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On October 02 2010 22:06 Qwertify wrote:
People don't know China. One part is capitalistic, the other part, the greater part, socialist. Usually people are afraid of having all their hard earned money taken away and given for social issues they think are not even that effective or important. Here it is the other way around. China works 90% of its work force, in hard labor, or sells it out, and the other 10%, the capitalist side benefits. So if you go to China, you probably are seeing the nicer 10%. You probably won't see their crimes against Tibet. You probably won't see the socialist difficult conditions of the average worker. You also probably won't see or feel the strict censorship and control of peoples thoughts and ideas about the country.
Also if you know someone from China, they are also probably from that 10%. Doesn't make them a bad person in any way at all, but it is just another thing to take into account when you judge China.
True. When I was studying oversea. I see more patriotic act from my friends oversea than from China.
The first thing is most of them are from a different social class. They are the elites and are enjoying the social privilege which benefits them the most.
The other thing is the Chinese government treat their oversea citizens better, obviously...And people living oversea feel more patriotic emotional need than the feelings of actual misery life of average citizens.
Now most Chinese have become cynics, and a large part of the average people become whiners and haters.
The government overall is bad, also they could hardly draw positive force from their fellow citizens.
All these make positive change both from government or society a very difficult thing to come.
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On October 02 2010 22:17 WiSaGaN wrote:
The other thing is the Chinese government treat their oversea citizens better, obviously...
I have no idea where you get this idea from, but when i need to deal with the Chinese government generally I go to the embassy. Its shit treatment all around just like anywhere else, and coming back into the country through customs...I actually see foreigners getting better service.
As for the normal populace "suffering" my dad's side of the family comes from a peasant background (Gansu province man, its poor out there) but they actually seem more content and happy then most people I know here. Dunno why everyones got the mentality more material goods equals more happiness as most people there are just content with the social stability (Not me though, I've been westernized, got that social ladder to climb -_-)
Oh yeah, in regards to why most of us overseas are more patriotic its because of the racism nearly all of us experience in the new country and when your constantly getting abused you tend to become more defensive, not some BS like the government treats us better.
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On October 02 2010 23:12 yandere991 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 22:17 WiSaGaN wrote:
The other thing is the Chinese government treat their oversea citizens better, obviously... I have no idea where you get this idea from, but when i need to deal with the Chinese government generally I go to the embassy. Its shit treatment all around just like anywhere else, and coming back into the country through customs...I actually see foreigners getting better service. As for the normal populace "suffering" my dad's side of the family comes from a peasant background (Gansu province man, its poor out there) but they actually seem more content and happy then most people I know here. Dunno why everyones got the mentality more material goods equals more happiness as most people there are just content with the social stability (Not me though, I've been westernized, got that social ladder to climb -_-) Oh yeah, in regards to why most of us overseas are more patriotic its because of the racism nearly all of us experience in the new country and when your constantly getting abused you tend to become more defensive, not some BS like the government treats us better.
Sorry. I don't know about Australia. But most so-called "discrimination"s are self-fulfilling prophecies. And I have seen a lot more angry oversea Chinese than you. It's common, and I will not try to argue with you.
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On October 02 2010 23:27 WiSaGaN wrote:
Sorry. I don't know about Australia. But most so-called "discrimination"s are self-fulfilling prophecies. And I have seen a lot more angry oversea Chinese than you. It's common, and I will not try to argue with you.
Yes, you won't really feel the effects of discrimination unless you let it get to you, we all know that and accept that. But to say it doesn't leave some resentment (even a tiny bit) is kind of unreasonable.
Did I sound angry? Was trying my best to give the impression of frustration =S
Don't see whats so unique about Chinese nationalism anyways its nearly the same with every country as you learn this in high school fast enough. A group of people of the same nationality joking and bashing their own culture is normal but take one of different race to join in and watch the fireworks fly.
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So to close this thread he finally got it.
I'll be brief as i already wrote way too much in this thread:
- good for him personally, this way he might be safe from worse sanctions.
- china and the west really don't understand each other. Giving the nobel to this man won't make democracy progress in China. It will even strenghen the public opinion feelings about western interference in domestic issues. China will never learn that threatening the west only works with petty politicians.
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Smells like the beginning of a new age of polarization.. or i guess US ppl started the chinafears a long time ago.
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China is awesome and on the other hand so fucked up and anachronistic
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On October 08 2010 19:22 eiswand wrote:
China is awesome and on the other hand so fucked up and anachronistic
That is what you get when you mix an awesome culture with a frightenlingly effective totalitarian system.
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Liu Xiaobo actually won lol
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To summarise the reaction, it is being condemned by the Chinese government and praised by the West. This is quite the predictable response, of course. China has described it as 'blasphemy' against the concept of the Nobel Prize, while Western commentators go so far as to keep calling for Liu's release.
Sauce: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/08/world-reacts-or-doesnt-to-nobel-announcement/
I think some of the above posters are looking through the glass quite correctly when they say this will probably not do any good to relations between West and East, especially China and Norway as China has specifically referenced. The British foreign secretary has used the oppurtunity to continue calling for Liu's release, predictably as has the Dalai Lama, and if the Chinese government spins it the right way then it could very well be seen as the West continuing to meddle in Chinese affairs.
Still, it seems quite beyond doubt to me that the man should not be suffering as he is for his supposed 'crime', and anything that could potentially make his life easier I look upon favourably.
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the guy wins....
what now?
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Haha China never forgives and never forgets, Norway would be ill-advised to not expect blowback
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as a person of chinese-descent, i feel that what the chinese government is doing is absolutely wrong. what this guy did was absolutely heroic
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Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty.
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On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty.
Disagree wholeheartedly. Countries can do what they what within certain boundaries, but they need to respect basic civil rights in the process. If other nations want to speak up about this, good for them.
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On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty.
Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago.
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On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago.
For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today.
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The Chinese foreign ministry said giving him the prize would be against Nobel principles.
Mr Liu is serving a long prison sentence for calling for democracy and human rights in China.
I think it's China that's against Nobel principles not Nobel...wow.
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Is it true that all laurents of Chinese nationality are either in jail or in exile? It's kind of sad of how China does not produce any of them. I think the education system is at fault here.
Anyways, I think this discussion will die out soon enough.
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I don't know if I should cry or laugh at this.
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EPT
