obligatory health care in smaller pop countries (yours is 7.6m to >300m) is easier to pull off, especially when you aren't dealing with private insurance companies (which I'm not sure if you aren't). Health care in america needs to be done with some manner of finese because there are many ways to exploit it and the overhead is simply rediculous.
Sorry but this is just wrong, population is irrelevant. If your talking about the cost of the govt, providing healthcare to 300m people is not feasible you need to look at average income, and I'm quite sure the average income in the states is quite a bit higher than a host of other countries which offer govt. healthcare
Here in the united states we have something called laws which prevent fraud and theft. Regulating business practices never prevented these things.
Regulation also includes unfair business practices such as what the banks pulled. Making laws changing the way business works is regulation. That's what regulation is. There can be crappy, unenforced, or stupid regulation that wastes money, but there is also good solid regulation that keeps businesses from ruining the economy.
Fraud and Theft isn't nearly all businesses can do. Anti-Trust Laws are regulation. There's tons of regulation in the US that is right now making sure our economy doesn't do something stupid. Don't try to pretend that regulation is useless and helps no one.
To Europeans: How big of an issue is money in your politics? In America, its honestly what it always comes down to. The rich want the conservatives in power, the poor want the liberals in power, and both sides will beat each other to death to keep their money.
First of all, that's not true at all. Tons of rich people in New York and that's one of the most liberal parts of America. It's a lot more complicated than just Income. Second of all, even if that were true, it wouldn't be mean much because the vast vast majority of America is in the middle. You know, powerful middle class? Kind of a big deal.
obligatory health care in smaller pop countries (yours is 7.6m to >300m) is easier to pull off, especially when you aren't dealing with private insurance companies (which I'm not sure if you aren't). Health care in america needs to be done with some manner of finese because there are many ways to exploit it and the overhead is simply rediculous.
Sorry but this is just wrong, population is irrelevant. If your talking about the cost of the govt, providing healthcare to 300m people is not feasible you need to look at average income, and I'm quite sure the average income in the states is quite a bit higher than a host of other countries which offer govt. healthcare
Population is very relevant. You have to put in very expensive organizations to keep the system in place and keep it working for everyone. The larger the organization, the more expensive per capita its going to be. Really, in any economic model population is a very important facet of it. You can't just ignore population.
On November 04 2010 11:37 Almin wrote: The US elections are so corrupt.
There's 2 parties: Republicans and Democrats.
Republicans say they want tax cuts for the middle class, but they also want tax cuts for the top wage earners ie Millionaires and Billionaires. They say they are for the middle class, but they want to give tax cuts to the rich? And refuse to give to middle class until these millionaires and billionaires also get it. Republicans also refused to vote to force BP Officials to be under Oath. What reason can that be? They are paid by the lobbiests and big companies through campaign donations.
There's a reason why 97% of all political donations to Republicans come from millionaires and billionaires and quite the opposite for the democrats. Who really cares about the middle class? Neither. Both try to get reelected
Democrats: Paint Republicans as insane religious nuts, some are, but not all of them.
As I'm in America, I literally saw campaign television ads every 4-5commercials for months by Republicans and Democrats but mainly republicans. Where are they getting this money from? Big companies that control them.
Why not cut taxes for the multibillion dollar companies. If you do a 1% tax cut on a 100billion dollar company they would save 1 Billion dollars, in our current economy it takes aprox 70k to employ a 40k worker. 1 billion divided by 70k is >14k potential jobs per company, And if any community knows how much the worker is worth it would be the sc community. To be honest companies aren't going to take a 1% cut on their wallets, they are going to raise the prices and reduce staff (which reduces customer service) to make up for profits lost.
Here is another interesting donation fact that you probably don't know. SEIU recieved the government money that was thrown at chrysler because chrysler filed chapter 13 and signed over majority to SEIU (who walked away with hundreds of billions) guess who SEIU backed in the presidential election???? Democratic nominee Obama. Both sides are just as corrupt, but 1 side has the general media in their back pockets.
I have nothing against you're political system, but it legitimately scares me when complete and utter morons like Palin have a legitimate shot of running next term. And even scarier, she could very well win. Just because she's viewed as a "Maverick" (which I always associate with Top Gun then I think of Highway to the Dangerzone) and Fox News can go on propaganda trips calling Obama a Muslim. Things seem so tied to self interest and religion that it's actually revolting.
Generally though I find it pretty damn hilarious that issues like universal healthcare are so opposed. It's just stupid. Typical politicians looking out for themselves. Again and again and again. Then you get gems like this;
Whatever. I'll keep laughing as long as the comedy comes. Maybe a complete retard in office is what the American public needs to open their eyes.
Compared to where I live, US politics are a lot more right-wing. It seems US politicians are either moderate/centrist right-wing or extreme right-wing. There is no opposition to class based systems (like capitalism, feudalism, etc) apparent in the US at all.
The population is turning more democratic every generation. It wont be long and the Republican party will be non-existent. Once the voters that are 40+ years old die it wont be a contest.
On November 04 2010 11:37 Almin wrote: The US elections are so corrupt.
There's 2 parties: Republicans and Democrats.
Republicans say they want tax cuts for the middle class, but they also want tax cuts for the top wage earners ie Millionaires and Billionaires. They say they are for the middle class, but they want to give tax cuts to the rich? And refuse to give to middle class until these millionaires and billionaires also get it. Republicans also refused to vote to force BP Officials to be under Oath. What reason can that be? They are paid by the lobbiests and big companies through campaign donations.
There's a reason why 97% of all political donations to Republicans come from millionaires and billionaires and quite the opposite for the democrats. Who really cares about the middle class? Neither. Both try to get reelected
Democrats: Paint Republicans as insane religious nuts, some are, but not all of them.
As I'm in America, I literally saw campaign television ads every 4-5commercials for months by Republicans and Democrats but mainly republicans. Where are they getting this money from? Big companies that control them.
Why not cut taxes for the multibillion dollar companies. If you do a 1% tax cut on a 100billion dollar company they would save 1 Billion dollars, in our current economy it takes aprox 70k to employ a 40k worker. 1 billion divided by 70k is >14k potential jobs per company, And if any community knows how much the worker is worth it would be the sc community. To be honest companies aren't going to take a 1% cut on their wallets, they are going to raise the prices and reduce staff (which reduces customer service) to make up for profits lost.
............
Are you serious? Really? Do you REALLY think that our gracious rich overlords just gift us with jobs? Have you ever heard of a concept called demand? How about capacity utilization? Do you frequently watch Ron Paul and\or Peter Schiff videos on Youtube?
On November 04 2010 06:10 Shockk wrote: I wouldn't generalize what my country thinks about US politics. I'll just deliver my opinion.
US politics do get some media attention here in Germany, especially around voting time. General media trend here seems to be "Obama and the Good Guys" vs. "The Batshit Insane Republicans and their Wacko Friends". Some of the people we hear from across the great pond - Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, that preacher who wants Obama to die - make our most die hard conservative politicians look like harmless left wing first semester politics students.
My knowledge of the US politics doesn't come from the TV or newspapers - I educated myself. In fact, without the Internet, I would be clueless about what the hell is going on in the world today.
I define politics as making choices in someone else's name. Why would you ever want that? If you are sensible, why should you beg (that's what the elections are) anyone to make decisions in your name? Especially when you don't know that someone, don't know his\her intentions or have any say in what that person is going to decide?
If there are 50 of us in the village and we get together one day and Mark volunteers to take care of certain business for us, for example dig a well for the entire village in the next 3 months, we all agree and allot him certain funds, necessary tools and so on, he better do what he promised to do.
Let's say that time passed by and after 3 months, Mark hasn't even started yet. In fact, he gambled all the money we gave him and also sold all the tools.
What can the rest of us do? Well, we can teach him a lesson on how to be responsible by any means we choose.
And what can you do if Obama outright lies? Can you hold him accountable? Hell no! I imagine that If you try even so much as sending a letter or an e-mail to him, just calling him a 'jerk', you can expect to be black-listed, no-fly listed and God knows what else in the next 5 minutes.
So, for me, the politics can possibly ever work only locally, when we all know one another and the one making decisions can be held accountable by the rest of us.
Another thing I noticed in this thread is the casual use of the word 'democracy'. Here is one definition of the word:
majority rule: the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group
USA is not nor was it ever supposed to be a democracy:
(watch from 3:14 for relevant quote)
However, all countries of the 'West' seem to be proud to consider themselves democracies, because it's more convenient for the government to merely count the votes, instead of accommodating to individual opinions. All the government has to do is count, and it can even install machines to do that and make it a streamlined process.
For an example of democracy, analyze the current events in France. There were several million (source: news) people protesting, yet Sarkozy sent the special police against them. Why? Don't their wishes count too? Nope, because France is a democracy and if, for example, group A with 4 million people protests, all it takes is group B with at least 4 million and one people and group B wins.
If you are interested in what else Badnarik has to say, there is a whole Constitution class of his (40+ videos) on youtube.
Conclusion on the USA politics: Nihil novum sub sole + Show Spoiler +
On November 04 2010 11:37 Almin wrote: The US elections are so corrupt.
There's 2 parties: Republicans and Democrats.
Republicans say they want tax cuts for the middle class, but they also want tax cuts for the top wage earners ie Millionaires and Billionaires. They say they are for the middle class, but they want to give tax cuts to the rich? And refuse to give to middle class until these millionaires and billionaires also get it. Republicans also refused to vote to force BP Officials to be under Oath. What reason can that be? They are paid by the lobbiests and big companies through campaign donations.
There's a reason why 97% of all political donations to Republicans come from millionaires and billionaires and quite the opposite for the democrats. Who really cares about the middle class? Neither. Both try to get reelected
Democrats: Paint Republicans as insane religious nuts, some are, but not all of them.
As I'm in America, I literally saw campaign television ads every 4-5commercials for months by Republicans and Democrats but mainly republicans. Where are they getting this money from? Big companies that control them.
Why not cut taxes for the multibillion dollar companies. If you do a 1% tax cut on a 100billion dollar company they would save 1 Billion dollars, in our current economy it takes aprox 70k to employ a 40k worker. 1 billion divided by 70k is >14k potential jobs per company, And if any community knows how much the worker is worth it would be the sc community. To be honest companies aren't going to take a 1% cut on their wallets, they are going to raise the prices and reduce staff (which reduces customer service) to make up for profits lost.
............
Are you serious? Really? Do you REALLY think that our gracious rich overlords just gift us with jobs? Have you ever heard of a concept called demand? How about capacity utilization? Do you frequently watch Ron Paul and\or Peter Schiff videos on Youtube?
Why yes, I have heard of demand, question really should be HAVE YOU HEARD OF CAPITALISM??? You see it's this ideal that you can buy and sell w/out government interferance, maxamize profit how you see fit and spend your money on what you want.
A small time example would be: John opened up a restaurant in san diego, CA. He started off with his Managers, kitchen crew, a handful of waitresses and a couple greaters/bussboys. His business sees great success and he decides to open another location to make more money, guess what.. HE NEEDS MORE PEOPLE, If you don't think major corporations didn't ramp up their staff when the bush tax cuts were put into effect then you should see a specialist about that brain damage you have.
On November 04 2010 11:37 Almin wrote: The US elections are so corrupt.
There's 2 parties: Republicans and Democrats.
Republicans say they want tax cuts for the middle class, but they also want tax cuts for the top wage earners ie Millionaires and Billionaires. They say they are for the middle class, but they want to give tax cuts to the rich? And refuse to give to middle class until these millionaires and billionaires also get it. Republicans also refused to vote to force BP Officials to be under Oath. What reason can that be? They are paid by the lobbiests and big companies through campaign donations.
There's a reason why 97% of all political donations to Republicans come from millionaires and billionaires and quite the opposite for the democrats. Who really cares about the middle class? Neither. Both try to get reelected
Democrats: Paint Republicans as insane religious nuts, some are, but not all of them.
As I'm in America, I literally saw campaign television ads every 4-5commercials for months by Republicans and Democrats but mainly republicans. Where are they getting this money from? Big companies that control them.
Why not cut taxes for the multibillion dollar companies. If you do a 1% tax cut on a 100billion dollar company they would save 1 Billion dollars, in our current economy it takes aprox 70k to employ a 40k worker. 1 billion divided by 70k is >14k potential jobs per company, And if any community knows how much the worker is worth it would be the sc community. To be honest companies aren't going to take a 1% cut on their wallets, they are going to raise the prices and reduce staff (which reduces customer service) to make up for profits lost.
............
Are you serious? Really? Do you REALLY think that our gracious rich overlords just gift us with jobs? Have you ever heard of a concept called demand? How about capacity utilization? Do you frequently watch Ron Paul and\or Peter Schiff videos on Youtube?
Why yes, I have heard of demand, question really should be HAVE YOU HEARD OF CAPITALISM??? You see it's this ideal that you can buy and sell w/out government interferance, maxamize profit how you see fit and spend your money on what you want.
A small time example would be: John opened up a restaurant in san diego, CA. He started off with his Managers, kitchen crew, a handful of waitresses and a couple greaters/bussboys. His business sees great success and he decides to open another location to make more money, guess what.. HE NEEDS MORE PEOPLE, If you don't think major corporations didn't ramp up their staff when the bush tax cuts were put into effect then you should see a specialist about that brain damage you have.
Empirically speaking Bush's tax cuts were terrible for unemployment, especially considering the hit the Federal Government took on the deficit.
I can't speak for all Australians, of course, but as a citizen this is my perspective.
The Good:
One thing which is immediately obvious in both American political rhetoric and practice is the respect for negative rights. Property rights, freedom of speech, the right to own firearms. No other country in the world has such an unwavering respect for these rights. The French and Belgian governments outlawing the wearing of certain clothes, the German government outlawing National Socialist symbols and icons, the Australian government censoring and monitoring various forms of media and not to mention, sedition laws. The politics of other Western countries are rather pathetic and authoritarian when compared to American politics.
Party discipline. Another "difference" in American politics is the lack of party discipline. American politicians seem to have greater freedom to vote with an opposing political party. Most other Western countries maintain strict party discipline which forbids most crossings of the floor. This gives, I believe, American politicians much more leeway to vote for their constituency rather than with the party line. A good thing in general for democracy.
Tolerance. While America, like every other Western democracy, has plenty of bigots, racists and xenophobes it remains far less marred by the overt and fanatical xenophobia which pervades European and Australian politics. Populist rhetoric about being Europe being turned into an Islamic Republic, the literal hatred of the Roma, or in Australia, the rebirth of Yellow Peril is far less potent in American political rhetoric. Yes, you have all sorts of trouble with Central and South American immigration, and there is a lot of Islamophobia, but it doesn't translate into the creation of racist political parties like Geert Wilders political party, the UK's BNP or real political action like Switzerland forbidding the construction of minarets, etc. America's republican ideals seem to act as a kind of ward against such xenophobia. Where as Europe and Australia's construction of their histories and ideals as being built upon ethnicity and a shared collective experience rather than free and equal citizenry makes them more susceptible to xenophobia (and this is even more so the case in many Asian nations who possess this trait in even stronger degrees). And let's not even the mention the fact that America has a black President. This is still remarkable considering the institutionalised racism in America's recent history.
Arrogance. American arrogance is sincere. It's just straight out "America is the greatest country in the world". European arrogance is more insidious. It's derisive "You uncivilised lout. Where is your cultural refinement".
PBS. Thank God America has something equivalent to the BBC, Deutsche Welle, etc.which actually provides real news, not populist rubbish.
The Bad:
Religion. The role religion plays in American politics is just astonishing and frightening. Even from the simple request for a deity to bless their country - "God bless America" - to hysterical rhetoric about Christian ideals which influences a wide range of "issues" like abortion and the inane school "science" debates is truly horrifying.
Economic equality. America's meritocracy, while laudable, has a nasty edge. If the people at the top are there because they worked hard, the people at the bottom are there because they're lazy. In other Western countries wealth inequality isn't seen as a result of some people working harder than others, but as a result of structural inequalities which work to favour some and disadvantage others. Hence they have a comprehensive welfare system which guarantees everyone a decent standard of living. The lack of universal health care, the relatively sparse unemployment income support and the extremely high costs of higher education, from a moral perspective, make America look like a cruel and unforgiving society. That said, American philanthropy is impressive. But it doesn't provide what are considered to be the basic necessities to its entire population. It also appears kind of condescending. The idea that the disadvantaged have to rely on the good will and generosity of the better off rather than have their basic requirements guaranteed by law seems repugnant.
Fox News. Little needs to be said here. Political pile paraded as "news", while amusing, is also frightening.
On November 04 2010 11:03 TheMonkeyMon wrote: The rich want the conservatives in power, the poor want the liberals in power, and both sides will beat each other to death to keep their money.
Unless you think that that about 50% of the country is rich and 50% of the country is poor, how can this statement be true? This is a very old way of thinking that was never really accurate.
On November 04 2010 11:21 bumatlarge wrote: Politics? We kicked nazis in the face, stared down the commies from all sides (at once!), single handedly disarmed those psychopathic middle eastern terrorists, and go saved haiti with pure mouth to mouth. We like getting attention, and the world would stop dead and be in shambles without us. If we need to be 'incorrect' to do so, we'll do it anyway. You call certain things we do hypocrisy? Just a synonym for delivering justice! And we are all god's creatures, nobody is better then anyone else, we are just faster at being the best we can be.
They best part is half of me really feels this way. What meager existence will you Europeans claim in our shadow. Behold my cape of stars and stripes!
What??? i don't even...
You sure did some of the things you described here, but you dont ever mention a why or a how? Are you that short-minded?
Kicked the nazis in the face because if the US didnt, they would come at them much stronger (not the only reason obv, but the main reason) , the Sovjets never really where a threat, just for keeping up the good old american tradition of bestowing fear onto the people to keep them dumb/ignorant and the Middle East lol dont even get me started, oil is the main reason you came there in the first place, messed up an already tense region, throw isreal which you guys support(now thats a real rogue state) into the mix and there you have your psychokillers...
Now whos talking hypocrisy?
I am no hater, just a realist
Edit: and no were not all Gods creatures, were all smart monkeys minus hair
On November 04 2010 13:01 DoubleReed wrote:Population is very relevant. You have to put in very expensive organizations to keep the system in place and keep it working for everyone. The larger the organization, the more expensive per capita its going to be. Really, in any economic model population is a very important facet of it. You can't just ignore population.
That's incorrect. A bigger system will cost more, but as it has more participants it has more money to operate. If anything the bigger the health care system, the cheaper it will be ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale ).
On November 04 2010 14:10 CuttyFlam wrote: What??? i don't even...
You sure did some of the things you described here, but you dont ever mention a why or a how? Are you that short-minded?
As an American with crazy right-wing leanings, perhaps I can explain our mentality and the source of the right wing surge in America.
There is a large contingent of people in America and abroad that think America should be more like Sweden and offer more social benefits. Actually you can read editorials in American magazines from 100 years ago that say this. But those people should remember that Sweden has about half the population of New York City. The United States Government is the largest bureaucracy in the world, it has the largest budget and payroll of any entity in the world, and as a result our public sector tends to be more wasteful and less efficient at delivering goods than in other countries.
Because of this Republicans advocate that more public functions should be relegated to the state level (California would still be one of the 10 largest economies in the world, were it a country). This is how the United States was originally designed but it has lost that design over time, mainly due to Democratic politicians like FDR.
Also, a large number of Americans like capitalism and see economic freedom as the source of our prosperity. The Democrats are the party of the anti-capitalists and the unions.
My state of California is close to bankruptcy. It has a large budget deficit and struggles to meet its debt obligations. The Democratic party has controlled both houses of the state legislature for 38 of the last 40 years. In that time they have voted very generous pay and benefits for members of the public sector unions. In return, the public sector unions give over 90% of their campaign contributions to the Democratic party. Since Californians hate Republicans, they think about Republicans like Europeans do, there is no chance that voters will break the vicious cycle. It is very likely that California will end up defaulting on its public debt.
In many ways the budget crisis in California mirrors the budget crisis happening in many European countries. This makes sense because California politics is basically European when you look at its left lean and strong union influence.
Many Americans see California, and for that matter Greece, France, and Great Britain, and we worry that the Democratic Party will lead the entire country into a debt crisis. Our annual deficit is already twice the size of the Netherlands entire GDP. So we elect politicians who say they will cut back on federal spending, which is the source of the Tea Party.
In America, many of us are quite amazed at the extent of the left-wing in Europe. We see that the French government raised the retirement age by 2 years because they had to, otherwise the country would go bankrupt, and French citizens riot in the street and demand their handouts! Demanding handouts is very unAmerican. We believe that a person should take responsibility for himself and only seek help if he falls on hard times. Many people on the right-wing believe that socialism corrupts the morality and spirit of a people, it makes them soft and dependent, infantilized. We see the riots in France and this confirms our negative views of socialism.
EPT
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