On November 23 2010 17:41 gostunv wrote: How long is SK just gonna let NK keep killing their people? All signs point to NK not stopping the random attacks. With the recent revelation of NK's new uranium enrichment plant, I'd say taking action faster while SK side still has leverage would be a better idea than to wait for NK to develop their own nukes.
SK really doesn't want to go into a war with NK. It's actually better for them to lose a ship here and there than to go to war. They preffer to wait it out till NK changes it's policy.
We see these type of events as provocation. Today's event was unprovoked aggression on South korean soil. in the 1980s the relations were low too but South korea provoked NK's responses.
I don't think they're trying to provoke a war. Regimes like that needs tension.
It seems like the situation has settled a lot and there hasn't been any kind of response/escalation since what was initially reported and followed-up on. Hopefully things will remain that way and the situation will be completely resolved.
What I'm really curious about is to what extent will this embolden North Korea. SK has already severed all economic trade with NK in response to the sinking of the cheonan, and SK and the US have been conducting joint naval exercises since then. Yet they have the balls to pull something like this off.
On November 23 2010 17:11 drhojo wrote: [quote] they want an excuse so that they can get public support for it.
Sub 100 poster and you're already trying to flame bait and say nonsense propaganda? Seriously just stop talking. This isn't a thread for infantile bullshit geopolitics 101.
your elitism is so much better than my "infantile bullshit geopolitics." I'm just presenting an alternate, plausible view. as someone who is from China and visits it regularly I can say with certainty you can never trust the Chinese government.
You're claiming you know the inner workings and strategic thinking of a world superpower on a topic as intricate and complex as N. Korean relations, and you think I'm being elitist? Cut the shit. Yeah, you're from China, and you don't like the gov't, great. Keep your anti-China sentiments in a thread that has China in the title. Propagandist crap like you're spouting is half the reason conflicts like the one being discussed in this thread happen in the first place. To me, your comments are more insulting and inappropriate than any of the dumb cracks about Starcraft, because they're actually the type that cause the most harm.
To clarify my statement was merely presently an alternative view and not a declaration. The claim that war is the last thing china wants is unfounded. neither of us knows for sure and thus you can't reject my claims anymore than I can reject yours. I'm not trying to stir up drama, but like the news reports have said escalation could result in war and people should be aware of that portability.
Unfounded. Really. And all viewpoints are identical. You can't honestly be this foolish, can you?
On November 23 2010 17:11 drhojo wrote: they want an excuse so that they can get public support for it.
is a "an alternate view"? and "not a declaration?" So the "escalation could result in war and people should be aware" and "they want an excuse"? What the fuck? That doesn't even make sense.
I didn't say they were identical. I said neither can be rejected. Initiating an attack versus defending a neighbor are viewed completely different politically.
No one lives their life thinking about shit that can't be rejected because it can't be proved. You disregard the obvious impossibilities. China DOES NOT WANT WAR IN THIS CONTEXT. There is no way anyone with any amount of understanding of the geopolitics of this situation could think otherwise.
your certainly of peace, is cute but naive. you know what they say "ignorance is bliss"
Also the idea of rejecting ideas one by one until the truth is left is the foundation of the scientific theory.
Also obvious is your lack of understanding of philosophy of science. Nothing is known for certain. There is no truth. That you would try to use the scientific theory to try to back up your point that we should account for all eventualities, including impossibilities, is sad.
On November 23 2010 17:24 T0fuuu wrote: Im prolly gonna get flamed for this. But if I was North Korea watching an island on the border and saw KR/US soldiers rehearsing an invasion then I would be a bit paranoid as well. That's assuming that this incident wasnt a calculated attack with political motives and it was a response to a perceived invasion.
They knew in advance that it was a drill so there's no way they could have mistaken this for a planned invasion. Also these drills are held every year.
NK seems to be flexing its muscles and usually the reason is the ruling party wants to get public support behind it. We tend to think that the NK leaders only do what they do to send a message to the outside world but actually often the action is also calculated to send a message to its own population.
People are starving there again because the conservative SK government halted aid shipments after the sinking of the warship earlier this year. With acts of aggression the NK leaders probably hope to accomplish two things- one, as I mentioned before, is to divert the population's attention from their own starvation and worsening economic conditions and the second is to try and pressure the SK government into starting up aid shipments again. However I don't think it's going to work this time. The Lee Myeong Bak administration seems pretty determined not to cave into any sort of pressure from the north and not restart economic aid at least until the north apologizes for the Cheonan sinking and cooperates fully with nuclear inspectors from the UN.
SK had ten years of liberal rule during which the 'sunshine' policy was used. This involved continuous aid shipments to and attempts to increase economic cooperation with the North no matter what provocative things they did in order to try and work towards eventual reunification. It seemed to work to some extent with less acts of aggression by the north and the relative success of north-south economic ventures within the north like the gaesong industrial complex and geumgangsan tourism. However it was also a failure as the whole time the north cooperated in some areas they were also secretly continuing to develop their nuclear program and there was no democratization and increased rights for it's citizens. In the end it seemed like all the aid shipments and economic help were just making the NK elites richer and doing nothing to change the attitudes of the leaders.
The current conservative government is different and seems determined to call NK's bluff. No matter what aggressive acts the north pulls this time I don't think the current administration is going to compromise. In the end NK knows it can't win a war against SK and the US and China won't intervene if they are the aggressors so all they have is posturing.
On November 23 2010 17:11 drhojo wrote: [quote] they want an excuse so that they can get public support for it.
Sub 100 poster and you're already trying to flame bait and say nonsense propaganda? Seriously just stop talking. This isn't a thread for infantile bullshit geopolitics 101.
your elitism is so much better than my "infantile bullshit geopolitics." I'm just presenting an alternate, plausible view. as someone who is from China and visits it regularly I can say with certainty you can never trust the Chinese government.
You're claiming you know the inner workings and strategic thinking of a world superpower on a topic as intricate and complex as N. Korean relations, and you think I'm being elitist? Cut the shit. Yeah, you're from China, and you don't like the gov't, great. Keep your anti-China sentiments in a thread that has China in the title. Propagandist crap like you're spouting is half the reason conflicts like the one being discussed in this thread happen in the first place. To me, your comments are more insulting and inappropriate than any of the dumb cracks about Starcraft, because they're actually the type that cause the most harm.
To clarify my statement was merely presently an alternative view and not a declaration. The claim that war is the last thing china wants is unfounded. neither of us knows for sure and thus you can't reject my claims anymore than I can reject yours. I'm not trying to stir up drama, but like the news reports have said escalation could result in war and people should be aware of that portability.
Unfounded. Really. And all viewpoints are identical. You can't honestly be this foolish, can you?
On November 23 2010 17:11 drhojo wrote: they want an excuse so that they can get public support for it.
is a "an alternate view"? and "not a declaration?" So the "escalation could result in war and people should be aware" and "they want an excuse"? What the fuck? That doesn't even make sense.
I didn't say they were identical. I said neither can be rejected. Initiating an attack versus defending a neighbor are viewed completely different politically.
No one lives their life thinking about shit that can't be rejected because it can't be proved. You disregard the obvious impossibilities. China DOES NOT WANT WAR IN THIS CONTEXT. There is no way anyone with any amount of understanding of the geopolitics of this situation could think otherwise.
your certainly of peace, is cute but naive. you know what they say "ignorance is bliss"
I disagree with that quote. Your ignorance disgusts me.
lol resorting to blatant insults, a true sign of victory on the internet. btw the rejection ideas through proof until the truth is found is a foundation of math, science, and logic.
Who needs to watch the news when there's TL, major props. NK really seems to be pushing its luck with this one, I really hope they don't get away with murdering an innocent solider, but at the same time any sort of retaliation will only hurt more people. And its not like the NK people are a fault, they're as much victims, if not more so than others that's the trouble with dealing with corrupt reigimes that have their populace pretty much as an ethical shield to hide behind
On November 23 2010 17:51 sksyen wrote: Would those who are currently in Korea comment on what the situation is like? According to posts on Reddit from those living in SK, people are just going about their way as if nothing happened(???).
Does not surprise me, relations between SK and NK are not exactly optimal and events like this are not terribly uncommon. I really don't think this is a big deal globally and aside from a couple casualties which is always unnecessary and tragic.
On November 23 2010 17:19 StorkHwaiting wrote: [quote]
Sub 100 poster and you're already trying to flame bait and say nonsense propaganda? Seriously just stop talking. This isn't a thread for infantile bullshit geopolitics 101.
your elitism is so much better than my "infantile bullshit geopolitics." I'm just presenting an alternate, plausible view. as someone who is from China and visits it regularly I can say with certainty you can never trust the Chinese government.
You're claiming you know the inner workings and strategic thinking of a world superpower on a topic as intricate and complex as N. Korean relations, and you think I'm being elitist? Cut the shit. Yeah, you're from China, and you don't like the gov't, great. Keep your anti-China sentiments in a thread that has China in the title. Propagandist crap like you're spouting is half the reason conflicts like the one being discussed in this thread happen in the first place. To me, your comments are more insulting and inappropriate than any of the dumb cracks about Starcraft, because they're actually the type that cause the most harm.
To clarify my statement was merely presently an alternative view and not a declaration. The claim that war is the last thing china wants is unfounded. neither of us knows for sure and thus you can't reject my claims anymore than I can reject yours. I'm not trying to stir up drama, but like the news reports have said escalation could result in war and people should be aware of that portability.
Unfounded. Really. And all viewpoints are identical. You can't honestly be this foolish, can you?
On November 23 2010 17:11 drhojo wrote: they want an excuse so that they can get public support for it.
is a "an alternate view"? and "not a declaration?" So the "escalation could result in war and people should be aware" and "they want an excuse"? What the fuck? That doesn't even make sense.
I didn't say they were identical. I said neither can be rejected. Initiating an attack versus defending a neighbor are viewed completely different politically.
No one lives their life thinking about shit that can't be rejected because it can't be proved. You disregard the obvious impossibilities. China DOES NOT WANT WAR IN THIS CONTEXT. There is no way anyone with any amount of understanding of the geopolitics of this situation could think otherwise.
your certainly of peace, is cute but naive. you know what they say "ignorance is bliss"
Also the idea of rejecting ideas one by one until the truth is left is the foundation of the scientific theory.
Also obvious is your lack of understanding of philosophy of science. Nothing is known for certain. There is no truth. That you would try to use the scientific theory to try to back up your point that we should account for all eventualities, including impossibilities, is sad.
NK is just pushing SK's buttons because they can. Because the world isn't going to do shit until NK does something much worse. NK knows this, Il just wants the attention. He's a classic attention whore. There will continue to be small incidents like this until SK and the US says "ENOUGH", and even then, SK has far more to lose than gain. Like the guy said a few pages back, SK is in pretty much the worst possible position here.
On November 23 2010 17:52 Warrior Madness wrote: What I'm really curious about is to what extent will this embolden North Korea. SK has already severed all economic trade with NK in response to the sinking of the cheonan, and SK and the US have been conducting joint naval exercises since then. Yet they have the balls to pull something like this off.
thing is, this might have been caused by some artillery commander went batshit crazy and orders the shelling without the governments knowledge or approval..
that is a possible scenario because really, i don see any point of this attack doesn't look like they would gain anything out of it risking a "shit just got real" situation. then again maybe i'm just failing to see the whole picture.
On November 23 2010 17:48 Moonling wrote: Has anybody heard of what China, Japan, or U.S has said in response?
China wants everyone to relax. Says they're waiting for facts, but really, they pretty much just said that they want the status quo to remain.
On November 23 2010 17:48 drhojo wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:45 VikingKong wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:42 drhojo wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:39 VikingKong wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:36 drhojo wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:25 StorkHwaiting wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:22 drhojo wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:19 StorkHwaiting wrote: [quote]
Sub 100 poster and you're already trying to flame bait and say nonsense propaganda? Seriously just stop talking. This isn't a thread for infantile bullshit geopolitics 101.
your elitism is so much better than my "infantile bullshit geopolitics." I'm just presenting an alternate, plausible view. as someone who is from China and visits it regularly I can say with certainty you can never trust the Chinese government.
You're claiming you know the inner workings and strategic thinking of a world superpower on a topic as intricate and complex as N. Korean relations, and you think I'm being elitist? Cut the shit. Yeah, you're from China, and you don't like the gov't, great. Keep your anti-China sentiments in a thread that has China in the title. Propagandist crap like you're spouting is half the reason conflicts like the one being discussed in this thread happen in the first place. To me, your comments are more insulting and inappropriate than any of the dumb cracks about Starcraft, because they're actually the type that cause the most harm.
To clarify my statement was merely presently an alternative view and not a declaration. The claim that war is the last thing china wants is unfounded. neither of us knows for sure and thus you can't reject my claims anymore than I can reject yours. I'm not trying to stir up drama, but like the news reports have said escalation could result in war and people should be aware of that portability.
Unfounded. Really. And all viewpoints are identical. You can't honestly be this foolish, can you?
On November 23 2010 17:11 drhojo wrote: they want an excuse so that they can get public support for it.
is a "an alternate view"? and "not a declaration?" So the "escalation could result in war and people should be aware" and "they want an excuse"? What the fuck? That doesn't even make sense.
I didn't say they were identical. I said neither can be rejected. Initiating an attack versus defending a neighbor are viewed completely different politically.
No one lives their life thinking about shit that can't be rejected because it can't be proved. You disregard the obvious impossibilities. China DOES NOT WANT WAR IN THIS CONTEXT. There is no way anyone with any amount of understanding of the geopolitics of this situation could think otherwise.
your certainly of peace, is cute but naive. you know what they say "ignorance is bliss"
I disagree with that quote. Your ignorance disgusts me.
lol resorting to blatant insults, a true sign of victory on the internet. btw the rejection ideas through proof until the truth is found is a foundation of math, science, and logic.
You should read the post he was responding to..oh wait.
On November 23 2010 17:48 Moonling wrote: Has anybody heard of what China, Japan, or U.S has said in response?
China wants everyone to relax. Says they're waiting for facts, but really, they pretty much just said that they want the status quo to remain.
On November 23 2010 17:48 drhojo wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:45 VikingKong wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:42 drhojo wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:39 VikingKong wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:36 drhojo wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:25 StorkHwaiting wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:22 drhojo wrote:
On November 23 2010 17:19 StorkHwaiting wrote: [quote]
Sub 100 poster and you're already trying to flame bait and say nonsense propaganda? Seriously just stop talking. This isn't a thread for infantile bullshit geopolitics 101.
your elitism is so much better than my "infantile bullshit geopolitics." I'm just presenting an alternate, plausible view. as someone who is from China and visits it regularly I can say with certainty you can never trust the Chinese government.
You're claiming you know the inner workings and strategic thinking of a world superpower on a topic as intricate and complex as N. Korean relations, and you think I'm being elitist? Cut the shit. Yeah, you're from China, and you don't like the gov't, great. Keep your anti-China sentiments in a thread that has China in the title. Propagandist crap like you're spouting is half the reason conflicts like the one being discussed in this thread happen in the first place. To me, your comments are more insulting and inappropriate than any of the dumb cracks about Starcraft, because they're actually the type that cause the most harm.
To clarify my statement was merely presently an alternative view and not a declaration. The claim that war is the last thing china wants is unfounded. neither of us knows for sure and thus you can't reject my claims anymore than I can reject yours. I'm not trying to stir up drama, but like the news reports have said escalation could result in war and people should be aware of that portability.
Unfounded. Really. And all viewpoints are identical. You can't honestly be this foolish, can you?
On November 23 2010 17:11 drhojo wrote: they want an excuse so that they can get public support for it.
is a "an alternate view"? and "not a declaration?" So the "escalation could result in war and people should be aware" and "they want an excuse"? What the fuck? That doesn't even make sense.
I didn't say they were identical. I said neither can be rejected. Initiating an attack versus defending a neighbor are viewed completely different politically.
No one lives their life thinking about shit that can't be rejected because it can't be proved. You disregard the obvious impossibilities. China DOES NOT WANT WAR IN THIS CONTEXT. There is no way anyone with any amount of understanding of the geopolitics of this situation could think otherwise.
your certainly of peace, is cute but naive. you know what they say "ignorance is bliss"
I disagree with that quote. Your ignorance disgusts me.
lol resorting to blatant insults, a true sign of victory on the internet. btw the rejection ideas through proof until the truth is found is a foundation of math, science, and logic.
Because you didn't do that first, amirite? Jesus christ man, you must be trolling. And holy shit, rejection ideas through proof is stupid because there is no proof for anything ever! How can you not understand this? And, to bring this back into context, China not wanting war in this situation is as "proven" as anything can be, so why talk about impossibilities?
EPT
