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What obama inherited was not bushes economic policy but his foreign policy and guess what....war is expensive.
I thought the exact financial markets that started the credit crunch were those that were deregulated under Bush. Like separating normal banks from investment banks and deregulating investment banks completely to the point they weren't even legally banks anymore.
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im not sure what u mean by holy crusade to end socialsim. . . we didnt want communism in america during the cold war, and we didnt want (much) government control after the revolution. where is that wrong?
also the "crusade" isnt over (if it ever existed, agian i dont understand your post) we have elections to try to inforce/deter socialism at home. as far as the rest of the world is concerned, countries conquer countries and we are not in a position to be conquered by any (socialist) country. so if France wants socialism fine, they pose no threat to us (at least not like the ussr). Thus we dont seek to enforce free markets around the world because we are secure now? if i understood your post i could respond better the "this" i am allegedly believing.
Lol. Do you really believe "this"?- romantic
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U.S politics are a joke.
It's obscured and messed up by large lobbyists and corporations controlling the media and the money and propaganda machine. It's made up of large extremist groups of both democrrats and republicans, religious nutcases, it had very little moderate middleground.
Americans love the personal interests and style of their presidents, rather than loving their skills and abilities to actually run the country. It seems very strange to me being a foreigner.
I mean, what matters most in politics ... is.. politics.. right? Seems logical.
But it seems to many times it's more concerned with bashing the other stuff, instead of working together and looking constructively at it all, going on comprimises.
I'm glad im not a U.S citizen. I would feel screwed.
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"How do foreigners view american politics" 90% U.S. posters.
Suggestion for new thread: "How self important are americans" ?
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On November 04 2010 10:40 Savio wrote: I remember while spending some time in Ecuador during the Iraq war, someone once asked me if I was worried that the Iraqis would bomb my home. I was shocked that they were so uninformed about reality and I realized that they had been hearing crazy stuff on the news.
It's more that you are being uninformed. Americans were really made the believe Iraq was a threat. How else could Bush justify a war? Yes, the whole world laughed with amazement at how the US people was made to believe Iraq was going to bomb/attack them by US politicians so much so that support for a war war created.
And most of those people were scared, especially those in Latin America, as they have been the victim from many US attacks in the past.
It must have been really hard to believe for that Ecuadorian and that's why he asked. And you call him uninformed? Hahaha...
You really live in a different reality, I guess.
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On November 04 2010 10:48 methematics wrote: im not sure what u mean by holy crusade to end socialsim. . . we didnt want communism in america during the cold war, and we didnt want (much) government control after the revolution. where is that wrong?
also the "crusade" isnt over (if it ever existed, agian i dont understand your post) we have elections to try to inforce/deter socialism at home. as far as the rest of the world is concerned, countries conquer countries and we are not in a position to be conquered by any (socialist) country. so if France wants socialism fine, they pose no threat to us (at least not like the ussr). Thus we dont seek to enforce free markets around the world because we are secure now? if i understood your post i could respond better the "this" i am allegedly believing.
Lol. Do you really believe "this"?- romantic Oh, ok. What is the biggest threat to America now if not socialism?
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On November 04 2010 10:45 Xtar wrote:Show nested quote +What obama inherited was not bushes economic policy but his foreign policy and guess what....war is expensive. I thought the exact financial markets that started the credit crunch were those that were deregulated under Bush. Like separating normal banks from investment banks and deregulating investment banks completely to the point they weren't even legally banks anymore.
You sound like a perfect politician. That is the answer according to the "experts" but those same experts said we would never have a recession again. Deregulation is a good thing. Incentivizing risk is a bad thing. By lowering interest rates to basically 0% the government encouraged banks to make riskier investments than normal. The economy itself can never lend itself to a depression, it always takes an outside force (like government) to do this. Deregulation itself encourages decision making. When banks can decide how to invest, they will make the best investments out of their own interest for capital. When the government tells you how to invest (or invests for you in the case of freddie and fannie) then that becomes a problem because government has no interest in profits, only tax dollars.
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It sort of just reaffirms my political bias and my belief that the parliamentary system is infinitely better than the congressional one. Just me.
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On November 04 2010 10:22 darmousseh wrote: I seriously don't understand why most nations are so liberal. I would have thought they would have learned the lesson by now that government isn't good at anything except taking your money, regulating your life and getting rich. Seriously.
United states does have something unique though, it is the largest democracy in the world and as such it is significantly harder to manage than a smaller nation like the UK. Conditions and environments are so diverse across the united states because of ethnicity (i'm half middle eastern), location, and economics. To try to set a standard is almost impossible. I might be an advocate for small federal government, but i believe that individual states and cities should be able to regulate themselves freely to attract people or businesses. If one state has high taxes, then people will leave to another state.
As far as the moral issues in the united states, politicians can't do anything anyway. Most of the major moral decisions have been made by the supreme court. The only thing the legislative branch can do is force the issue. Judicial opinion changes over time depending on the overall feeling of the nation, but in general it is a slow process. Many americans themselves simply don't care about politics to even understand the issues. About 80% of them (which was the percentage in california that voted against a 0.1% tax increase on cars to pay for parks just 2 days ago) just say "don't increase my taxes and you have my vote".
The best way for foreigners to think about the united states is imagine if the EU decided to have a government that had the power to override the individual nations. Each nation would be looking out for its own best interest and there would be tons of ethical conflicts everywhere. That is basically the united states in a nutshell.
India is the largest democracy in the world.
@Savio:And what would those values be?Family,moral ground?That's american only! Anyway Europe dominated the world for more than two thousand years with our *values*,it's time to change yours if you want to continue to be in global position;)
@MoltkeWarding: If you accept that the end of politics is not politics?..... We(Eu's at least)find it disgraceful,because the fact that someone takes it up the ass or has been divorced 7 times doesnt make him a bad economist/diplomat/whatever. It just distracts the people,and gets moron elected people *they want to have a beer with him*.
And finally @ Savio,while you had that experience in Ecuador,i had an interesting one in USA: It was during the Iraq war too,two random guys that knew i was french come up to me and ask me why i loved bin laden. After further discussion i found out they just assumed i was a bin laden fan.....because i was french o_O There are morons/uninformed people everywhere.You just happen to have some of the worst in US.
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On November 04 2010 10:53 Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 10:48 methematics wrote: im not sure what u mean by holy crusade to end socialsim. . . we didnt want communism in america during the cold war, and we didnt want (much) government control after the revolution. where is that wrong?
also the "crusade" isnt over (if it ever existed, agian i dont understand your post) we have elections to try to inforce/deter socialism at home. as far as the rest of the world is concerned, countries conquer countries and we are not in a position to be conquered by any (socialist) country. so if France wants socialism fine, they pose no threat to us (at least not like the ussr). Thus we dont seek to enforce free markets around the world because we are secure now? if i understood your post i could respond better the "this" i am allegedly believing.
Lol. Do you really believe "this"?- romantic Oh, ok. What is the biggest threat to America now if not socialism?
The communists are coming to take away your gun and or bible ! They're probably already hiding under your bed. You're fucked, dude.
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Canada11367 Posts
On November 04 2010 08:50 Scruffy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 08:45 clementdudu wrote:On November 04 2010 08:22 Scruffy wrote:On November 04 2010 08:19 Severedevil wrote:On November 04 2010 08:08 Krigwin wrote: Outside of the US everyone thinks the Democrats have the right idea and a lot of the Republicans/Tea Party are batshit crazy or even outright evil by other countries' standards. Meanwhile inside the US the Democrats have been painted as some kind of evil European Socialist party and ends up losing tons of seats to said Republicans. Then in this thread outsiders are claimed to be "US bashing" and "biased" or "misinformed".
So what's wrong with this picture? American corporations aren't pumping billions of dollars of brainwashing into your countries. (Well, they probably are, but not for U.S. elections.) On November 04 2010 08:09 Scruffy wrote: From what it sounds like, everyone (foreigners) believes what the mainstream American liberal media wants them to believe. Both funny and sad.
Also "Republicans are Uber rasist Christian and they will always be outraged when someone presents another view of an issue".
Kind of like Obama's preacher of 20 years, Reverend Wright. His Black Liberation Theology really does it for me. Liberals are a paragon of "bipartisanship", as evidenced by cramming healthcare down the American people's respective throats Edit: with no Republican input. Listening to Repubs and then throwing them out of the closed door meeting doesn't count, sorry. Thank you, this is a perfect example. I am so SORRY. I must have gotten my facts wrong. Reverend Wright is a respectable man, and far from a racist. When he preaches such gems as, "not God bless America, God d*** America", it just makes me all warm and tingly inside. Those feisty corporations, they had me all along. You realize that the all god bless america thing is plain ridiculous right? Even though i dont think he said that for those reasons,in the end if god exists(lol) he's no more american than ethiopian,doesnt care more about prayers of blond little child in big houses with a picture of mom dad and the sun hanging on the fridge,than those of a black hobo leaving in a mud hut. Well, you aren't from America, which is a predominantly Christian country, so you wouldn't understand. IE. its very offensive to most of us what he said. Edit: Even if you aren't religious, its pretty bad to hate your own country.
Did you ever listen to the entire sermon? I did. And quite frankly, it really wasn't that bad. It was not about hating your country and everything to do with calling out America for it's injustices past and present. I think that's totally legitimate. Ever since the reformation, particularly the Anabaptist movement called for separation of church and state. It's never the church's job to condone acts of injustice. The church prays for the country, but doesn't support the country come hell or high water. Unthinking patriotism has no place in the church- the church doesn't belong to any particular country.
However, the media take a 5 second blip from a sermon and turn the man into some sort of raving lunatic. Sermons, even more so then regular speeches, should be considered in context of the individual sermon and the church itself. Speeches are meant to be taken in sound bites, sermons aren't. The entire Wright controversy was an overblown media hype, in my opinion.
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I and i think many people in holland see it as laughable, stupid and horrendously corrupt.
although the stupid part is very debatable. Immorral and devious is an alternative explanation. Kind of depends on if you believe people like george bush really had the power in the US, or if he is just a puppet.
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On November 04 2010 10:36 methematics wrote: socialism/fascism/communism
oshit did you just group socialism, facism and communism as "essentially the same thing"
sure they're the same... if you don't know what they are
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On November 04 2010 10:55 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 10:53 Romantic wrote:On November 04 2010 10:48 methematics wrote: im not sure what u mean by holy crusade to end socialsim. . . we didnt want communism in america during the cold war, and we didnt want (much) government control after the revolution. where is that wrong?
also the "crusade" isnt over (if it ever existed, agian i dont understand your post) we have elections to try to inforce/deter socialism at home. as far as the rest of the world is concerned, countries conquer countries and we are not in a position to be conquered by any (socialist) country. so if France wants socialism fine, they pose no threat to us (at least not like the ussr). Thus we dont seek to enforce free markets around the world because we are secure now? if i understood your post i could respond better the "this" i am allegedly believing.
Lol. Do you really believe "this"?- romantic Oh, ok. What is the biggest threat to America now if not socialism? The communists are coming to take away your gun and or bible ! They're probably already hiding under your bed. You're fucked, dude. We ANNIHILATED!!! Communism. Now we've got to worry about dem terrorists who are poised to invade along with the Venezuelan Super Socialist Army at any moment now.
I am curious as to what methematics thinks is the biggest threat, though.
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On November 04 2010 09:03 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 08:51 Blondinbengt wrote: I don't really pay any attention to the Swedish media so I have no clue what they have to say about american politics. But just based on personal experience, the thing I hear other swedes comment on the most is the voting system in the US, more specifically that they think it's old and just plain stupid.
In general it's just a lot of ''lol, look at those silly americans''-stuff, like making fun of the crazies like Palin or being confused over that abortion and other religous issues are relevant to politics. Actually, I find it interesting so many Europeans in this thread have mentioned abortion. The last time the federal government made a big deal about it was in 2003, when they banned partial-birth abortion (it wasn't even controversial). IIRC, a lot European countries don't even allow abortions at the third trimester. Abortion is one of those non-issues that get some Americans riled up for uniquely American reasons. I think it has a lot to do with the political climate of the 60s and 70s, when you had a lot of feminists taking it up as their cause, and naturally pushback from those who viewed the counter-culture movement with disguest. Then when the Supreme Court issued Roe v. Wade, naturally a lot of people felt it was an illegitimate, non-democratic decision. A lot of those feelings have carried over 30 years later, though much of it is dissipated.
It's not that we think abortion is the central issue in american politics, that was just an example. What I was going for was more along the lines of, to us, it's absurd that anything religious is relevant to politics.
I don't follow american politics that much, but when it's time for an election I watch some of it. I remember watching an interview with Sarah Palin (think it was on CNN) and one of the questions was 'Where do you stand on abortion?', to me as a swede that's a completely and utterly absurd question to ask a politician, because to me (and essentially everyone I know) that's just irrelevant. I'm interested in what the politican is going to do about problem A and situation B, I don't care about their personal stance on things like abortion or prayer in schools (it doesn't have to be a religious issue, these are just examples.
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On November 04 2010 10:57 Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 10:55 Monsen wrote:On November 04 2010 10:53 Romantic wrote:On November 04 2010 10:48 methematics wrote: im not sure what u mean by holy crusade to end socialsim. . . we didnt want communism in america during the cold war, and we didnt want (much) government control after the revolution. where is that wrong?
also the "crusade" isnt over (if it ever existed, agian i dont understand your post) we have elections to try to inforce/deter socialism at home. as far as the rest of the world is concerned, countries conquer countries and we are not in a position to be conquered by any (socialist) country. so if France wants socialism fine, they pose no threat to us (at least not like the ussr). Thus we dont seek to enforce free markets around the world because we are secure now? if i understood your post i could respond better the "this" i am allegedly believing.
Lol. Do you really believe "this"?- romantic Oh, ok. What is the biggest threat to America now if not socialism? The communists are coming to take away your gun and or bible ! They're probably already hiding under your bed. You're fucked, dude. We ANNIHILATED!!! Communism.
No you didn't. I hear your current president is a african muslim communist. Believe me- there's no hope for you.
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Darmousseh, you can add another item to the list. Foreigners think US politics is crazy for rejecting that deregulation helped cause the financial crisis. Here outside of the US we have these regulations in place exactly to prevent the scams and stuff they pulled. It wasn't just the low interest rate, which is silly in itself. But the whole idea of sub-prime mortgage securitization was basically fraud.
You either have to have a system where this can't happen in principle or you need to put regulations in place. And as long as US politicians won't accept this, the US will eventually create a new crisis that will damage the rest of the world.
Ooh and abortion and related issues like stem cell research are huge issues for many Americans. I think like 1 in 5 believe rapture will happen in their lifetime. Given those beliefs it is only natural for them to hold these absurd notions? How does global warming matter in that case? It doesn't. What does matter is how many abortions there are.
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I think problem no.1 is that people in the US at least gobble down whatever the media forcefeeds them. Fox New's "OBAMA IS SOCIALIST" propoganda, or the more liberal networks that potray all republicans as crazy people, there is no room for any compromise when you view your opponent as insane/evil. I won't comment on my own political beliefs, I just wish others would realize that sometimes compromise is neccessary, as is reasoned, rational debate.
To Europeans: How big of an issue is money in your politics? In America, its honestly what it always comes down to. The rich want the conservatives in power, the poor want the liberals in power, and both sides will beat each other to death to keep their money.
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On November 04 2010 10:54 darmousseh wrote:
When banks can decide how to invest, they will make the best investments out of their own interest for capital.. You've gone off the religious deep end. You couldn't even get Greenspan to make such a claim anymore.
New Deal regulations worked remarkable well for many decades. T\F?
On November 04 2010 11:00 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 10:57 Romantic wrote:On November 04 2010 10:55 Monsen wrote:On November 04 2010 10:53 Romantic wrote:On November 04 2010 10:48 methematics wrote: im not sure what u mean by holy crusade to end socialsim. . . we didnt want communism in america during the cold war, and we didnt want (much) government control after the revolution. where is that wrong?
also the "crusade" isnt over (if it ever existed, agian i dont understand your post) we have elections to try to inforce/deter socialism at home. as far as the rest of the world is concerned, countries conquer countries and we are not in a position to be conquered by any (socialist) country. so if France wants socialism fine, they pose no threat to us (at least not like the ussr). Thus we dont seek to enforce free markets around the world because we are secure now? if i understood your post i could respond better the "this" i am allegedly believing.
Lol. Do you really believe "this"?- romantic Oh, ok. What is the biggest threat to America now if not socialism? The communists are coming to take away your gun and or bible ! They're probably already hiding under your bed. You're fucked, dude. We ANNIHILATED!!! Communism. No you didn't. I hear your current president is a african muslim communist. Believe me- there's no hope for you. Aw, Crap. Now I've heard that from two places; You and Glen Beck! I have awoke to my worst nightmare!
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On November 04 2010 11:01 Xtar wrote: Darmousseh, you can add another item to the list. Foreigners think US politics is crazy for rejecting that deregulation helped cause the financial crisis. Here outside of the US we have these regulations in place exactly to prevent the scams and stuff they pulled. It wasn't just the low interest rate, which is silly in itself. But the whole idea of sub-prime mortgage securitization was basically fraud.
You either have to have a system where this can't happen in principle or you need to put regulations in place. And as long as US politicians won't accept this, the US will eventually create a new crisis that will damage the rest of the world.
Here in the united states we have something called laws which prevent fraud and theft. Regulating business practices never prevented these things.
Also i am part of a minority view here in the US. Most of the people in the US here believe it was the banks faults.
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