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On December 18 2010 04:34 DisBabylonSystem wrote:
I am pretty sure SAMS do not shoot down missles(only can shoot down planes), and especially nuclear misslies. Even if they shoot it down in the air, it will still cause major damage.
The patriot missile system was originally designed to shoot down aircraft but was used with some sucess to shoot down the ballistic SCUD missiles in the first Gulf War. Since then they've been refined and are fairly efficent.
The shear number of missiles might be a problem but the nuclear issue is mute either way. As I've been saying North Korean nukes aren't weaponized yet. They're too large to fit onto any ballistic missile they own. Probably too large to bring in by aircraft, and we'd definately have air superiority anyways. They would have to bring any nukes in by ship or truck, which would be stopped at any boarder or out at sea.
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Oh man if this is world war 3 i got souths back all the way. you think bein a pilot in this day and age is more difficult? like... AUTO ROCKETS.. Oh well, i guess theres like auto eject?
Seriously though i really wanna see how this develops. South korea is pissed, and it should be.
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On December 18 2010 04:48 Duban wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2010 04:34 DisBabylonSystem wrote:
I am pretty sure SAMS do not shoot down missles(only can shoot down planes), and especially nuclear misslies. Even if they shoot it down in the air, it will still cause major damage. The patriot missile system was originally designed to shoot down aircraft but was used with some sucess to shoot down the ballistic SCUD missiles in the first Gulf War. Since then they've been refined and are fairly efficent. The shear number of missiles might be a problem but the nuclear issue is mute either way. As I've been saying North Korean nukes aren't weaponized yet. They're too large to fit onto any ballistic missile they own. Probably too large to bring in by aircraft, and we'd definately have air superiority anyways. They would have to bring any nukes in by ship or truck, which would be stopped at any boarder or out at sea.
Or by tunnel, of which they supposedly have a lot leading directly to under Seoul (that's what people have been saying).
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Living in Oregon just got a bit...concerning after hearing the North Korean threats O_O
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On December 17 2010 19:50 xBillehx wrote:An update for anyone wondering: South Korea is planning more live fire exercises sometime from Saturday-Tuesday (18th-21st) on the very same Yeonpyeong Island. They plan to shoot off artillery just the same as before but with US & UN officials there to monitor the drills and confirm it's not violating the DRPK's territory. They've publicly announced to North Korea where they will be firing and notified everyone ahead of time. North Korea, unsurprisingly, has issued a warning that if South Korea does this drill they will retaliate with " self-defensive strikes" that would be " deadlier" than last time. Earlier today, the North Korean website again warned " If war breaks out, it will lead to nuclear warfare and will not be limited to the Korean Peninsula." Despite this, the South Korean Defense Ministry so far says the drills will continue as planned. The statement released said " Our military decided not to reply after concluding that we do not need to respond to every threat and unreasonable argument by the North." Keep in mind that if another attack is made on South Korea, they vowed to respond with military force and call air strikes on all of North Korean artillery. Hopefully this doesn't escalate into another conflict. Sources are Yohap & VOA news reporter in SK. Yohap Articlehttp://twitter.com/YonhapNewshttp://twitter.com/W7VOA
I was just looking at the Yonhap article earlier and I really don't see South Korea backing down from their military exercises even with the threats. I don't want to be the guy saying that war is about to happen, but tensions have undoubtedly been rising exponentially this year.
You can say what you want, but I think that Korean War pt. 2 is closer than ever in decades.
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On December 18 2010 05:45 Shigy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 19:50 xBillehx wrote:An update for anyone wondering: South Korea is planning more live fire exercises sometime from Saturday-Tuesday (18th-21st) on the very same Yeonpyeong Island. They plan to shoot off artillery just the same as before but with US & UN officials there to monitor the drills and confirm it's not violating the DRPK's territory. They've publicly announced to North Korea where they will be firing and notified everyone ahead of time. North Korea, unsurprisingly, has issued a warning that if South Korea does this drill they will retaliate with " self-defensive strikes" that would be " deadlier" than last time. Earlier today, the North Korean website again warned " If war breaks out, it will lead to nuclear warfare and will not be limited to the Korean Peninsula." Despite this, the South Korean Defense Ministry so far says the drills will continue as planned. The statement released said " Our military decided not to reply after concluding that we do not need to respond to every threat and unreasonable argument by the North." Keep in mind that if another attack is made on South Korea, they vowed to respond with military force and call air strikes on all of North Korean artillery. Hopefully this doesn't escalate into another conflict. Sources are Yohap & VOA news reporter in SK. Yohap Articlehttp://twitter.com/YonhapNewshttp://twitter.com/W7VOA I was just looking at the Yonhap article earlier and I really don't see South Korea backing down from their military exercises even with the threats. I don't want to be the guy saying that war is about to happen, but tensions have undoubtedly been rising exponentially this year. You can say what you want, but I think that Korean War pt. 2 is closer than ever in decades.
I can kind of agree with this, but with the stakes being so high, I still don't see what they would actually be going to war over. What does either side really have to gain? What is actually at stake? The way I see it (though I do not claim to be an expert, I just read through this thread and news stuff), they just kind of hate each other but don't have nearly enough to ACTUALLY gain to justify a huge blood war.
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On December 18 2010 06:09 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2010 05:45 Shigy wrote:On December 17 2010 19:50 xBillehx wrote:An update for anyone wondering: South Korea is planning more live fire exercises sometime from Saturday-Tuesday (18th-21st) on the very same Yeonpyeong Island. They plan to shoot off artillery just the same as before but with US & UN officials there to monitor the drills and confirm it's not violating the DRPK's territory. They've publicly announced to North Korea where they will be firing and notified everyone ahead of time. North Korea, unsurprisingly, has issued a warning that if South Korea does this drill they will retaliate with " self-defensive strikes" that would be " deadlier" than last time. Earlier today, the North Korean website again warned " If war breaks out, it will lead to nuclear warfare and will not be limited to the Korean Peninsula." Despite this, the South Korean Defense Ministry so far says the drills will continue as planned. The statement released said " Our military decided not to reply after concluding that we do not need to respond to every threat and unreasonable argument by the North." Keep in mind that if another attack is made on South Korea, they vowed to respond with military force and call air strikes on all of North Korean artillery. Hopefully this doesn't escalate into another conflict. Sources are Yohap & VOA news reporter in SK. Yohap Articlehttp://twitter.com/YonhapNewshttp://twitter.com/W7VOA I was just looking at the Yonhap article earlier and I really don't see South Korea backing down from their military exercises even with the threats. I don't want to be the guy saying that war is about to happen, but tensions have undoubtedly been rising exponentially this year. You can say what you want, but I think that Korean War pt. 2 is closer than ever in decades. I can kind of agree with this, but with the stakes being so high, I still don't see what they would actually be going to war over. What does either side really have to gain? What is actually at stake? The way I see it (though I do not claim to be an expert, I just read through this thread and news stuff), they just kind of hate each other but don't have nearly enough to ACTUALLY gain to justify a huge blood war.
Political domination over the opposing state
Reunification
Rights to natural resources and land
I doubt North Korea doesn't has a chance to win such a war, but we'll see if they really do provoke war. With the vengeful rhetoric from the ROK, I don't think they will tolerate any more shit from the North and if they respond aggressively to ROK military exercises - I really think that the South will follow through with a strong retaliation.
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On December 18 2010 06:48 Shigy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2010 06:09 Mohdoo wrote:On December 18 2010 05:45 Shigy wrote:On December 17 2010 19:50 xBillehx wrote:An update for anyone wondering: South Korea is planning more live fire exercises sometime from Saturday-Tuesday (18th-21st) on the very same Yeonpyeong Island. They plan to shoot off artillery just the same as before but with US & UN officials there to monitor the drills and confirm it's not violating the DRPK's territory. They've publicly announced to North Korea where they will be firing and notified everyone ahead of time. North Korea, unsurprisingly, has issued a warning that if South Korea does this drill they will retaliate with " self-defensive strikes" that would be " deadlier" than last time. Earlier today, the North Korean website again warned " If war breaks out, it will lead to nuclear warfare and will not be limited to the Korean Peninsula." Despite this, the South Korean Defense Ministry so far says the drills will continue as planned. The statement released said " Our military decided not to reply after concluding that we do not need to respond to every threat and unreasonable argument by the North." Keep in mind that if another attack is made on South Korea, they vowed to respond with military force and call air strikes on all of North Korean artillery. Hopefully this doesn't escalate into another conflict. Sources are Yohap & VOA news reporter in SK. Yohap Articlehttp://twitter.com/YonhapNewshttp://twitter.com/W7VOA I was just looking at the Yonhap article earlier and I really don't see South Korea backing down from their military exercises even with the threats. I don't want to be the guy saying that war is about to happen, but tensions have undoubtedly been rising exponentially this year. You can say what you want, but I think that Korean War pt. 2 is closer than ever in decades. I can kind of agree with this, but with the stakes being so high, I still don't see what they would actually be going to war over. What does either side really have to gain? What is actually at stake? The way I see it (though I do not claim to be an expert, I just read through this thread and news stuff), they just kind of hate each other but don't have nearly enough to ACTUALLY gain to justify a huge blood war. Political domination over the opposing state Reunification Rights to natural resources and land I doubt North Korea doesn't has a chance to win such a war, but we'll see if they really do provoke war. With the vengeful rhetoric from the ROK, I don't think they will tolerate any more shit from the North and if they respond aggressively to ROK military exercises - I really think that the South will follow through with a strong retaliation.
NK's little "skirmishes", if you can even call them that, over the past years have come at the cost of human lives. 1 or 2 lives here or there may not sound so troublesome in the entire picture of a war, but these are human lives never to return, lives lost in vain, with no merit, the result of cowardly actions by a country that continually refuses to take the blame, nor send condolences, or even admitting to accidents.
I'd like to think I'm all for peaceful and diplomatic solutions ... but sometimes, an eye for an eye ...
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On December 18 2010 04:48 Duban wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2010 04:34 DisBabylonSystem wrote:
I am pretty sure SAMS do not shoot down missles(only can shoot down planes), and especially nuclear misslies. Even if they shoot it down in the air, it will still cause major damage. The patriot missile system was originally designed to shoot down aircraft but was used with some sucess to shoot down the ballistic SCUD missiles in the first Gulf War. Since then they've been refined and are fairly efficent. The shear number of missiles might be a problem but the nuclear issue is mute either way. As I've been saying North Korean nukes aren't weaponized yet. They're too large to fit onto any ballistic missile they own. Probably too large to bring in by aircraft, and we'd definately have air superiority anyways. They would have to bring any nukes in by ship or truck, which would be stopped at any boarder or out at sea.
Well, we don't know how far they have actually weaponized them. We were saying not long ago it would take them years to develop one and then all of a sudden people are saying they got 20+... so really hard to say. As for air-superiority, sure, when the U.S. finally mobilizes to the Korean Peninsula, but by then, the damage would already be done.
It's up in the air as to who would do better, the N.K. or S.K. army, as the U.S. only has 20-30k troops there.
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Well, we don't know how far they have actually weaponized them. We were saying not long ago it would take them years to develop one and then all of a sudden people are saying they got 20+... so really hard to say. As for air-superiority, sure, when the U.S. finally mobilizes to the Korean Peninsula, but by then, the damage would already be done.
It's up in the air as to who would do better, the N.K. or S.K. army, as the U.S. only has 20-30k troops there.
Well who knows how the ground battle would go early on, but all it would take is one carrier for the skies. Modern generation 4.5 aircraft like the f18 super hornet can take on older generation fighters by the dozens.
Every Nimitz class carrier has about 80-90 aircraft and we just moved a Carrier into the area for these training operations and I'm sure more are on standby. Also, I'm sure the US air bases in Japan will respond fairly quickly. Honestly, i would be much more worried about the chemical and conventional artillery shells that will pound S Korea than any air threat. Those pose a significant threat to allied civilian centers.
Also, maybe N Korea has enough raw material for ~20 bombs. However getting raw material and building a working device from refined material is surprisingly simple. The reason there are so few nuclear states is because going from raw material to fissile material is the difficult part. Uranium 238 is extremely similar to the fissile U235, but the majority of raw uranium is U238.
The only way to separate the two is by repeatedly taking advantage of the small difference in mass. The process is slow, expensive, and by far the largest barrier to becoming a nuclear power. There is a huge difference between having enough raw uranium for 20 bombs and actually having 20 bombs.
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"China fisherman dies in clash with S Korea coast guard"
The crew of a Chinese trawler and a South Korean patrol ship have clashed, leaving one fisherman dead and two missing, South Korean officials say.
The clash reportedly happened as the coast guards tried to prevent Chinese boats from fishing illegally off South Korea's west coast.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12026765
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I wouldn't be surprised, Asia does have some crazy monsoon seasons.
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So they won't conduct the drill because of bad weather, but a threat of nuclear war doesn't matter?
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On December 19 2010 01:22 lowkontrast wrote:So they won't conduct the drill because of bad weather, but a threat of nuclear war doesn't matter?
There is no threat of nuclear war.
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On December 19 2010 01:26 whitelynx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 01:22 lowkontrast wrote:So they won't conduct the drill because of bad weather, but a threat of nuclear war doesn't matter? There is no threat of nuclear war.
but there is a threat of war and shelling of Seul
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I believe it is mostly China's fault who thinks its a good idea to fight proxy war through N.Korea .
We all know about Korean war and it was like the Vietnam war for China which has made it an prestige issue. Seriously, if Kim jong didn't had the China's backing (ditto for Pakistan) asia would be a lot peaceful place.
PS: I don't blame people of China. I simply meant the 'beloved dictator' of China.
PPS: My full support goes to S.Koreans. How can the people who play Starcraft can ever be bad????
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On December 19 2010 01:32 stalking.d00m wrote:
I believe it is mostly China's fault who thinks its a good idea to fight proxy war through N.Korea .
We all know about Korean war and it was like the Vietnam war for China which has made it an prestige issue. Seriously, if Kim jong didn't had the China's backing (ditto for Pakistan) asia would be a lot peaceful place.
PS: I don't blame people of China. I simply meant the 'beloved dictator' of China.
PPS: My full support goes to S.Koreans. How can the people who play Starcraft can ever be bad????
Yes, I suppose if everyone just laid down and allowed the USA and her allies to take over the world, then the world would become a more peaceful place. Of course, sovereignty, border security, national defense, these are all just issues of prestige.
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On December 18 2010 05:00 Somad12345 wrote:
Oh man if this is world war 3 i got souths back all the way. you think bein a pilot in this day and age is more difficult? like... AUTO ROCKETS.. Oh well, i guess theres like auto eject?
Seriously though i really wanna see how this develops. South korea is pissed, and it should be.
Lol this question. I hate to be condescending, but are you asking santa for an F-15 this year?
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On December 19 2010 01:28 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 01:26 whitelynx wrote:On December 19 2010 01:22 lowkontrast wrote:So they won't conduct the drill because of bad weather, but a threat of nuclear war doesn't matter? There is no threat of nuclear war. but there is a threat of war and shelling of Seul
Threat of starting a war due to a military drill is completely unjustified and stupid.
Besides, it's not the first time NK did some tough talks.
NK knows if war breaks out, regardless of who starts it, the Kim regime will fall, and that is something, the only thing in fact, that NK is desperately trying to prevent.
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EPT
