I just don't understand why people have to be so mean and disrespectful to noobs in the Dota genre. I remember playing HoN on "noobs only" games, and I know that if I were to forget ONE missing call, that I would be suddenly diagnosed to have every mental disability possible by at least one of my teammates. Then I'm deemed unworthy because I am a noob in game that is labeled "noobs only."
Now why the hell would I want to win a game where my teammates are assholes to me? I also get angry at my teammates if they are causing us to lose, but instead of being an asshole to them, I find to have much better results if I calmly tell the player that they need to be doing something different.
I guess I'm not an emotional person, because I just don't understand how people fail so badly at controlling their anger. The anonymity of the internet can really turn some people into terrible creatures.
Since SC2 is more of 1v1 game I think the hate towards noobs is pretty tame, but I think a few people are a little elitist. They think that since they are in the same "league" as the pros that they are god's gift to SC2 and it is their duty to prove people wrong by shoving "I'm Diamond" in their face. When in reality they got to Diamond doing the same strat over and over. However, I think the majority of people are very helpful. I've never seen so many skilled players willing to help strangers over the internet, by taking the time to look at replays, or even practicing certain builds with newer players.
It's the know it alls. I hate some idiot shitty platinum player start ranting about how abusive my Terran is in TvZ. I told him I'm just a vastly superior player and he played quite poor. He said there's NOTHING he could have done better. I told him I could have easily handled the situation much better and even beat my own Terran (it was my offrace back then). After he kept ranting, I eventually just said, "look, you're not good at all, you're just an overall poor player," to which he came with this huge lecture on how Plat is the second highest division and that means he's better (which technically is true) than the average player (although he made it sounds like he was heaps and mounds). In the end, it just annoyed me to know end.
On December 01 2010 06:50 Triss_Teh wrote: On my very first game on 4v4 everyone on my team called me a noob for doing nothing but taking three hatcheries, spitting larvae, and spreading creep everywhere, including my allies base. They IMed me after the match telling me to quit i was such a noob.
To be fair, unless they are Zerg the creep will make it impossible for them to build structures within their base. If that happened, a flaming to a lesser extent may be warranted.
And now to contribute:
I began playing SCBW when I was like 8 and only used cheat codes. Eventually in my first year a Korean friend (whom I was to share a house in the coming years) got me into the Proscene and onto ICCUP in 2008. I got to a peak of D+ Terran on ICCUP, nothing to be proud of but it is what it is. Mastering basic fundamentals (read: mechanics) took conscientious effort to not only look away from microing units but to have a mental checklist of things I should be doing every 10-15 sec (check supply, build units, glance at minimap, build expo/production facilities, scout. Rinse and Repeat.) I acknowledged the great resource available to me in TL.net and tried not to be overwhelmed by the depth of gameplay and advice offered to me through not only amazing threads, guides and liquidpedia but also in the accumulated knowledge of the vets on this site whose game knowledge far surpassed anything I believed this RTS was capable of. I read the Commandments, I made sure if I made threads I put some degree of effort into them so that they would stay open and a discussion could take place.
It feels like with SC2's release, every player who has not played BW believes that the new game means new gameplay and mechanics to be figured out. However, the solid fundamentals that good mechanics provides directly applies to SC2 in usefulness.
The arrogance of the SC2 gamers. Wow. Some humble pie needs to be consumed when entering this enormously competitive scene of Starcraft. This arrogance often mixes heavily with ignorance. Terribad players often seem extremely unwilling to listen to any or all criticism when they post a [H] or [D] thread. Insisting on doing it your own way without considering the advice of those here on TL.net to help is both foolish and burning bridges towards improvement. Realizing you are not good is the first step to getting better.
Noobs also need to learn how to use the search bar in the top right, incredible how many people create threads asking simple questions that could have been answered with search. Then we get threads 5 replies long and the just clutter up the left side of TL when I browse.
Have you read the SC2 strategy section? 0_o People don't hate on new players simply because they're new, they hate on new players who scream imbalance because they lose to a strategy and think they're better than everybody else. If you are nice, productive, and willing to learn, then no one is gonna be an ass hole to you.
Some people are just jerks. However, on Liquid, I'd say that people are fairly polite to noobs. If they're not so polite, its usually because they care about the quality of posts on the forum. They don't want Liquid to degenerate into another bnet forum.
If new people read the forum rules, search for previous posts, and put though and effort (and replays) into their posts, they get treated very well. This isn't asking for too much. These are simple courtesies that help make the Liquid forums better.
On December 01 2010 07:49 FabledIntegral wrote: It's the know it alls. I hate some idiot shitty platinum player start ranting about how abusive my Terran is in TvZ. I told him I'm just a vastly superior player and he played quite poor. He said there's NOTHING he could have done better. I told him I could have easily handled the situation much better and even beat my own Terran (it was my offrace back then). After he kept ranting, I eventually just said, "look, you're not good at all, you're just an overall poor player," to which he came with this huge lecture on how Plat is the second highest division and that means he's better (which technically is true) than the average player (although he made it sounds like he was heaps and mounds). In the end, it just annoyed me to know end.
I'm sure telling him you were vastly superior annoyed him as well and probably was too pissed off to listen to you. But I do know what you mean about players who just complain and won't take advice. I played a terran who gg'd after a quick bio push failed, and then started whining about how overpowered zerg is. He wasn't that far behind, so I responded by telling him I was really surprised he gg'd so soon and that he should stay in the game for the sake of learning...and possibly winning - he took my advice for the moment and kept playing. But then he decisively lost several minutes later, because his macro was weaker than mine - probably because he gets pissed off and quits too early very often. There was even a point he could have killed me, but didn't realize it and didn't attack. He said "fuck you tell me why I should have wasted my time with this game?" and then left before I could even respond. He didn't want advice, he wanted to be angry and feel like he was playing at a disadvantage.
On December 01 2010 07:49 FabledIntegral wrote: It's the know it alls. I hate some idiot shitty platinum player start ranting about how abusive my Terran is in TvZ. I told him I'm just a vastly superior player and he played quite poor. He said there's NOTHING he could have done better. I told him I could have easily handled the situation much better and even beat my own Terran (it was my offrace back then). After he kept ranting, I eventually just said, "look, you're not good at all, you're just an overall poor player," to which he came with this huge lecture on how Plat is the second highest division and that means he's better (which technically is true) than the average player (although he made it sounds like he was heaps and mounds). In the end, it just annoyed me to know end.
I'm sure telling him you were vastly superior annoyed him as well and probably was too pissed off to listen to you. But I do know what you mean about players who just complain and won't take advice. I played a terran who gg'd after a quick bio push failed, and then started whining about how overpowered zerg is. He wasn't that far behind, so I responded by telling him I was really surprised he gg'd so soon and that he should stay in the game for the sake of learning...and possibly winning - he took my advice for the moment and kept playing. But then he decisively lost several minutes later, because his macro was weaker than mine - probably because he gets pissed off and quits too early very often. There was even a point he could have killed me, but didn't realize it and didn't attack. He said "fuck you tell me why I should have wasted my time with this game?" and then left before I could even respond. He didn't want advice, he wanted to be angry and feel like he was playing at a disadvantage.
Well he was ranting quite a bit before I said that.
On December 01 2010 07:49 FabledIntegral wrote: It's the know it alls. I hate some idiot shitty platinum player start ranting about how abusive my Terran is in TvZ. I told him I'm just a vastly superior player and he played quite poor. He said there's NOTHING he could have done better. I told him I could have easily handled the situation much better and even beat my own Terran (it was my offrace back then). After he kept ranting, I eventually just said, "look, you're not good at all, you're just an overall poor player," to which he came with this huge lecture on how Plat is the second highest division and that means he's better (which technically is true) than the average player (although he made it sounds like he was heaps and mounds). In the end, it just annoyed me to know end.
I'm sure telling him you were vastly superior annoyed him as well and probably was too pissed off to listen to you. But I do know what you mean about players who just complain and won't take advice. I played a terran who gg'd after a quick bio push failed, and then started whining about how overpowered zerg is. He wasn't that far behind, so I responded by telling him I was really surprised he gg'd so soon and that he should stay in the game for the sake of learning...and possibly winning - he took my advice for the moment and kept playing. But then he decisively lost several minutes later, because his macro was weaker than mine - probably because he gets pissed off and quits too early very often. There was even a point he could have killed me, but didn't realize it and didn't attack. He said "fuck you tell me why I should have wasted my time with this game?" and then left before I could even respond. He didn't want advice, he wanted to be angry and feel like he was playing at a disadvantage.
Well he was ranting quite a bit before I said that.
Oh yeah I believe it. I've been called so many insults for winning, it is foolish to insult someone who is better than you. The funniest is when the person you just defeated calls you a noob.
Those people who resent newbie players tend to forget that not everyone buys a game (i.e. SC2) to play it several hours a day, all days of the week. Some of them work hard others have families to take care They just want to have some fun and spend some good time.That's how I think things work. Not everybody needs to play at diamond level.
Yes, i'm a noob at SC2 and proud of it because it means I'm better at other things than those people who bash at noobs.
Most help threads have the player either blaming something else, or they will have bad mechanics. Bad mechanics are so easy to improve without help from other players, but some people are still oblivious to the fact that they aren't macro beasts just because they keep their minerals down since their cc/nexus wasn't building workers for 2/3 of the time.
Then people blaming other stuff are usually stubborn and don't know that being high diamond isn't that great. I'm not saying it's horrible, but it's not great. They also have a tendency because of their belief that they're good and they will not accept anything anybody says and their counterargument will be some stupid kind of theorycraft that doesn't even mean sense and the thread turns into a balance discussion.
Funny thing is, these people seem to be the type of people that will complain about TL being "elitist", when it seems to me it's actually these people thinking that their high diamond rank puts them on the same level as the pros and when they start to act like a pro but still say wrong things/troll, they're warned/banned, which they feel like they don't deserve.
Most people that do recognize their own fault won't even need other people to comment on their replay, so therefore they won't even post, and they can continue while improving by themselves.
On December 01 2010 04:15 Nutro wrote: Noob spotted.
Lol, jerk.
I may have the skills of a noob, but I have the heart of a better noob! =D
This is a pretty good view. I mean I don't think you're a noob because I am one but the treat-me-like-I'm-pro view is the problem. Admitting you're a scrub and that you're willing to learn is the first step.
I didnt read all 6 pages. but WoW wasnt like that in vanilla. everyone was helpful and the community wasnt the same. this is probably because the game was hard. and you saw the same faces everyday. Making your annonimity less of an thing. u get a bad rap in wow back in the day. you were an outcast lol.
as far as SC2 goes.... most of the people you play you will never ever see again so they are just asses to begin with... then if they talk shit just leave. you have nothing to prove to them. I normally tell most noobs to just watch day9. and leave. helping them, but never doing anything lol.
In starcraft, there's nothing wrong with noobs. In fps games and dota, there is. When you have a teammate that drags you down, it's quite frustrating. Your overall game experience is being degraded because of their existence. That's why people hate noobs so much.
Maybe it's something like this: a new player joins a community. Suppose he's either friendly or aggressive. If he's aggressive he likely won't be present too long and others will remember him as someone new. Friendly players would instead grow to be regular community members. So this would naturally lead to new people being distrusted and aquiring a bad name.
EPT
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