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Manit0u
Poland17544 Posts
They don't give a shit about their citizens there. It's the resources Tibet has that are on the line here and China (nor any other sane country) would let go of that easily. I wonder how one thing would play out though, if Obama went to meet DL and China in response would ban all American companies from having their manufacturing done for them there... Whole world would get a heart attack  | ||
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liosama
Australia843 Posts
, I believe that Buddhism is one of the religions most conducive to orderly society because it, at its very essence, disowns the notion of extremism. Anyway, just my take... I have some Buddhist family members and a buddhist roommate and they're all hardcore cool. Japanese and Korean history as well as a general understanding of religion as a whole speaks otherwise (not so sure on Chinese). Buddhism just like any other religion was used to gather the masses, create an autocracy for the elite and have them rule. It may be pleasant to look at, believe, and follow for your every day layman etc, but it is still a piece of shit excuse for rule and government. Every religion is beautiful in the sense you think of but when one walks over the line of secularity is when religion gets ugly, this goes without saying for Islam, Christianity and Judaism. I can easily take your statement and say "I have some Christian family members and Muslim and Jewish family members, and they're hardcore cool" Its the person you see who is cool, not the religion they follow that makes them so. That being said, the only reason DL has a voice is because US tend to be generally anti-China. If China were a much closer ally to the US than it is now, Tibet would just be another Palestine. So yes, sympathetic attitudes towards Tibet is not an American altruistic desire (which is an oxymoron by definition), but rather a means to meet a totally different end. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On February 02 2010 21:18 love1another wrote: I'm not saying anything about the Dalai Lama being violent, see my edited post. Whether or not he's a great guy, which he probably is, is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. China sees Tibet as a hopeless quagmire, only in a contested border region with South Asian powers that they are militarily obligated to hold. Furthermore, the presence of so many Han Chinese in the Tibetan territories makes it even more difficult for Beijing to say "Fuck it. You can go." And since the Dalai Lama is the head of the Tibetan independence movement, diplomatic talks with him would, as previous posters pointed out, be seen as the legitimization of a domestic rogue state. Rapid, unplanned independence of a partially integrated society, is never a good idea... see Yugoslavia post-Tito. Therefore, given China's lingering post-colonial paranoia, and the ethnic volatility in Tibet, any hopes at a stable, independent, Tibetan state are for the distant future. I'm guessing you're deriving your knowledge from news stories about Tibet. Tibetans obviously don't like the Chinese, but there's no widespread violence. There's a very large military presence in every major settlement in Tibet in addition to the police force. You're arrested for having a picture of the Dalai Lama, let alone hurting a Han. The recent monk "revolt" was sort of a last ditch desperation protest, in an attempt to disrupt China's attempt to make Tibet appear as a well integrated territory for the Olympics. + Show Spoiler [shootings] + Here's a video of Chinese soldiers gunning down a group of Tibetans trying to escape into India over a mountain pass. This is a lot more representative than this alleged widespread violence against Han. It's not a hopeless quagmire like Iraq, it's a very securely controlled region that has 0 chance of revolting. It's not a colony, it's an "Autonomous Region" held for historical/strategical purposes, and only recently did they encourage Han immigration. And it's better for them due to problems with integration is facetious. There's a government in exile in India, there's no integration, the Tibetans would be more than happy to just kick out all the Chinese and at least temporarily go back to a religious state. Infrastructure would suffer, but consider a good portion of the country are farmers, yak herders, monks, or small merchants. Crime would rise, but not enough for them to say, boy I long for the days of occupation. | ||
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love1another
United States1844 Posts
On February 02 2010 22:11 Manit0u wrote: They don't give a shit about their citizens there. It's the resources Tibet has that are on the line here and China (nor any other sane country) would let go of that easily. What natural resources, lol? I mean yeah. It's got tons of lithium and a decent amount of chromite, boron, and copper... but none of that is big-ticket stuff... like oil. I can see that argument working in some capacity, but in terms of accessibility, I don't think Tibet ranks high on any list. It's known as the world's "Third Pole" for a reason. | ||
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
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magicbullet
Singapore163 Posts
On February 02 2010 22:17 liosama wrote: Japanese and Korean history as well as a general understanding of religion as a whole speaks otherwise (not so sure on Chinese). Buddhism just like any other religion was used to gather the masses, create an autocracy for the elite and have them rule. When and where was Buddhism used to legitimize any autocratic rule? | ||
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love1another
United States1844 Posts
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lOvOlUNiMEDiA
United States643 Posts
On February 02 2010 22:28 J1.au wrote: All that economic growth has gotten into the Chinese leadership's heads. They have begun thinking that they're a global power comparable to the USA. The only reason they have any diplomatic power at all is because they bribe stupid Third World countries to follow their agenda. The Chinese government is all bark and no bite. You can't really do more than bark at this (at least not for a few decades): ![[image loading]](http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/defense.png) | ||
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liosama
Australia843 Posts
On February 02 2010 22:29 magicbullet wrote: When and where was Buddhism used to legitimize any autocratic rule? Kamakura Muromachi Edo | ||
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Smorrie
Netherlands2925 Posts
Random drama. Most likely Obama will meet with him anyway, China will make some weird statement about it and life continues. | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6639 Posts
On February 02 2010 22:39 lOvOlUNiMEDiA wrote: You can't really do more than bark at this (at least not for a few decades): Especially when you consider that the 1st, 2nd and 4th largest military budgets are all closely allied as well. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6331 Posts
And Al-Qaeda has never committed genocide, in the end all separatists are the same... | ||
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Ideas
United States8148 Posts
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Emon_
3925 Posts
On February 02 2010 21:07 Loanshark wrote: China does this to everyone who talks to the Dalai Lama, it's no big deal. Obama just needs to ignore the Chinese government, say nothing, and everyone will forget this. Maybe China feels like being buddies with the president of Iran. Exchange military intel ant the like. | ||
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exeexe
Denmark937 Posts
The pwn post of the month! The US may spend a hugemongus amount of money on military spending but it is China and Japan which is funding it: Foreign owners of US Treasury Securities (September 2009) Nation | billions of dollars | percentage People's Republic of China | 798.9 | 23.35% Japan | 751.5 | 21.13% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On February 02 2010 21:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Yeah you are right. They are totally similar to the al qaeda. The DL actually just wants to stir shit. His cause is pretty baseless and evil too when you get right down to it. lol You are so woefully ignorant of the matter it hurts. On February 02 2010 23:21 Emon_ wrote: Maybe China feels like being buddies with the president of Iran. Exchange military intel ant the like. But ... they're already doing that. Welcome to international politics >.<! | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On February 02 2010 22:48 fox[tail] wrote: Why the hell is the DL going to meet the president of a country that is currently fighting two wars, have been accused of countless atrocities in the past, and at the present time is creating a colony out of Haiti. Absolutely no good can come of this, if all these Tibetans want is to pray all day and live in the stone age, why can't they live in the stone age within China. And Al-Qaeda has never committed genocide, in the end all separatists are the same... Stop being a useless troll. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6331 Posts
How the hell am I trolling, the United States is not a bastion of peace is all I said, at least contribute something and say why it is instead of just labeling me a troll... Why was my post trolling? | ||
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Dracid
United States280 Posts
On February 02 2010 20:24 {88}iNcontroL wrote: So this is what the post F91/TSL TL.net looks like ^________________________________________^ Weren't you banned for derailing and trolling threads like this not too long ago? Adding smileys and lols to the end of every post doesn't make them witty either. I'm mostly neutral (out of ignorance) on the Tibet issue, but as that Penn and Teller video shows, I don't believe it's quite as simple as a bunch of peaceful monks wanting their freedom. China warning Obama not to meet with the Dalai Lama isn't surprising, nor would it be surprising if Obama goes and meets him anyway. China might act indignant about it, but things will probably go on as usual. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On February 02 2010 21:44 love1another wrote: Would you prefer the terms "Beijing," and "Lhasa" for disambiguation? I was going to argue your post towards me but you made me laugh, thanks  | ||
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