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On November 24 2010 20:24 Frankon wrote:according to: http://www.mysinchew.com/node/48422 (linked on wiki so lets take it with a grain of salt if its true or not) South Korea stages a artillery exercises near the North Korean coast. North Korea retaliates with their own artillery fire (still they attack the wrong island) Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Yeonpyeong So SK fires at NK and NK retaliates... Sounds reasonable especially since SK deputy minister of defense acknowledged that there was a test fire of artillery units in that region towards the NK border.
Nope, not reasonable unless it's established South Korea violated NK territorial integrity, which it clearly hadn't.
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On November 24 2010 20:27 Elegy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 24 2010 20:24 Frankon wrote:according to: http://www.mysinchew.com/node/48422 (linked on wiki so lets take it with a grain of salt if its true or not) South Korea stages a artillery exercises near the North Korean coast. North Korea retaliates with their own artillery fire (still they attack the wrong island) Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Yeonpyeong So SK fires at NK and NK retaliates... Sounds reasonable especially since SK deputy minister of defense acknowledged that there was a test fire of artillery units in that region towards the NK border. Nope, not reasonable unless it's established South Korea violated NK territorial integrity, which it clearly hadn't.
Well if a artillery shell crossed the border it would be a vilotaion of NK terrirorial integrity.
Do you have a proof that any shell or any part of it DIDN'T cross the NK border?
Hell Yeah! Im playing devil advocate ^^;
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42410 Posts
On November 24 2010 20:27 Elegy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 20:24 Frankon wrote:according to: http://www.mysinchew.com/node/48422 (linked on wiki so lets take it with a grain of salt if its true or not) South Korea stages a artillery exercises near the North Korean coast. North Korea retaliates with their own artillery fire (still they attack the wrong island) Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Yeonpyeong So SK fires at NK and NK retaliates... Sounds reasonable especially since SK deputy minister of defense acknowledged that there was a test fire of artillery units in that region towards the NK border. Nope, not reasonable unless it's established South Korea violated NK territorial integrity, which it clearly hadn't.
For North-Korea it is reasonable, but otherwise it really isn't. But i gotta say that they are playing with a country who has done same kind of shit for years, so they should've done that drill differently to avoid something like this.
The borders are so close, that who knows if SK actually fired NK's side accidentally..
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 24 2010 18:53 Orome wrote:
Slightly off-topic, but I'm still confused as to why Kim Jong Il had his son go to middle school in an International School in Switzerland. I mean, I used to go to an International School here (incidentally at the same time as Kim Jong Un, but at a different one) and the one thing these schools are keen to promote is tolerance and international understanding. Doesn't seem like the right place for the future leader of NK to get educated, does it?
In addition to what others have said, I'm sure that Kim Jong Il could count on the prospect of power over an entire country to corroupt whatever values his son had picked up in Switzerland...
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On November 24 2010 20:22 speedphlux wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 19:29 annYeong(o11) wrote:
...
Kim Jong Ill is at teh end of his reign, will his son be as bat-shit insane?
... Well, he should be insane. If you take a look at recent eastern Europe's situation, there was a lot of insanity from their commie leaders. Around 1960-1970, the bulgarian com-party decieded to make a freaking sea next to our capital city of Sofia. If you take a look at the map of Bulgaria, you won't need much brain-power to see that this is impossible. Around 10-15 years later, our Romanian mates build the world's most insane building "The Ceauşescu's palace" (nowdays the Romanian Parliament). Need more ? How about Stallin killing 6-8 million russians in the midst of WWII ? Or the infamous Chinese "cultural revolution" (when they banned and nearly destroyed everything "old") ? Being a commie fuck = pretty darn insane. That's the scary part of the whole conflict. The only way you can really negotiate with a commie, is by shooting him in the head first and then start asking questions.
There's no arguing that communism was the greatest evil of the 20th century. Fascists like Hitler, Mussolini, and Pinochet were awful, awful human beings but they still pale in comparison to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Kims of Korea.
Mao, the real architect of the Korean War (he instigated it in order to pressure Stalin to give him ICBMs), actually murdered over 70 million Chinese in peacetime during his 27 year reign. It's a figure that makes Hitler's estimated 11 million death-camp casualties look like child's play =[
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@ Hautamaki : Exactly my toughts. That's why that "small and distant conflict", as bulgarian media are currently trying to describe it, is so scary to me.
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I do agree that might has corrupted wisdomed minds before and that is not likely to change for the younger Kim (stand alone if he ever dared thinking different then his father, because he is reported being quite similar to his father characterwise).
On November 24 2010 20:45 Hautamaki wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 20:22 speedphlux wrote:On November 24 2010 19:29 annYeong(o11) wrote:
...
Kim Jong Ill is at teh end of his reign, will his son be as bat-shit insane?
... Well, he should be insane. If you take a look at recent eastern Europe's situation, there was a lot of insanity from their commie leaders. Around 1960-1970, the bulgarian com-party decieded to make a freaking sea next to our capital city of Sofia. If you take a look at the map of Bulgaria, you won't need much brain-power to see that this is impossible. Around 10-15 years later, our Romanian mates build the world's most insane building "The Ceauşescu's palace" (nowdays the Romanian Parliament). Need more ? How about Stallin killing 6-8 million russians in the midst of WWII ? Or the infamous Chinese "cultural revolution" (when they banned and nearly destroyed everything "old") ? Being a commie fuck = pretty darn insane. That's the scary part of the whole conflict. The only way you can really negotiate with a commie, is by shooting him in the head first and then start asking questions. There's no arguing that communism was the greatest evil of the 20th century. Fascists like Hitler, Mussolini, and Pinochet were awful, awful human beings but they still pale in comparison to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Kims of Korea. Mao, the real architect of the Korean War (he instigated it in order to pressure Stalin to give him ICBMs), actually murdered over 70 million Chinese in peacetime during his 27 year reign. It's a figure that makes Hitler's estimated 11 million death-camp casualties look like child's play =[
I honestly cannot agree with that statement. Maybe you should factor the casualties with population ratio to get kind of a hint what the nazis did here before ranking cruelness. The cold profession which the nazis made of killing people so systematically does only maybe get matched by the Red Khmer.
Nevertheless, totalitarian systems stay bad, regardless of the idea behind it.
No repition of the WW2 derail intended and won't get further into this issue.
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On November 24 2010 20:57 kazansky wrote:I do agree that might has corrupted wisdomed minds before and that is not likely to change for the younger Kim (stand alone if he ever dared thinking different then his father, because he is reported being quite similar to his father characterwise). Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 20:45 Hautamaki wrote:On November 24 2010 20:22 speedphlux wrote:On November 24 2010 19:29 annYeong(o11) wrote:
...
Kim Jong Ill is at teh end of his reign, will his son be as bat-shit insane?
... Well, he should be insane. If you take a look at recent eastern Europe's situation, there was a lot of insanity from their commie leaders. Around 1960-1970, the bulgarian com-party decieded to make a freaking sea next to our capital city of Sofia. If you take a look at the map of Bulgaria, you won't need much brain-power to see that this is impossible. Around 10-15 years later, our Romanian mates build the world's most insane building "The Ceauşescu's palace" (nowdays the Romanian Parliament). Need more ? How about Stallin killing 6-8 million russians in the midst of WWII ? Or the infamous Chinese "cultural revolution" (when they banned and nearly destroyed everything "old") ? Being a commie fuck = pretty darn insane. That's the scary part of the whole conflict. The only way you can really negotiate with a commie, is by shooting him in the head first and then start asking questions. There's no arguing that communism was the greatest evil of the 20th century. Fascists like Hitler, Mussolini, and Pinochet were awful, awful human beings but they still pale in comparison to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Kims of Korea. Mao, the real architect of the Korean War (he instigated it in order to pressure Stalin to give him ICBMs), actually murdered over 70 million Chinese in peacetime during his 27 year reign. It's a figure that makes Hitler's estimated 11 million death-camp casualties look like child's play =[ I honestly cannot agree with that statement. Maybe you should factor the casualties with population ratio to get kind of a hint what the nazis did here before ranking cruelness. The cold profession which the nazis made of killing people so systematically does only maybe get matched by the Red Khmer. Nevertheless, totalitarian systems stay bad, regardless of the idea behind it.
This thread is again changing its heading to WW2. And i'm just gonna warn you that it isn't what admins want.
All what im going to say:
Watch this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soviet_Story
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
Back to the topic:
Seems like N-Korea doesn't even mention anything about the crisis. News cast has been the same as always. Nothing special. Not official info though, just throwing it out there.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
SO I just watched the news this is what went down if people are still confused
NK scrambles couple MiG-21s (goddamn arent these fucking old?) and intrudes Korean Air Space
NK Commences artillery fires on the small naval base on the island (I can't remember but I believe it was 150mm or 170mm rounds)
SK scrambles F-16s in response and positions their K-9 Thunders and fires on NK location
NK then fires on the K-9s, switches targets to 2 civilian locations
NK stops firing, SK stops firing.
NK Condemns SK for doing naval drills they have been doing for YEARS.
SK now wants to charge NK for warcrimes by deliberately attacking civilian areas.
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On November 24 2010 21:18 MrHoon wrote:
SO I just watched the news this is what went down if people are still confused
NK scrambles couple MiG-21s (goddamn arent these fucking old?) and intrudes Korean Air Space
NK Commences artillery fires on the small naval base on the island (I can't remember but I believe it was 150mm or 170mm rounds)
SK scrambles F-16s in response and positions their K-9 Thunders and fires on NK location
NK then fires on the K-9s, switches targets to 2 civilian locations
NK stops firing, SK stops firing.
NK Condemns SK for doing naval drills they have been doing for YEARS.
SK now wants to charge NK for warcrimes by deliberately attacking civilian areas.
That sounds fair. NK shot at civilians who had nothing to do with the reason they claim instigated them into firing in the first place. (Not that it would be correct to fire at SK's military exercise, but you get my point.)
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BBC confirmed 2 civilian deaths in yesterdays attack. Two older construction workers were found dead in the aftermath of the barrage after the fires died out.
There is no excuse for N. Korea to be firing on civilian targets. Even less excuse for for them to have been firing on S. Korea in the first goddamned place.
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Russian Federation124 Posts
On November 24 2010 20:22 speedphlux wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 19:29 annYeong(o11) wrote:
...
Kim Jong Ill is at teh end of his reign, will his son be as bat-shit insane?
... Well, he should be insane. If you take a look at recent eastern Europe's situation, there was a lot of insanity from their commie leaders. Around 1960-1970, the bulgarian com-party decieded to make a freaking sea next to our capital city of Sofia. If you take a look at the map of Bulgaria, you won't need much brain-power to see that this is impossible. Around 10-15 years later, our Romanian mates build the world's most insane building "The Ceauşescu's palace" (nowdays the Romanian Parliament). Need more ? How about Stallin killing 6-8 million russians in the midst of WWII ? Or the infamous Chinese "cultural revolution" (when they banned and nearly destroyed everything "old") ? Being a commie fuck = pretty darn insane. That's the scary part of the whole conflict. The only way you can really negotiate with a commie, is by shooting him in the head first and then start asking questions.
Amen
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Taken from twitter and posted by some Chinese correspondent.
"First Chinese statement on #dprk attack. No condemnation, no criticism but urging both South and North Korea to show "calm and restraint"."
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China needs to start slapping N. Korea around. This has got to stop, no matter how much China likes N. Korea as a buffer between the Western powers, if this kind of thing continues, it will dissolve into open war, which will end horribly for everyone.
China has a large role to play, and if they do it right, can come out way ahead on the international stage.
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On November 24 2010 20:45 Hautamaki wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 20:22 speedphlux wrote:On November 24 2010 19:29 annYeong(o11) wrote:
...
Kim Jong Ill is at teh end of his reign, will his son be as bat-shit insane?
... Well, he should be insane. If you take a look at recent eastern Europe's situation, there was a lot of insanity from their commie leaders. Around 1960-1970, the bulgarian com-party decieded to make a freaking sea next to our capital city of Sofia. If you take a look at the map of Bulgaria, you won't need much brain-power to see that this is impossible. Around 10-15 years later, our Romanian mates build the world's most insane building "The Ceauşescu's palace" (nowdays the Romanian Parliament). Need more ? How about Stallin killing 6-8 million russians in the midst of WWII ? Or the infamous Chinese "cultural revolution" (when they banned and nearly destroyed everything "old") ? Being a commie fuck = pretty darn insane. That's the scary part of the whole conflict. The only way you can really negotiate with a commie, is by shooting him in the head first and then start asking questions. There's no arguing that communism was the greatest evil of the 20th century. Fascists like Hitler, Mussolini, and Pinochet were awful, awful human beings but they still pale in comparison to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Kims of Korea. Mao, the real architect of the Korean War (he instigated it in order to pressure Stalin to give him ICBMs), actually murdered over 70 million Chinese in peacetime during his 27 year reign. It's a figure that makes Hitler's estimated 11 million death-camp casualties look like child's play =[
Also, before the beginning of WW2, Stalin starved 23,000,000 Russians to death in the purges of Ukraine.
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On November 24 2010 20:45 Hautamaki wrote:
Mao, the real architect of the Korean War (he instigated it in order to pressure Stalin to give him ICBMs), actually murdered over 70 million Chinese in peacetime during his 27 year reign. It's a figure that makes Hitler's estimated 11 million death-camp casualties look like child's play =[
I can think of the hundret flowers movement were mao orderd the death of a couple of thousand intellectuals, aside from that..who did he directly murder/order murder? Because you have 69 million more people murdered..
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On November 24 2010 22:38 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 20:45 Hautamaki wrote:On November 24 2010 20:22 speedphlux wrote:On November 24 2010 19:29 annYeong(o11) wrote:
...
Kim Jong Ill is at teh end of his reign, will his son be as bat-shit insane?
... Well, he should be insane. If you take a look at recent eastern Europe's situation, there was a lot of insanity from their commie leaders. Around 1960-1970, the bulgarian com-party decieded to make a freaking sea next to our capital city of Sofia. If you take a look at the map of Bulgaria, you won't need much brain-power to see that this is impossible. Around 10-15 years later, our Romanian mates build the world's most insane building "The Ceauşescu's palace" (nowdays the Romanian Parliament). Need more ? How about Stallin killing 6-8 million russians in the midst of WWII ? Or the infamous Chinese "cultural revolution" (when they banned and nearly destroyed everything "old") ? Being a commie fuck = pretty darn insane. That's the scary part of the whole conflict. The only way you can really negotiate with a commie, is by shooting him in the head first and then start asking questions. There's no arguing that communism was the greatest evil of the 20th century. Fascists like Hitler, Mussolini, and Pinochet were awful, awful human beings but they still pale in comparison to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Kims of Korea. Mao, the real architect of the Korean War (he instigated it in order to pressure Stalin to give him ICBMs), actually murdered over 70 million Chinese in peacetime during his 27 year reign. It's a figure that makes Hitler's estimated 11 million death-camp casualties look like child's play =[ Also, before the beginning of WW2, Stalin starved 23,000,000 Russians to death in the purges of Ukraine.
Communism is simply economic policy. Totalitarian social structures = deaths, not economic policy.
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On November 24 2010 22:44 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 22:38 RoosterSamurai wrote:On November 24 2010 20:45 Hautamaki wrote:On November 24 2010 20:22 speedphlux wrote:On November 24 2010 19:29 annYeong(o11) wrote:
...
Kim Jong Ill is at teh end of his reign, will his son be as bat-shit insane?
... Well, he should be insane. If you take a look at recent eastern Europe's situation, there was a lot of insanity from their commie leaders. Around 1960-1970, the bulgarian com-party decieded to make a freaking sea next to our capital city of Sofia. If you take a look at the map of Bulgaria, you won't need much brain-power to see that this is impossible. Around 10-15 years later, our Romanian mates build the world's most insane building "The Ceauşescu's palace" (nowdays the Romanian Parliament). Need more ? How about Stallin killing 6-8 million russians in the midst of WWII ? Or the infamous Chinese "cultural revolution" (when they banned and nearly destroyed everything "old") ? Being a commie fuck = pretty darn insane. That's the scary part of the whole conflict. The only way you can really negotiate with a commie, is by shooting him in the head first and then start asking questions. There's no arguing that communism was the greatest evil of the 20th century. Fascists like Hitler, Mussolini, and Pinochet were awful, awful human beings but they still pale in comparison to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Kims of Korea. Mao, the real architect of the Korean War (he instigated it in order to pressure Stalin to give him ICBMs), actually murdered over 70 million Chinese in peacetime during his 27 year reign. It's a figure that makes Hitler's estimated 11 million death-camp casualties look like child's play =[ Also, before the beginning of WW2, Stalin starved 23,000,000 Russians to death in the purges of Ukraine. Communism is simply economic policy. Totalitarian social structures = deaths, not economic policy.
It doesn't change the fact that all communist governments are, or at some point have been totalitarians. Cubans, Vietnamese, Russians, North Koreans, and the Chinese were all, at one point, evil to their people. And they were all communists....
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On November 24 2010 22:42 Rflcrx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 20:45 Hautamaki wrote:
Mao, the real architect of the Korean War (he instigated it in order to pressure Stalin to give him ICBMs), actually murdered over 70 million Chinese in peacetime during his 27 year reign. It's a figure that makes Hitler's estimated 11 million death-camp casualties look like child's play =[ I can think of the hundret flowers movement were mao orderd the death of a couple of thousand intellectuals, aside from that..who did he directly murder/order murder? Because you have 69 million more people murdered..
Cultural revolution,persecution in general,and the numerous famines etc caused by the Great Leap Foward.
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On November 24 2010 22:08 Crackensan wrote:
BBC confirmed 2 civilian deaths in yesterdays attack. Two older construction workers were found dead in the aftermath of the barrage after the fires died out.
There is no excuse for N. Korea to be firing on civilian targets. Even less excuse for for them to have been firing on S. Korea in the first goddamned place.
They were not firing on civilians, from what I read they were targeting army base on that island. Civilian casaulities might be result of bad aim, or collateral damage, but I do not believe they would be primary target. I think there would be much more deaths if NK decided to fire on civilian targets.
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