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Baa?21245 Posts
On March 13 2010 15:23 Surrealistic wrote:Here's an opinion that throws a spanner in the works - I have dismissed all but one of Beethoven's symphonies. I have listened to recordings by the likes of Kleber, Rattle, Bernstein, Bohm, Klemperer, Marriner, Szell, Furtwanglar (and a few more) and mostly Karajan but only one has truly convinced me. http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonie-No-Overture-Egmont/dp/B000056TKCI highly recommend this to anyone, the 9th symphony should be familiar, but this ....
O_O
Wait, are you saying you only like one of Beethoven's symphonies, or are you saying that
Jochum's interpretation is the only conductor who makes you like Beethoven as a whole?
While we're on this topic, I highly recommend Frans Bruggen and the Orchestra of the 18th Century's Beethoven (and Schubert) symphony cycle to any and everyone. I'm almost tempted to say that if you only ever listen to one interpretation, go with Bruggen.
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Wow that article sounds incredible... almost hard to believe even. Like the thing about the "Mosquito" that emits a sound only younger people can hear that is painful to hear? How can that be legal to use in a public area.
Some classical music sounds good to me, and some doesn't. Just the same as almost any genre of music really.
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On March 13 2010 15:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 15:23 Surrealistic wrote:Here's an opinion that throws a spanner in the works - I have dismissed all but one of Beethoven's symphonies. I have listened to recordings by the likes of Kleber, Rattle, Bernstein, Bohm, Klemperer, Marriner, Szell, Furtwanglar (and a few more) and mostly Karajan but only one has truly convinced me. http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonie-No-Overture-Egmont/dp/B000056TKCI highly recommend this to anyone, the 9th symphony should be familiar, but this .... O_O Wait, are you saying you only like one of Beethoven's symphonies, or are you saying that Jochum's interpretation is the only conductor who makes you like Beethoven as a whole? While we're on this topic, I highly recommend Frans Bruggen and the Orchestra of the 18th Century's Beethoven (and Schubert) symphony cycle to any and everyone. I'm almost tempted to say that if you only ever listen to one interpretation, go with Bruggen.
One conductor which was not mentioned and has been passed over too often: Leibowitz.
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On March 13 2010 15:23 Surrealistic wrote:
I don't agree with the whole "need to be brought up or taught classical music to be a listener".
On March 13 2010 15:23 Surrealistic wrote:
My taste has changed in just over a year rather considerably,
On March 13 2010 15:23 Surrealistic wrote:
from a primarily indie rock, alternative, idm and ambient listener to one who's ears are dominated by classical, both contemporary and baroque/romantic and jazz - mainly free jazz.
Edit: If you don't get what I did there, I'm contrasting the first quote, with the second quote. Like I said, it's not that you have to be 'taught' it but you really have to throw yourself into the music and it doesn't come at you right away.
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I have noticed several things over the last years:
1. Musical taste changes. Sometimes dramatically. Especially if you're still young. What you like in your teens will most likely not be what you will still listen to in your twenties, and so on.
I'd assume most of you here are around 20 of age. What you like now, says nothing about later on. It was the same for me.
2. Peer "pressure" also affects musical taste. Even if you think you're an exception. You will start liking things you might not have started liking otherwise, and you will view "okay" (or even bad) music as good music (and not listen to what you REALLY like most). Maybe you also attach stupid values to music (e.g.: rap/hiphop/metal = cool/true, other stuff = lame/gay) and then use that to view yourself respectively your music as superior. There are definitelty younger people who do that. This seems especially true in the rap and metal genre.
3. This elitism thing has something true about it. I have read about a study which came to the conclusion that said something along the lines of "extroverted people who may not be as intelligent as others prefer listening to simpler, expressive music like Rap, Metal or stuff like that, while intelligent, maybe introverted people prefer listening to more complex music like Classical or Jazz (maybe also complex Rock music)". The more intelligent you are the more you can enjoy the more complex styles of music.
And I don't think this is far-fetched. If you're somewhat more intelligent than average, chances are you will be "bored" of "simple" music and prefer listening to something which "offers" much more, while if you aren't as intelligent you'll find the simpler music to be more enjoyable because it doesn't demand much attention from you. It doesn't have to be like that, of course, and it doesn't mean that one will *never* listen to the other type of music.
A distant friend of mine who is the most intelligent person I've ever met in my life, who now makes his Dr./PhD in Physics, also really likes music... what does he listen to? Rap/Hiphop? Pop? Rock? Metal? None of it (just from time to time)... he much prefers classical music. He also doesn't go to regular concerts but to orchestral performances of various classical works.
Coincidence? Maybe. But probably not...
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On March 13 2010 07:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:47 JohnColtrane wrote:On March 13 2010 04:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 12 2010 21:33 JohnColtrane wrote:On March 12 2010 21:30 phosphorylation wrote:
you are deliberately missing the point
its a cocnept piece bro ive got some silence want to buy it? That's so easy it's not even funny. It's as silly as saying as "lololol Duchamp is so crap, he just take some toilets and put it in a museum I can do it too lolololol". it was a serious inquiry, petal however the fuck you may look at it, a song of silence being sold for money is hilariously retarded It's an artwork not a product, "petal". If you can't make the difference and need to think it in terms of money, no wonder why you don't understand shit about what it is about.
hey bro
im making artwork right now
jealous?
also i dont know what you are pissing on about. it's silence being sold for money. i dont give a fig whether or not you think its about it being 'art' or what not - it's a track of nothing being sold as money, and i found that retarded. what's your beef with that, gumby? you gonna tell me not to laugh at silence being sold for 3 bucks because its artistic?
l 0 l
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Baa?21245 Posts
On March 13 2010 16:37 0xDEADBEEF wrote:
3. This elitism thing has something true about it. I have read about a study which came to the conclusion that said something along the lines of "extroverted people who may not be as intelligent as others prefer listening to simpler, expressive music like Rap, Metal or stuff like that, while intelligent, maybe introverted people prefer listening to more complex music like Classical or Jazz (maybe also complex Rock music)". The more intelligent you are the more you can enjoy the more complex styles of music.
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Interesting post, but I'm sure there are people who'd think that this viewpoint is exactly the kind of elitism that makes classical music seems snobbish xD
I'd like to contradict the point about metal music, though.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1052606/Take-note-Fans-heavy-metal-classical-music-lot-common-study-finds.html
I've always found this interesting, because I myself am one of those people who enjoy both metal (heavy and power/prog mostly) and classical music. And a lot of the characteristics attributed to classical/metal fans, with the notable exception of creativity, I feel applies fairly well to me. Introverted but at ease sounds about right. I've always lamented my lack of creative ability though =P
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haha reggae = not hard working
i wonder if that's because they smoke dope all day
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im saddened when i hear about styles dying out because of lack of sales or whatever. i dont think people should forgo their musical integrity for money, especially something as old and timeless as classical, but what else can you do? you can always practise the goods at home and bring out the friendlier stuff for concerts.
i dont know what else there is apart from education as kids, but even then, who's to say people will still take a liking to it anyway
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United States3824 Posts
On March 11 2010 08:14 Sunyveil wrote:
personally, I hate it when my hometown classical music station sells out. But then again, I go to Oberlin Conservatory, so I'm not representative of many people at all
This made me smile.
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On March 13 2010 16:37 0xDEADBEEF wrote:
3. This elitism thing has something true about it. I have read about a study which came to the conclusion that said something along the lines of "extroverted people who may not be as intelligent as others prefer listening to simpler, expressive music like Rap, Metal or stuff like that, while intelligent, maybe introverted people prefer listening to more complex music like Classical or Jazz (maybe also complex Rock music)". The more intelligent you are the more you can enjoy the more complex styles of music.
And I don't think this is far-fetched. If you're somewhat more intelligent than average, chances are you will be "bored" of "simple" music and prefer listening to something which "offers" much more, while if you aren't as intelligent you'll find the simpler music to be more enjoyable because it doesn't demand much attention from you. It doesn't have to be like that, of course, and it doesn't mean that one will *never* listen to the other type of music.
A distant friend of mine who is the most intelligent person I've ever met in my life, who now makes his Dr./PhD in Physics, also really likes music... what does he listen to? Rap/Hiphop? Pop? Rock? Metal? None of it (just from time to time)... he much prefers classical music. He also doesn't go to regular concerts but to orchestral performances of various classical works.
Coincidence? Maybe. But probably not...
It has nothing to do with intelligence. I know really smart people who love pop music, and abhors classical music.
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On March 11 2010 08:14 Sunyveil wrote:
personally, I hate it when my hometown classical music station sells out. But then again, I go to Oberlin Conservatory, so I'm not representative of many people at all
There's a really good Mexican classical station down here in La Jolla. They actually seem to know something about music, unlike 101.2 back in the bay.
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On March 13 2010 17:05 liosama wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 16:37 0xDEADBEEF wrote:
3. This elitism thing has something true about it. I have read about a study which came to the conclusion that said something along the lines of "extroverted people who may not be as intelligent as others prefer listening to simpler, expressive music like Rap, Metal or stuff like that, while intelligent, maybe introverted people prefer listening to more complex music like Classical or Jazz (maybe also complex Rock music)". The more intelligent you are the more you can enjoy the more complex styles of music.
And I don't think this is far-fetched. If you're somewhat more intelligent than average, chances are you will be "bored" of "simple" music and prefer listening to something which "offers" much more, while if you aren't as intelligent you'll find the simpler music to be more enjoyable because it doesn't demand much attention from you. It doesn't have to be like that, of course, and it doesn't mean that one will *never* listen to the other type of music.
A distant friend of mine who is the most intelligent person I've ever met in my life, who now makes his Dr./PhD in Physics, also really likes music... what does he listen to? Rap/Hiphop? Pop? Rock? Metal? None of it (just from time to time)... he much prefers classical music. He also doesn't go to regular concerts but to orchestral performances of various classical works.
Coincidence? Maybe. But probably not... It has nothing to do with intelligence. I know really smart people who love pop music, and abhors classical music.
in general though, most people i consider intelligent have at least an above average interest in classical music
of course, there are exceptions and these people unfortunately just have not opened their eyes to the arts in general -- too occupied with their primary pursuit which they excel at -- although they are fully capable of appreciating "better' music
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On March 13 2010 17:16 phosphorylation wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 17:05 liosama wrote:On March 13 2010 16:37 0xDEADBEEF wrote:
3. This elitism thing has something true about it. I have read about a study which came to the conclusion that said something along the lines of "extroverted people who may not be as intelligent as others prefer listening to simpler, expressive music like Rap, Metal or stuff like that, while intelligent, maybe introverted people prefer listening to more complex music like Classical or Jazz (maybe also complex Rock music)". The more intelligent you are the more you can enjoy the more complex styles of music.
And I don't think this is far-fetched. If you're somewhat more intelligent than average, chances are you will be "bored" of "simple" music and prefer listening to something which "offers" much more, while if you aren't as intelligent you'll find the simpler music to be more enjoyable because it doesn't demand much attention from you. It doesn't have to be like that, of course, and it doesn't mean that one will *never* listen to the other type of music.
A distant friend of mine who is the most intelligent person I've ever met in my life, who now makes his Dr./PhD in Physics, also really likes music... what does he listen to? Rap/Hiphop? Pop? Rock? Metal? None of it (just from time to time)... he much prefers classical music. He also doesn't go to regular concerts but to orchestral performances of various classical works.
Coincidence? Maybe. But probably not... It has nothing to do with intelligence. I know really smart people who love pop music, and abhors classical music. in general though, most people i consider intelligent have at least an above average interest in classical music of course, there are exceptions and these people unfortunately just have not opened their eyes to the arts in general -- too occupied with their primary pursuit which they excel at -- although they are fully capable of appreciating "better' music
i dont know, why do intelligent people have to want to enjoy intelligent music? stuff that sounds good sounds good regardless of how intricate or what not it is. i'm not a moron and i love g's like fat jon
whoops, almost missed the 'better' music thing again
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I don't know man I disagree. I feel it is more-so to do with patience, upbringing, and time. People who like classical music have had either of these things hanging by which helped them get to like it. I believe the main reason with people label classical music as elitist and pretentious is because of this intelligence thing that people seem to think one needs in order to appreciate classical music.
I have mentioned this time and time again, there is a (musical) cultural difference between different genres of music. Just listen to some styles characteristic to baroque, renaissance, classical, romance and modern to contemporary. Any idiot can listen to them with some seriousness and tell me that they all sound very much different from each other. That same idiot can then sit down and really listen to some old school Bach and be like wow this shit is so complex, then after he listens to more of Bach, and even more of Bach he's like "wow this ain't so complex after all" Then he dives in to some Mozart and starts having orgasms like anything compared to this Bach character. Then before long he'll find himself thrown into romance era music which is just different all together.
Is he an idiot now?
Was he ever an idiot in the first place?
After you get past the structure which is really the only thing which truly separates classical music from other genres of music, all genres of music are more or less the same. It's just that classical music, and instrumental music in general tend to sing very abstract ideas which are housed together using this intricate and delicate and ever so deep structure. The actual physical musical qualities to classical music, are, I believe, no different from any genre of music we see anywhere around the world. And any music major would tell you the same thing (I'm not a music major, and I don't know much about music, but I love it and that's all that matters.
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I don't know what's 'intellectual' about classical music... it puts forward no ideas to think about.
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On March 13 2010 17:44 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 17:16 phosphorylation wrote:On March 13 2010 17:05 liosama wrote:On March 13 2010 16:37 0xDEADBEEF wrote:
3. This elitism thing has something true about it. I have read about a study which came to the conclusion that said something along the lines of "extroverted people who may not be as intelligent as others prefer listening to simpler, expressive music like Rap, Metal or stuff like that, while intelligent, maybe introverted people prefer listening to more complex music like Classical or Jazz (maybe also complex Rock music)". The more intelligent you are the more you can enjoy the more complex styles of music.
And I don't think this is far-fetched. If you're somewhat more intelligent than average, chances are you will be "bored" of "simple" music and prefer listening to something which "offers" much more, while if you aren't as intelligent you'll find the simpler music to be more enjoyable because it doesn't demand much attention from you. It doesn't have to be like that, of course, and it doesn't mean that one will *never* listen to the other type of music.
A distant friend of mine who is the most intelligent person I've ever met in my life, who now makes his Dr./PhD in Physics, also really likes music... what does he listen to? Rap/Hiphop? Pop? Rock? Metal? None of it (just from time to time)... he much prefers classical music. He also doesn't go to regular concerts but to orchestral performances of various classical works.
Coincidence? Maybe. But probably not... It has nothing to do with intelligence. I know really smart people who love pop music, and abhors classical music. in general though, most people i consider intelligent have at least an above average interest in classical music of course, there are exceptions and these people unfortunately just have not opened their eyes to the arts in general -- too occupied with their primary pursuit which they excel at -- although they are fully capable of appreciating "better' music i dont know, why do intelligent people have to want to enjoy intelligent music? stuff that sounds good sounds good regardless of how intricate or what not it is. i'm not a moron and i love g's like fat jon whoops, almost missed the 'better' music thing again
you have a point
going after what sounds good has its own merit.. and soemtimes i do that too
i'd like to refer that as seeking a musical drug -- it's completely legit
but to claim that is good music (or at least good art) is not really wise
i believe there are music that attains other goals -- nobler ones, imo
severedevil: that's coz you dont know what to look for
how can you know what ideas it's putting forth if you don't know the musical language?
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when i get right down to it, i listen to whatever music i listen to because i like the way it sounds. if i was on a different path, like some sort of music academia, then i would probably be more interested in another facet of music.
but i just cant sacrifice something like sound quality for other facets. it's essential to me
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On March 13 2010 18:32 Severedevil wrote:
I don't know what's 'intellectual' about classical music... it puts forward no ideas to think about.
it puts forward ideas to think about, it just requires a little more thinking from the listener. not necessarily intellectual
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On March 13 2010 18:48 JohnColtrane wrote:
when i get right down to it, i listen to whatever music i listen to because i like the way it sounds. if i was on a different path, like some sort of music academia, then i would probably be more interested in another facet of music.
but i just cant sacrifice something like sound quality for other facets. it's essential to me
as i said, i have abolustely no problems with that
but once you start (hypothetically) claiming rock music or whatever is a higher musical form than classical, then i might get irked
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EPT
