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On October 09 2010 02:40 KissBlade wrote:
Japan did strike first on US soil. But US did also cause it by oil embargo-ing Japan (Japan was solely reliant on US oil for it's war efforts). Personally I support the US's move on that endeavor but essentially even though the US was "neutral", it was quite involved in the war by then. The US certainly did put work into developing Japan after WWII, I wouldn't deny that. However, it was also done for the strict purpose of securing a democratic block against Communism. The thing is, people really don't think about just WHY the US hates Communism or other non democratic governments so much. Because those in power wants to keep the power. Blargh that's why I hate politicians in general, it's never about the best for the people, it's about the best for them. Even if Socialism, Communism, Democracy can borrow elements to benefit their nation, they wouldn't do it.
I have to totally agree with you on this. I HATE politics. That's why it gets me all angry when I read posts, even if I agree with them. An ideal world to me would be one without politics TBH, lol. Any system has so many flaws and there's always corruption....humans turn everything into a double-sided blade.
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On October 09 2010 02:40 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:38 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD. There are far bigger problems in Singapore than just some funky laws. You're probably right. I've never lived there. I plan on going to school there in a year, possibly. That probably still won't be enough time to see its problems. I can only say from visiting, I haven't done much research on Singaporean politics or any of the sorts. That's why I should shy away from arguing any point there.
You'll be fine cos you'll be a foreigner there but for local-born Singaporeans, the system is slowly collapsing.
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On October 09 2010 02:35 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:30 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:18 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting. I already know how the 'Asian miracle' happened. In Japan, it was because 'big brother' U.S. stepped in after WWII to support and westernize Japan with democracy. And I think it was better like that. Do you know how the Japanese were before WWII? Yeah...and I really don't care if I offend you. Every culture has criticism, and it's popular to hate the States right now by referring to common 'insulting' demeanor such as Americans being fat, lazy, too critical, etc... You're right dude, because saying a country's existence is meaningless and unworthy by some arbitrary standard goes over real well. Changing with the times, what times? Democracy doesn't guarantee human rights, hello slavery, hello separate but equal, hello it took 200 years for America to elect a non-white president, hello Taiwan's fucking debacles and joke of a government and it's processes. How were the Japanese before WW2? Strong enough to be a legitimate global power? Strong enough to be first Asian country to win a war against an European power? Yeah? The US didn't simply step in, the US fucking buried the Asian countries after WW2, think Bush's either with us or against us mentality. Go read up on the Philippines after WW2 and the events surrounding the Geneva Convention for Indochina (French-Vietnam War). You can have your independence, just as long as it's America's version of independence. It's popular and correct to refer to the States as pretentious who thinks they know whats best for everyone when they have proved over and over again that they don't have a clue. Hello the primarily US dominated IMF and World Bank, hows your track record on helping developing countries? So slow down, what works for one doesn't always work for another. On topic, the fact that Lu Xiaobu is still in China is noteworthy and deserves praise, not Nobel worthy though. Yeah, the U.S. might have 'bullied' other Asian countries. This including Japan, but hey, at least they gave them a headstart and support afterwards....and not to mention, Japan striked first on U.S. soil. And yes, I agree that politics in America can be a mess. I still don't think you can call Americans arrogant and all the other cliche demeanors being used by other countries to insult us. Our leaders aren't necessarily representative of our people, as I know many people within the States hate the Bush family. I'd actually say most people do....at least I'd hope.
If your definition of bullying is to split nations into 2, incarcerate opposing factions, uprooting entire communities, start 2 wars that had detrimental effects throughout the entire region...that's a great headstart. That's also extremely arrogant a la White Man's Burden. It is arrogant to think that you know what is best for someone. It is extremely pretentious to try to enforce that view on another country through whatever means.
On October 09 2010 02:42 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:40 KissBlade wrote:
Japan did strike first on US soil. But US did also cause it by oil embargo-ing Japan (Japan was solely reliant on US oil for it's war efforts). Personally I support the US's move on that endeavor but essentially even though the US was "neutral", it was quite involved in the war by then. The US certainly did put work into developing Japan after WWII, I wouldn't deny that. However, it was also done for the strict purpose of securing a democratic block against Communism. The thing is, people really don't think about just WHY the US hates Communism or other non democratic governments so much. Because those in power wants to keep the power. Blargh that's why I hate politicians in general, it's never about the best for the people, it's about the best for them. Even if Socialism, Communism, Democracy can borrow elements to benefit their nation, they wouldn't do it. I have to totally agree with you on this. I HATE politics. That's why it gets me all angry when I read posts, even if I agree with them. An ideal world to me would be one without politics TBH, lol. Any system has so many flaws and there's always corruption....humans turn everything into a double-sided blade.
What? So you want to take out the inherent human-human interactions? That's really naive...
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On September 29 2010 07:13 Alou wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 07:03 hifriend wrote:
The nobel peace prize lost all its credibility when it was awarded to a man who's currently president of a nation fighting two wars (of aggression). And gave it to him before he actually did anything. I've already lost a lot of respect for the nobel peace prize, giving it to this guy, despite China's threats, would give it some respect though.
Anyone who kept Sarah Palin as far away from the presidency as she is now should deserve at least one, possibly two Nobel Peace Prizes.
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On October 09 2010 02:43 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:35 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:30 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:18 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:15 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 02:12 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 01:09 Judicator wrote:On October 09 2010 01:05 Meta wrote:On October 09 2010 00:20 dignity wrote:
Heroic does not mean it is legal. I just feel the west is going a bit too far by asking for his release. Internationally, every country should respect state sovereignty. Just because what he did was illegal doesn't mean that the law is correct. Unjust laws aren't laws at all. They're just tools for preserving the current power structure. Freedom of speech should be a basic fundamental, universal right to all humans. It's not unlike segregation laws in the US fifty years ago. For the last time. US isn't China, China isn't US. Stop bringing in US/Western examples, they didn't apply 20 years ago, they still don't apply today. I think China needs to be westernized like Japan. It's simply not changing with the times. They need more fundamental human rights to become a prospering country IMO. They're still developing, but I think that with improved laws, they could develop faster. There's no a way a country without such basic human rights can become a well developed one. That brings us to a further point, is the idea of human rights a western mindset? If so, I'd like to see a little westernization in the east. Only in America where individuals with albeit good intentions can be so insulting and extremely pretentious. Japan didn't "westernize" by choice either, maybe you should learn some history before commenting. I already know how the 'Asian miracle' happened. In Japan, it was because 'big brother' U.S. stepped in after WWII to support and westernize Japan with democracy. And I think it was better like that. Do you know how the Japanese were before WWII? Yeah...and I really don't care if I offend you. Every culture has criticism, and it's popular to hate the States right now by referring to common 'insulting' demeanor such as Americans being fat, lazy, too critical, etc... You're right dude, because saying a country's existence is meaningless and unworthy by some arbitrary standard goes over real well. Changing with the times, what times? Democracy doesn't guarantee human rights, hello slavery, hello separate but equal, hello it took 200 years for America to elect a non-white president, hello Taiwan's fucking debacles and joke of a government and it's processes. How were the Japanese before WW2? Strong enough to be a legitimate global power? Strong enough to be first Asian country to win a war against an European power? Yeah? The US didn't simply step in, the US fucking buried the Asian countries after WW2, think Bush's either with us or against us mentality. Go read up on the Philippines after WW2 and the events surrounding the Geneva Convention for Indochina (French-Vietnam War). You can have your independence, just as long as it's America's version of independence. It's popular and correct to refer to the States as pretentious who thinks they know whats best for everyone when they have proved over and over again that they don't have a clue. Hello the primarily US dominated IMF and World Bank, hows your track record on helping developing countries? So slow down, what works for one doesn't always work for another. On topic, the fact that Lu Xiaobu is still in China is noteworthy and deserves praise, not Nobel worthy though. Yeah, the U.S. might have 'bullied' other Asian countries. This including Japan, but hey, at least they gave them a headstart and support afterwards....and not to mention, Japan striked first on U.S. soil. And yes, I agree that politics in America can be a mess. I still don't think you can call Americans arrogant and all the other cliche demeanors being used by other countries to insult us. Our leaders aren't necessarily representative of our people, as I know many people within the States hate the Bush family. I'd actually say most people do....at least I'd hope. If your definition of bullying is to split nations into 2, incarcerate opposing factions, uprooting entire communities, start 2 wars that had detrimental effects throughout the entire region...that's a great headstart. That's also extremely arrogant a la White Man's Burden. It is arrogant to think that you know what is best for someone. It is extremely pretentious to try to enforce that view on another country through whatever means. Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:42 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:40 KissBlade wrote:
Japan did strike first on US soil. But US did also cause it by oil embargo-ing Japan (Japan was solely reliant on US oil for it's war efforts). Personally I support the US's move on that endeavor but essentially even though the US was "neutral", it was quite involved in the war by then. The US certainly did put work into developing Japan after WWII, I wouldn't deny that. However, it was also done for the strict purpose of securing a democratic block against Communism. The thing is, people really don't think about just WHY the US hates Communism or other non democratic governments so much. Because those in power wants to keep the power. Blargh that's why I hate politicians in general, it's never about the best for the people, it's about the best for them. Even if Socialism, Communism, Democracy can borrow elements to benefit their nation, they wouldn't do it. I have to totally agree with you on this. I HATE politics. That's why it gets me all angry when I read posts, even if I agree with them. An ideal world to me would be one without politics TBH, lol. Any system has so many flaws and there's always corruption....humans turn everything into a double-sided blade. What? So you want to take out the inherent human-human interactions? That's really naive...
Never said I wanted to, tbh. I said in an ideal world, that would be nice. To not have to worry about civil structure, just have everything all perfect and wondrous. Yeah, that's not the real world and it's impossible to not have structure.
I never said anything about enforcing a view by whatever means, either. I'm just curious of the idea of democracy in China. That won't solve its problems alone, so I'm not sure what will. I still think China needs to at least improve its human rights laws.
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Right, honestly, that's why I'm pretty ambivalent about China's "anger" towards the Nobel Peace Prize. It's all for show anyway and honestly I just don't get it at all. The Chinese government could afford to be a little more secure than caring about what every country says because personally I think the current regime did an amazing job for lifting the country out of Mao's disastrous later years. Do I think China could afford to relax their hold over certain policies? Certainly. But, I will definitely argue against anyone who thinks the Chinese government is doing a shitty job. Cause, I would LOVE for someone like Hu JinTao as my president. Party politics in the US are honestly taking more and more precedent over actually taking care of the country and it always seems to be a view that's sidelined because people are concerned about America's next Idol. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUU MEDIA.
PS. @ Judicator, I think your tone is unnecessarily harsh when DeadlyHazard is actually being very cordial in response. Honestly, things like "white man's arrogance" doesn't get anywhere, especially when he hasn't displayed any of it himself in the past few posts.
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On October 09 2010 02:43 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:40 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:38 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD. There are far bigger problems in Singapore than just some funky laws. You're probably right. I've never lived there. I plan on going to school there in a year, possibly. That probably still won't be enough time to see its problems. I can only say from visiting, I haven't done much research on Singaporean politics or any of the sorts. That's why I should shy away from arguing any point there. You'll be fine cos you'll be a foreigner there but for local-born Singaporeans, the system is slowly collapsing.
How's the economy in Singapore?
Anyway, is there any reason the system is collapsing there? What are the problems?
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That's fine, I am saying China can solve it's problems on it's own without "guidance" from other countries. I am not saying China should lone-wolf everything as it can learn from many historical lessons from other countries, but it plays under a different set of rules if you will from the West.
I am not being harsh, White Man's Burden is a concept that was pretty prevalent during imperialism, some of things he's advocating and the reasoning behind it shares some of WMB's. Like I said, good intentioned, but definitely unintentionally misplaced and arrogant.
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On October 09 2010 02:48 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:43 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:40 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:38 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD. There are far bigger problems in Singapore than just some funky laws. You're probably right. I've never lived there. I plan on going to school there in a year, possibly. That probably still won't be enough time to see its problems. I can only say from visiting, I haven't done much research on Singaporean politics or any of the sorts. That's why I should shy away from arguing any point there. You'll be fine cos you'll be a foreigner there but for local-born Singaporeans, the system is slowly collapsing. How's the economy in Singapore? Anyway, is there any reason the system is collapsing there? What are the problems?
http://singaporedissident.blogspot.com/2009/05/corruption-singapore-style.html <= this is why I said Singapore isn't exactly a good demonstration of democracy at work. Given it's not an accredited source but it's basically a view that a lot of the nationals there seem to hold.
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On October 09 2010 02:53 Judicator wrote:
That's fine, I am saying China can solve it's problems on it's own without "guidance" from other countries. I am not saying China should lone-wolf everything as it can learn from many historical lessons from other countries, but it plays under a different set of rules if you will from the West.
I agree with this. I just want to see better human rights in China.
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On October 09 2010 02:55 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:48 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:43 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:40 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:38 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD. There are far bigger problems in Singapore than just some funky laws. You're probably right. I've never lived there. I plan on going to school there in a year, possibly. That probably still won't be enough time to see its problems. I can only say from visiting, I haven't done much research on Singaporean politics or any of the sorts. That's why I should shy away from arguing any point there. You'll be fine cos you'll be a foreigner there but for local-born Singaporeans, the system is slowly collapsing. How's the economy in Singapore? Anyway, is there any reason the system is collapsing there? What are the problems? http://singaporedissident.blogspot.com/2009/05/corruption-singapore-style.html <= this is why I said Singapore isn't exactly a good demonstration of democracy at work. Given it's not an accredited source but it's basically a view that a lot of the nationals there seem to hold.
Neither are Greece or Russia, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work more or less fine in the rest of the West.
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If China were a democracy, I'd consider it likely that they go to war within the next 5 years. The Chinese people as a whole have been taught to dislike Japan and distrust America, and many would see military action justified to re-unite with Taiwan and defend North Korea, and possibly even to enforce claims against Japan and Vietnam. If anything, the authoritarian government is the surest safeguard of rational and peaceful foreign policy going forward, as if it were up to the people China might well have started a war already. China as a democracy is a much scarier thought than China continuing on as it has for the last 30 years, and I say that as a Canadian who has lived in China for the last six years. I know the language, I know the people, I know the culture, I know the history.
Besides, just look at how well democracy has worked to promote peace in that other nationalistic superpower. America has a track record of how many wars of aggression since the Korean war? I'm in favor of whatever will promote peace and prosperity for humankind as a whole, and I don't think pushing for Chinese democracy right now is one of those things. Democracy has to emerge organically from the will of the people and it has ever been an ill-fit for Asian cultures.
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On October 09 2010 02:58 Nightfall.589 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:55 KissBlade wrote:On October 09 2010 02:48 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:43 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:40 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:38 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD. There are far bigger problems in Singapore than just some funky laws. You're probably right. I've never lived there. I plan on going to school there in a year, possibly. That probably still won't be enough time to see its problems. I can only say from visiting, I haven't done much research on Singaporean politics or any of the sorts. That's why I should shy away from arguing any point there. You'll be fine cos you'll be a foreigner there but for local-born Singaporeans, the system is slowly collapsing. How's the economy in Singapore? Anyway, is there any reason the system is collapsing there? What are the problems? http://singaporedissident.blogspot.com/2009/05/corruption-singapore-style.html <= this is why I said Singapore isn't exactly a good demonstration of democracy at work. Given it's not an accredited source but it's basically a view that a lot of the nationals there seem to hold. Neither are Greece or Russia, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work more or less fine in the rest of the West.
... I ... don't see your point mainly because I don't think you were paying attention to the context of why I posted that.
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On October 09 2010 02:55 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:48 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:43 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:40 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:38 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD. There are far bigger problems in Singapore than just some funky laws. You're probably right. I've never lived there. I plan on going to school there in a year, possibly. That probably still won't be enough time to see its problems. I can only say from visiting, I haven't done much research on Singaporean politics or any of the sorts. That's why I should shy away from arguing any point there. You'll be fine cos you'll be a foreigner there but for local-born Singaporeans, the system is slowly collapsing. How's the economy in Singapore? Anyway, is there any reason the system is collapsing there? What are the problems? http://singaporedissident.blogspot.com/2009/05/corruption-singapore-style.html <= this is why I said Singapore isn't exactly a good demonstration of democracy at work. Given it's not an accredited source but it's basically a view that a lot of the nationals there seem to hold.
Singapore sounds more like a dictatorship or corrupt monarchy than anything else....wow.
I figured the politics were very corrupt there, I had seen Singapore in several lists of 'the most corrupt countries in the world.' But I didn't know why. Thanks for the information...really any information about Singapore will be infinitely useful for me, as it's a serious option for schooling right now.
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On October 09 2010 03:01 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 02:55 KissBlade wrote:On October 09 2010 02:48 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:43 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:40 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:38 Ryo wrote:On October 09 2010 02:29 Deadlyhazard wrote:On October 09 2010 02:27 KissBlade wrote:
Globalization alone suggests that Eastern and Western ideals blurs more than ou think. However, if you want to talk about actual benefits, I would argue that Eastern nations benefits far more from Western ideals such as capitalism and gaming foreign trade systems to fuck over other nations. And Singapore being a good example of democracy is lolworthy. I like Singapore. I've visited it several times. Sure, there are some funky laws there. For example, they do not allow gay folk to enter into the country or stay (that is, if they know the folk in question are gay). But there are other laws there I really enjoy. Such as cigarette tossing/littering in general being fined upwards toward 500$ - 1000$ SGD. There are far bigger problems in Singapore than just some funky laws. You're probably right. I've never lived there. I plan on going to school there in a year, possibly. That probably still won't be enough time to see its problems. I can only say from visiting, I haven't done much research on Singaporean politics or any of the sorts. That's why I should shy away from arguing any point there. You'll be fine cos you'll be a foreigner there but for local-born Singaporeans, the system is slowly collapsing. How's the economy in Singapore? Anyway, is there any reason the system is collapsing there? What are the problems? http://singaporedissident.blogspot.com/2009/05/corruption-singapore-style.html <= this is why I said Singapore isn't exactly a good demonstration of democracy at work. Given it's not an accredited source but it's basically a view that a lot of the nationals there seem to hold. Singapore sounds more like a dictatorship or corrupt monarchy than anything else....wow. I figured the politics were very corrupt there, I had seen Singapore in several lists of 'the most corrupt countries in the world.' But I didn't know why. Thanks for the information...really any information about Singapore will be infinitely useful for me, as it's a serious option for schooling right now.
As I said, Singapore only sucks if you're local-born and lower or middle class. If you're a foreigner, it's a good place to travel to/go to school at. They treat foreigners, PRs and new citizens, esp. caucasians, mainland Chinese and Indian nationals really well there. Which is one major reason why the system is collapsing really.
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Maybe if the Republicans threatened the Nobel Committee then Barack Obama wouldn't have won. Seriously, this is the same Nobel Committee that gave Yassir Arafat a Peace Prize, why did China waste time with that threat unless they just want to make their citizens fearful of speaking out? Oh, right.
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Just read a Chinese news site. With title: No Nobel Prize for China again.
I wonder how they going to spin that, Norway cancelled Nobel Peace Prize?
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On October 09 2010 02:58 Hautamaki wrote:
If China were a democracy, I'd consider it likely that they go to war within the next 5 years. The Chinese people as a whole have been taught to dislike Japan and distrust America, and many would see military action justified to re-unite with Taiwan and defend North Korea, and possibly even to enforce claims against Japan and Vietnam. If anything, the authoritarian government is the surest safeguard of rational and peaceful foreign policy going forward, as if it were up to the people China might well have started a war already. China as a democracy is a much scarier thought than China continuing on as it has for the last 30 years, and I say that as a Canadian who has lived in China for the last six years. I know the language, I know the people, I know the culture, I know the history.
Besides, just look at how well democracy has worked to promote peace in that other nationalistic superpower. America has a track record of how many wars of aggression since the Korean war? I'm in favor of whatever will promote peace and prosperity for humankind as a whole, and I don't think pushing for Chinese democracy right now is one of those things. Democracy has to emerge organically from the will of the people and it has ever been an ill-fit for Asian cultures.
Well said.
I though this thread was done weeks ago.
Why give Nobel Prize to Liu Xiao Bo now? What did he achieve? As someone has already written in this thread. When China actually become a democrat then give the prize to him O_O.
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On October 09 2010 03:10 haduken wrote:
Just read a Chinese news site. With title: No Nobel Prize for China again.
I wonder how they going to spin that, Norway cancelled Nobel Peace Prize?
They spun it with the whole "No Nobel prize for scientific pursuits were awarded to china, etc etc".
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The dude is 55 years old and going to spend 11+ years in prison and this is the same guy that spends majority of his adult life either being detained or harassed and still working towards the same goal.
And unlike his colleagues who all got their foreign citizenships, he stayed and kept the flame alive.
It's a tragedy really because in times of trouble, people like him will be the ones that you count on to be patriots.
He deserves recognition if only for his persistence.
It would be so epic if 10 years later, he gets released and become the next Chinese Mandela or something.
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EPT
