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On December 13 2010 19:32 PaPoolee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 19:28 BeWat3r wrote:On December 13 2010 19:15 daz wrote:On December 13 2010 18:57 BeWat3r wrote:
I think T.O.P has some good points on his side.
One of the biggest problems with those extremists is, they hide themself under the sheet of the muslims. They may say, they belong to this certain group, but the things they do, do not have anything in common with the Qran.
I think you need to read the Quran I did :-) Ofc the old parts are as retared as the old parts of the bible but there is nothing like : Hey lets kill all infidels. The problem is, the people who commit those sucizide attacks got blinded by some false prophets. They tell them what to do not the Quran. Pretty simple because most of those people can not read, so they do follow everything they have been told Where are you getting the information your stating here? and where exactly have you read the Qur'an? What exactly do you mean by "the old parts are as retared as the old parts of the bible but there is nothing like : Hey lets kill all infidels."? What old parts are you talking about? do they release a new version of the Qur'an and the Bible every couple of months? are you stupid?.
I think he's talking about religious leaders that dont stick to the Qur'an itself but to some newer hadith, that dont need to have any connection to the qur'an even though they try to make that connection.
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On December 13 2010 19:39 Osmoses wrote:
Its really easy to say "of course we should stand up for ourselves, don't give in to fear" but it gets alot harder when you yourself am in the crossfire. But of course we should stand up for ourselves.
Sweden is not and has not been in the crosshairs compared to other countries.
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I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech.
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On December 13 2010 19:41 Blobskillz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 19:32 PaPoolee wrote:On December 13 2010 19:28 BeWat3r wrote:On December 13 2010 19:15 daz wrote:On December 13 2010 18:57 BeWat3r wrote:
I think T.O.P has some good points on his side.
One of the biggest problems with those extremists is, they hide themself under the sheet of the muslims. They may say, they belong to this certain group, but the things they do, do not have anything in common with the Qran.
I think you need to read the Quran I did :-) Ofc the old parts are as retared as the old parts of the bible but there is nothing like : Hey lets kill all infidels. The problem is, the people who commit those sucizide attacks got blinded by some false prophets. They tell them what to do not the Quran. Pretty simple because most of those people can not read, so they do follow everything they have been told Where are you getting the information your stating here? and where exactly have you read the Qur'an? What exactly do you mean by "the old parts are as retared as the old parts of the bible but there is nothing like : Hey lets kill all infidels."? What old parts are you talking about? do they release a new version of the Qur'an and the Bible every couple of months? are you stupid?. I think he's talking about religious leaders that dont stick to the Qur'an itself but to some newer hadith, that dont need to have any connection to the qur'an even though they try to make that connection.
Well that's false information and it is irrelevant and people who believe false information are stupid.
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I don't defend any religion, I mock them all equally. Your beliefs are your beliefs, if i want to draw a picture of Muhammed or say that Jesus was obviously gay (not mocking him for being gay, mocking christians for their views on gay people when their leader was prolly one of the "abominations") and I think Jews are stupid for forcing babies to have part of their manhood removed, then I will. Your religion does not have any hold over me.
Simple fact is that if Christianity and Islam didn't exist, we would have just found other reasons to kill each other because unfortunately some people like guns and bombs, some of those people don't like people whom look different, and some of those people end up running the countries we live in. So long as that is true, there will be war and terrorists.
People there days often forget that terrorists exist who have no ties to religion at all, but instead political ideals. Most of the non religious terrorists are a little more civilized yes, the IRA for instance would always phone the police and warn them about the bombs, giving people a chance to not get hurt. It didn't make what they did any less wrong.
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On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech.
I don't know what a "slipper" is but whatever it is doesn't change the point: Who gets to decide what a "real belief" is -- i.e., since I know that belief in Allah is irrational, does that mean that I can criticize you since your belief isn't a "real" one?
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On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid .
Wait what ?
User was warned for this post
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On December 13 2010 19:44 PaPoolee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 19:41 Blobskillz wrote:On December 13 2010 19:32 PaPoolee wrote:On December 13 2010 19:28 BeWat3r wrote:On December 13 2010 19:15 daz wrote:On December 13 2010 18:57 BeWat3r wrote:
I think T.O.P has some good points on his side.
One of the biggest problems with those extremists is, they hide themself under the sheet of the muslims. They may say, they belong to this certain group, but the things they do, do not have anything in common with the Qran.
I think you need to read the Quran I did :-) Ofc the old parts are as retared as the old parts of the bible but there is nothing like : Hey lets kill all infidels. The problem is, the people who commit those sucizide attacks got blinded by some false prophets. They tell them what to do not the Quran. Pretty simple because most of those people can not read, so they do follow everything they have been told Where are you getting the information your stating here? and where exactly have you read the Qur'an? What exactly do you mean by "the old parts are as retared as the old parts of the bible but there is nothing like : Hey lets kill all infidels."? What old parts are you talking about? do they release a new version of the Qur'an and the Bible every couple of months? are you stupid?. I think he's talking about religious leaders that dont stick to the Qur'an itself but to some newer hadith, that dont need to have any connection to the qur'an even though they try to make that connection. Well that's false information and it is irrelevant and people who believe false information are stupid.
sure, but when you are some poor dude from afghanistan and can maybe barely read the arabic alphabet and then your imam tells you how Islam works would you really question that? I doubt it. Though I think that extremist groups like Taliban etc just use religion as a front but in the end they are all jsut interested in power and money. And we all know what lovely plant is growing really good in Afghanistan, so it's not surprising that the Taliban defend it with all they have.
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On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech.
What you think is insulting is arbitrary and non-quantifiable. If people have the freedom of speech, then that includes all speech, no matter who it insults. Hell, I could argue that the only speech of any REAL import is the speech that's almost GUARANTEED to insult someone.
It offended the fuck out of the Catholic Church when Galileo told them they were wrong. But he needed to say it. It offended the Emperor when he was told he wasn't wearing any clothes, but SOMEONE had to say it.
You get the idea.
Clearly you can't shout "FIRE" in a movie theater, or "BOMB" in an airport, but that's not really about offending people anymore, that's about directly influencing someone's day and is really another topic all together.
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On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech.
Ok THAT is just pretty wrong. Ok let me paint a picture for you:
There are people that do believe that is ok to rape wimen and children because their god or what ever told them so. And we shouldnt mock them because they really believe crap like that? Are you kidding me? With your "argument" you are supporting every single radical and aggressive form of religion in this freaking world.
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On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech.
Go fuck yourself, i believe in the great Chocolate Bunny and there's no way you're saying me that belief is stupid.
User was warned for this post
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On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech.
What defines real beliefs?
People mock Scientology because they believe aliens came and started the human race, or something to that effect. Obviously to most of us, even those like me who are sure there must be aliens out there somewhere, this is ridiculous. People openly mock Scientology and no one cares.
The difference between the above and christianity is that Christ "lived" 2000 years ago. Just because a belief has been around for 2000 years doesn't make it any less stupid and it doesn't mean we can't question it or insult it. Christianity has been responsible for millions of deaths over the last 2000 years during crusades, inqisitions, witch hunts and a plethora of other atrocities and is no better than islam in this regard. The only difference is that the extremeists aren't quite so blood thirsty.
Galileo was persecuted for questioning the theory that bodies of different weights fell at different rates, the theory he was contradicting was Aristotle's and the theory was 2000 years old. At the time that took some balls, but it is also why people can now question long held beliefs and theories without fear of persecution.
I suppose what im saying is, you can believe in god. I can believe you are a moron and I have the right to express that belief
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On December 13 2010 19:50 BeWat3r wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech. Ok THAT is just pretty wrong. Ok let me paint a picture for you: There are people that do believe that is ok to rape wimen and children because their god or what ever told them so. And we shouldnt mock them because they really believe crap like that? Are you kidding me? With your "argument" you are supporting every single radical and aggressive form of religion in this freaking world.
you are wrong. You mix up actual stuff that would get you into prison and stuff that's purely believe and does not hurt anyone.
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On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech.
Have you ever asked your question why you believe? If you were born in say, the southern states of America then you would probably say the exact same thing and be a christian instead of a muslim.
Muslims definitely get a bad rep because of 9/11, and the general conservativeness of muslim countries as opposed to european ones. One of my friends is a muslim and he's a great guy and I don't wish him anything ill.
But why are you a muslim? Because the Qur'an? How do you know it to be true, and why is it more true than the Bible? Really, the Bible and the Qur'an are ancient texts and are true because, wait for it... They say they are.
Today our understanding of the world is so much better than just a 1000 years ago, there are so many things we don't know but that doesn't mean that gods don't exist, it just makes believing in them that much more foolish. You might say, well how was the universe created? Well the answer is that we don't know, and neither do you. There is a fundamental difference in how religion and science works, science admits it's faults and relies upon empirical evidence and testing. Religion on the other hand, is right because it has been the authority for thousands of years because people just didn't know any better.
Most people adhere to one religion, what makes your religion more right than others?
At the heart lies a logical problem. We know in general terms how life came to be through billions of years but not how the universe was created. When you say God did it, you're just making it a bigger problem. The complexity of an omniscient and omnipotent God is highly improbable and requires some immense proof. Of course people will say it is faith, but it is a bad excuse when thousands of people have suffered because of the Christian Crusades, clinic bombings, beheadings and so on.
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hmmm.. christians belive in an invisible man in the sky that has a special list of 10 things he never wants you to do.. and if you do any of these things you will be sent to hell to burn in everlasting torment... but he loves you
-loosly taken from george carlin-
and i deem it fairly likely that most people in this forum love eating the holy animal of india
religion of all sorts have so much bullshit and double standards in them that its easy to see that its man made not god sent...
and there are plenty of people that believe.. and can handle that others mock it.. they can even laugh of it themselves...
whatever oppinion you might have.. someone.. somewhere.. will mock it, so deal with it 
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On December 13 2010 19:50 Gheizen64 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech. Go fuck yourself, i believe in the great Chocolate Bunny and there's no way you're saying me that belief is stupid.
Haha, but seriously.
People are free to believe in whatever they want, but when your belief involves beating your wife and declaring "holy war" on people cause they don't share your opinions then it's not a acceptable way of life. C'mon, theres nothing right in killing people for drawing a dog with a "prophets" head on it.
Muslims(radical ones) needs to grow a pair and not get pissed at such small things.
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On December 13 2010 19:51 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech. What defines real beliefs? People mock Scientology because they believe aliens came and started the human race, or something to that effect. Obviously to most of us, even those like me who are sure there must be aliens out there somewhere, this is ridiculous. People openly mock Scientology and no one cares.
Actually people mock Scientology because they engage in murder, thievery, and psychological torture, all so they can make a pretty penny, but whatever.
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On December 13 2010 19:52 Blobskillz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 19:50 BeWat3r wrote:On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech. Ok THAT is just pretty wrong. Ok let me paint a picture for you: There are people that do believe that is ok to rape wimen and children because their god or what ever told them so. And we shouldnt mock them because they really believe crap like that? Are you kidding me? With your "argument" you are supporting every single radical and aggressive form of religion in this freaking world. you are wrong. You mix up actual stuff that would get you into prison and stuff that's purely believe and does not hurt anyone.
Ok so the muslims do believe ( the believe it is not written down) that wimen are less worth then man and that they own them. Same for some christians. They believe, that if a women has sex before marriage she gets some kind of polluted and should go to hell. In some countrys wimen get killed for that. They threaten their children with storys of hell and doom and that their penis will rott if the mastrubate.
I mixed up some things of our god loving friends with some of our Allah loving friends. I know that but I think it shows, how freaking stupid your argument is.
And the religion im talking about, does exist in a nice little land called amerika. They call themselves the "Children of the sun"
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On December 13 2010 19:56 Hadron. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 19:42 PaPoolee wrote:
I know that freedom of speech is important, but it's still wrong to insult what people believe in, I mean if you believe in a slipper, then yes you deserve criticism because that's just plain stupid and you just want people to criticize you, but people with real beliefs shouldn't be insulted and you would be a fucking ignorant dick head if you thought it was okay to insult people for no reason and get away with it just because of your right of freedom of speech. Have you ever asked your question why you believe? If you were born in say, the southern states of America then you would probably say the exact same thing and be a christian instead of a muslim. Muslims definitely get a bad rep because of 9/11, and the general conservativeness of muslim countries as opposed to european ones. One of my friends is a muslim and he's a great guy and I don't wish him anything ill. But why are you a muslim? Because the Qur'an? How do you know it to be true, and why is it more true than the Bible? Really, the Bible and the Qur'an are ancient texts and are true because, wait for it... They say they are. Today our understanding of the world is so much better than just a 1000 years ago, there are so many things we don't know but that doesn't mean that gods don't exist, it just makes believing in them that much more foolish. You might say, well how was the universe created? Well the answer is that we don't know, and neither do you. There is a fundamental difference in how religion and science works, science admits it's faults and relies upon empirical evidence and testing. Religion on the other hand, is right because it has been the authority for thousands of years because people just didn't know any better. Most people adhere to one religion, what makes your religion more right than others? At the heart lies a logical problem. We know in general terms how life came to be through billions of years but not how the universe was created. When you say God did it, you're just making it a bigger problem. The complexity of an omniscient and omnipotent God is highly improbable and requires some immense proof. Of course people will say it is faith, but it is a bad excuse when thousands of people have suffered because of the Christian Crusades, clinic bombings, beheadings and so on.
The concept of an omniscient, omnipotent, and omni-benevolent God is not EMPIRICALLY in keeping with the universe (what with the whole concept of God transcending empirical data and all...) but it is not illogical in anyway.
Apply determinism to God and make him a mechanist God, stop presupposing that freewill isn't the greatest potential good, and omnipotent is the only one you're really left with a question mark still hanging over it's head.
And really, REALLY, do you want to start bandying about probability when the spontaneous generation of the universe is the current scientific "explanation"?
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