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On June 25 2011 04:22 Soap wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 03:48 ain wrote:On June 25 2011 02:42 hagon wrote:On June 25 2011 02:03 ain wrote:On June 25 2011 01:41 Soap wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The change is essentially cosmetic, that is: instead of buying and then selling game time for ingame money to buy stuff, you just buy stuff. All this mess derives from the idea that microtransactions = eve will become a facebook game. yes but plex does not allow you to buy anything a normal player cannot. If MT trading allows you to but things that only aur can purchase- that is better than anything in game- then i am gong to have a problem. ![[image loading]](http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/currencyCycle_t.jpg) We can buy aurum with ISK anyway. It has been established before that there is more to it than that, maybe you go back and read Firebolt's posts again. I really don't see that it has been established. See the two quotes from the "leaked" CCP document I posted before. Also, if I fit T2 fit a battle ship it is most likely a superior ship to a T1 fitted battleship. I have achieved superiority by having more capital. If I decide that I don't want to wait 12 months to reach a certain amount of SP and purchase a character from the character bazaar: I have achieved superiority by having more capital. Missed the point, the point being that the change from PLEX to AUR is quite different and not just cosmetic as Soap tried to point out. I even put a picture. Let's try with an example: Say I want to buy a Mach. I buy $xx in PLEX and sell them ingame to buy the ship. Now that Mach is available at the Noble Exchange. I buy the ship with $xx. There's no difference except it's less troublesome. What do you think, some magnate is going to buy a fleet of officer fit pirate BS and break the game? He already can do it through PLEX. It would only change at all if CCP royally screws the pricing, changing the ISK/$ ratio and causing PLEX to skyrocket. That is fixed by raising the prices, and judging by those lol-worthy "articles" on CCP's greed, they would be most pleased to do it. edit: for clarity.
I don't post here often, but this post is so wrong it begs for redaction. The reason gameplay altering microtransactions would destroy EVE is because it removes the very sand used in the sandbox of the game itself. When you buy a PLEX and sell it on the market for isk, no new isk was made in the system - somebody had to desire that plex and agreed to your offer. The PLEX market itself is self-regulating through the same market mechanics that all other items in EVE are regulated by - you don't turn $15 into ~400mil, you turn $15 into a PLEX, and the PLEX's isk value is determined by the market.
So you sold two plex and bought a Mach. Awesome. You sold a third, and mildly pimp fit it. Cool. Here is the other important distinction: That Mach, and all the modules you just bought and fit to it, were built and sold by other players. Those players had to go do a high-difficutly complex out in dangerous space, and not only clear the site, but get lucky enough for a Mach BPC to drop. Then they had to transport that BPC out, back into empire, buy minerals (which come from other players doing mining and selling THEIR wares on the market), build the ship, and then sell it. All of that is part of the sandbox - maybe the player who originally got the BPC was intercepted in a bubble camp and killed, maybe those minerals were stolen from jet can miners, etc.
The entire point of PLEX is that it restricts the RMT market in EVE while preserving the meaning of actions inside of it. Are you spacerich? Buy plex. Are you spacepoor? Sell them. Either way, everything resolves around the ISK, not the dollar or the euro.
By offering to sell gameplay impacting items or services through arum, the isk link is irrevocably severed. You can buy that pimp fit Mach through $ the same as before, but now that ship is spawned into existence through the in-game equivalent of black magick. There was no complex running, no mining, no logistics, no market transactions, no chance for emergent gameplay, just a real life wallet transaction and a resulting ship was added to your hanger. Thats not EVE, thats some generic bad F2P MMO that has to have power-boosting micro transactions to stay afloat.
Even worse, there is no market to regulate the price of that black-magic Macherial you just bought in the noble exchange. It costs XXXX arum, and it will cost that much even if everybody wants one or no-one wants one. CCP has already proven incredibly incompetent in any self-regulating isk mechanism (insurance payouts, mission payouts, etc. all supposedly use a "self-regulating formula", but never change meaningfully). Faction battleships are expensive because they are both powerful and rare, and therefore there is strong demand and little supply. There is no such thing as a demand curve when the game itself spawns the ship, just the ever present option to spawn something into existence for a fixed cost.
Game impacting micro-transactions will destroy EVE, instantly and irrevocably. The intense shitstorm on EVE-O, Failheap, and others is a result of both CCPs impossibly incompetent management, and the very real possibility this doomsday scenario would come to pass. Without exaggeration, this is CCP's NGE litmus test - and they are failing it.
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Why is the black magic plex acceptable and not the black magic machariel, in the end it all gets regulated through the market and as long as its priced adequately wont affect the gameplay of anyone at all. (Personnally I dont really care if the machariel I buy to pvp is created out of black magic or has been transported 20j through null). Its not like if people will stop doing those 20j through nullsec for mach bpc just because things can suddenly be created ...
also holy shit at above..exagerate more...godddamnnn
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On June 25 2011 10:00 TurpinOS wrote:
Why is the black magic plex acceptable and not the black magic machariel, in the end it all gets regulated through the market and as long as its priced adequately wont affect the gameplay of anyone at all. (Personnally I dont really care if the machariel I buy to pvp is created out of black magic or has been transported 20j through null). Its not like if people will stop doing those 20j through nullsec for mach bpc just because things can suddenly be created ...
also holy shit at above..exagerate more...godddamnnn
Because a plex has no in game use other than as currency. A mordu legion drake or whatever does.
Lets say that PL suddenly wants 10 titans, and titans are offered in the aurum store. Before, they would need to plan ahead, mine a shitton of minerals, get titan bpcs, have supercap assembly arrays anchored and so on. With aurum, they just spend $$$$ and poof, instant titans.
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That's quite the internet activism: take something with a hint of controversy and blow it out of proportion to strong-arm the developer into doing something to massage your ego.
To assume that ingame transactions will be taken over by real money to the point of compromising the manufacturing chain is as plausible as to say that no one missions or mines for ISK anymore because we can buy it with PLEX.
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in other news im fucking bad at this game i should stick to PvE
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Well I'd love to get in on the 21 day trial buddy thing but only if there's a guarantee I can make enough isk for the free playtime before my first month runs out (21+30 days after purchase?).
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On June 25 2011 12:28 DarKcS wrote:
Well I'd love to get in on the 21 day trial buddy thing but only if there's a guarantee I can make enough isk for the free playtime before my first month runs out (21+30 days after purchase?).
I dunno. Can you?
(this is like saying 'ya i'll move into this apartment but only if there's a guarantee i can pay rent after the first month')
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On June 25 2011 12:53 tmonet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 12:28 DarKcS wrote:
Well I'd love to get in on the 21 day trial buddy thing but only if there's a guarantee I can make enough isk for the free playtime before my first month runs out (21+30 days after purchase?). I dunno. Can you? (this is like saying 'ya i'll move into this apartment but only if there's a guarantee i can pay rent after the first month')
I Dno the OP seems to promise there are mentors who can do amazing things to make that happen.
Also how is that true? I'm paying $20 to active+first month after the trial and my mentor gets a free month - I'm just curious if 47 days of playtime is enough to make 380m ISK (free month?) with help.
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It is possible to make that much in 47 days you just need to dedicate a large amount of spare time to doing it. You would pretty much have to salvage none stop for quite a while to keep your account active each month. Getting in a destroyer with salvagers and tractor beams and just following someone doing level 4 missions will get you enough in 47 days.
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The only limiting factor is how often people are running missions you can salvage. You can make a ton of money from it, but if nobody's running them..
On June 25 2011 12:04 psycroptic wrote:
in other news im fucking bad at this game i should stick to PvE
this is what I am doing
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Any mentor will give you 200-250mil just for subscribing which means youre not that are away from a plex
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On June 25 2011 12:55 DarKcS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 12:53 tmonet wrote:On June 25 2011 12:28 DarKcS wrote:
Well I'd love to get in on the 21 day trial buddy thing but only if there's a guarantee I can make enough isk for the free playtime before my first month runs out (21+30 days after purchase?). I dunno. Can you? (this is like saying 'ya i'll move into this apartment but only if there's a guarantee i can pay rent after the first month') I Dno the OP seems to promise there are mentors who can do amazing things to make that happen. Also how is that true? I'm paying $20 to active+first month after the trial and my mentor gets a free month - I'm just curious if 47 days of playtime is enough to make 380m ISK (free month?) with help.
It's easy if you carebear. If you ninja salvage like me you can make around ten million isk an hour, so plex in forty hours. Then again, if you continue to be like me you'll end up with a fleet of rifters spread from odd to rens, which may hinder you.
Edit: to ninja salvage you'll need to take time to probe down a mission runner. Not hard, but you do have to train for it and its easier to just follow someone in corp who's missing. I just find that I'm never on when this happens
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Probed down 3 separate mission runners throughout the night.
Tengu, we had rifters land in his mission but he warped out barely. Then a cyclone, same thing, (except we all just warped in at once -o). Then a drake, that happened to warp out right as we went in. On that note, I have a couple more days to put into probing supports :D
In other news...
asteroids DO kill people! fml
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Netherlands19137 Posts
VoV made a plex on a brand new account while probing by playing in the evenings in less then a week. So yeah, if you put your mind to it, no biggy.
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United States354 Posts
think the big thing about making that amount of money is it can take a decent amount of times played and its not the most exciting thing to do.
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Its a big talk on the forums about MT. Ingame people are still blowing eachother up and not talking much about it. Forum warrior brigade is doing well to.
Best giggle read: "I wish eve forums were moderated like teamliquid.net"
CCP probably realizes that they cannot create ships out of thin air in their sandbox.
As been stated above plex->isk->ships =someone built it and someone mined for it.
Out of thin air for pure cold $: No immersion. Why should you mine? Why should you bother trying to get a bpc for something? All of the eve appeal falls with noone needing to sift the sand in the sandbox to produce things.
I myself think they should write a more detailed 'this is were we draw the line with MT' response.
Would I mind horribly if they said: We need some non vanity NeX items to be able to give newbies a boost because surveys shows they feel theycan never catch up and hence leave rather then stay;
No I would not.
Would I mind horribly if they said: Machariels, only 10k AUR! +10% armor implant as a bonus item.
Yes.
Would eve die if they said: Luxurary gallente shuttle, 1k AUR!
No.
On the high pricing of clothes etc:
You can resell your 60$ monocle on the open eve market to other players if you get bored of it. Recovering most likely alot of your initial investment, or even making more then original current plex<>aur<>isk worth.
How many MT stores lets you resell items to other players when you don't want them anymore?
Alot of hurt is in actuallity that not everyone can afford the vanity items. Someone define vanity.
And lastly: Had everyone and their mothers been able to buy a plex, convert to aur and get all the items currently in the shop just to try this new feature out; the PLEX market would have spiked and there was alot of market speculations on CQ and PLEX to rise. Now market tycoons that invested billions in that outcome are sad, their stock of plex wont rise to 450m each.
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Gaining isks in your first 30 days
I like the approach of skilling salvaging lvl4, taking a frigate and going into amamake, old man star, tama etc, look around lowsec. You'll find alot of t2 wrecks noone salvages. The isk worth to be salvaged can be quite lucrative, if your in fw territory its not to risky since fw people usualy cannot be bothered to go gcc and lose security status to kill a t1 frigate =)
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Lalalaland34501 Posts
I don't think telling a brand new newbie to go salvage in Amamake, OMS or Tama is very safe, but I agree with everything else. 
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On June 25 2011 18:37 Firebolt145 wrote:I don't think telling a brand new newbie to go salvage in Amamake, OMS or Tama is very safe, but I agree with everything else.
Shhhhhhhh
:D
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Total losses to general nubbery so far tonight? Around 5 million isk. Results from ninja salvage? About 15mil. Amount of worthless items sitting strewn throughout the rens area b/c I kept forgetting to sort by location instead of price? (and I'm too lazy to make more than one jump while fitting a ship) Somewhere in the ballpark of 6 million. STAY POSI BABY
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I can only imagain the inflation caused by micro transaction. There will be no way to maintain buying power of different goods.
Double digit inflation incoming.
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EPT
