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On June 04 2011 04:14 pahndah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 04:05 abominare wrote:On June 04 2011 03:47 pahndah wrote:On June 04 2011 03:29 abominare wrote:
Ewwww I had to look at a shield myrm, should post warning.
Also what exactly is the point of an SFI? I dont understand that fit or really the use of that ship at all. It fulfills the heavy tackler role alongside the proteus in AHAC gangs. Its also kind of like the training wheel ship for flying the cynabals and vagas, though the dps/tank is a little lacking. SFI is to Cynabal as a Taranis is to a Dramiel. an sfi flies completely different than a vaga and even more a cyna, an sfi cannot do what a vaga/cyna does because it has nearly a third of the range. I do kinda get the heavy tackle aspect. Didn't quite say the range was a shortfall specifically, but sure, that's a decent point and like I said, the dps/tank is lacking. It can't kite and kill things that are are bigger than it like the other two, but it'll still eat up frigates and anything smaller than similar to how the the vaga and cyna would do the same. I don't think its fair to call it flying completely different than the vaga and cyna...that seems a bit of a stretch to me.
V/C are falloff boats they kite and abuse their abnormal falloff. SFI's do not, nor do they have the means to handle frigs in tight orbit, however since most people are bad and would probly just mwd in a straight line they very much could pop those frigs in which case virtually every ship is an amazing anti frig vehicle.
and SFI can kite in the sense that they barely have more range than blasters. Which puts it up there with 75% of ships.
Vaga's can deal with the odd frig tackle because they have a neut and can send more material down range as the frig tries to approach that neut however is freaking important.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
Tbh I rarely get to use my neuts on my cane.
Edit: I'm actually scared to engage frigs in my cynabal. Sure I can neut them out, but with 425's and no tracking bonuses, how do I actually kill them beyond warrior 2's?
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On June 04 2011 04:22 abominare wrote:
Vaga's can deal with the odd frig tackle because they have a neut and can send more material down range as the frig tries to approach that neut however is freaking important.
Phantasms
+ Show Spoiler +Sansha should totally get a battlecruiser class ship, I would fly it forever
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United States44397 Posts
On June 04 2011 04:22 abominare wrote:
just mwd in a straight line they very much could pop those frigs in which case virtually every ship is an amazing anti frig vehicle.
Fucking drakes 
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On June 04 2011 04:26 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 04:22 abominare wrote:
just mwd in a straight line they very much could pop those frigs in which case virtually every ship is an amazing anti frig vehicle. Fucking drakes
Drakes are underpowered, They need a major buff.
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On June 04 2011 04:23 Firebolt145 wrote:
Tbh I rarely get to use my neuts on my cane.
Edit: I'm actually scared to engage frigs in my cynabal. Sure I can neut them out, but with 425's and no tracking bonuses, how do I actually kill them beyond warrior 2's?
I would say solo more you'll learn to really respect the subtle choices and power of neuts and nos on various ships and really understand why neuts are on canes and not missile launchers.
You kinda answered your cynabal question, if a frig has scram on you and you neut him, what happens? He runs out of cap, now what modules dont work with no cap? Scrams, now that the scram is off what can you now do that it was preventing?
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Hyrule19264 Posts
They should have 10% resistance per BC level, as well as 10% HML and HAM damage per BC level, and possibly a 25% shield amount bonus BC level, and 500% more drone bandwidth and drone bay capacity per BC level, and maybe another 50% HML and HAM damage role bonus.
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On June 04 2011 04:34 tofucake wrote:
They should have 10% resistance per BC level, as well as 10% HML and HAM damage per BC level, and possibly a 25% shield amount bonus BC level, and 500% more drone bandwidth and drone bay capacity per BC level, and maybe another 50% HML and HAM damage role bonus.
Yes but how would they deal with frigs? Needs 20% decrease in targets speed in consideration for missile damage per level
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On June 04 2011 04:33 abominare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 04:23 Firebolt145 wrote:
Tbh I rarely get to use my neuts on my cane.
Edit: I'm actually scared to engage frigs in my cynabal. Sure I can neut them out, but with 425's and no tracking bonuses, how do I actually kill them beyond warrior 2's? I would say solo more you'll learn to really respect the subtle choices and power of neuts and nos on various ships and really understand why neuts are on canes and not missile launchers. You kinda answered your cynabal question, if a frig has scram on you and you neut him, what happens? He runs out of cap, now what modules dont work with no cap? Scrams, now that the scram is off what can you now do that it was preventing?
I'm pretty sure I can run away. But I'm not sure if I can kill him. :< Is the distance you can gain while you're not scrammed enough to kill him?
Oh and I fully agree on why we have neuts on our canes/ships. I'm just saying, I haven't actually used it that often, even if it's amazing on paper.
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On June 04 2011 04:38 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 04:33 abominare wrote:On June 04 2011 04:23 Firebolt145 wrote:
Tbh I rarely get to use my neuts on my cane.
Edit: I'm actually scared to engage frigs in my cynabal. Sure I can neut them out, but with 425's and no tracking bonuses, how do I actually kill them beyond warrior 2's? I would say solo more you'll learn to really respect the subtle choices and power of neuts and nos on various ships and really understand why neuts are on canes and not missile launchers. You kinda answered your cynabal question, if a frig has scram on you and you neut him, what happens? He runs out of cap, now what modules dont work with no cap? Scrams, now that the scram is off what can you now do that it was preventing? I'm pretty sure I can run away. But I'm not sure if I can kill him. :<
The answer was turn your mwd back on and get distance. At a farther distance tracking him because less of an issue and potentially if hes desperate he may end up be moving straight at you while you burn allowing for your best potential chance of hitting him.
Or you can disengage, regardless he has no ability to put you back in the situation you were just in.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
Yeah I figured it out after posting and tried it out on Michael's rifter (killed him in process oops :D)
Works well, I wait for each neut cycle to spam my OH'd mwd. Would be interesting against more than one rifter though, would have to ECM one and neut the other.
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United States44397 Posts
On June 04 2011 04:38 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 04:33 abominare wrote:On June 04 2011 04:23 Firebolt145 wrote:
Tbh I rarely get to use my neuts on my cane.
Edit: I'm actually scared to engage frigs in my cynabal. Sure I can neut them out, but with 425's and no tracking bonuses, how do I actually kill them beyond warrior 2's? I would say solo more you'll learn to really respect the subtle choices and power of neuts and nos on various ships and really understand why neuts are on canes and not missile launchers. You kinda answered your cynabal question, if a frig has scram on you and you neut him, what happens? He runs out of cap, now what modules dont work with no cap? Scrams, now that the scram is off what can you now do that it was preventing? I'm pretty sure I can run away. But I'm not sure if I can kill him. :< Is the distance you can gain while you're not scrammed enough to kill him? Oh and I fully agree on why we have neuts on our canes/ships. I'm just saying, I haven't actually used it that often, even if it's amazing on paper.
Most of our peers don't run with tackle. They line up a load of BC and BS and fail to kill us. Autocanes rarely get to show their strengths in our fleets.
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On June 04 2011 04:22 abominare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 04:14 pahndah wrote:On June 04 2011 04:05 abominare wrote:On June 04 2011 03:47 pahndah wrote:On June 04 2011 03:29 abominare wrote:
Ewwww I had to look at a shield myrm, should post warning.
Also what exactly is the point of an SFI? I dont understand that fit or really the use of that ship at all. It fulfills the heavy tackler role alongside the proteus in AHAC gangs. Its also kind of like the training wheel ship for flying the cynabals and vagas, though the dps/tank is a little lacking. SFI is to Cynabal as a Taranis is to a Dramiel. an sfi flies completely different than a vaga and even more a cyna, an sfi cannot do what a vaga/cyna does because it has nearly a third of the range. I do kinda get the heavy tackle aspect. Didn't quite say the range was a shortfall specifically, but sure, that's a decent point and like I said, the dps/tank is lacking. It can't kite and kill things that are are bigger than it like the other two, but it'll still eat up frigates and anything smaller than similar to how the the vaga and cyna would do the same. I don't think its fair to call it flying completely different than the vaga and cyna...that seems a bit of a stretch to me. V/C are falloff boats they kite and abuse their abnormal falloff. SFI's do not, nor do they have the means to handle frigs in tight orbit, however since most people are bad and would probly just mwd in a straight line they very much could pop those frigs in which case virtually every ship is an amazing anti frig vehicle. and SFI can kite in the sense that they barely have more range than blasters. Which puts it up there with 75% of ships. Vaga's can deal with the odd frig tackle because they have a neut and can send more material down range as the frig tries to approach that neut however is freaking important.
I don't get it. The SFI has an innate 50% better tracking than both of those other boats, how can it NOT deal with a tight orbit frigate? I've always been under the assumption that SFI's with 220's or even 425's are up there with curse as anti-frigate eating machines. I don't know, I've been hit by SFI's before in my dram with the AB on while orbiting at 500. Maybe it was drones? But something in my mind tells me that's not the case.
As for kiting, I believe I already said that it was something the SFI can not do, since only time you would need to kite would be against against bigger things. Smaller things you can still just kill with the 50% better tracking or gtfo if you messed up...
I still think calling them not remotely similar is a stretch...
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if a frig orbits a sfi with ab on and on a decent orbit, you wont be hitting him with guns. i tried it with 2 te, 180s, and high tracking ammo even, no dice
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On June 04 2011 05:07 WiljushkA wrote:
if a frig orbits a sfi with ab on and on a decent orbit, you wont be hitting him with guns. i tried it with 2 te, 180s, and high tracking ammo even, no dice
This, standard sfi fits wont hit a frig with as low as 250 trans as far as 2k dist, which is easily done
Which means...
I don't get it. The SFI has an innate 50% better tracking than both of those other boats, how can it NOT deal with a tight orbit frigate? I've always been under the assumption that SFI's with 220's or even 425's are up there with curse as anti-frigate eating machines. I don't know, I've been hit by SFI's before in my dram with the AB on while orbiting at 500. Maybe it was drones? But something in my mind tells me that's not the case.
As for kiting, I believe I already said that it was something the SFI can not do, since only time you would need to kite would be against against bigger things. Smaller things you can still just kill with the 50% better tracking or gtfo if you messed up...
I still think calling them not remotely similar is a stretch...
Was a case of its a stabber hull a vaga is a stabber hull therefore they must be same they both go zoom zoom fast
So we've established that V/C compared to SFI have the following differences
Differences
One is a falloff kiter, the other cant
They are both tanked completely different
one is equipped to handle frig tackle
One is significantly faster than the other typically
one is capable of flying solo the other is typically an ahac fleet vessel
Similarities
they use same hull base
Sorry if its too much of a stretch to say they fly differently
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Okay you win Abom. Though I'm not sure what your last sentence means about zoom zoom fast? If only all EVE arguments were as civilized as this I could have more posts but alas T_T. Well played.
Edit: Oh you made an edit while I was posting this. But sure.
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On June 04 2011 05:16 pahndah wrote:
Okay you win Abom. Though I'm not sure what your last sentence means about zoom zoom fast? If only all EVE arguments were as civilized as this I could have more posts but alas T_T. Well played.
GG The important thing is I won
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You got you win, I got my post count up. I hope we can do this again in the future. Pleasure doing business with you.
Edit: Starts argument regarding the definition of "flying differently" Far as I'm concerned they both use the same propulsion modules in most cases. (Well, I don't think the cyna can fit a 100mn mwd if you're that crazy, well not sure on this). So in that case, they DO fly similarly, but the way you utilize them in their approach to combat situations differ. Zing. Okay class time. No more posting for now.
Edit 2: Fixing 1st Edit
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Russian Federation3632 Posts
if a frig orbits a sfi with ab on and on a decent orbit, you wont be hitting him with guns. i tried it with 2 te, 180s, and high tracking ammo even, no dice
Why are you shield tanking an SFI...?
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On June 04 2011 05:20 419 wrote:Show nested quote +if a frig orbits a sfi with ab on and on a decent orbit, you wont be hitting him with guns. i tried it with 2 te, 180s, and high tracking ammo even, no dice Why are you shield tanking an SFI...?
It has 4 mid slots and enough low slots to nano it out. While shield tanking is far from optimal, its still a relatively viable alternative.
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EPT
