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On November 24 2010 23:38 Rflcrx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 22:56 thoradycus wrote:On November 24 2010 22:42 Rflcrx wrote:On November 24 2010 20:45 Hautamaki wrote:
Mao, the real architect of the Korean War (he instigated it in order to pressure Stalin to give him ICBMs), actually murdered over 70 million Chinese in peacetime during his 27 year reign. It's a figure that makes Hitler's estimated 11 million death-camp casualties look like child's play =[ I can think of the hundret flowers movement were mao orderd the death of a couple of thousand intellectuals, aside from that..who did he directly murder/order murder? Because you have 69 million more people murdered.. Cultural revolution,persecution in general,and the numerous famines etc caused by the Great Leap Foward. Murder wasn't the primary damage in the cultural revolution, wasn't even ordered by mao in any way, persecution in general..uh uhm yeah..numerous famines? I can only think of the big on due to the great leap, but that were ~20 million, not ordered by mao (was a sideproduct out of stupidity, I doubt anybody planned the famine). Still missing 68 million
=\ if you really don't believe us, why don't you try doing some research?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao
"Conversely, Mao's social-political programs, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, are blamed for costing millions of lives, causing severe famine and damage to the culture, society and economy of China. Mao's policies and political purges from 1949 to 1976 are widely believed to have caused the deaths of between 40 to 70 million people"
http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left/china/deaths1.html
"People were so desperate in one Fengyang County commune during the monstrous famine, which was caused by Mao Zedong’s 1958-60 industrialization drive called the Great Leap Forward, that on 63 occasions they ate others who had died – or resorted to killing, carving up and eating their own children.
“In Damiao commune, Chen Zhangying and her husband Zhao Xizhen killed and boiled their 8-year-old son Xiao Qing and ate him,” said a startling report that has recently become available in the West. “In Wudian commune, Wang Lanying not only picked up dead people to eat, but also sold 2 jin [2.2 pounds] from their bodies as pork.”"
http://www.amazon.com/Mao-Story-Jung-Chang/dp/0679422714
"Q: What is the one thing you hope readers get from your book?
A: Mao was responsible for the deaths of well over 70 million Chinese in peacetime, and he was bent on dominating the world. As China is today emerging as an economic and military power, the world can never regard it as a benign force unless Beijing rejects Mao and all his legacies. We hope our book will help push China in this direction by telling the truth about Mao."
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OMG...i hope i dont get recalled, no more starcraft for me...
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On November 25 2010 00:04 clementdudu wrote:
a 1000 words to say:i dont know what communism is.
Next time just post that,it'll be faster for you and less annoying for those who know what it is.
I'm not getting into a useless and pedantic definitions game. You are welcome to your own definition of the word if you like but when communicating with other human beings it's generally the norm to use the actual commonly accepted definitions of words, not the definition you yourself might prefer. I don't know if your referring to the original French revolution Commune of Paris or the fantasy communism of Marx or the hippy/anarchist 'communism' of recent times or what, but I'm referring to the 20th century phenomenon that began with the bolshevik revolution in Russia, became ComIntern, and included the USSR/Warsaw pact, China, North Korea, North Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.
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The current stances:
North Korea:
Pyongyang made the accusation through its state media, referring to a military drill that Seoul holds every year.
"The puppet group dared make an uproar over 'a provocation' from someone and cry out for 'punishment' like a thief crying 'Stop the thief!'" the North's KCNA news agency said.
"The Lee Myung-bak group's treacherous and anti-reunification acts are intolerable as it vitiated the atmosphere for improving the inter-Korean relations overnight and drove the situation to the brink of war, challenging the desire of all the Koreans," KCNA said.
South Korea:
"We have come to the judgment that what happened on Yeonpyeong Island was a definite military provocation against the Republic of Korea," the Lee administration said.
"The fact that they have indiscriminately fired upon a defenseless civilian zone was a brutally inhumane action, an illegal and intentional action against the U.N. constitution and the armistice between the North and South Korea."
United States:
The United States said Wednesday that it would hold military drills with South Korea in the Yellow Sea starting on Sunday.
"This exercise is defensive in nature. While planned well before yesterday's unprovoked artillery attack, it demonstrates the strength of the ROK-U.S. alliance and our commitment to regional stability through deterrence," U.S. Forces Korea said.
"The USS George Washington carrier strike group will join Republic of Korea naval forces in the waters west of the Korean peninsula from Nov. 28 to Dec. 1 to conduct the next exercise in the series announced at the 2+2 meetings in July."
Japan:
On Wednesday, Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan said, "North Korea's artillery attack on South Korea was an attack on an area where ordinary citizens live. This is an unforgivable act of barbarism. We have been strongly condemning North Korea for this action and will continue to do so."
"This attack created extreme anxiety not only in South Korea, but also in the East Asia region, including Japan. We must tackle this issue with close coordination with South Korea, as well as the United States. At the same time, we urge China, which holds a strong influence over North Korea, to make an effort to suppress such action by North Korea."
China:
China, which is North Korea's key ally, has responded obliquely to Tuesday's shelling.
"We have taken note of relevant reports and express our concern. Relevant facts need to be verified and we hope both parties make more contributions to the stability of the peninsula," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei said.
Source: CNN
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China's lack of words makes me uneasy.
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On November 25 2010 00:26 Hautamaki wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 00:04 clementdudu wrote:
a 1000 words to say:i dont know what communism is.
Next time just post that,it'll be faster for you and less annoying for those who know what it is. I'm not getting into a useless and pedantic definitions game. You are welcome to your own definition of the word if you like but when communicating with other human beings it's generally the norm to use the actual commonly accepted definitions of words, not the definition you yourself might prefer. I don't know if your referring to the original French revolution Commune of Paris or the fantasy communism of Marx or the hippy/anarchist 'communism' of recent times or what, but I'm referring to the 20th century phenomenon that began with the bolshevik revolution in Russia, became ComIntern, and included the USSR/Warsaw pact, China, North Korea, North Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.
it's not the definition i prefer.....it is the definition.
Anyway this has nothing to do with Nkorea so ill stop here 
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We'll see what happens when the US and SK hold their joint exercises in the Yellow sea. Let's hope not much.
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On November 25 2010 00:26 Hautamaki wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 00:04 clementdudu wrote:
a 1000 words to say:i dont know what communism is.
Next time just post that,it'll be faster for you and less annoying for those who know what it is. I'm not getting into a useless and pedantic definitions game. You are welcome to your own definition of the word if you like but when communicating with other human beings it's generally the norm to use the actual commonly accepted definitions of words, not the definition you yourself might prefer. I don't know if your referring to the original French revolution Commune of Paris or the fantasy communism of Marx or the hippy/anarchist 'communism' of recent times or what, but I'm referring to the 20th century phenomenon that began with the bolshevik revolution in Russia, became ComIntern, and included the USSR/Warsaw pact, China, North Korea, North Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.
Just leave it there
I see no point in trying to explain to people any more. Obviously noone has bothered to read my 94th page post about why communism is flawed.
All I can say to them is : Hey, if you don't want to read it with an open mind, then don't bother read it at all.
I stayed initially away from this topic and as I see it now, I should've stayed out of it. Too bad people still believe in flawed theories and don't question them. Too bad people want to be "all equal", when we simply can't be. Segregation is good. We're all different, we're all individuals. Individuals can not survive and live inside a communist state. What's the point of being a brain surgeon if you get payed the same amount of money as a bartender ? What's the point in treating a 6 years old like an adult ? What's the point of existing if we're all equal ?
To hell with all the commie-lovers !
P.S. : Before you jump on the segregation band-wagon and pin me down as racist, calm down. I mean segregation as just all being different from each other and that this exactly separates us. No racial, sexist, political, ethnic or religious harm was meant.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
It is clear that this time SK and USA /UN can't let NK get away with it so easily. Being generally retarded, aggressive and evil is one thing, but killing people of other nations for no reason crosses the line.
The Chinese government is not stupid, they know that NK went too far this time. The excuse they used is too unbelievable. They just want to buy some time so that the situation de-escalates a little bit and NK will not go bonkers. So China will eventually criticize NK for what they did, there is no way around it, from now on probably in one week.
On November 25 2010 00:39 speedphlux wrote:
I see no point in trying to explain to people any more. Obviously noone has bothered to read my 94th page post about why communism is flawed.
lol. sry but this is just too funny. Like your post would finally settle an over 100 year long discussion. We all have different opinions on that matter, I say Communism could work, others say it can't, but it does not belong here.
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On November 25 2010 00:28 xBillehx wrote:The current stances: China:China, which is North Korea's key ally, has responded obliquely to Tuesday's shelling.
"We have taken note of relevant reports and express our concern. Relevant facts need to be verified and we hope both parties make more contributions to the stability of the peninsula," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei said.Source: CNN
Hahaha thats the most generic "we don't give a fuck" response ever, this is the kind of shit you receive for calling in about your broken xbox not a wartime crisis.
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On November 24 2010 23:41 clementdudu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 19:03 ZerglingSoup wrote:
Even if China decided to launch an invasion, things would get very dangerous for everybody.
I think the sanctions should be slowly reversed and the world should do their best to bring North Korea back into the fold, economically speaking. Slap the golden straight jacket on them and pump their coffers full of American dollars until they stop looking back, just like we did in China.
Unless the world community all of a sudden decides that the most optimal option is worth dying for, we ought to do the best with what we've got over there. WOW first good post in 90 pages? There is no way a military intervention is possible,and usage of nukes on Nkorea would mean that China/Japan would be hit too. Wait for Il to die,work with his son and smother them with goods/food/money. They'll never look back.
It's thinking like this that creates criminals. We didn't pump money into china they created goods and sold them too us. You might as well suggest replacing punishment for criminals with food stamps. 30 more North Koreans will pop up when firing artillery at other nations gets you more money.
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On November 25 2010 00:59 KillerPenguin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 23:41 clementdudu wrote:On November 24 2010 19:03 ZerglingSoup wrote:
Even if China decided to launch an invasion, things would get very dangerous for everybody.
I think the sanctions should be slowly reversed and the world should do their best to bring North Korea back into the fold, economically speaking. Slap the golden straight jacket on them and pump their coffers full of American dollars until they stop looking back, just like we did in China.
Unless the world community all of a sudden decides that the most optimal option is worth dying for, we ought to do the best with what we've got over there. WOW first good post in 90 pages? There is no way a military intervention is possible,and usage of nukes on Nkorea would mean that China/Japan would be hit too. Wait for Il to die,work with his son and smother them with goods/food/money. They'll never look back. It's thinking like this that creates criminals. We didn't pump money into china they created goods and sold them too us. You might as well suggest replacing punishment for criminals with food stamps. 30 more North Koreans will pop up when firing artillery at other nations gets you more money.
and.....you just summed up what i think.
I dont believe in criminal punishment(to some extent of course),i believe in rehabilitation.
Ostracizing someone never made him think,just forced him to get more into his shell,and become even more radical.
International sanctions are helping the Nkorea regim to keep his leadership.
Bullying the fat ginger kid never made him work out and dye his hair,just hate everyone even more.
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Economic embargoes work against countries who would fret about the implications of said embargoes on their international commerce.
Countries that have little international commerce other than aid and bilateral trade with strategic allies that wouldn't participate in the embargo in the first place (or say they would but would continue trade on the black market) have little to fear from economic embargoes.
Cutting aid is simply punitive against the already-oppressed people and wouldn't be seriously considered anyway.
Short: it worked against South Africa; probably won't against NK.
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Ah, it is so way past my bed time... I got to wake up early tml.
But this is so interesting.
Because it is so sensitive, and I have a feeling war might happen if more things go wrong.
I have a roommate from S.Korea, she shows a lil bit of worry just now and talk to me about this, then I know this incident.
I think she is worried because of it involves military? and war. Especially because of some changes in politics in N.Korea.
Ah, I try to tell her not to worry, S.Korea has many friends, and US back up, and N.Korea do not want war because most likely lose. China is not supporting...I talk alot shit.
One part of me, wondering if both of them fight, went to war..
I checked the N.Korea airforce, S.Korea air force. Their fighter planes ( That is all I know keke)
And just close my eyes and imagine things. Ah...I know it isn't so nice to think about war, real fight who will win..
But I just cannot help it. Maybe I should just think, BoxeR vs Terran, who will win.
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On November 25 2010 01:19 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
Ah, it is so way past my bed time... I got to wake up early tml.
But this is so interesting.
Because it is so sensitive, and I have a feeling war might happen if more things go wrong.
I have a roommate from S.Korea, she shows a lil bit of worry just now and talk to me about this, then I know this incident.
I think she is worried because of it involves military? and war. Especially because of some changes in politics in N.Korea.
Ah, I try to tell her not to worry, S.Korea has many friends, and US back up, and N.Korea do not want war because most likely lose. China is not supporting...I talk alot shit.
One part of me, wondering if both of them fight, went to war..
I checked the N.Korea airforce, S.Korea air force. Their fighter planes ( That is all I know keke)
And just close my eyes and imagine things. Ah...I know it isn't so nice to think about war, real fight who will win..
But I just cannot help it. Maybe I should just think, BoxeR vs Terran, who will win.
South Korea would sustain many losses if North Korea decided to invade. Even the garrisoned US trooped would be barreled over by North Korean advance, but the follow up forces from the US would crush all North Korean opposition. I only hope that it doesn't come to that. If we can avoid this, then we should do so.
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On November 25 2010 01:19 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
Ah, it is so way past my bed time... I got to wake up early tml.
But this is so interesting.
Because it is so sensitive, and I have a feeling war might happen if more things go wrong.
I have a roommate from S.Korea, she shows a lil bit of worry just now and talk to me about this, then I know this incident.
I think she is worried because of it involves military? and war. Especially because of some changes in politics in N.Korea.
Ah, I try to tell her not to worry, S.Korea has many friends, and US back up, and N.Korea do not want war because most likely lose. China is not supporting...I talk alot shit.
One part of me, wondering if both of them fight, went to war..
I checked the N.Korea airforce, S.Korea air force. Their fighter planes ( That is all I know keke)
And just close my eyes and imagine things. Ah...I know it isn't so nice to think about war, real fight who will win..
But I just cannot help it. Maybe I should just think, BoxeR vs Terran, who will win.
I wish I could give your friend good news, but while S Korea and its allies would win there wouldn't be much of S Korea left afterwards.
It is true that modern Generation 4.5 aircraft can kill gen 4 aircraft by the dozens, I think Korea still uses some gen 3, and Gen 5 aircraft "F22 Raptor" are untouchable even to Gen 4.5 the problem isn't air superiority. The last report I heard from stated that due to the shear volume of artillery in N Korea it would take several weeks before the last artillery peice was silenced. In the mean time most of the northern half of SK would be riddled with conventional and chemical shells.
N Korea would lose, but not before thousands, maybe millions, of civilians died. Not a pleasant thought.
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Yeah, seriously, North Korea is a very strong military powerhouse and if a war breaks out it's gonna be a really big one... I don't hope that will happen, but at the moment, given their freaky leadership, i somehow expect something to happen. Especially since they'll probably get even less aid supplies now that they did shit again.
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On November 25 2010 01:05 clementdudu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 00:59 KillerPenguin wrote:On November 24 2010 23:41 clementdudu wrote:On November 24 2010 19:03 ZerglingSoup wrote:
Even if China decided to launch an invasion, things would get very dangerous for everybody.
I think the sanctions should be slowly reversed and the world should do their best to bring North Korea back into the fold, economically speaking. Slap the golden straight jacket on them and pump their coffers full of American dollars until they stop looking back, just like we did in China.
Unless the world community all of a sudden decides that the most optimal option is worth dying for, we ought to do the best with what we've got over there. WOW first good post in 90 pages? There is no way a military intervention is possible,and usage of nukes on Nkorea would mean that China/Japan would be hit too. Wait for Il to die,work with his son and smother them with goods/food/money. They'll never look back. It's thinking like this that creates criminals. We didn't pump money into china they created goods and sold them too us. You might as well suggest replacing punishment for criminals with food stamps. 30 more North Koreans will pop up when firing artillery at other nations gets you more money. and.....you just summed up what i think. I dont believe in criminal punishment(to some extent of course),i believe in rehabilitation. Ostracizing someone never made him think,just forced him to get more into his shell,and become even more radical. International sanctions are helping the Nkorea regim to keep his leadership. Bullying the fat ginger kid never made him work out and dye his hair,just hate everyone even more.
The problem is you all are assuming we can, through commerce, modernize the people of NK. This will never happen, their propaganda is too good. Their people are fanatical. Withdrawing sanctions and extending further aid will only prolong the life of their political machine, and you can bet they will find some way to spin that into more hate towards the Western world. Short of military liberation, the best we can do is slowly bleed them to death and hope for a coup or revolution.
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On November 23 2010 18:25 Blobskillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 18:24 DarthXX wrote:On November 23 2010 18:20 GotterdamerunG wrote:On November 23 2010 18:18 VorcePA wrote:On November 23 2010 18:13 CNugent wrote:
The numbers of US army in SK is just meaningless. They are more like a symbol that the US will help SK if they are attacked. 50,000 US troops means a lot more than troops from anywhere else. The technology and training of a US soldier is superior to most other countries. The UK is probably their only real competitor. yeah please turn this thread into "which country's soldier is the best" thread I'm reasonably certain its a fairly commonly accepted view that Israel's soldiers are the best of any military in the world. While most of their gear is supplied by the US, they have (at least on a per soldier basis) the most combat experience due to constant clashes in the middle east. Correct me if I'm mistaken. you are
Germany army fail 
Getting into an argument about whose soldiers is kinda stupid. That said, I'd take a Navy Seal or JTF over any soldier anyday.
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EPT
