good number of the people there uncomfortable, not the strippers per se.)
Have any of you ever seen something slightly "off," not said anything at the time, and then realized later that what happened wasn't quite right and you ought speak up? I think that's a pretty common feeling, and looks like this guy had it.
That letter is so full of half-truths and hypocrisy that you shouldn't worry about it. The insincerity gushes off the page. Don't let these people police you life with their own set of values and morality(despite whatever they say to the contrary). Live your life to the fullest, and with no regrets.
On December 14 2010 19:08 UGC4 wrote: stripers are welcome just about any time in my book...
yep and too anyone who hasn't been i suggest you go, just walk out when you see a really beautiful girl like i do, now thats fuckin weird, i walk out on the ones i wish were mine. :D im nice guy i think bcus of that. i like petite, young looking women ofc. so yeah.. strippers are awesome!
On December 14 2010 20:46 Piste wrote: someone likes to drink, another likes to see some girls. What's the problem? everyone can decide wether to view or not.
it's ok.
The guy in the letter is worried about it alienating certain people, which it certainly does. If I don't drink and you do, then you drink, I don't, and we can still hang out. If one guy doesn't like to see girls and another does, it makes it kind of difficult for both of them to simultaneously get their wishes.
Unless those girls only last for 20 minutes of a 12 hour (?) period or so. If you're really that offended you can go sit outside by yourself.
Yeah it's probably not appropriate really. At an all boys school it's kind of borderline. Personally I wouldn't have cared at all. A group of guys watching strippers is fine. But yeah the fact there were teachers and parents present at the main reunion sits kind of strange haha.
On December 14 2010 20:18 decafchicken wrote: Can he organize my 5 year reunion as well?
It's like saying lets watch the football game after the reunion. Guys like tits. I wouldn't mind sharing a beer with guys i never even talked to in high school in front of a nice set of boobs.
Thank you.
Putting some sense in people's fucking mind. Plus, Zephyr said it, something needs to spice up these after-5-years shitty reunions. Strippers are the way.
IN the other hand, the guy is in total right to complain, and he did in a classy manner, so props to him too. .
I've always found watching strippers with lots of school friends really awkard, its just not my thing. I don't have problem with smaller groups though.
On December 14 2010 19:24 KwarK wrote: I agree that it's inappropriate.
This.
Seriously, people still say "This."?
Stop that.
This.
jk, I had to
Anyways, if it was an event with people that were close to me, then yeah it's fine. But with people I don't normally talk to or converse with, and haven't seen in years it is DEFINITELY weird. Sure strippers are great etc etc but at the same time its a sexual interaction with people you know, but at the same time aren't on a stable relationship with. If it was strangers i.e. strip club, no worries, you'll never see them again. If it's close friends, it's fun and not awkward. But acquaintances and people you don't know very well... pointless and awkward.
On December 14 2010 20:39 d_so wrote: the fuck? any guy who uses the word "inappropriate" amongst friends is a tool in my book, and why the hell would anyone hate strippers
On December 15 2010 04:39 VonLego wrote: Not cool.
I'd be pretty upset and leave before the "show."
you would be UPSET? is this a joke? are you trolling me right now? i don't even comprehend some of the responses on this thread. it's the most natural thing in the world to want to see a naked woman, you guys feigning disgust make me laugh
On December 15 2010 04:39 VonLego wrote: Not cool.
I'd be pretty upset and leave before the "show."
you would be UPSET? is this a joke? are you trolling me right now? i don't even comprehend some of the responses on this thread. it's the most natural thing in the world to want to see a naked woman, you guys feigning disgust make me laugh
If you don't comprehend it, you should go back a few pages. I already gave a few good reasons for why people might feel the way they do in my post.
You could argue that there is the instinct of the man being attracted to the body of the woman. But just like with so many instincts, it can be overruled by our intellect. So, the instinct of wanting to see a naked woman is not what's the deciding factor here. The concept of stripping is. And it might be "the most natural thing in the world" in your social environment, but it's definitely not in mine.
I'm curious as to why you would think that these people are "feigning" disgust. I assume you are referring to the posters in this topic. Who would they think they're fooling? Themselves? Most people here would disagree with them, so it wouldn't be for their benefit.
I think its inappropriate for the main event - but if it was for an after party which no one was required to attend I don't really see how its any different than gathering up everyone who wanted to go to a strip club and heading out. I guess the issue seems to be that it was a little bit more closely associated with the main event than it probably should have been
It was an after party.. Therefore not the official reunion. If it was at your reunion sure, but its stated as the after party of it so I belive that is all square.
This just seems like something Gob from Arrested Development would do... No it just seems wierd and out of place, unless the strippers were in your class :D
May I say, that is definitely weird as sin. What was the guy thinking? A reunion should involve food, sitting down, and talking. It's not a bachelor party, unless you guys want to hang out afterward at a Bar/etc.
I like to see boobs.. It's only on forums like this with so much self righteousness from it's posters could something so normal (boobs = cool) be taken as "disgust"
I have no problems like this, and even if it had been a party for both genders i don't think it would have been a problem.. Boobs are nice, even I like to look at them.
For those who think it may be "demeaning" flip it around in your head, I bet you'd feel quite the powerful man/stud if people were willing to give you large sums of money to take your pants off.
Firstly, I think a 5 year reunion is kinda retarded. Secondly, if people feel alienated it defeats the purpose of a reunion. Thirdly, it just feels weird.
On December 15 2010 05:27 Alejandrisha wrote: I think it was a terrible idea. automatically alienates a lof of the people who attended which I think is the biggest deal
Ok, who does it alienate? Gay people? Hispanics? Whites? Midgets???
I don't have a clue where this idea of "it alienates people" comes from, especially in a room of drunk guys :O. Maybe the religious I guess? That's about the only "group" of people i can think of who still think that flesh is evil or morally wrong, and that desire should be repressed etc etc but then again from previous topics on TL I think most people here are Atheist, and in a lot of cases "anti religious"
Yeah... I dunno... it's something different. I would go and feel a little awkward but I would probably have a good time and its better than the normal boring class reunion shit. I'd rather see a couple of nice boobs that play scrabble.
It sucks that some people felt alienated but I wouldn't think its that big of a deal.
you mean your asking us wether it is in bad taste that someone organised strippers for a group of 75 male friends who havent seen eachother in 5 years and are already planning on drinking til dawn? good god man the organiser deserves a statue!
"Stripper haters" is an unfortunately formulation, as no one has said anything bad about the strippers themselves, but I can see how "people who dislike the concept of strippers" would sound a bit strange
As for the paid fried thing, I think it depends entirely on how it's done. As such, people getting together is a very good thing, and introducing payment as a way for people to spend time together without too much after-thought could lead to some good things.
Let me give you an example. While the concept of mail-order brides as such is terrible, it can create some interesting situations that break some barriers. Some insecure British working-guy in his thirties is terribly lonely, socially awkward and needs company, and some poor Russian beauty hestitantly agrees to be his partner. As a results of feeling a bit used in the situation and feeling bad about uprooting without attaching any particular value to her new home, the woman is very standoffish. For her own dignity, she makes it clear that she will not in any way by physical or intimate unless he wants to. She constantly cusses at the guy, despite being willing to help out with some domestic duties. The guy simply appreciates her presence, and is learning to deal with the challenge of living with another person on a daily basis. The guy wants to get close to her, but is too careful to try anything. This keeps up for a few months. This pattern eventually turns into a normal routine, and they end up getting more comfortable with each other. The Russian woman softens up a bit and starts to trust the guy not to make her feel indignified. Eventually, they both grow from the situation and are better off.
Similarly, it could be a Thai woman coming to USA as the mail-order bride of an charming American guy who has a particular fancy for Thai women. This guy is fairly confident, knows what he wants, and, while not explicitly, is able to pressure the Thai woman into doing all the domestic chores and having sex with him whenever he wants, because she would be thrown out of the country if they seperate. The Thai woman feels that, overall, she is better off, because she now has more personal and economic liberties, but as the same time she feels bad about being in a situation where she has to repress herself. That would be a negative example. Similarly, the employees at the "Maid Café" might find themselves enjoying this completely non-commiting but friendly interaction with others. They might find that they are expanding their horizon by going beyond their barrier of what they don't initially like of feel uncomfortable. Often friendly interaction between people will not come naturally but will be motivated by certain needs (approval, security, favours) or fears (aggression, anger, expectations of others) that people have. Therefore, this job wouldn't be much of a stretch as long as its under your control. On the other hand, you might have a negative example where the women don't have any initiative at all, and are forced be the company to follow various strict guide-lines to interact. They feel that the have to suppres themselves to fit into the role, cross very intimate boundaries and be very dishonest. The conditions at their workplace might cause them to be forced into a very submissive behaviour, enacting a very demeaning role, not to lose the job.
Definitely like the idea better than stripping. But it could be much worse than stripping ever is, depending on how it's carried out.
On December 15 2010 05:30 ProtossGirl wrote: I like to see boobs.. It's only on forums like this with so much self righteousness from it's posters could something so normal (boobs = cool) be taken as "disgust"
I have no problems like this, and even if it had been a party for both genders i don't think it would have been a problem.. Boobs are nice, even I like to look at them.
For those who think it may be "demeaning" flip it around in your head, I bet you'd feel quite the powerful man/stud if people were willing to give you large sums of money to take your pants off.
It is demeaning. I'll help you out with flipping it around in your head.
You live in a society where women are the traditional head of the household. They put food on the table, pay the bills, and have the most important jobs in science, government, and industry. As a man, you are not valued based on your contributions to these fields, even if you have a career in one of them. You are judged mostly based upon your appearance. Magazines at the cash register have 'shops of all the hottest men wearing next to nothing. You can easily notice that women, regardless of the context (work/leisure) are more interested in talking to and being around more attractive men.
Most men are looking for love and intimacy as an important part of their sex life. They want to have sex, but with someone they feel safe with, someone they feel loved by, someone they respect. Generally, this more true the older the man gets. Most men as they start to get into their 30s tend to want a family as well. Unfortunately, it is all too common that as they lose their attractiveness, their wife will leave them for someone younger.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
lol, 75 single men in one room - how is that possible, I would guess you all would be thankful being that close to a girl? but then again they are strippers and maybe you dont want to get that close...
What he did is weird but the response letter is just... bitchy. The guy orginized the reunion and threw in his own joke, your letter is written like it's from some self-promoted administerative authority declaring the event planner an unsuitable individual. It is beyond obnoxious to distance yourself from someone who had the balls to attempt such a risky joke.
To end the letter with cheers... was he trying to make him angry? It definetly doesn't lighten the tone of the harsh and formal attack. Really, to tell him that the strippers were innapropriate, it should be done in a more casual way and atleast not through writing that promotes the sender as a mythic creature of justice. He may atleast come to agree, gracefuly with the writer this way rather than instead find himself becoming the angry reciever of some anonymous individuals declaration of wrong-doing.
I mean what if instead we critisized the letter in a likewise manner? How obnoxious would it sound?
Dear Friend
I am astonsihed at your inabillity to appropriatly relate to your former accociates.
I am under the impression that a past notice of your's embarresed himself by commiting to an unfavorable joke at a friendly reunion that he commisioned.
Your fulsome behavior was so unquestionably unjust, that I feel it is neccecary to make clear the atrociousness of you action.
If dudes feel alienated from other duuds because of boobs, something is off.
Isn't the point of a reunion to have fun together or something? Never been to one but I'd imagine the idea is to get together, have some drinks, smoke some pot or whatever and chill with your friends you haven't seen in a looooong time. Not sit in the living room talking about mathematics and have a tea ceremony.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
...I can't tell if you're trolling, but you do realize that male strippers already exist, right? That males are glamorized, "exploited", and voluntarily shown off as sex models?
You're flipping absolutely nothing on its head. Except for, perhaps, your own strawman.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
...I can't tell if you're trolling, but you do realize that male strippers already exist, right?
You're flipping absolutely nothing on its head.
Male strippers are the butt of a bad joke. Do you know any? do you take them seriously? are they valuable to society?
Compare the role of female strippers in our society to the role of male strippers. The inequality I'm talking about is still apparent. Women strippers are viewed differently because they are "supposed" to be sex objects, whereas male strippers are a joke because they are "supposed" to have real jobs.
Also, the relative numbers of male/female strippers and strip clubs further proves the points I made above about gender roles and expectations.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
...I can't tell if you're trolling, but you do realize that male strippers already exist, right?
You're flipping absolutely nothing on its head.
Male strippers are the butt of a bad joke. Do you know any? do you take them seriously? are they valuable to society?
Compare the role of female strippers in our society to the role of male strippers. The inequality I'm talking about is still apparent. Women strippers are viewed differently because they are "supposed" to be sex objects, whereas male strippers are a joke because they are "supposed" to have real jobs.
Also, the relative numbers of male/female strippers and strip clubs further proves the points I made above about gender roles and expectations.
Supply and demand man.
why do you think i have a shitty attitude? Why be a ball aching prick about it? (shit i dont have balls but you make me ache anyway) If you really think the feminists of today are doing a good job, with high value to society, think again.
P.S in almost every women's magazine there are picutres of men in tight little pants showing their manly bulge, photoshopped physiques and sunlit packages.. and you know what? Its Great.
Just like women, men can be appreciated for their bodies as well as their other attributes. I'm sure many men may see me as a sexual object, and thats fine, because i look back into their eyes and i see sex too. Many other men see me for my personality too, and that's also great i have talents and abilities, and i recognise those of the men i find sexually attractive.
You are acting just like the guy who says "im not racist, i have a black friend"
Theres a large difference between the poverty ending empowerment of women, and the narrow minded views of todays feminists moaning that people find them attractive and are happy to pay to see them naked.
If I was lonely and wanted to see some male flesh, and couldnt find anyone willing in a bar, Maybe i'd pay a stripper? maybe a lot of people would. If both parties are willing, whats the problem?
On December 14 2010 20:01 Cyber_Cheese wrote: if it was guys only it makes more sense, but some people might be married etc so its not appropriate
Wait...married guys aren't allowed to see strippers? Hookers I'd agree, but strippers? Do married guys have to close their eyes if they flash some boobs during a movie too? I joke.
But if it was an all guys school, it's meant to be a fun time and I don't see the problem with it. It'd be like the ultimate boys night out with 75 friends you probably haven't seen for awhile. And at least 50% of boys nights out should include strippers.
edit: /clap protossgirl I was going to make a number of the comments you did, but coming from you I think it's even better.
I also love how the pro-feminist's flip on a "male dominated" society makes him come off as sexist, or maybe that was just my take.
Male strippers are the butt of a bad joke. Do you know any? do you take them seriously? are they valuable to society?
Compare the role of female strippers in our society to the role of male strippers. The inequality I'm talking about is still apparent. Women strippers are viewed differently because they are "supposed" to be sex objects, whereas male strippers are a joke because they are "supposed" to have real jobs.
Also, the relative numbers of male/female strippers and strip clubs further proves the points I made above about gender roles and expectations.
Err...no, you view female strippers differently because YOU think they are considered sex objects. YOU think male strippers are "supposed to have "real" jobs. Your inability to separate YOUR viewpoint from "society's" viewpoint, whatever the hell that means, is astonishing. By unambiguously stereotyping "strippers" and "society", you, in effect, reveal your own bias and insecurities. Not that of "society".
I can't believe that you'd even ask those rhetorical questions in a serious manner. I'd argue that the value of a human being is completely separate from his or her job and, instead, depends on character, on an individual basis. But hey, what do I know about stereotyping?
Male strippers are the butt of a bad joke. Do you know any? do you take them seriously? are they valuable to society?
Compare the role of female strippers in our society to the role of male strippers. The inequality I'm talking about is still apparent. Women strippers are viewed differently because they are "supposed" to be sex objects, whereas male strippers are a joke because they are "supposed" to have real jobs.
Also, the relative numbers of male/female strippers and strip clubs further proves the points I made above about gender roles and expectations.
Err...no, you view female strippers differently because YOU think they are considered sex objects. YOU think male strippers are "supposed to have "real" jobs. Your inability to separate YOUR viewpoint from "society's" viewpoint, whatever the hell that means, is astonishing. By unambiguously stereotyping "strippers" and "society", you, in effect, reveal your own bias and insecurities. Not that of "society".
I can't believe that you'd even ask those rhetorical questions in a serious manner. I'd argue that the value of a human being is completely separate from his or her job and, instead, depends on character, on an individual basis. But hey, what do I know about stereotyping?
Agree with this.
___________________
I think that asspained guy is trolling or was brought up by one of those extremely tight laced 80 year old women, with 1900's views of morality.. and unfortunately.. she made him do things..
It's the only way he inane rant makes sense. He's stereotyping so much its embarrassing, and painting his views onto the views of the masses. That's pretty wrong in the head.
Why are male strippers a joke? Because he thinks they are? Don't be so self serving man. If a man with a well developed body sees opportunity to make a lot of money doing something as easy as taking his clothes off.. then good for him.
I think this is acceptable(albeit close to crossing the line) due to the two factors mentioned by the OP: small graduating class size(leads to people being closer with each other--> more comfortable in this type of situation) and it being an all male school.
Edit: By the way the guy who sent the letter is a bitch.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
...I can't tell if you're trolling, but you do realize that male strippers already exist, right?
You're flipping absolutely nothing on its head.
Male strippers are the butt of a bad joke. Do you know any? do you take them seriously? are they valuable to society?
Compare the role of female strippers in our society to the role of male strippers. The inequality I'm talking about is still apparent. Women strippers are viewed differently because they are "supposed" to be sex objects, whereas male strippers are a joke because they are "supposed" to have real jobs.
Also, the relative numbers of male/female strippers and strip clubs further proves the points I made above about gender roles and expectations.
Supply and demand man.
why do you think i have a shitty attitude? Why be a ball aching prick about it? (shit i dont have balls but you make me ache anyway) If you really think the feminists of today are doing a good job, with high value to society, think again.
P.S in almost every women's magazine there are picutres of men in tight little pants showing their manly bulge, photoshopped physiques and sunlit packages.. and you know what? Its Great.
Just like women, men can be appreciated for their bodies as well as their other attributes. I'm sure many men may see me as a sexual object, and thats fine, because i look back into their eyes and i see sex too. Many other men see me for my personality too, and that's also great i have talents and abilities, and i recognise those of the men i find sexually attractive.
You are acting just like the guy who says "im not racist, i have a black friend"
Theres a large difference between the poverty ending empowerment of women, and the narrow minded views of todays feminists moaning that people find them attractive and are happy to pay to see them naked.
If I was lonely and wanted to see some male flesh, and couldnt find anyone willing in a bar, Maybe i'd pay a stripper? maybe a lot of people would. If both parties are willing, whats the problem?
TBH, I regret the 'shitty attitude' comment. Sorry for being a prick. But to answer your points:
It's likely that England/Europe are ahead of the US in terms of gender equality. That might be part of why we're not seeing eye-to-eye. However, I'm having a hard time imagining a 5-year reunion for a all female school where it would be acceptable to have a male stripper.
When I think of females stripping, I think of the girls on 4chan that want to be accepted according to societal standards so badly that when the options are TITS OR GTFO, they choose to expose themselves. That is demeaning. When a man refers to a woman as a cumdumpster (common on shock-jock radio shows and 4chan), he means the woman is a toilet for his 'other' body fluids. That is demeaning. If you actually are a female, then it's possible you don't understand how base, how crass, how un-evolved males can be and often are in this regard. If you want to find out, listen to Tom Leykis or spend an hour on 4chan.
Porn, strip shows, prostitution all reinforce this conception that females are here to serve the needs of males, specifically the sexual needs. That is why I have a problem with those things.
Incidentally, I also have a problem with 'equality' based on men being equally objectified as women. However, in my experience, I perceive little danger of that.
Male strippers are the butt of a bad joke. Do you know any? do you take them seriously? are they valuable to society?
Compare the role of female strippers in our society to the role of male strippers. The inequality I'm talking about is still apparent. Women strippers are viewed differently because they are "supposed" to be sex objects, whereas male strippers are a joke because they are "supposed" to have real jobs.
Also, the relative numbers of male/female strippers and strip clubs further proves the points I made above about gender roles and expectations.
Err...no, you view female strippers differently because YOU think they are considered sex objects. YOU think male strippers are "supposed to have "real" jobs. Your inability to separate YOUR viewpoint from "society's" viewpoint, whatever the hell that means, is astonishing. By unambiguously stereotyping "strippers" and "society", you, in effect, reveal your own bias and insecurities. Not that of "society".
I can't believe that you'd even ask those rhetorical questions in a serious manner. I'd argue that the value of a human being is completely separate from his or her job and, instead, depends on character, on an individual basis. But hey, what do I know about stereotyping?
If you were more correct than me about 'society', why have we not had a female president yet? why is there still to this day a 'glass ceiling' for high-power/exec type jobs? Why is 99% of the porn industry targeted at men, not 50%? Hell, why did we elect Bush twice? Do you think that the majority of the US is like-minded to you?
To get back to the original point: I have a problem with strippers because it reinforces negative attitudes towards women which I observe to be prevalent in our society. There are logically four parts here, you tell me which one you have a problem with. 1) Women stripping encourages men to view them as sex objects 2) Women being viewed purely as sex objects is demeaning 3) I observe that women are in fact commonly regarded purely as sex objects. (examples i gave: Tom Leykis, 4chan) 4) Stripping therefore is contributing negatively.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
...I can't tell if you're trolling, but you do realize that male strippers already exist, right?
You're flipping absolutely nothing on its head.
Male strippers are the butt of a bad joke. Do you know any? do you take them seriously? are they valuable to society?
Compare the role of female strippers in our society to the role of male strippers. The inequality I'm talking about is still apparent. Women strippers are viewed differently because they are "supposed" to be sex objects, whereas male strippers are a joke because they are "supposed" to have real jobs.
Also, the relative numbers of male/female strippers and strip clubs further proves the points I made above about gender roles and expectations.
Supply and demand man.
why do you think i have a shitty attitude? Why be a ball aching prick about it? (shit i dont have balls but you make me ache anyway) If you really think the feminists of today are doing a good job, with high value to society, think again.
P.S in almost every women's magazine there are picutres of men in tight little pants showing their manly bulge, photoshopped physiques and sunlit packages.. and you know what? Its Great.
Just like women, men can be appreciated for their bodies as well as their other attributes. I'm sure many men may see me as a sexual object, and thats fine, because i look back into their eyes and i see sex too. Many other men see me for my personality too, and that's also great i have talents and abilities, and i recognise those of the men i find sexually attractive.
You are acting just like the guy who says "im not racist, i have a black friend"
Theres a large difference between the poverty ending empowerment of women, and the narrow minded views of todays feminists moaning that people find them attractive and are happy to pay to see them naked.
If I was lonely and wanted to see some male flesh, and couldnt find anyone willing in a bar, Maybe i'd pay a stripper? maybe a lot of people would. If both parties are willing, whats the problem?
TBH, I regret the 'shitty attitude' comment. Sorry for being a prick. But to answer your points:
It's likely that England/Europe are ahead of the US in terms of gender equality. That might be part of why we're not seeing eye-to-eye. However, I'm having a hard time imagining a 5-year reunion for a all female school where it would be acceptable to have a male stripper.
When I think of females stripping, I think of the girls on 4chan that want to be accepted according to societal standards so badly that when the options are TITS OR GTFO, they choose to expose themselves. That is demeaning. When a man refers to a woman as a cumdumpster (common on shock-jock radio shows and 4chan), he means the woman is a toilet for his 'other' body fluids. That is demeaning. If you actually are a female, then it's possible you don't understand how base, how crass, how un-evolved males can be and often are in this regard. If you want to find out, listen to Tom Leykis or spend an hour on 4chan.
Porn, strip shows, prostitution all reinforce this conception that females are here to serve the needs of males, specifically the sexual needs. That is why I have a problem with those things.
Incidentally, I also have a problem with 'equality' based on men being equally objectified as women. However, in my experience, I perceive little danger of that.
Takes a lot to say that you regret something, rather than just compounding it, So for that i respect you, and I also respect and understand your points, however i think the lens that we see the world through are just different regarding this.
I've seen 4chan, I've seen the rate me threads, and the "tits or gtfo", I've seen white knights and "rape threads", and I've also come to learn that this just doesn't represent the real thoughts the posters have, its just for kicks, to get a rise out of others. In real life a lot of them tend to be lonely, quite sensitive and nice and would love to just talk to another human being for a while.
Evolutionarily men want to dominate women, and women (now this might be a strong statement to make, and highly controversial) want to be dominated.
I don't mean disrespectfully, but I mean, women, or at least the ones I work and socialise with and study, want a strong man, with strong passion for her flesh, they want their men to grab them and kiss them, to be admired for their Appearances.
I don't wear make-up because it objectifies me and because i've been suckered into a society and mental state that makes me feel inadequate.. I do it for the same reasons I work out, I like to look nice, and if i can enhance my perceived "beauty" to higher levels, then damnit I'm going to do it, because thinking people enjoy looking at me boosts my confidence - Same story for anything non sexually related, like Starcraft, if it's possible to be taken more seriously in the community by posting on teamliquid, then people, including me, are likely to do it. (on top of all the connection and experience building :D)
I've kind of gone off point here a little bit, but i hope the justifications for my viewpoints have somewhat come out with these words. And I'd be intrigued to hear more about the differences between American/European views of women and sexuality too, I'm of the opinion that there are very few differences between them, at least in England and "The US", although my only first hand experience of the US is new york and boston, neither places i'd connect to modesty and old fashioned values. (i have a limited view of the country for sure)
Strippers would be fine if you were expecting them, but seriously, if what I got at home is good, and it is, why the crap do I want to sit around a bunch of people I grew up with and get an erection? If I'm with my lady, that's when I want to get turned on, when I can do something about it. When I'm surrounded by my guy friends from high school, it's more fun to kick back a few and catch up.
And, since not having strippers is more generally accepted than having strippers sprung on you, yeah, the organizer screwed up. If someone sent out an invitation to a reunion and specifically mentioned that there wouldn't be strippers, you might crack a joke or two, but you'd probably think something along the lines of: I wasn't expecting any.
Still funny since it happened to someone else, still hilarious even if it had happened to me.
Not okay, even if guys only. If it were me I'd go, but I have friends who wouldn't and/or would feel very awkward. This isn't just a bunch of buddies doing whatever, it's a class reunion. Telling them to "lighten up" is selfish and immature.
No. Just no -_- At minimum least warning should have been given out with invitation. When I think of High School reunion, the word prostitute fails to automatically re-associate with the event you know?
I've seen 4chan, I've seen the rate me threads, and the "tits or gtfo", I've seen white knights and "rape threads", and I've also come to learn that this just doesn't represent the real thoughts the posters have, its just for kicks, to get a rise out of others. In real life a lot of them tend to be lonely, quite sensitive and nice and would love to just talk to another human being for a while.
I think this separation of the virtual self from the "actual" self is pretty dubious. The comments and actions people make online are just a part of them as how they'd act in your presence. Yes there's a big difference between say someone using racial slurs in a game of DOTA and someone using them in person, but they're still inappropriate regardless. The whole "it's the internet" fallacy is really getting too much play IMO. If you're serious about such notions as character, then it's not a good excuse. Not digging on you per se, but every time I see this argument I have to grit my teeth.
As to the OPs event, not everyone wants to have sex involved in every aspect of their lives. Maybe they just wanted to see what everyone was up to? It's ok to be heterosexual and find it inappropriate. Whether it's offensive or not, well I'm not going near that one.
So if so many people are like FUCK YEAH STRIPPERS! Then, would it be such a big deal to mention that strippers is going to be on the agenda ahead of time? After all, it's not such big deal right? Just put it on the invite.
At least then, everyone knows what they're getting into- girlfriends and wives included. Because it's just strippers.
I would want to know if there were strippers and wouldn't bother coming. If in that situation, I would have walked out. I wouldn't be offended, but I'd leave. But I suspect there'd be another 10 that are kinda uncomfortable with the concept, but won't leave.
So save your reunion buddies the discomfort and put it right up front rather than springing it on everybody part way through- or have an after-party or whatever.
wf who has 5 year reunions, and it was all guys and all of you complained about strippers?? Was this a homsexual boarding school or something? Otherwise I see this as Very very appropriate. A bunch of guys hanging out drinking/partying, is the only appropriate time to have it. Sounds more like some 5 year old grudges were brought back to the surface. I doubt he forced everyone to get a lap dance.
On December 15 2010 07:56 Roflhaxx wrote: If it's an all male school then I don't see the problem tbh.
So if girls were there, it would be a problem? If so, then what about any guys that are going home to girlfriends or wives? Is there a difference between those two scenarios/ would it change if the girlfriends and wives were present during the strip show?
If there is a difference, then we have an interesting contradiction on what is a problem and what isn't.
But if it truly isn't a problem, then let everyone know. Maybe the turn-out will be even bigger, who knows. If it isn't a problem, don't hide it.
On December 15 2010 07:56 Roflhaxx wrote: If it's an all male school then I don't see the problem tbh.
So if girls were there, it would be a problem? If so, then what about any guys that are going home to girlfriends or wives? Is there a difference between those two scenarios/ would it change if the girlfriends and wives were present during the strip show?
If there is a difference, then we have an interesting contradiction on what is a problem and what isn't.
But if it truly isn't a problem, then let everyone know. Maybe the turn-out will be even bigger, who knows. If it isn't a problem, don't hide it.
If you read the OP he said that none of them were married, and yes ofcourse it would (gf) who would wanna get a lapdance with your gf watching. And if you dont want a lapdance then just don't get one its easy as that.
Am I the only one who thinks that having those strippers there is ok? Seriously, they're just strippers. It's not like a donkey show. Besides they were all men, I'd understand if there were women too, they might be offended. It's a sausage party, a few strippers are more than welcome.
Interesting, to say the least. As aforementioned, it was an "after party." Mr. "I claim no purity" did not have to attend, but were people told beforehand that there would be strippers?
The right to express his opinion is...well, his right. He also had the right to leave when the strippers began they're routine, but didn't. Perhaps he was expressing his guilt for having enjoyed it? Maybe others there felt the same and he was speaking for them as well?
I've never heard of strippers being commissioned for reunions; however, as it was an all-male gathering I don't see anything absurdly wrong with it. There are far worse things in this world.
On December 15 2010 07:44 Hesmyrr wrote: No. Just no -_- At minimum least warning should have been given out with invitation. When I think of High School reunion, the word prostitute fails to automatically re-associate with the event you know?
Are all strippers in Canada prostitutes? I've got a take a trip up there sometime.
I also don't associate stripper with 5-year hs reunion; however, I think it'd be pretty awesome for a 20 min strip show to appear at the afterparty. It's like a bachelor party surprise. But I understand that there'll likely be a few naysayers who would be put off, so it's probably not a good idea to just spring that kind of surprise on people. But it's not that big a deal imo if it's only 20 mins at the afterparty for something that lasted until 5am. But maybe it was some religious school seeing as it's an "all male" reunion. Goddamn...an all male reunion...sign me up :/
ProtossGirl: It seems to me that what you say is a perfect example of what aidnai is saying. Because of the way society is currently, you appearences is something that you are particularly aware of, and if you can do anything to improve them, you will. It's not that there isn't a chance that appearances could steal mean something to you if society was different, it's simply about degree. You say that it is, in fact, something you draw confidence from. Instead, many other things could be impotant to you instead, if society was different. What is the problem with this, you might ask. One might say that it puts you into a specific role, wanting to be the pretty girl, instead of many other versions of yourself (yes, soceity norms could also dictate the importance of being a good Starcraft player). You might object: what's the problem? It's natural to me. I'm happy with it. And this is where aidnai might say that, objectively, it has consequences for how women in general are treated in society, devaluating them (an I'm sure you both agree that women and men should have equal worth in society). I'm not sure if that's where you "men should dominate women" sentiment comes in, but I don't see the connection.
I would say that, if this is the case aidnai is making, he is wrong. I think that the emphasis on sex appeal is empowering women. Combined with independence, it acts as a great way for women to manipulate and to promote themselves. The pretty ones, you might say, but it does in general give much more voice to the needs of women, causing the men to pay more attention to this. I think the reason that a lesser percentage of women possess positions of power is mostly due to tradition and men within closed communities giving each other the position. All things that will slowly change in time. With the trends I observe currently, it is likely that women will do somewhat better than men in the working market in the future.
Instead, I would say that the problem here lies in the increased sexualisation in society. Not related to gender, but general interaction. More is focused on sexual relations, appearances, sexual prowess. Many relationships and much interaction is saturated by this. I'm sure many will say: So what, sex is great. And that's where the outlook that you mention comes in. The way I see it, if we change the way we interact, we also change our personalities. And the way I see it, the changes going on are leaning towards the superficial, and also alienates some groups in society. And, I guess, these things being important to me, I pay close attention to that.
You might say that the sexualization of society is one reason I don't like stripping, with it being a symbol af that. However, it's only a little part of it. I also watch porn, and even if I'm not fond of the industry as such, I normally don't mind watching it. I'm very focused on sex (on part of my instincts, I'm sure), but I refuse to let it play too big a part in how a live my life. But what's more important in why I don't like stripping is, as I mentioned before, the situation. While porn sometimes allows for women to express themselves and actually enjoy themselves, stripping is typically tied in with a customer-employee power balance. I think it's hard to express the suddleties of what the act of stripping for money communicates, but in many of the cases the strippers are indulged in an action where they submit to the men. They try as best they can to please or appease them by fully exposing and selling themselves. It's body language, it's power balance. And this is a pattern of behaviour easily replicated if it's common-place and common practise. If nothing else, then the women stripping are subject to and indulged in this kind of behaviour. Of course, some do it because the genuinely just like having the full attention of the audience and appreciate showing off their body, but they only engage in the demaning act of stripping because it's accepted. And then there is the other point that for me, personally, I don't like associations that this stripping promotes. Probably because I want women to be strong and independent, not cater to the sexual demands of men.
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
lol what a stupid post. Strippers exist because there is an inherent demand for them. You know that there are male strippers right? Is that our societies sexism towards men expressing themselves?
No of course not. Modern Feminism is mainly built around combating matriarchal institutions that underprivelage women. It isn't about combating mens innately higher sex drive, and working to repress.
There are a lot of terrible things that exist because there is a demand for them, that doesn't make them right.
Selling weapons to third world countries? Drug dealing? Slave dealing?
These things all exist in the world today, and by your argument they're OK. Several folks put in some real time putting together heartfelt reasoning on why they believe this is wrong. The least one could do when disagreeing with them is to not call them stupid.
On December 15 2010 05:30 ProtossGirl wrote: I like to see boobs.. It's only on forums like this with so much self righteousness from it's posters could something so normal (boobs = cool) be taken as "disgust"
I have no problems like this, and even if it had been a party for both genders i don't think it would have been a problem.. Boobs are nice, even I like to look at them.
For those who think it may be "demeaning" flip it around in your head, I bet you'd feel quite the powerful man/stud if people were willing to give you large sums of money to take your pants off.
It is demeaning. I'll help you out with flipping it around in your head.
You live in a society where women are the traditional head of the household. They put food on the table, pay the bills, and have the most important jobs in science, government, and industry. As a man, you are not valued based on your contributions to these fields, even if you have a career in one of them. You are judged mostly based upon your appearance. Magazines at the cash register have 'shops of all the hottest men wearing next to nothing. You can easily notice that women, regardless of the context (work/leisure) are more interested in talking to and being around more attractive men.
Most men are looking for love and intimacy as an important part of their sex life. They want to have sex, but with someone they feel safe with, someone they feel loved by, someone they respect. Generally, this more true the older the man gets. Most men as they start to get into their 30s tend to want a family as well. Unfortunately, it is all too common that as they lose their attractiveness, their wife will leave them for someone younger.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
Wery well spoken, nice to finally read the opinion of someone who put some thought into the matter between all the mindless repeating of the "strippers = win" cliché just to look cool. Bravo!
On December 15 2010 05:30 ProtossGirl wrote: I like to see boobs.. It's only on forums like this with so much self righteousness from it's posters could something so normal (boobs = cool) be taken as "disgust"
I have no problems like this, and even if it had been a party for both genders i don't think it would have been a problem.. Boobs are nice, even I like to look at them.
For those who think it may be "demeaning" flip it around in your head, I bet you'd feel quite the powerful man/stud if people were willing to give you large sums of money to take your pants off.
It is demeaning. I'll help you out with flipping it around in your head.
You live in a society where women are the traditional head of the household. They put food on the table, pay the bills, and have the most important jobs in science, government, and industry. As a man, you are not valued based on your contributions to these fields, even if you have a career in one of them. You are judged mostly based upon your appearance. Magazines at the cash register have 'shops of all the hottest men wearing next to nothing. You can easily notice that women, regardless of the context (work/leisure) are more interested in talking to and being around more attractive men.
Most men are looking for love and intimacy as an important part of their sex life. They want to have sex, but with someone they feel safe with, someone they feel loved by, someone they respect. Generally, this more true the older the man gets. Most men as they start to get into their 30s tend to want a family as well. Unfortunately, it is all too common that as they lose their attractiveness, their wife will leave them for someone younger.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
Wery well spoken, nice to finally read the opinion of someone who put some thought into the matter between all the mindless repeating of the "strippers = win" cliché just to look cool. Bravo!
Unlike you?
I was of the impression that "+1" posts aren't tolerated here :S
Why not speak of why you support this poster, or write about why you do not support the other point of view? - Further the discussion?
Women cheat on men, Men cheat on women. Its my opinion that the example you quoted was exaggerated and biased at best, and complete hyperbole at worst. For example the comment "most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them" just seeks to tarnish and disrespect people for self serving point reinforcing reasons. I disagree out of personal experience, As i have had friends who turned to stripping during college, and actually found the job to be a confidence boost, just the thought of someone telling you "hey, you know you look good enough to be paid to take your top off" is quite the ego boost.
At least here, the venues had an air of respect towards the women, putting on a show for the men, not the air of some seedy back alley motel where damaged goods were being dragged out onto a stage by their leashes, as it seems some people like to paint the picture.
In general, men seek partners primarily visually, whereas women seek them based upon factors such as looks, sure, but primarily resource related reasons, or power. That's how we made it to where we are now, that's how we breed, that's how out of the 0.1% of things still alive on this planet, we are still here too. We have inherently different criteria for evaluating the opposite sex, and that isn't a bad thing in my opinion. People say society is evil for "creating this construct", I put it to you that society simply abides by the construct that has always been there, and perhaps always will.
I think that's fine. I don't think something like that should affect any friendship or should incite any awkwardness between them. It is only a big deal if you make a big deal out of it. It is only awkward if you only think it is awkward.
Mind over matter, and the writer of the message said "complicity". I mean are strippers illegal in Aus? If so then maybe his statement has validity but if it's not, what? So what if some are excluded?
From what I can tell it was at the end, which was appropriate so everyone had a whole night to enjoy and lavish. You say some were left out at the end, but they weren't left out, they chose to not participate. They chose that because they wouldn't enjoy that event, so they weren't left out because using that term implies it was something they would have enjoyed if given the opportunity.
Then another possible argument would be, "Why didn't the organizer organize an ending that everyone could enjoy?" That, I don't think is a proper criticism because of two possibilities.
First--that is a very subjective thing and for all you know, the organizer could have thought, "We're all men, we all[or most] enjoy women so let me set an extra treat for the guys." Put that way, the organizer seemed to have stepped the extra yard to provide more for the attendants, which in some circles, admirable.
Second--from what I can tell it seems that the organizer used it as an "optional" after party. Same logic applies, it is something extra, it is not part of the original event it is an optional event. Because it is optional, and an extravagance, it is disproportionate to the reunion party so it would be unfair to the organizer to say they were a coherent event. Same thing with after parties--so and so performer is going to be at after party--I don't like them so I won't attend. There should be no hard feelings because it is an after party. The party was the main objective, there is nothing loss if you chose to not participate it
Finally one last argument is...some people who didn't like the strippers wanted to hang out more with the people who wanted the strippers, which I reply to: you are all adults, if you want to hang out with them, arrange a get together, don't use the extra event as an excuse that balked you from spending "time" with one another.
Disclaimer: I say what I say from what I've read from OP, and there is always the possibility of me perceiving some situations different from what they were initially intended to convey. So I stand by what I say if I have perceived all of what I read correctly.
On December 15 2010 07:56 Roflhaxx wrote: If it's an all male school then I don't see the problem tbh.
So if girls were there, it would be a problem? If so, then what about any guys that are going home to girlfriends or wives? Is there a difference between those two scenarios/ would it change if the girlfriends and wives were present during the strip show?
If there is a difference, then we have an interesting contradiction on what is a problem and what isn't.
But if it truly isn't a problem, then let everyone know. Maybe the turn-out will be even bigger, who knows. If it isn't a problem, don't hide it.
If you read the OP he said that none of them were married, and yes ofcourse it would (gf) who would wanna get a lapdance with your gf watching. And if you dont want a lapdance then just don't get one its easy as that.
Sorry, I had just waded through 12 pages of replies. I had forgotten that they were all unmarried. Ignoring that, my point still stands. Very few would want to get a lap dance with their gf watching or even see a strip show with their gf in tow. Now for some reason, if the gf isn't there, many don't see a problem. Power to them.
But there also exists men that wouldn't want to whether their gf is there are not. Especially because the gf probably wouldn't want it. You can argue that the gf is being unreasonable. But, those men exist, regardless of how you may think the couple needs to loosen up.
For the sake of those people, a simple heads up that 'hey there is also going to be strippers' would suffice. It's as easy as that.
Finally one last argument is...some people who didn't like the strippers wanted to hang out more with the people who wanted the strippers, which I reply to: you are all adults, if you want to hang out with them, arrange a get together, don't use the extra event as an excuse that balked you from spending "time" with one another.
Isn't that kinda the reason for a reunion? The entire reason people are traveling to get to this get together? I don't know about in Australia, but strip clubs aren't the most obscure/ rare place in Canada... compared to I don't know, a get-together every 5-10 years.
On December 15 2010 07:19 aidnai wrote: If you were more correct than me about 'society', why have we not had a female president yet? why is there still to this day a 'glass ceiling' for high-power/exec type jobs? Why is 99% of the porn industry targeted at men, not 50%? Hell, why did we elect Bush twice? Do you think that the majority of the US is like-minded to you?
To get back to the original point: I have a problem with strippers because it reinforces negative attitudes towards women which I observe to be prevalent in our society. There are logically four parts here, you tell me which one you have a problem with. 1) Women stripping encourages men to view them as sex objects 2) Women being viewed purely as sex objects is demeaning 3) I observe that women are in fact commonly regarded purely as sex objects. (examples i gave: Tom Leykis, 4chan) 4) Stripping therefore is contributing negatively.
We don't have a woman president because a black dude mobilized The Internet; it's fairly common knowledge. But if you want to bring up history...
Europe is far more liberal than the United States about strip clubs, nudity in advertising, pornography, even prostitution. Why do they have greater respect for females than us? Hell, Iceland even have a openly lesbian Prime Minister, not to mention the number of female presidents/PMs across the mainland.
Why does Iran allow stoning for adultery against women, despite the brutal government crackdowns on "demeaning entertainment"? How about them Iranian businesswomen and statesmen?
Your "benign" blinders are hurting the situation, not helping it. Allowing people to make choices in their lives empowers them, not harms them. Because when people choose to do things, even things you disagree with, others realize that it's the result of free will (redundant), and thereby renders them more human. Not someone else's instrument.
Women stripping does NOT render or encourage people to think of women as a whole as sex objects. It's when force is involved, one way or another, that this dehumanization occurs. Even if this force is to "protect" them from "evils" that they are "defenseless" against. This is the difference from a sex worker in Amsterdam and a lap dancer in Malaysia.
Prostitute has sex because her pimp has a gun to her head? Sex object, no free will involved.
Prostitute has sex because she's saving money for college? Human, not a plaything.
Almost every other first world country knows this better than America. Europe ensures that free will, and therefore humanization, is involved through regulation and tolerance. America cuts it off at the knees. And destroys free will, marginalizes people, in the process.
On December 15 2010 05:30 ProtossGirl wrote: I like to see boobs.. It's only on forums like this with so much self righteousness from it's posters could something so normal (boobs = cool) be taken as "disgust"
I have no problems like this, and even if it had been a party for both genders i don't think it would have been a problem.. Boobs are nice, even I like to look at them.
For those who think it may be "demeaning" flip it around in your head, I bet you'd feel quite the powerful man/stud if people were willing to give you large sums of money to take your pants off.
It is demeaning. I'll help you out with flipping it around in your head.
You live in a society where women are the traditional head of the household. They put food on the table, pay the bills, and have the most important jobs in science, government, and industry. As a man, you are not valued based on your contributions to these fields, even if you have a career in one of them. You are judged mostly based upon your appearance. Magazines at the cash register have 'shops of all the hottest men wearing next to nothing. You can easily notice that women, regardless of the context (work/leisure) are more interested in talking to and being around more attractive men.
Most men are looking for love and intimacy as an important part of their sex life. They want to have sex, but with someone they feel safe with, someone they feel loved by, someone they respect. Generally, this more true the older the man gets. Most men as they start to get into their 30s tend to want a family as well. Unfortunately, it is all too common that as they lose their attractiveness, their wife will leave them for someone younger.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
Wery well spoken, nice to finally read the opinion of someone who put some thought into the matter between all the mindless repeating of the "strippers = win" cliché just to look cool. Bravo!
Unlike you?
I was of the impression that "+1" posts aren't tolerated here :S
Why not speak of why you support this poster, or write about why you do not support the other point of view? - Further the discussion?
Women cheat on men, Men cheat on women. Its my opinion that the example you quoted was exaggerated and biased at best, and complete hyperbole at worst. For example the comment "most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them" just seeks to tarnish and disrespect people for self serving point reinforcing reasons. I disagree out of personal experience, As i have had friends who turned to stripping during college, and actually found the job to be a confidence boost, just the thought of someone telling you "hey, you know you look good enough to be paid to take your top off" is quite the ego boost.
At least here, the venues had an air of respect towards the women, putting on a show for the men, not the air of some seedy back alley motel where damaged goods were being dragged out onto a stage by their leashes, as it seems some people like to paint the picture.
In general, men seek partners primarily visually, whereas women seek them based upon factors such as looks, sure, but primarily resource related reasons, or power. That's how we made it to where we are now, that's how we breed, that's how out of the 0.1% of things still alive on this planet, we are still here too. We have inherently different criteria for evaluating the opposite sex, and that isn't a bad thing in my opinion. People say society is evil for "creating this construct", I put it to you that society simply abides by the construct that has always been there, and perhaps always will.
(now you try ;D)
Really? So you're basically arguing that Stripping should be accepted by society, when you know that it is, in fact, frowned upon. You know that, even though it's legal, you wouldn't want your husband to go to such places regularly. You know that, even though business men and such frequent these places, it's no where near as innocent as having them go to a pub. Yet, you're acting like it's the most natural job in the world.
Well, it isn't. You were asking if males wouldn't feel awesome if someone paid them to take off their clothes. No, I wouldn't. All it takes for me to get there is a few months of going to the gym. That's all. And a lot of guys do that anyway. Why are they not all stripping if it's so "empowering"? Because it's demeaning. Because any other job will look better in society's eyes.
So, I get what you're saying. On a very basic level, it's not bad. And I agree, I also think prostitution should be legal everywhere. But that doesn't warrant the idea of you being able to shove a prostitute down my neck (hehe), just because I came to our reunion. If I am in a serious relationship, I don't WANT to look at prostitutes because I find it degrading, and because I find it disrespectful towards my better half, and because I wouldn't like it if the situations were reversed. That's all. If it was a bachelor party, sure, I'd have to step out, or at least be reassured that it was to be expected. But at a reunion? Please. It's sleazy. Some of us have outgrown the need to pay to see a boob. Some of us never will. AND IT'S OK. Just don't force me into that situation, as I'm not forcing anyone to stay out of strip clubs.
On December 15 2010 05:30 ProtossGirl wrote: I like to see boobs.. It's only on forums like this with so much self righteousness from it's posters could something so normal (boobs = cool) be taken as "disgust"
I have no problems like this, and even if it had been a party for both genders i don't think it would have been a problem.. Boobs are nice, even I like to look at them.
For those who think it may be "demeaning" flip it around in your head, I bet you'd feel quite the powerful man/stud if people were willing to give you large sums of money to take your pants off.
It is demeaning. I'll help you out with flipping it around in your head.
You live in a society where women are the traditional head of the household. They put food on the table, pay the bills, and have the most important jobs in science, government, and industry. As a man, you are not valued based on your contributions to these fields, even if you have a career in one of them. You are judged mostly based upon your appearance. Magazines at the cash register have 'shops of all the hottest men wearing next to nothing. You can easily notice that women, regardless of the context (work/leisure) are more interested in talking to and being around more attractive men.
Most men are looking for love and intimacy as an important part of their sex life. They want to have sex, but with someone they feel safe with, someone they feel loved by, someone they respect. Generally, this more true the older the man gets. Most men as they start to get into their 30s tend to want a family as well. Unfortunately, it is all too common that as they lose their attractiveness, their wife will leave them for someone younger.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
Wery well spoken, nice to finally read the opinion of someone who put some thought into the matter between all the mindless repeating of the "strippers = win" cliché just to look cool. Bravo!
Unlike you?
I was of the impression that "+1" posts aren't tolerated here :S
Why not speak of why you support this poster, or write about why you do not support the other point of view? - Further the discussion?
Hmm, ok you caught me on the +1 thing, I hoped noone would notice...
So I will try to elaborate, although I should probably go to sleep already. I'm taking a long time putting together thoughts in english, and also I try never to actively discuss on forums, because in so many cases these discussions are not carried out to learn, but rather to try to prove that the own opinion is right, so one would not get into the uncomfortable situation of having to change ones mind, or even worse, question ones habits. I do like to read a lot though and in this special case I just had to applaud to that posting because I really respected the reasoning and the point of view that was presented in comparison to those before, it was an eye opener, short, direct, maybe a bit over the top, but definitely presenting a completely different take on the discussion.
Women cheat on men, Men cheat on women.
Noone would disagree with that, but still today it seems more acceptable for a guy to cheat on a girl than the other way around. Also a guy having lots of sexual contacts to girls is looked up to, he is a "casanova" or "gets lots of pussy". There is however no glamour at all in a girl having lots of sexual contacts, instead she is oftentimes even regarded as a bitch and to some even considered of lesser value than a virgin regarding a future marriage.
Also, some people here brought up the "argument" that there are also male strippers. Somehow they seem to want this to sound like there are "as many" male strippers. And then they somehow conclude that the number of them compared to female strippers would not be a joke. Come on, lets be honest. How much of the adult entertainment industry is geared towards mens pleasure, and how much care is taken about womens pleasure? Why do you think most porn movies present all the repeating boring standard ways of submission from the woman, almost always in exactly the same order? Nothing wrong with submissive bahaviour during sex, but why do you think its ALWAYS the woman who is in the submissive role in the vast majority of the movies? Do you really think that this is just a "natural" desire in our genes? That all the women want to be submissive and all the men want to be dominant all the time? Did you consider that it may perhaps rather have something to do with the desire of people to be accepted and therefore adopting what is common practice and be discouraged from things that are not common practice?
Just for example, imagine you were a 15 year old boy, and the internet and the behaviour of your friends suggested you, that you have to ejaculate into the girls face at the end of sexual intercourse, that this is fun and you are quite manly and while doing so. How are the chances, that you will want to try this out and imitate it? How are the chances that you will think that the girl will expect this from you, because she wants a "real man"? How much will you expect this from the girl, because you want to be a "real man", or because you think this is "the way to do it"? How are the chances that, when asked, you will put forward the opinion that this is the way to go, just to look somewhat cool and experienced?
Really f***ing high I'd say. And how are the chances that any of these situations will occur if you never ever heard about this technique? Not exactly great I suppose...
So is the majority of common practice between men and women in general really exactly like it is because it is "just the way it is" or " the most natural way" ?
Given the massive oppression of women that our civilization has had for a long time during its history, would you not think there is a good chance that the social habits between men and women are full of small examples that in the current development most people will consider "normal", "natural", "the way to go" when in fact they are just demeaning? Even after women finally got the right to vote and are treated equally in front of the law?
Its my opinion that the example you quoted was exaggerated and biased at best, and complete hyperbole at worst. For example the comment "most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them" just seeks to tarnish and disrespect people for self serving point reinforcing reasons.
On second reading I have to agree with you here. Its pretty blunt to suggest most strippers were molested during childhood, but atleast the strippers are in a subject role here, its about their own sexual sentiments, this was not the case in the vast majority of the posts up to then in which strippers were more or less treated like some product, like coke or beer or something.
I disagree out of personal experience, As i have had friends who turned to stripping during college, and actually found the job to be a confidence boost, just the thought of someone telling you "hey, you know you look good enough to be paid to take your top off" is quite the ego boost.
The important thing here is that you have to ask why exactly this is such an ego boost. What constitutes self confidence in a social environment? Because women in todays society in many circumstances are still valued just for their body above anything else, getting this kind of "compliment" points to being of a relatively high social value overall. The more a woman accepts that just her body matters, the more self confidence she will get from such compliments. Compliments are a very common and powerful means of oppression, not only in the history of the oppression of women. Someone who feels honored or flattered is less likely to revolt and question his role in society. Think of the dictatorships which call themself communistic and praise the simple workers above everything else. To have the pressed workers feel somewhat content, they get compliments instead of rights. Getting such a confidence boost makes it mentally easier to accept their situation and think of it as normal.
But there are people out there who will not just accept whatever demeaning social habits are thrown at them and instead get vocal about it, and rightly so. And these people are not wrong just because a large number of the opressed themselves don't care or will tell you "its normal" or "natural". Slaves or underlings in aristocratic societies also thought of their situation as perfectly normal and the natural, god given way how life has to be. It is a very human and useful behaviour to think like that, to somehow arrange with your situation and consider it natural.
In general, men seek partners primarily visually, whereas women seek them based upon factors such as looks, sure, but primarily resource related reasons, or power. That's how we made it to where we are now, that's how we breed, that's how out of the 0.1% of things still alive on this planet, we are still here too. We have inherently different criteria for evaluating the opposite sex, and that isn't a bad thing in my opinion. People say society is evil for "creating this construct",
Yea, a statement like "society is evil" is of course more of a set phrase, and not a statement which makes any real sense if you consider the category of words thrown together there. Its somehow like saying social security has some sick blink stalker micro, it has no real meaning if you look closely. Also I wasn't at all trying to suggest that women and men are the same or choose their partners based on the same criteria. I do think however that these differences are slightly overrated. Humans are not just animals, there is all the cultural stuff involved also, so things are a lot more complex. And when you look at the strange and different habbits that existed in different societies over time, then I'd say this explanation is certainly a lot too thin to be used as a justification for inhuman practice.
I put it to you that society simply abides by the construct that has always been there, and perhaps always will.
Sorry to be frank, but you couldn't be more wrong. This is quite a lazy way to look at the world infact. Maybe things seem like that over the course of a short lifetime during our "relatively" stable time in the western world. But society in general is not a static system, and it has never been.
History tells us quite detailed that all the fundamental values of our civilization, liberty and equality were hard-earned by people who got vocal about oppression. A lot of people even went further and brought great sacrifices, sometimes even their lives to pursue these ideals. We went through a lot of different ages who all had a major impact on our society, and also especially on the social behaviour between men and women. Archievements have been made that have made life a lot more worthwile for billions of people. You dont even have to look into history books to learn about women who cant choose whom they want to get married to and get stoned to death if they betray the "chosen one". Our liberties are not for granted, they have not always been there and they will not further develop or even stay in place by themselves. As always in the history of mankind, people are needed to step it up, get informed and point to uncomfortable truths.
And this is why I respect people who are bold enough to present thoughts which deviate from the standardized accepted opinion, especially if its very inconsiderate. And especially when there were postings before that tried to suggest you had to be gay to be offended, with a slight homophobic undertone, and you can wait outside and wait until you're made fun of later, and as a "real man" you have to enjoy strippers, no matter what (lol...). All nice examples of peer pressure that, while voiced on the basis of personal insecurity, is aimed to make others try to like stripping even if they maybe wouldn't if they could choose without pressure. The more insecure people feel about a certain subject, the more they feel the need to get others to share their opinion. So again a bravo, or in internet terms a Effing +1 to aidnai for not being affected by all the posts before and delivering a more sensible take on the subject.
People might ignore it if they want, but there are clearly misogynist and inhuman tendencies involved in the concept of stripping, regarding the way its carried out and the way people (including the strippers themselves) talk about it. The fact that it gets more acceptance lately does tell more about the current development of our society and not so much about it being "natural" or not, because really anything might be considered "natural" given the right social circumstances.
Yes, I have to applaud perestain for writing such an extensive and well-written explanation of what I simply referred to as "it distorts the power balance between the sexes (in society as well as in the situation), promoting the idea of female sexuality as a commodity". I felt quite bad while posting my last post, on page 13, because I hadn't been able to put things very clearly. I'm glad the point isn't lost
It seems that perestain is talking about the intangible differences, while aidnai, in his argumentation, has mostly focused on more tangible differences such as jobs, positions of power and statistics in terms of gender roles.
Sex is great. Looking good is something everyone can work towards and has no less merit than being smart, since it is defined by genetics to about an equel degree.
Taking your clothes off for a living if you are comfortable with it is awesome.
All this feminist talk has gotten old by 1980 already. Women today are on par with men when they are driven and capable, most of the time they are ahead. Do you live in Kenya or something? 90% of my college professors were female and so is Germany's chancellor if I am not mistaken.
There is nothing demeaning about sex. This is a terribly dated, beaten horse ridden only by puritans and frigid feminazis.
In the age of men wearing make up because "they're worth it, too" and women competing in MMA maybe we should instead be worried about preserving gender identity before we all turn into hermaphrodites...
On December 15 2010 19:19 Kickboxer wrote: Wow, so many prudish remarks.
Sex is great. Looking good is something everyone can work towards and has no less merit than being smart, since it is defined by genetics to about an equel degree.
Taking your clothes off for a living if you are comfortable with it is awesome.
All this feminist talk has gotten old by 1980 already. Women today are on par with men when they are driven and capable, most of the time they are ahead. Do you live in Kenya or something? 90% of my college professors were female and so is Germany's chancellor if I am not mistaken.
There is nothing demeaning about sex. This is a terribly dated, beaten horse ridden only by puritans and frigid feminazis.
In the age of men wearing make up because "they're worth it, too" and women competing in MMA maybe we should instead be worried about preserving gender identity before we all turn into hermaphrodites...
If you haven't already, I suggest you read perestain's comment - otherwise, re-read it. Saves us some time
No one is saying sex is bad or that there is something demeaning about sex as such. There is a lot more going on in the situation of stripping than just the sexual.
You might be addressing the posts of aidnai, and some of the exaggerations or distortions in his posts have already been adressed. However, the point still remains that a lot of concepts and institutions, among these, stripping, reinforce negative behavioural patterns in people. These things go way back, but fortunately civilization has developed to a point where these practices are at a minimum. These practices reflect on society; the women see themselves and the way others see them. It's not strange that in some European societies, where the respect for women is higher, stripping has very little presence, while is still seems very prevalent or even glorified in some American states. Nor is it any coincidence that Berlusconi, one of the most corrupt and apathetic heads in Europe, fills up public service channels with sex symbols, promoting an agenda that negates other values and promotes a carefree nonchalance among the Italian people.
On December 15 2010 02:48 JackMcCoy wrote: Getting fully naked and staying that way in the middle of a social gathering is a fun way to spice up those boring holiday parties, but it takes both physical and emotional dexterity to successfully execute. You can't simply tear your clothes off and be done with it. You have to ease your way into it; you have to use a little something called finesse.
Let's be honest: we've all been there, leaning against the bar in some dank dive, 75 of your close friends leering at and skulking around two beaten-up, manky strippers. Candy, the younger of the two, grinds on a bar stool, her vacant expression no alibi for her wandering thoughts. You wonder what shattered dreams or broken childhood she pines for as she begins to perform fellatio on her own fist. The other stripper, whom you've dubbed, "The Skeksis," writhes around on the buffet table before suggesting body shots. You struggle to hold down the beer you've been nursing as they fit two full shots and a mixer into her belly button. Your eyes glaze over and the dark, Fincher-esque bar, looking like a scene from Eyes Wide Shut, fades from focus as you daydream about being somewhere that doesn't make you feel inexplicably greasy.
But all is not lost, friends, for you still have your trump card, your ace-in-the-hole, the one thing that never fails to make a party interesting (at least for you). Getting naked! Getting naked in front of a crowd of people with subtlety and grace is a logistical nightmare, but thankfully there are some guidelines to keep in mind that will help smooth out the process:
Take your clothes off slowly, maintaining eye contact with whomever you were conversing with. Don't wear clothing that is difficult to remove, or expensive to replace should you have to leave it behind in a hurry.
Try not to have a boner when you get naked. Naked + Flaccid = Casual, Non-Threatening. Naked + Erect = Aggressive, Threatening, Might try to mount me. If you know you can't help yourself, you may want to look into some novelty items to disguise or dress-up your penis, like a tiny Santa hat.
Don't fart. Without clothes to act as a buffer, pure fart can prove quite toxic, not to mention the dangers of some fecal matter making a daring escape. Many first-timers get excited during their initial attempt, and bad things can happen when you mix booze, adrenaline and a cavalier fart policy.
Have fun with it! While the rest of your 75 closest friends watch Candy twirl around a support beam and absent-mindedly pick at her scabs, you'll be experiencing a whole new world of freedom. Enjoy that breeze, buddy. You've earned it.
On December 15 2010 05:30 ProtossGirl wrote: I like to see boobs.. It's only on forums like this with so much self righteousness from it's posters could something so normal (boobs = cool) be taken as "disgust"
I have no problems like this, and even if it had been a party for both genders i don't think it would have been a problem.. Boobs are nice, even I like to look at them.
For those who think it may be "demeaning" flip it around in your head, I bet you'd feel quite the powerful man/stud if people were willing to give you large sums of money to take your pants off.
It is demeaning. I'll help you out with flipping it around in your head.
You live in a society where women are the traditional head of the household. They put food on the table, pay the bills, and have the most important jobs in science, government, and industry. As a man, you are not valued based on your contributions to these fields, even if you have a career in one of them. You are judged mostly based upon your appearance. Magazines at the cash register have 'shops of all the hottest men wearing next to nothing. You can easily notice that women, regardless of the context (work/leisure) are more interested in talking to and being around more attractive men.
Most men are looking for love and intimacy as an important part of their sex life. They want to have sex, but with someone they feel safe with, someone they feel loved by, someone they respect. Generally, this more true the older the man gets. Most men as they start to get into their 30s tend to want a family as well. Unfortunately, it is all too common that as they lose their attractiveness, their wife will leave them for someone younger.
Some men however embrace their role as a sex object. They refuse to be seen without wearing make-up and wearing designer clothing. There are even some men who strip for a living. Many if not most of these have some childhood trauma (mother/aunts molested them). Crowds of women, taking a break from their important jobs, their boring husbands, and dreary hobbies, pay money to see these men take their clothes off and live up to their societally defined role of being sex objects.
I could go on, but are you starting to get it yet?
My point is, I believe stripping is a disgraceful, demeaning, and disgusting effect of the chauvinist society we live in. Feminists have secured women's suffrage, and they have secured many other legal rights for women, but they have a long way to go in combating shitty attitudes like yours.
You conflate trauma survivors with continued victims, and many would take a huge amount of offense to that because it quite simply isn't up to you to tell them what an appropriate reaction to their childhood is.
I highly doubt that Lili St Cyr would consider herself damaged or a victim.
Additionally, male fear that they would lose their attractiveness and have someone leave them isn't borne out by statistics. Canada, at least, would have 75% of their theoretical men deciding to pull the plug on marriages. Additionally, quantitative surveys would show that the theoretical women suffer far higher levels of stress and cope with the ensuing divorce poorer than the women do.
That guy is a definate baller in all senses of the word. I hope you bought him many congratulatory beers.
Edit - People need to lighten up, society has gotten too many rules (what to do, what not to do, what to say etc). Titties and beer are an age old epic partnership, get off your moral high horses and just enjoy them!
Strippers the same location as an official class reunion, even if it's technically the "after-party", is definitely not classy. Having an unofficial after-party, at a different location, with strippers might have been the better choice.
As for the fact that it was a boys' school: strippers still ain't classy. Sorry.
On December 16 2010 01:28 bonifaceviii wrote: Strippers the same location as an official class reunion, even if it's technically the "after-party", is definitely not classy. Having an unofficial after-party, at a different location, with strippers might have been the better choice.
As for the fact that it was a boys' school: strippers still ain't classy. Sorry.
It was actually at a different location; the function room at a rugby oval. It should be noted that there had been 5 or so hours at the reunion for everyone to chat in a relaxed setting, so noone should have felt alienated or angry if they had chosen to leave the after party rather than watch the strippers. It should also be noted that one of our mates was completely naked long before the strippers arrived, if that gives you any idea of the sort of atmosphere. I feel I should mention that most of the attendees were 22-23 years old, many still studying at tertiary institutions, ie: still barely more than boys, who all like to get shitfaced and have a good time.
Sidenote: I myself do not like watching strippers, and just took it as a bit of a laugh.
On December 15 2010 23:52 Krypt89 wrote: That guy is a definate baller in all senses of the word. I hope you bought him many congratulatory beers.
Edit - People need to lighten up, society has gotten too many rules (what to do, what not to do, what to say etc). Titties and beer are an age old epic partnership, get off your moral high horses and just enjoy them!
titties and beer are a great thing
however, could have chosen a different time for it i suppose
On December 16 2010 01:28 bonifaceviii wrote: Strippers the same location as an official class reunion, even if it's technically the "after-party", is definitely not classy. Having an unofficial after-party, at a different location, with strippers might have been the better choice.
As for the fact that it was a boys' school: strippers still ain't classy. Sorry.
It was actually at a different location; the function room at a rugby oval. It should be noted that there had been 5 or so hours at the reunion for everyone to chat in a relaxed setting, so noone should have felt alienated or angry if they had chosen to leave the after party rather than watch the strippers. It should also be noted that one of our mates was completely naked long before the strippers arrived, if that gives you any idea of the sort of atmosphere. I feel I should mention that most of the attendees were 22-23 years old, many still studying at tertiary institutions, ie: still barely more than boys, who all like to get shitfaced and have a good time.
Sidenote: I myself do not like watching strippers, and just took it as a bit of a laugh.
if this is the situation then sure why not have strippers, strippers are awesome, the only thing worse than an awkward class reunion with naked classmates you barely know is ... nothing. go with the strippers, the complainer can leave if he wants, and look at it this way: who would you rather have at the party, a classmate you barely remember or strippers.
EPT
). There had already been opportunities to catch up and chit chat for hours, and the after-party itself was coming to an end. Immediately following the strip show everybody left and went out clubbing. It's not like the strip show was sprung on a sober audience at 8pm, it was at the very end of the reunion. Those who decided to leave only missed the strip show and then everybody leaving. 
