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On July 02 2010 08:20 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 07:19 ggrrg wrote:On July 02 2010 06:49 travis wrote:On July 02 2010 06:44 PaddyPower wrote:On July 02 2010 03:24 CharlieMurphy wrote:
fucking joke country we live in. "hey lets make tons of this worthless vaccine because someone told us this new strain of flu is dangerous (even though there are new strains every year)"
but tbh, 260$ mil is nothing for a loss compared to the debt with everything else. Sorry sir but the only thing thats a "fucking joke" is that no matter what the goverment does they wont win with people like you around, if they didn't make enough there would be this article with "250 million spare that could have been used on vaccacines .. how much is a life really worth??" If i was american i would be quite proud my country were willing to spend so much money to insure my safety. uh, just so it's clear - that money comes from tax payers. it's not like the companies that makes the drugs put up the money... it's everyone. and it's already been shown that it wasn't necessary. do you just skip over posts that might invalidate your opinions? How does your statement contradict anything he said? Of course the government budget comes from the tax payers. However, taxes are paid anyway and then the government can decide how to allocate its budget. Yes, the vaccines were not really neccessary and the swine flu itself wasn't nearly as dangerous as it was said to be. However, let's not forget that an incredibly large portion of Western people were very afraid of the illness anyhow. The public driven by its fear and ignorance demanded the vaccines. If you want to blame anyone blame the misleading media and the ignorance of the masses. as for "experts" making policy regarding our health, the head of the FDA is appointed by politicians, not experts. the head of the CDC is appointed by politicians, not experts. these groups are political and like all other government bodies, integrity is far from their primary concern.
Experts kind of like Dr. Margaret Hamburg who graduated from Harvard Medical School while doing research in pharmacology? Or more like Dr. Tom Frieden who graduated from Columbia's medical school and did a specialization at Yale in infectious disease control. Both of whom have worked extensively with infectious diseases such as tuberculosis.
Hmmm... yea I think I would rather trust some of the experts on this forum... these sound like some pretty shifty characters.
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On July 02 2010 10:54 Tempest7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 08:20 travis wrote:On July 02 2010 07:19 ggrrg wrote:On July 02 2010 06:49 travis wrote:On July 02 2010 06:44 PaddyPower wrote:On July 02 2010 03:24 CharlieMurphy wrote:
fucking joke country we live in. "hey lets make tons of this worthless vaccine because someone told us this new strain of flu is dangerous (even though there are new strains every year)"
but tbh, 260$ mil is nothing for a loss compared to the debt with everything else. Sorry sir but the only thing thats a "fucking joke" is that no matter what the goverment does they wont win with people like you around, if they didn't make enough there would be this article with "250 million spare that could have been used on vaccacines .. how much is a life really worth??" If i was american i would be quite proud my country were willing to spend so much money to insure my safety. uh, just so it's clear - that money comes from tax payers. it's not like the companies that makes the drugs put up the money... it's everyone. and it's already been shown that it wasn't necessary. do you just skip over posts that might invalidate your opinions? How does your statement contradict anything he said? Of course the government budget comes from the tax payers. However, taxes are paid anyway and then the government can decide how to allocate its budget. Yes, the vaccines were not really neccessary and the swine flu itself wasn't nearly as dangerous as it was said to be. However, let's not forget that an incredibly large portion of Western people were very afraid of the illness anyhow. The public driven by its fear and ignorance demanded the vaccines. If you want to blame anyone blame the misleading media and the ignorance of the masses. as for "experts" making policy regarding our health, the head of the FDA is appointed by politicians, not experts. the head of the CDC is appointed by politicians, not experts. these groups are political and like all other government bodies, integrity is far from their primary concern. Experts kind of like Dr. Margaret Hamburg who graduated from Harvard Medical School while doing research in pharmacology? Or more like Dr. Tom Frieden who graduated from Columbia's medical school and did a specialization at Yale in infectious disease control. Both of whom have worked extensively with infectious diseases such as tuberculosis. Hmmm... yea I think I would rather trust some of the experts on this forum... these sound like some pretty shifty characters.
Like I said, all conspiracy theorists are self-proclaimed expert biologists.
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Proves that even experts can fall victim to media fear-mongering.
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On July 02 2010 11:00 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 10:54 Tempest7 wrote:On July 02 2010 08:20 travis wrote:On July 02 2010 07:19 ggrrg wrote:On July 02 2010 06:49 travis wrote:On July 02 2010 06:44 PaddyPower wrote:On July 02 2010 03:24 CharlieMurphy wrote:
fucking joke country we live in. "hey lets make tons of this worthless vaccine because someone told us this new strain of flu is dangerous (even though there are new strains every year)"
but tbh, 260$ mil is nothing for a loss compared to the debt with everything else. Sorry sir but the only thing thats a "fucking joke" is that no matter what the goverment does they wont win with people like you around, if they didn't make enough there would be this article with "250 million spare that could have been used on vaccacines .. how much is a life really worth??" If i was american i would be quite proud my country were willing to spend so much money to insure my safety. uh, just so it's clear - that money comes from tax payers. it's not like the companies that makes the drugs put up the money... it's everyone. and it's already been shown that it wasn't necessary. do you just skip over posts that might invalidate your opinions? How does your statement contradict anything he said? Of course the government budget comes from the tax payers. However, taxes are paid anyway and then the government can decide how to allocate its budget. Yes, the vaccines were not really neccessary and the swine flu itself wasn't nearly as dangerous as it was said to be. However, let's not forget that an incredibly large portion of Western people were very afraid of the illness anyhow. The public driven by its fear and ignorance demanded the vaccines. If you want to blame anyone blame the misleading media and the ignorance of the masses. as for "experts" making policy regarding our health, the head of the FDA is appointed by politicians, not experts. the head of the CDC is appointed by politicians, not experts. these groups are political and like all other government bodies, integrity is far from their primary concern. Experts kind of like Dr. Margaret Hamburg who graduated from Harvard Medical School while doing research in pharmacology? Or more like Dr. Tom Frieden who graduated from Columbia's medical school and did a specialization at Yale in infectious disease control. Both of whom have worked extensively with infectious diseases such as tuberculosis. Hmmm... yea I think I would rather trust some of the experts on this forum... these sound like some pretty shifty characters. Like I said, all conspiracy theorists are self-proclaimed expert biologists.
On July 02 2010 10:54 Tempest7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 08:20 travis wrote:On July 02 2010 07:19 ggrrg wrote:On July 02 2010 06:49 travis wrote:On July 02 2010 06:44 PaddyPower wrote:On July 02 2010 03:24 CharlieMurphy wrote:
fucking joke country we live in. "hey lets make tons of this worthless vaccine because someone told us this new strain of flu is dangerous (even though there are new strains every year)"
but tbh, 260$ mil is nothing for a loss compared to the debt with everything else. Sorry sir but the only thing thats a "fucking joke" is that no matter what the goverment does they wont win with people like you around, if they didn't make enough there would be this article with "250 million spare that could have been used on vaccacines .. how much is a life really worth??" If i was american i would be quite proud my country were willing to spend so much money to insure my safety. uh, just so it's clear - that money comes from tax payers. it's not like the companies that makes the drugs put up the money... it's everyone. and it's already been shown that it wasn't necessary. do you just skip over posts that might invalidate your opinions? How does your statement contradict anything he said? Of course the government budget comes from the tax payers. However, taxes are paid anyway and then the government can decide how to allocate its budget. Yes, the vaccines were not really neccessary and the swine flu itself wasn't nearly as dangerous as it was said to be. However, let's not forget that an incredibly large portion of Western people were very afraid of the illness anyhow. The public driven by its fear and ignorance demanded the vaccines. If you want to blame anyone blame the misleading media and the ignorance of the masses. as for "experts" making policy regarding our health, the head of the FDA is appointed by politicians, not experts. the head of the CDC is appointed by politicians, not experts. these groups are political and like all other government bodies, integrity is far from their primary concern. Experts kind of like Dr. Margaret Hamburg who graduated from Harvard Medical School while doing research in pharmacology? Or more like Dr. Tom Frieden who graduated from Columbia's medical school and did a specialization at Yale in infectious disease control. Both of whom have worked extensively with infectious diseases such as tuberculosis. Hmmm... yea I think I would rather trust some of the experts on this forum... these sound like some pretty shifty characters.
I didn't say they weren't doctors, I said they were appointed by politicians. You guys are pretty ignorant if you don't think there are plenty of doctors who play politics.
djzpaz, your reply doesn't even make any sense.
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I could have gone for a free shot at my university... and I didn't. I didn't get swine flu either. I kind of feel bad now 
But I'll be paying back part that $250 million in taxes so not really.
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Something that has yet to be addressed in this thread is the fact that if a sudden need for a vaccine arises they cannot be produced immediately when needed. Vaccine making technology isn't exactly the most advanced due to the lack of demand, so when another wave hits, guess what?
Also, swine flu isn't just swine flu. It is a mix of human flu, avian flu, and swine flu that has mixed into a much more complex virus. Since it is a complex virus this leads to the a lot of uncertainty in how the virus will affect us. As well as its ability to spread at such a rapid rate (within 2 days 5 continents were infected) and the fact that it contained many similarities to previous pandemics such as the Asian Flu, Spanish flu, and Hong Kong flu pandemic lead to the requirement for a rapid decision.
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On July 02 2010 11:03 Butigroove wrote:
Proves that even experts can fall victim to media fear-mongering.
It wasn't the media that caused the initial panic, it was statistics from the Mexican health department. They were reporting numbers like 8 to 10% fatality rate with something like 150 deaths at that point, which made all of the experts shit their pants (SARS with way more transmissibility and tons of asymptomatic carriers = ). Mexican doctors underestimated the number of cases they actually had, and because we didn't complete information, the best course of action was to shit our pants and buy tons of vaccines, just in case swine flu was a repeat of the spanish flu, which killed something like 50 million people.
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well, I knew this was going to happen. I didn't take the shot. It was just a flu. people die even from a "normal" flu. Swine flue was just a media thing, just like everything in this world 
On July 02 2010 11:38 b0lt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 11:03 Butigroove wrote:
Proves that even experts can fall victim to media fear-mongering. It wasn't the media that caused the initial panic, it was statistics from the Mexican health department.
another victim of the media manipulation.
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Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup, DayQuil, and Sprite.
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konadora
Singapore66355 Posts
""Although there were many doses of vaccine that went unused, it was much more appropriate to have been prepared for the worst case scenario than to have had too few doses," said Bill Hall, spokesman for U.S. Department of Health and Human Services."
agreed!
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Not sure if they were being safe or being paranoid. Always better to be safe than sorry though.
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The pharmaceutics companies are great. They convinced the french ministry of health that 2 injections per person were required (while they soon realized 1 was enough). So France bought 94 millions vaccines for a total of 869 millions euros (lol wat that's like 15 euros per person). They once again soon realized that because of the number of nurses available they could only vaccinate 14 millions of people during the effective period. In the end, only 5 millions people were vaccinated. Hopefully France sold 2 millions doses to Egypt. That's still 87 millions doses wasted.
In the end, the french ministry of health definitely knew they could only vaccinate 14 millions people (just multiply the number of available nurses/doctors by the number of injections they can make daily, adjusted with estimations of other factors), and still bought 94 millions doses for 60 millions population. Either the minister is utterly retarded, either she got a nice commission fee
There was also a big misinformation campaign. Like : "omg swine flu killed 200 people !" without mentionning that regular flu kills 10 times more at the meantime. etc.
And im not even mentioning the risks of overvaccination.
And considering how powerful is the pharmaceutical lobby, I would not be surprised by ANY scenario.
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Better extra doses than a desolate post-apocalyptic wasteland
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On July 02 2010 12:46 n.DieJokes wrote:
Better extra doses than a desolate post-apocalyptic wasteland
Hope you are being sarcrastic.
If there is one day a virus as devastating as we can see in post-apocalyptic movies, the virus will be very likely (99.9%) made by a pharmaceutical company. I do not trust pharmaceutical company and never will.
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Flu vaccines are pretty dumb all around.
They work provide a good amount of protection for young people with good immune systems...Who don't really need them in the first place and rarely get them...Don't work that great for old people with depressed immune systems...Irony.
Polio is one thing, but flu changes every year.
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Well at least we didn't under shot the amount of dosage needed and have riots in the streets over who gets the shots, always better to be safe than sorry.
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hi i'm korean
i've known this site two days ago
recently i listened from anyone that there is not korean right?
anyway, i'm often coming this site
and i'm studying english theseday
it seems to study well for me
i can't speak English well so i want you understand my English
i've written this forum first
bye~ i'll often come by this site
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djzpaz, your reply doesn't even make any sense.
Travis I'm just saying that a lot of people who are angry about the swine flu vaccine thing are completely ignorant about the actual facts.
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Every 20 seconds a child dies from water related disease.
Every 30 seconds a child dies from hunger.
Every 30 seconds a child dies from malaria.
A handful of people died in the States and people go ballistic. Why did people invest so much and went crazy when swine flu came out? Cuz it was them being sick. I say this lose is well deserved >-> Just wash your hands next time.
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EPT
