EPT
Elliott Smith, and why he is amazing. - Page 3
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HunterStarcraft
Canada249 Posts
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Miss_Cleo
United States406 Posts
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Beside_kr
Canada902 Posts
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CtrLZerG
United States104 Posts
On May 18 2010 10:40 Liquid`NonY wrote: For some people, the risk for suicide can be highest when starting to feel better. Psychological problems like depression can be really paralyzing and numbing and cause a lot of apathy and, well, depression. In other words, a bunch of things that lead to inaction. If those symptoms are lifted before suicidal ideation is gone, then risk goes up. Elliott was getting healthy in 2003. Yea, I think I agree with you more than what I said. I thought about it and I was constantly thinking about one of his last concerts (which is found here http://www.archive.org/details/esmith2003-01-31.flac16) And i found some videos and he just looked terrible... but listening to it again, he didn't seem very unhealthy at all... Compared to when he played his show in front of what is now 'Intelligentsia Coffee' at Sunset Junction in Silverlake, California... where he couldn't even finish several of his songs (one reason being that the monitors were screwed up, the other being that he just wasnt in good condition) Of course, when i said 'he suddenly slipped into a deep depression in 2003," i meant the very last weeks he was alive... (all of which is speculation of course. This is assuming you believe what his girl friend said, and dont believe it was homicide) But I think what you said seems to make a lot more sense.... taking into consideration the psychology of a recovering drug addict and alcoholic... | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
On May 18 2010 10:59 Miss_Cleo wrote: I never said he was unpopular when he was alive, I just said he was propelled to fame by his death, much like Nick Drake. No need to get offended, I was just stating my opinion Don't worry, I won't get offended. But what's the difference between popularity and fame? Or if there is no difference, how is it he is popular/famous before death but he also attains popularity/fame from a tragic death? I still don't think you understand how time works. A cause can't come after its effect. | ||
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Miss_Cleo
United States406 Posts
On May 18 2010 11:15 Liquid`NonY wrote: Don't worry, I won't get offended. But what's the difference between popularity and fame? Or if there is no difference, how is it he is popular/famous before death but he also attains popularity/fame from a tragic death? I still don't think you understand how time works. A cause can't come after its effect. Here I'll simplify it for you. He was popular with a certain crowd when he was alive. When he died, his story was covered by the media so much that people who didn't know about his music or knew he even existed had to chance to listen to him. I guess you can call his death publicity. | ||
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CtrLZerG
United States104 Posts
On May 18 2010 06:21 CtrLZerG wrote: All too often, people try to be a part of pop culture and listen to everything that everyone else listens to... but nobody is really quite sure whether they like it or not. The difference between Elliott Smith and so many other people is he writes what he wants, and he does a great job doing it. His ability to write beautiful melodies (honestly, his melodies are some of the most amazing i've ever heard out of ANYONE. Period.) and also match up his lyrics to those melodies is incredible. I think what he might actually be thinking about is those who listen to the music because of his death... under the illusion that it's the same 'Legend' status that people associate with Hendrix, John Lennon, and Kurt Cobain.. However, those people are only pretentious individuals who want to be apart of pop culture. They don't have reasons to love the music. In our defense, however, you can't just judge any good musician adequately by skimming through the songs a couple of times.... Good music grows on you. You listen to it and you think 'this is pretty good..' so you keep listening to it. Soon enough you'll start noticing amazing subtleties that make you say 'that was amazing!' It's a lot like when your listening to a jazz writer like Dave Brubeck where you can't possibly pick up on everything after listening to it once... You have to be familiar with it to really love it and adequately review it. So beware when you say 'I believe he's only an average musician' unless you really think you know what you are talking about.... because let me tell you, when you are talking about musicians, you will hardly EVER be right...And i have several reasons showing that he is definitely not just an average writer. First of all, you'll notice in songs like 'Color Bars' and 'Pretty Mary K,' that he changes keys very often... using out of key chords that some how are pulled together... Even in Between the bars, which is one of his easiest songs to play, he uses 2 - 3 out of key chords. Moreover, his use of finger-style guitar in his songs allows him to not only use, but emphasize bass notes in his chords... he wont necessarily change a chord right away, but he'll change the bass note very very often... In many of his songs, it's very very difficult to transition the way he does. For example, in this song.. It's not very complicated, but its by no means average.. You should be much more aware as to how amazing a guitarist he actually was.. and keep an open mind, man... Being contrary and cynical is not a very desirable personality trait. I see it all too often in kids that try to listen to indie music to be apart of the 'cool scene' and whenever they see something thats even relatively popular, they say 'That band is a sellout' or they say 'those guys are terrible' when in reality, they havent even listened to anything. Real musicians and people who respect and love music wont shutout anything without giving it a real chance. | ||
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bovi
Japan208 Posts
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CtrLZerG
United States104 Posts
On May 18 2010 11:41 bovi wrote: nice to know you're a big fan of Elliott Smith. my fave songs of his are Big Nothing and someone i used to know. There are many of his that i really like but those are my faves. really like his tattoo of ferdinand the bull, its a great drawing. I very very rarely see tattoos that i think look good. somehow it fits how ES comes across to me - ferdinand/elliott. Yea i always liked that tattoo... and once I saw it i always associated ferdinand with elliott.. maybe it was just how I imagined him to be as a person but... who knows lol | ||
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stafu
Australia1196 Posts
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CtrLZerG
United States104 Posts
On May 18 2010 12:35 stafu wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaEh2RKCDPc The one thing I don't like about that performance, and what Elliott himself really disliked was the fact they had him shorten the song so much. It's only 2/3 the length it was supposed to be.. but besides that, a good performance. | ||
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SleepSheep
Canada344 Posts
On May 18 2010 11:33 Miss_Cleo wrote: Here I'll simplify it for you. He was popular with a certain crowd when he was alive. When he died, his story was covered by the media so much that people who didn't know about his music or knew he even existed had to chance to listen to him. I guess you can call his death publicity. So basically you're saying now that his death gave him publicity--and of course it did. But you also called him average before he got this publicity and suggested that lack of fame was the criteria for being average. But the fact is, Smith had lots of popularity before his death, and therefore he had fame. So unless you have a special definition for fame that's significantly distinct from popularity, then the argument that Smith's death was his claim to fame doesn't make any sense. | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
Only my opinion. | ||
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Rho_
United States971 Posts
Slightly suspicious death. | ||
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zOula...
United States898 Posts
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
On May 18 2010 11:35 CtrLZerG wrote:I see it all too often in kids that try to listen to indie music to be apart of the 'cool scene' and whenever they see something thats even relatively popular, they say 'That band is a sellout' or they say 'those guys are terrible' when in reality, they havent even listened to anything. Real musicians and people who respect and love music wont shutout anything without giving it a real chance. Still you gotta be aware that a lot of bands are sellouts and/or terrible | ||
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Failsafe
United States1298 Posts
-Jesus Come on seriously. Who gives a fuck about the popularity of a dead artist, where that popularity came from or where it'll go? If you like the music then that's good, if you don't, that's good too | ||
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CtrLZerG
United States104 Posts
On May 19 2010 02:27 Failsafe wrote: Come on seriously. Who gives a fuck about the popularity of a dead artist, where that popularity came from or where it'll go? If you like the music then that's good, if you don't, that's good too Yea, pretty much. The point im trying to make is if you have reason to like him, that's good, if you dislike him without any real reason then that is just ignorance. I think he's incredible, one of my favorite artists of all time, and I have reasons for thinking that. And to the person who doesnt like elliott smith as much as people like Bob Dylan or Joni mitchel, your perfectly fine to think that. It's totally fine if you have an opinion like that, as long as you have a reason behind it. | ||
CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
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