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China warns Obama not to meet with Dalai Lama - Page 5

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Poly325
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States99 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-02 17:02:40
February 02 2010 17:01 GMT
#81
DL rubbish, haha.

hope you people all realize that the DL is funded by the Center for Democracy to the tune of $150,000 per year. Center for Democracy is a CIA funded organization that has existed since the Cold War, and its written objectives is to "fight communism, especially Russia and China". Flying around the world and traveling in style, where do you think he gets the money to do any of this? Not from his loyal brainwashed religious slaves in Tibet obviously.
Live life with all of your heart
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
February 02 2010 17:06 GMT
#82
On February 03 2010 00:59 pioneer8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2010 00:53 Draconizard wrote:
On February 03 2010 00:45 pioneer8 wrote:
On February 03 2010 00:36 Draconizard wrote:
On February 03 2010 00:34 pioneer8 wrote:
Yes, the Chinese government believes Tibet is part of the country, but the Chinese government is also brutally authoritarian, anti-free speech, and uses mobile execution vans.


Their belief is the one that matters. Unless, of course, you care to contest it with them directly?



Lol, Draconizard, the point i was trying to make is that there is an obvious moral perspective. It's something everyone needs to think about before making conclusions, and not falling into the lazy spell that "everything is Okay in China," that many want to believe, but in reality is very far from the truth.


Read about the execution vans They quote a figure of 1715 executions last year. I'd be willing to bet that it is easily 10x that, perhaps even 100x.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1165416/Chinas-hi-tech-death-van-criminals-executed-organs-sold-black-market.html


Really, an argument from morality? How quaint...

Moral standards have little applicability to entities such as nations. You could perhaps make an argument that such a standard exists for individuals, but I'd strongly contest that as well. You could say that you oppose the acts in which China indulges as a nation and that they offend you for whatever reason, but then to say that either they or you are right or wrong is completely meaningless. They partake in activity X; you oppose X. That's really all there is.



Unsure whether you're roleplaying or are seriously stating your opinion, which is ignorant at many levels and just all around arrogant.

Yes, killing people for believing something differently than i do is wrong.

Perhaps it's meaningless to you now, but i know you'll change your tune when the rifles are pointed at you.


----


The moral aspect in relation to Tibet is that the peaceful Tibetan Buddhists are being persecuted for very mild dissent against the government. It sets the precedent, if it hadn't already been set, that mild dissent = treason. This is in addition to the controversial annexation of Tibet by China, which happened in the 1950's.

It takes a much more complete argument then that to state that killing other people for believing something different than you is wrong, or that morals exist at all. For you to simply dismiss that school of thought entirely is "ignorant at many levels and just all around arrogant", and I would avoid doing so.
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
pioneer8
Profile Joined January 2010
United States143 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-02 17:19:33
February 02 2010 17:18 GMT
#83
Your disbelief in morals does not mean that they do not exist. Such things are self-evident.


These things are mainly based on empathy and sympathy, natural and healthy human emotions. A psychopath is someone incapable of empathy, and it is known as a real mental condition. The simplest of human emotions dont need to be explained.

The lack of sympathy for those suffering is the source of arrogance.

It didn't take me very long to explain...

iloahz
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States964 Posts
February 02 2010 17:19 GMT
#84
On February 02 2010 20:33 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2010 20:28 Chen wrote:
The political reason is that by meeting with the Dalai Llama the US officially recognizes them and its seen as a show of support for that nation, which undermines the Chinese position.
Can you imagine the outrage if the Chinese or Russian representatives met with Al Qaeda to broker a "peace"? extreme example obviously but that's partly what the Chinese government thinks.


Al Qaeda -> 9/11, suicide bombs, extreme messages of murder, genocide etc
Tibet/DL -> peaceful protests, extreme messages of independence, freedom and religious expression

=same?

I'd argue not.


peaceful protests my ass LOL. It has ALWAYS been violence, slavery, and theocracy.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
February 02 2010 17:25 GMT
#85
On February 03 2010 00:59 pioneer8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2010 00:53 Draconizard wrote:
On February 03 2010 00:45 pioneer8 wrote:
On February 03 2010 00:36 Draconizard wrote:
On February 03 2010 00:34 pioneer8 wrote:
Yes, the Chinese government believes Tibet is part of the country, but the Chinese government is also brutally authoritarian, anti-free speech, and uses mobile execution vans.


Their belief is the one that matters. Unless, of course, you care to contest it with them directly?



Lol, Draconizard, the point i was trying to make is that there is an obvious moral perspective. It's something everyone needs to think about before making conclusions, and not falling into the lazy spell that "everything is Okay in China," that many want to believe, but in reality is very far from the truth.


Read about the execution vans They quote a figure of 1715 executions last year. I'd be willing to bet that it is easily 10x that, perhaps even 100x.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1165416/Chinas-hi-tech-death-van-criminals-executed-organs-sold-black-market.html


Really, an argument from morality? How quaint...

Moral standards have little applicability to entities such as nations. You could perhaps make an argument that such a standard exists for individuals, but I'd strongly contest that as well. You could say that you oppose the acts in which China indulges as a nation and that they offend you for whatever reason, but then to say that either they or you are right or wrong is completely meaningless. They partake in activity X; you oppose X. That's really all there is.



Unsure whether you're roleplaying or are seriously stating your opinion, which is ignorant at many levels and just all around arrogant.

Yes, killing people for believing something differently than i do is wrong.

Perhaps it's meaningless to you now, but i know you'll change your tune when the rifles are pointed at you.


----


The moral aspect in relation to Tibet is that the peaceful Tibetan Buddhists are being persecuted for very mild dissent against the government. It sets the precedent, if it hadn't already been set, that mild dissent = treason. This is in addition to the controversial annexation of Tibet by China, which happened in the 1950's.



Well killing people for believing the same things as you is wrong too, it's much easier to say that killing people in general is wrong.
In the end we just keep going in circles, we tend to believe what we (our nation or people) do is right and the other guy (nation or people) is wrong... and we keep saying the same things over and over and over...
“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-02 17:27:03
February 02 2010 17:25 GMT
#86
The DL has nothing to do with any sort of violent or harmful protest. Anyone who thinks otherwise obviously does not understand what the DL is.
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
February 02 2010 17:34 GMT
#87
On February 03 2010 00:26 WheelOfTime wrote:
God I fucking hate ignorant foreigners discussing about Tibet.

As someone who lived in China for years and have traveled to Tibet twice, let me say this:

Tibet is FUCKED without China, structurally and economically. Period.

Stop all this "free Tibet" bullshit and China bashing. Get to know the facts and opinions from the other perspective, aka none of the major English news sites, and you'll think much differently.


How many Tibetans have you discussed this with? Assuming you're not ethnically Chinese and that you didn't speak to them in Chinese.
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
February 02 2010 17:39 GMT
#88
On February 03 2010 02:18 pioneer8 wrote:
Your disbelief in morals does not mean that they do not exist. Such things are self-evident.


These things are mainly based on empathy and sympathy, natural and healthy human emotions. A psychopath is someone incapable of empathy, and it is known as a real mental condition. The simplest of human emotions dont need to be explained.

The lack of sympathy for those suffering is the source of arrogance.

It didn't take me very long to explain...


And your belief in morals does not mean that they do...

And to define something as healthy? According to who? Health is simply the average. The most common condition. Nothing other then that makes psychopaths unhealthy and you healthy, and it could easily be the other way around.
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
February 02 2010 17:41 GMT
#89
I was just watching this on the West Wing where they just accidentally run into the dude. Like, "Oh, D.L., didn't know you were in the mural room!"

ezpz
pioneer8
Profile Joined January 2010
United States143 Posts
February 02 2010 17:45 GMT
#90
In relation to Starcraft and E-sports, i wonder if any western pro's now or in the future boycott Chinese tournaments. It would send a strong message to the Chinese people and young people everywhere that the Communist party in China that has killed more people ever, than any government or entity in the history of the world, is unacceptable, as are the crimes against free speech, imprisonment, and forced labor of mostly peaceful people.


I know that most WC3 tournaments are now in China, and that is dissapointing, and i doubt any gamers to lose their livlihood, but it may be interesting as SC2 comes up with more international tournaments. I wouldn't compete there, not out of any disrespect for the Chinese people, but to send a message to the people. Something like this could actually do alot of good.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
February 02 2010 17:45 GMT
#91
On February 03 2010 02:39 seppolevne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2010 02:18 pioneer8 wrote:
Your disbelief in morals does not mean that they do not exist. Such things are self-evident.


These things are mainly based on empathy and sympathy, natural and healthy human emotions. A psychopath is someone incapable of empathy, and it is known as a real mental condition. The simplest of human emotions dont need to be explained.

The lack of sympathy for those suffering is the source of arrogance.

It didn't take me very long to explain...


And your belief in morals does not mean that they do...

And to define something as healthy? According to who? Health is simply the average. The most common condition. Nothing other then that makes psychopaths unhealthy and you healthy, and it could easily be the other way around.


It's true that things are relative, but you are taking things to too far an extreme. A healthy mind is a rational and functional mind. Health is clearly and accurately defined in a dictionary. It has nothing to do with an average.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
February 02 2010 17:47 GMT
#92
On February 03 2010 02:34 igotmyown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2010 00:26 WheelOfTime wrote:
God I fucking hate ignorant foreigners discussing about Tibet.

As someone who lived in China for years and have traveled to Tibet twice, let me say this:

Tibet is FUCKED without China, structurally and economically. Period.

Stop all this "free Tibet" bullshit and China bashing. Get to know the facts and opinions from the other perspective, aka none of the major English news sites, and you'll think much differently.


How many Tibetans have you discussed this with? Assuming you're not ethnically Chinese and that you didn't speak to them in Chinese.


What someone believes is good for them at what in reality is good for them are two different things, you can't expect that talking with a separatist will get you a non-biased view. I'm not saying the Chinese way is better but in the end it's a problem that China and the exiled government of Tibet have to work out on their own. Me and you won't be living in Tibet, I will certainly never go to Tibet, and Tibet is better off with China.
“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
February 02 2010 17:51 GMT
#93
On February 03 2010 02:47 fox[tail] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2010 02:34 igotmyown wrote:
On February 03 2010 00:26 WheelOfTime wrote:
God I fucking hate ignorant foreigners discussing about Tibet.

As someone who lived in China for years and have traveled to Tibet twice, let me say this:

Tibet is FUCKED without China, structurally and economically. Period.

Stop all this "free Tibet" bullshit and China bashing. Get to know the facts and opinions from the other perspective, aka none of the major English news sites, and you'll think much differently.


How many Tibetans have you discussed this with? Assuming you're not ethnically Chinese and that you didn't speak to them in Chinese.


What someone believes is good for them at what in reality is good for them are two different things, you can't expect that talking with a separatist will get you a non-biased view. I'm not saying the Chinese way is better but in the end it's a problem that China and the exiled government of Tibet have to work out on their own. Me and you won't be living in Tibet, I will certainly never go to Tibet, and Tibet is better off with China.


How can you say definitively that Tibet is better off with China? Was there mass starvation or sickness in Tibet that I was unaware of before China decided to invade?
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
February 02 2010 17:52 GMT
#94
On February 03 2010 02:45 pioneer8 wrote:
In relation to Starcraft and E-sports, i wonder if any western pro's now or in the future boycott Chinese tournaments. It would send a strong message to the Chinese people and young people everywhere that the Communist party in China that has killed more people ever, than any government or entity in the history of the world, is unacceptable, as are the crimes against free speech, imprisonment, and forced labor of mostly peaceful people.


I know that most WC3 tournaments are now in China, and that is dissapointing, and i doubt any gamers to lose their livlihood, but it may be interesting as SC2 comes up with more international tournaments. I wouldn't compete there, not out of any disrespect for the Chinese people, but to send a message to the people. Something like this could actually do alot of good.


WTF!!!!! 'has killed more people ever, than any government or entity in the history of the world'

Ever heard of Genghis Khan... The Timurid Empire... The Qing dynasty

“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
February 02 2010 17:53 GMT
#95
...this is absolutely retarted
and HOW would this threaten US / China relations?
cw)minsean(ru
iloahz
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States964 Posts
February 02 2010 17:56 GMT
#96
On February 03 2010 02:51 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2010 02:47 fox[tail] wrote:
On February 03 2010 02:34 igotmyown wrote:
On February 03 2010 00:26 WheelOfTime wrote:
God I fucking hate ignorant foreigners discussing about Tibet.

As someone who lived in China for years and have traveled to Tibet twice, let me say this:

Tibet is FUCKED without China, structurally and economically. Period.

Stop all this "free Tibet" bullshit and China bashing. Get to know the facts and opinions from the other perspective, aka none of the major English news sites, and you'll think much differently.


How many Tibetans have you discussed this with? Assuming you're not ethnically Chinese and that you didn't speak to them in Chinese.


What someone believes is good for them at what in reality is good for them are two different things, you can't expect that talking with a separatist will get you a non-biased view. I'm not saying the Chinese way is better but in the end it's a problem that China and the exiled government of Tibet have to work out on their own. Me and you won't be living in Tibet, I will certainly never go to Tibet, and Tibet is better off with China.


How can you say definitively that Tibet is better off with China? Was there mass starvation or sickness in Tibet that I was unaware of before China decided to invade?


http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=68073&postdays=0&postorder=asc&topic_view=&start=0&sid=88252ea448cc9ea54cd87de633c21bbe
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-02 18:01:48
February 02 2010 17:58 GMT
#97
ok no, this is taking too long, it needs to get to the point.

if you are going to tell me you have any sort of definitive evidence tibet is "better off with china", then please sum it up. because I got about 4 paragraphs down and I hadn't seen anything whatsoever.
Dracid
Profile Joined December 2009
United States280 Posts
February 02 2010 17:59 GMT
#98
Pioneer8:
...You really buy into what the western media feeds you don't you?

Look, there are problems with China, but if you'd bother to learn even the slightest bit about what life is like in China, you'd realize that the western depiction of China is severely flawed and biased. The Chinese government does not exist solely to make its people miserable, and it'd be really nice if people understood that once in a while.

Not to mention that a pro gamer's boycott would seriously accomplish nothing. A significant amount of athletes boycotting the Beijing Olympics might have gotten a message across, but not pro gamers.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
February 02 2010 18:01 GMT
#99
On February 03 2010 02:51 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2010 02:47 fox[tail] wrote:
On February 03 2010 02:34 igotmyown wrote:
On February 03 2010 00:26 WheelOfTime wrote:
God I fucking hate ignorant foreigners discussing about Tibet.

As someone who lived in China for years and have traveled to Tibet twice, let me say this:

Tibet is FUCKED without China, structurally and economically. Period.

Stop all this "free Tibet" bullshit and China bashing. Get to know the facts and opinions from the other perspective, aka none of the major English news sites, and you'll think much differently.


How many Tibetans have you discussed this with? Assuming you're not ethnically Chinese and that you didn't speak to them in Chinese.


What someone believes is good for them at what in reality is good for them are two different things, you can't expect that talking with a separatist will get you a non-biased view. I'm not saying the Chinese way is better but in the end it's a problem that China and the exiled government of Tibet have to work out on their own. Me and you won't be living in Tibet, I will certainly never go to Tibet, and Tibet is better off with China.


How can you say definitively that Tibet is better off with China? Was there mass starvation or sickness in Tibet that I was unaware of before China decided to invade?


What the Chinese are planing:

"Chinese President Hu Jintao and other senior leaders attending the fifth meeting on the work of Tibet, from January 18 to 20, agreed that more efforts must be made to greatly improve living standards of the people in Tibet, as well as ethnic unity and stability.

In his speech, Hu attached great importance to the work of Tibet, saying it was a pressing task in carrying out the Scientific Outlook on Development, building a well-off society in an all-round way, establishing a national ecological protective screen and realizing sustainable development.

The work was also vital to ethnic unity, social stability and national security, as well as a favorable international environment, he added.

Hu outlined the guidelines for social and economic development of Tibet in the next decade.

He said by 2020 the per capita net income of farmers and herds people in Tibet should be close to the national level.

Tibet's capacity to provide public service and infrastructure must also be comparable to the nation's average by 2020, through more government investment and better management.

Hu said greater emphasis must be put on the improvement of the livelihood of Tibetan farmers and herdsmen, a better coordination of social-economic development, Tibet's capacity of self development, and environmental protection.

"Leapfrog development of Tibet actually means the combination of economic growth, well-off life, a healthy eco-environment, and social stability and progress," he said.

He stressed Tibet's significance in ensuring China's national security, and efforts in building the region into a strategic reserve of natural resources, an agricultural production base, a land with unique culture and a world-class tourism destination.

Hu said agriculture, animal husbandry, tourism, handicraft industry, and resource development would enjoy more support.

In order to further improve the livelihood of Tibetan people, more government budget will go to public services, such as education, medical services, telecommunication, and social security network that covers both urban and rural residents.

Other senior leaders attending the meeting included Wu Bangguo, Wen Jiabao, Jia Qinglin, Li Changchun, Xi Jinping, Li Keqiang, He Guoqiang and Zhou Yongkang.

Premier Wen Jiabao said priorities should be given to people's livelihood, social services, infrastructure, industries with regional features and environmental protection.

Speaking of education, he said free education would be offered for all the children of farmers and herdsmen in primary schools and junior and senior high schools.

The central government would preserve the consistency and stability of favorable policies towards Tibet and further improve policy support and financial investment in the region.

Wen pledged more efforts to cultivate talents for the development of Tibet, and encouraged other parts of China to provide cadre, talents, technological and financial support for it."

The future of Tibet is bright
“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
February 02 2010 18:02 GMT
#100
China won't do a damn thing if Obama goes and sees him. They need us as much as we need them.

Obama will see him, there will be some rhetoric thrown at the media, and a week later everyone will have forgotten (China included).
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