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On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today.
I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one.
That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. I don't think the preservation of culture is worth the sacrifice of these basic rights, such as freedom of speech.
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On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east.
Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting.
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On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting.
I already know how the 'Asian miracle' happened. In Japan, it was because 'big brother' U.S. stepped in after WWII to support and westernize Japan with democracy. And I think it was better like that. Even their economy boomed because they all pulled together with the scraps they were given. Now Japan is one of the top economies in the world. Do you know how the Japanese were before WWII? Yeah...and I really don't care if I offend you. Every culture has criticism, and it's popular to hate the States right now by referring to common 'insulting' demeanor such as Americans being fat, lazy, too critical, etc...
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On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting.
Granted his choice of words was very poor, but his point is somewhat solid. (his point being the non-existent human rights in china, not "westernizing"
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On October 09 2010 02:18 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting. I already know how the 'Asian miracle' happened. In Japan, it was because 'big brother' U.S. stepped in after WWII to support and westernize Japan with democracy. And I think it was better like that. Even their economy boomed because they all pulled together with the scraps they were given. Now Japan is one of the top economies in the world. Do you know how the Japanese were before WWII? Yeah...and I really don't care if I offend you. Every culture has criticism, and it's popular to hate the States right now by referring to common 'insulting' demeanor such as Americans being fat, lazy, too critical, etc...
lol. I REALLY don't think you know your history at all if you're really insistent on this.
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On October 09 2010 02:20 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:18 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting. I already know how the 'Asian miracle' happened. In Japan, it was because 'big brother' U.S. stepped in after WWII to support and westernize Japan with democracy. And I think it was better like that. Even their economy boomed because they all pulled together with the scraps they were given. Now Japan is one of the top economies in the world. Do you know how the Japanese were before WWII? Yeah...and I really don't care if I offend you. Every culture has criticism, and it's popular to hate the States right now by referring to common 'insulting' demeanor such as Americans being fat, lazy, too critical, etc... lol. I REALLY don't think you know your history at all if you're really insistent on this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Lives_Next_Door
This is all you need to know 
And yes, I've taken several Japanese history classes and human geography helped a bit too.
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On October 09 2010 02:21 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:20 KissBlade wrote:On October 09 2010 02:18 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting. I already know how the 'Asian miracle' happened. In Japan, it was because 'big brother' U.S. stepped in after WWII to support and westernize Japan with democracy. And I think it was better like that. Even their economy boomed because they all pulled together with the scraps they were given. Now Japan is one of the top economies in the world. Do you know how the Japanese were before WWII? Yeah...and I really don't care if I offend you. Every culture has criticism, and it's popular to hate the States right now by referring to common 'insulting' demeanor such as Americans being fat, lazy, too critical, etc... lol. I REALLY don't think you know your history at all if you're really insistent on this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Lives_Next_DoorThis is all you need to know And yes, I've taken several Japanese history classes and human geography helped a bit too.
You really think that it was purely because of US's good will & "democracy" that caused Japan to prosper? You're honestly going to tell me that with a straight face after you've taken some (I assume) accredited Japanese history classes?
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On October 09 2010 02:20 xlep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting. Granted his choice of words was very poor, but his point is somewhat solid. (his point being the non-existent human rights in china, not "westernizing"
I agree that with that post, I was sloppy and lazy. Typical of an American I suppose.
However, I still think my westernization point stands valid. It's arguable that the east has been very influenced by western ideals, including democracy. Japan and Singapore are one of the main examples I can give, even though they retain their traditional Confucian values.
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On October 09 2010 02:23 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:21 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:20 KissBlade wrote:On October 09 2010 02:18 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting. I already know how the 'Asian miracle' happened. In Japan, it was because 'big brother' U.S. stepped in after WWII to support and westernize Japan with democracy. And I think it was better like that. Even their economy boomed because they all pulled together with the scraps they were given. Now Japan is one of the top economies in the world. Do you know how the Japanese were before WWII? Yeah...and I really don't care if I offend you. Every culture has criticism, and it's popular to hate the States right now by referring to common 'insulting' demeanor such as Americans being fat, lazy, too critical, etc... lol. I REALLY don't think you know your history at all if you're really insistent on this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Lives_Next_DoorThis is all you need to know And yes, I've taken several Japanese history classes and human geography helped a bit too. You really think that it was purely because of US's good will & "democracy" that caused Japan to prosper? You're honestly going to tell me that with a straight face after you've taken some (I assume) accredited Japanese history classes?
I'm not saying it's the sole reason. It wouldn't have happened, however, if the U.S. didn't step in and implement democracy and support. That can be argued, and that's how my view point is. I'm not saying the U.S. solely made Japan's miracle happen. That was only done by the Japanese people, who after WWII, took the scraps they were given and tightened together to create an absolutely phenomenal 'renaissance' of sorts. The prosperity they made in such a short time was incredible.
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Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy.
^ Money + work developed the nation. Democracy did not. Japan was quite industrialized and a foreign power before WWII.
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On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy.
I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay).
But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD.
On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
^ Money + work developed the nation. Democracy did not. Japan was quite industrialized and a foreign power before WWII.
I agree only the first two points. It was hard work from them as a group that brought prosperity. I still believe democracy has something to do with it. The new-found freedom and rights they were given must have contributed in some way.
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At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you all say. All that matters is what difference can you make when it comes to your stance on China. If you can't do anything then all of your words will be scattered of into the winds.
The internet is great at making people irritated, but then again those that get irritated or talk in condescending tones are probably irritating in real life too.
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On October 09 2010 02:18 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting. I already know how the 'Asian miracle' happened. In Japan, it was because 'big brother' U.S. stepped in after WWII to support and westernize Japan with democracy. And I think it was better like that. Do you know how the Japanese were before WWII? Yeah...and I really don't care if I offend you. Every culture has criticism, and it's popular to hate the States right now by referring to common 'insulting' demeanor such as Americans being fat, lazy, too critical, etc...
You're right dude, because saying a country's existence is meaningless and unworthy by some arbitrary standard goes over real well.
Changing with the times, what times? Democracy doesn't guarantee human rights, hello slavery, hello separate but equal, hello it took 200 years for America to elect a non-white president, hello Taiwan's fucking debacles and joke of a government and it's processes.
How were the Japanese before WW2? Strong enough to be a legitimate global power? Strong enough to be first Asian country to win a war against an European power? Yeah? The US didn't simply step in, the US fucking buried the Asian countries after WW2, think Bush's either with us or against us mentality. Go read up on the Philippines after WW2 and the events surrounding the Geneva Convention for Indochina (French-Vietnam War). You can have your independence, just as long as it's America's version of independence.
It's popular and correct to refer to the States as pretentious who thinks they know whats best for everyone when they have proved over and over again that they don't have a clue. Hello the primarily US dominated IMF and World Bank, hows your track record on helping developing countries?
So slow down, what works for one doesn't always work for another.
On topic, the fact that Lu Xiaobu is still in China is noteworthy and deserves praise, not Nobel worthy though.
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On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD.
How does this prove your point regarding Singapore as a good example of democracy? Personally, I do agree that some of their stringent laws being good punishments.
Anyway DeadlyHazard, it's fine that you support democracy and think that it has some influence in the development of a nation. However, that is opinion, not fact. You are welcome to hold it. Let's just agree to disagree =).
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On October 09 2010 02:30 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:18 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting. I already know how the 'Asian miracle' happened. In Japan, it was because 'big brother' U.S. stepped in after WWII to support and westernize Japan with democracy. And I think it was better like that. Do you know how the Japanese were before WWII? Yeah...and I really don't care if I offend you. Every culture has criticism, and it's popular to hate the States right now by referring to common 'insulting' demeanor such as Americans being fat, lazy, too critical, etc... You're right dude, because saying a country's existence is meaningless and unworthy by some arbitrary standard goes over real well. Changing with the times, what times? Democracy doesn't guarantee human rights, hello slavery, hello separate but equal, hello it took 200 years for America to elect a non-white president, hello Taiwan's fucking debacles and joke of a government and it's processes. How were the Japanese before WW2? Strong enough to be a legitimate global power? Strong enough to be first Asian country to win a war against an European power? Yeah? The US didn't simply step in, the US fucking buried the Asian countries after WW2, think Bush's either with us or against us mentality. Go read up on the Philippines after WW2 and the events surrounding the Geneva Convention for Indochina (French-Vietnam War). You can have your independence, just as long as it's America's version of independence. It's popular and correct to refer to the States as pretentious who thinks they know whats best for everyone when they have proved over and over again that they don't have a clue. Hello the primarily US dominated IMF and World Bank, hows your track record on helping developing countries? So slow down, what works for one doesn't always work for another. On topic, the fact that Lu Xiaobu is still in China is noteworthy and deserves praise, not Nobel worthy though.
Yeah, the U.S. might have 'bullied' other Asian countries. This including Japan, but hey, at least they gave them a headstart and support afterwards....and not to mention, Japan striked first on U.S. soil. And yes, I agree that politics in America can be a mess. I still don't think you can call Americans arrogant and all the other cliche demeanors being used by other countries to insult us. Our leaders aren't necessarily representative of our people, as I know many people within the States hate the Bush family. I'd actually say most people do....at least I'd hope.
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On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:
I agree only the first two points. It was hard work from them as a group that brought prosperity. I still believe democracy has something to do with it. The new-found freedom and rights they were given must have contributed in some way.
Sure, then that must mean China's prosperity must have been given to them by some alien source.
Kissblade is right on with the globalization aspect and some people love to walk in that gray space claiming some examples as westernization.
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On October 09 2010 02:32 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD. How does this prove your point regarding Singapore as a good example of democracy? Personally, I do agree that some of their stringent laws being good punishments. Anyway DeadlyHazard, it's fine that you support democracy and think that it has some influence in the development of a nation. However, that is opinion, not fact. You are welcome to hold it. Let's just agree to disagree =).
Yeah I didn't really provide any examples of why Singapore is better off with democracy. But I'm not sure what a better system would be for it, TBH.
I think your opinions are valid and I'm not necessarily arguing my opinion on the matter. I'm really just trying to fuel some debate here to see if we can come to some sort of conclusions and see any general truths. I'm trying to get both sides here. Is westernization a good thing in the east? Or is globalization a good thing for that matter?
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On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD.
There are far bigger problems in Singapore than just some funky laws.
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On October 09 2010 02:38 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD. There are far bigger problems in Singapore than just some funky laws.
You're probably right. I've never lived there. I plan on going to school there in a year, possibly. That probably still won't be enough time to see its problems. I can only say from visiting, I haven't done much research on Singaporean politics or any of the sorts. That's why I should shy away from arguing any point there.
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Japan did strike first on US soil. But US did also cause it by oil embargo-ing Japan (Japan was solely reliant on US oil for it's war efforts). Personally I support the US's move on that endeavor but essentially even though the US was "neutral", it was quite involved in the war by then. The US certainly did put work into developing Japan after WWII, I wouldn't deny that. However, it was also done for the strict purpose of securing a democratic block against Communism. The thing is, people really don't think about just WHY the US hates Communism or other non democratic governments so much. Because those in power wants to keep the power. Blargh that's why I hate politicians in general, it's never about the best for the people, it's about the best for them. Even if Socialism, Communism, Democracy can borrow elements to benefit their nation, they wouldn't do it.
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EPT
