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On February 02 2010 20:27 emucxg wrote:
why Obama have to meet Dalai Lama?
Because the Dalai Lama is friends with Richard Gere:
Richard Gere was in Pretty Woman (1990) with Julia Roberts
Julia Roberts was in Flatliners (1990) with Kevin Bacon
The Dalai Lama's Bacon number is 3.
What you need more?
Maybe the President should meet with the leader of a unique culture, which is systematically being cleansed from the face of the Earth by a brutal regime, to focus the world's attention back on the plight of its people.
If you think the Chinese have a right to take the land of their neighbor or are merely enforcing their property rights; the facts are that the Tibetans are being brutalized and marginalized. It's no different than what is happening to the poor and disenfranchised in New Orleans and the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.
"Power" is defined as the ability to achieve your goals even as others stand in opposition to those goals. Powerful nations are run by powerful people. Powerful people can only wield the power ceded to them by others. (That's why a handful of people, right or wrong, with small arms and improvised explosive devices, can force the United States to declare a false victory and leave Iraq (and eventually Afghanistan)).
China will only be able to keep the leaders of the world from meeting with the Dalai Lama if they cede that power to them.
You can either stand up to protect those who can't protect themselves or you can put your jackboot on their neck.
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On February 02 2010 20:27 emucxg wrote:
why Obama have to meet Dalai Lama?
Wondering this as well, there's a lot more important shit he should be occupying his time with.
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Dalai Lama is like the nicest person on the planet, this is pretty lolz
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Didn't Obama specifically say: “we recognize that Tibet is part of the People’s Republic of China”, during his first visit to China? He isn't going to go back on what he said, especially if that means pissing off China, they are already in the shits after US firms shipped arms to Taiwan
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God I fucking hate ignorant foreigners discussing about Tibet.
As someone who lived in China for years and have traveled to Tibet twice, let me say this:
Tibet is FUCKED without China, structurally and economically. Period.
Stop all this "free Tibet" bullshit and China bashing. Get to know the facts and opinions from the other perspective, aka none of the major English news sites, and you'll think much differently.
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On February 02 2010 22:48 fox[tail] wrote:
Why the hell is the DL going to meet the president of a country that is currently fighting two wars, have been accused of countless atrocities in the past, and at the present time is creating a colony out of Haiti. Absolutely no good can come of this, if all these Tibetans want is to pray all day and live in the stone age, why can't they live in the stone age within China.
And Al-Qaeda has never committed genocide, in the end all separatists are the same...
That's a good question, i don't think your trolling.
Plain and simple, nobody of any faith should want to meet with our government, we've brutalized and humiliated Iraq (killing over 1 million civilians) and are allowing Afghanistan to become the opium hub of the world.
While the US is based on very good principles of freedom and individual rights, it clearly no longer represents those values.
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As for China and Tibet, it's pretty obvious that the policy over there is 'dissent = treason' It's really horrible, as far as citizen's rights go, secret arrests, political prisoners, massive amount of executions etc... In view of Tibet, even small religious dissent is against the government and the party, and thus, by perverted socialistic reasoning, the people.
Anyone ever read about the "Mobile Death Vans" now being imlemented? It is frightening stuff.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1165416/Chinas-hi-tech-death-van-criminals-executed-organs-sold-black-market.html
Anyway,as an Amercan, i can try to focus on fixing the mess here, and pray for them as well.
(this is in no way a disrespect to chinese people or a flame, just my opinions about the governement)
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On February 02 2010 22:48 fox[tail] wrote:
Why the hell is the DL going to meet the president of a country that is currently fighting two wars, have been accused of countless atrocities in the past, and at the present time is creating a colony out of Haiti. Absolutely no good can come of this, if all these Tibetans want is to pray all day and live in the stone age, why can't they live in the stone age within China.
And Al-Qaeda has never committed genocide, in the end all separatists are the same...
In the end all separatists are the same ...
Just like your national heroes of the past? Why isn't Serbia still under Ottoman rule? You are just saying that now, because Serbia sits on the other side of the table regarding Kosovo.
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On February 02 2010 23:54 Dracid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2010 20:24 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
So this is what the post F91/TSL TL.net looks like
^________________________________________^ Weren't you banned for derailing and trolling threads like this not too long ago? Adding smileys and lols to the end of every post doesn't make them witty either. I'm mostly neutral (out of ignorance) on the Tibet issue, but as that Penn and Teller video shows, I don't believe it's quite as simple as a bunch of peaceful monks wanting their freedom. China warning Obama not to meet with the Dalai Lama isn't surprising, nor would it be surprising if Obama goes and meets him anyway. China might act indignant about it, but things will probably go on as usual.
He has a well deserved reputation as an unrepentant troll on this site. It's best to ignore posts such as that from him.
As for Tibet, it's only natural that China would oppose the meeting between any official foreign dignitary and the Dalai Lama. China considers Tibet to be a part of its territory, and as with nearly all other nations, it rates territorial integrity as a high priority at any time. Acquiescing to what amounts to official recognition of the area's previous owners would obviously go against that. Factors such as "right" or "wrong", highly ambiguous and interpretative moral standards, and whether or not Tibet holds significant resources are largely irrelevant. The point is that China has acquired the area and considers it its own, and until such time that a successful revolution or direct foreign intervention changes the area's ownership, this entire discussion serves little purpose.
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Yes, the Chinese government believes Tibet is part of the country, but the Chinese government is also brutally authoritarian, anti-free speech, and uses mobile execution vans.
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On February 03 2010 00:28 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2010 22:48 fox[tail] wrote:
Why the hell is the DL going to meet the president of a country that is currently fighting two wars, have been accused of countless atrocities in the past, and at the present time is creating a colony out of Haiti. Absolutely no good can come of this, if all these Tibetans want is to pray all day and live in the stone age, why can't they live in the stone age within China.
And Al-Qaeda has never committed genocide, in the end all separatists are the same... In the end all separatists are the same ... Just like your national heroes of the past? Why isn't Serbia still under Ottoman rule? You are just saying that now, because Serbia sits on the other side of the table regarding Kosovo.
Well... yes... almost every nation was born from war, 400-500 years of oppression, then a bloody separatist rebellion, and we overthrew the Ottomans. We were fucked in 1941, same thing, a resistance movement and through violence we freed ourselves.
America was born the same way, through violence, look at Africa, Asia, South America, all separatist movements
OK maybe not the Commonwealth....
EDIT: Tibet won't die as long as their are people who call themselves Tibetans, maybe in 200-300 years China will be vulnerable and these people can win their war of independence. But because of globalism there won't be any 'countries' anyway so whats the point, they will have autonomy within the United states of Asia and Oceania at best
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On February 03 2010 00:34 pioneer8 wrote:
Yes, the Chinese government believes Tibet is part of the country, but the Chinese government is also brutally authoritarian, anti-free speech, and uses mobile execution vans.
Their belief is the one that matters. Unless, of course, you care to contest it with them directly?
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in my opinion this has to do with america, or the ppl in power, trying to fk their own people up so the rich get richer by destroying america's economy and bringing their people into more of a deficit by forcing china to act
poor americans... country being used for the dirty work of the rich
obama is nothing but a puppet and in the coming years we will see globalization and world taxes become an everyday thing
i haven't been following all too closely with these issues but yes you could call me a pro conspiracy theorist
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On February 03 2010 00:36 Draconizard wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2010 00:34 pioneer8 wrote:
Yes, the Chinese government believes Tibet is part of the country, but the Chinese government is also brutally authoritarian, anti-free speech, and uses mobile execution vans. Their belief is the one that matters. Unless, of course, you care to contest it with them directly?
Lol, Draconizard, the point i was trying to make is that there is an obvious moral perspective. It's something everyone needs to think about before making conclusions, and not falling into the lazy spell that "everything is Okay in China," that many want to believe, but in reality is very far from the truth.
Read about the execution vans They quote a figure of 1715 executions last year. I'd be willing to bet that it is easily 10x that, perhaps even 100x. All the people that die at the work camps and prisons i'm sure arent included in that figure as well. (Yes, China has forced work camps)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1165416/Chinas-hi-tech-death-van-criminals-executed-organs-sold-black-market.html
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On February 03 2010 00:45 pioneer8 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2010 00:36 Draconizard wrote:On February 03 2010 00:34 pioneer8 wrote:
Yes, the Chinese government believes Tibet is part of the country, but the Chinese government is also brutally authoritarian, anti-free speech, and uses mobile execution vans. Their belief is the one that matters. Unless, of course, you care to contest it with them directly? Lol, Draconizard, the point i was trying to make is that there is an obvious moral perspective. It's something everyone needs to think about before making conclusions, and not falling into the lazy spell that "everything is Okay in China," that many want to believe, but in reality is very far from the truth. Read about the execution vans They quote a figure of 1715 executions last year. I'd be willing to bet that it is easily 10x that, perhaps even 100x. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1165416/Chinas-hi-tech-death-van-criminals-executed-organs-sold-black-market.html
Really, an argument from morality? How quaint...
Moral standards have little applicability to entities such as nations. You could perhaps make an argument that such a standard exists for individuals, but I'd strongly contest that as well. You could say that you oppose the acts in which China indulges as a nation and that they offend you for whatever reason, but then to say that either they or you are right or wrong is completely meaningless. They partake in activity X; you oppose X. That's really all there is.
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There doesn't seem to be much of a moral aspect here to me. As mentioned earlier, if Texas decided it wanted its independence, the US wouldn't be happy with other countries talking with the leader of Texas either.
Not to mention how skewed your understanding of morality regarding China is if you only read the story from a western perspective.
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On February 03 2010 00:53 Draconizard wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2010 00:45 pioneer8 wrote:On February 03 2010 00:36 Draconizard wrote:On February 03 2010 00:34 pioneer8 wrote:
Yes, the Chinese government believes Tibet is part of the country, but the Chinese government is also brutally authoritarian, anti-free speech, and uses mobile execution vans. Their belief is the one that matters. Unless, of course, you care to contest it with them directly? Lol, Draconizard, the point i was trying to make is that there is an obvious moral perspective. It's something everyone needs to think about before making conclusions, and not falling into the lazy spell that "everything is Okay in China," that many want to believe, but in reality is very far from the truth. Read about the execution vans They quote a figure of 1715 executions last year. I'd be willing to bet that it is easily 10x that, perhaps even 100x. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1165416/Chinas-hi-tech-death-van-criminals-executed-organs-sold-black-market.html Really, an argument from morality? How quaint... Moral standards have little applicability to entities such as nations. You could perhaps make an argument that such a standard exists for individuals, but I'd strongly contest that as well. You could say that you oppose the acts in which China indulges as a nation and that they offend you for whatever reason, but then to say that either they or you are right or wrong is completely meaningless. They partake in activity X; you oppose X. That's really all there is.
Unsure whether you're roleplaying or are seriously stating your opinion, which is ignorant at many levels and just all around arrogant.
Yes, killing people for believing something differently than i do is wrong.
Perhaps it's meaningless to you now, but i know you'll change your tune when the rifles are pointed at you.
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The moral aspect in relation to Tibet is that the peaceful Tibetan Buddhists are being persecuted for very mild dissent against the government. It sets the precedent, if it hadn't already been set, that mild dissent = treason. This is in addition to the controversial annexation of Tibet by China, which happened in the 1950's.
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China: "You stop dat or we dunt cooperate with yooooz anymore"
Obama: "I'm doing this because you were going out of your way to be antogonistic and uncooperative anyways."
China: "You stop dat rite nao or we dunt cooperate with yooooz for realz"
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the dalai lama met with both bush and clinton
we haven't gone to war yet
we'll be fine
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EPT![[image loading]](http://jamie-online.com/random-jamz/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/facepalm.jpg)
