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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
You also overdid it on the implants, but OK. That's about right. Losing EHP isn't such a tragedy when you are flying a ship that is intended never to get close to the enemy. It's not always terrifically practical because of this, but you can't have everything. It's a perfectly serviceable fit that I've used numerous times. | ||
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
On April 07 2011 16:06 Mumbleskates wrote: I find myself in a unique situation where I want to pyramid quote myself. People need to read before they post. Abominaire: alt+f4 is an actual module binding bro. Damn you game clients overwriting windows keyboard commands | ||
KwarK
United States42794 Posts
On April 07 2011 16:15 Mumbleskates wrote: The EM hole isn't that huge. Don't put two ambit extensions on, the last one is 4-stacked. Use a CDFE, or if you want, an anti-em rig. You can also go for a second LSE to conserve cap for the extended nanoing you may have to do, and maybe even use a polycarbon in the last rig slot. Personal preference. You also overdid it on the implants, but OK. That's about right. Losing EHP isn't such a tragedy when you are flying a ship that is intended never to get close to the enemy. It's not always terrifically practical because of this, but you can't have everything. It's a perfectly serviceable fit that I've used numerous times. What happens when you get shot at by a drake and die? It's got low EHP to the point of being worthless. If what you want is something to do ranged dps while never getting close I can't for the life of me understand why you'd start with a hurricane hull and decide that 24k is a safe distance. An autocane doesn't fill the niche you're trying to fill. | ||
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
From what I can tell you really really like Drakes. As it turns out, however, most pvp engagements involve ships that are NOT Drakes. Hard to believe, I know, but true even in this day and age. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34491 Posts
edit: basically the fit may be actually feasible for people with tons of SP but is certainly not one any of our corp pilots will be using for a long time.  | ||
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KwarK
United States42794 Posts
On April 07 2011 16:26 Mumbleskates wrote: No, an autocane doesn't fill the niche YOU are trying to fill. It works perfectly for what I had in mind. From what I can tell you really really like Drakes. As it turns out, however, most pvp engagements involve ships that are NOT Drakes. Hard to believe, I know, but true even in this day and age. What you had in mind was maximising dps while staying at a safe range. My point is that maximising your dps from 300 to 380 (with equal implants on each) while massively gimping your EHP is not a good trade when your safe distance is very much not safe. A cane has around 300 dps at 30k and that's alright, it's not awesome but it gets the job done and a cane is still an effective all rounder in the fleet. Sacrificing EHP and the ability to neut to get a little more dps out of it is simply a bad trade in any situation in which you aren't safe kiting at 24k. I brought up a drake purely because that's one of example of such a situation. A standard nanocane is a well rounded ship that is capable of looking after itself in a variety of situations. The fit you're suggesting is not. | ||
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
Someone said AC canes are useless at 30km, so I mentioned my own fit, which isn't. They were curious and asked how it was fit, so I obliged. Since then you've done nothing but antagonize me about how it's a stupid idea for the sorts of things you do and it would never work. I've killed battleships with it, easily and alone, on multiple occasions. Because of its specific traits that it is built for, it's able to do things that other ships are not, and because of certain tradeoffs, there are situations where it is not as good as certain other ships. This should not be surprising to anyone. I know what it's capable of doing, and what it isn't very good at. I'm not an idiot. Please stop. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34491 Posts
On April 07 2011 15:39 Sard Caid wrote: What you're seeing: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Inqou.jpg) What is actually happening: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9Byfh.jpg) Closest to what you're going for that I like: + Show Spoiler + [Hurricane, nano arty] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Invulnerability Field II 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x5 Warrior II x1 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NpLdJ.jpg) LOLOL SARD U CANT READ LOL WAT IS DIZ CANE FIT U STOOPID? m8 | ||
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KwarK
United States42794 Posts
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pahndah
1193 Posts
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
Dunno what makes you think I have a faction point on it. On April 07 2011 17:08 KwarK wrote: Quit being so defensive, it's just a discussion and only a game. This apparently doesn't stop you from treating me like a moron and assuming that every discussion is about you and how people should fit their ships to help you and whether their ships are better or worse for those things than the ones already used by you. The fact that it's unimportant should only make behaving with basic civility easier. | ||
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KwarK
United States42794 Posts
On April 07 2011 17:19 Mumbleskates wrote: Mostly Megathrons and I think an Apoc. And a HAM Drake. That kind of stuff. Dunno what makes you think I have a faction point on it. This apparently doesn't stop you from treating me like a moron and assuming that every discussion is about you and how people should fit their ships to help you and whether their ships are better or worse for those things than the ones already used by you. The fact that it's unimportant should only make behaving with basic civility easier. Calm down, nobody called you a moron. | ||
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
Man. Really. Read what people write. It's a forum, you have all day to read what you're replying to, and all day to respond to it. You should have enough time to squeeze some reading comprehension in there. I'm perfectly calm, mate, I'm just asking you to respond to the discussion at hand instead of turning all of them into your own discussion and dissing those involved. Back to watching Kaiji. He's totally gonna fall off a balance beam 26 stories in the air. Edit: nope, but he's apparently still fucked. | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
No, sard posted a fit that uses lower dps drones, Warrior is the default drone choice for a reason. Hobs are acceptable, but there are compelling reasons not to use them. (damage and falloff rigs are half as good as the corresponding lowslot module, so 2 and 2 with a burst aerator and an ambit extension) No. That is a completely false simplification, unless the stats have changed from an year ago (unsub crew represent). The EM hole isn't that huge. Don't put two ambit extensions on, the last one is 4-stacked. Use a CDFE, or if you want, an anti-em rig. You can also go for a second LSE to conserve cap for the extended nanoing you may have to do, and maybe even use a polycarbon in the last rig slot. Personal preference. You also overdid it on the implants, but OK. That's about right. 45% shield hit by dropping CDFEs is significant. Really, it is. Especially on a thin-skinned beast like the cane. No, an autocane doesn't fill the niche YOU are trying to fill. It works perfectly for what I had in mind. Why not just use a vaga...? I mean, you're not leveraging the extra highs or the extra tank anyways, and both will die to a Taranis... I'm not saying your fit is completely impractical. Its just suboptimal for solo / gang work. I've killed battleships with it, easily and alone, on multiple occasions. Any non-bad BC fit will also kill ratting battleships. Your point..? PS. In a vacuum, many ships will kill a HAMdrake -- I can come up with probably 10 BC variations off the top of my head that can do it. Its simply not a good criterion for judging the merit of a fit. | ||
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
On April 07 2011 17:48 419 wrote: Warrior is the default drone choice for a reason. Hobs are acceptable, but there are compelling reasons not to use them. No. That is a completely false simplification, unless the stats have changed from an year ago (unsub crew represent). 45% shield hit by dropping CDFEs is significant. Really, it is. Especially on a thin-skinned beast like the cane. Why not just use a vaga...? I mean, you're not leveraging the extra highs or the extra tank anyways, and both will die to a Taranis... I'm not saying your fit is completely impractical. Its just suboptimal for solo / gang work. Any non-bad BC fit will also kill ratting battleships. Your point..? PS. In a vacuum, many ships will kill a HAMdrake -- I can come up with probably 10 BC variations off the top of my head that can do it. Its simply not a good criterion for judging the merit of a fit. They weren't ratting fit, they were PVP fit, with trimarks and everything. You should still have a CDFE on the Cane. Go look it up. Damage rigs and falloff rigs have half the effect of damage mods and tracking enhancers' range increase respectively. You can apologize, it's OK. No, you won't die to a Taranis. You still have drones, excellent tracking on the guns, and missiles. I wouldn't choose to engage one in either this Hurricane or a Vagabond, but I wouldn't die to it. Hobs are perfectly fine for most applications. Use Warriors if you prefer; I tend to pick and choose with my fits. But using Hobs isn't as dumb as you'd like to make it sound. You also seem to have a very specific idea of what precise and controlled situations "solo/gang work" entails, even though each of those is a wildly varying field in and of itself. You should know this, yet you declare my fit to be suboptimal for everything. (I mean, really, is there another kind of PVP? You can't even say you think it's 'suboptimal for PVP,' you somehow have to qualify it even then.) I don't care if you don't prefer it, but at least try to be fair. Even I don't use this ship that often, but I believe it excels at its work when it's right for the job. And you can't just assume that the pilot is going to fly the ship in a completely brainless straightforward state-machine fashion. There are plenty of fights I would choose not to engage in with this ship. Using your "you will die to x" logic, I can shoot down any Drake fit you put forward as completely useless for any number of situations where you would die trying to fight x or y ship. | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
Go look it up. Damage rigs and falloff rigs have half the effect of damage mods and tracking enhancers' range increase respectively. You can apologize, it's OK. You disregard that stacking penalty makes it very unfavorable to stack rigs over the TE. In other words, 2 Ambits != 1 TE. By extension, 6 ambits != 3 TEs. So yes, your "2.5" comment is actually phrased quite misleadingly. No, you won't die to a Taranis. You still have drones, excellent tracking on the guns, and missiles. I wouldn't choose to engage one in either this Hurricane or a Vagabond, but I wouldn't die to it. I do hear that 425mms track very well against tight-orbit interceptors. I mean, really, is there another kind of PVP? You can't even say you think it's 'suboptimal for PVP,' you somehow have to qualify it even then. Well, alright. You have a ship with 2 utility slots and the powergrid to leverage it nicely. Instead you choose you use an unbonused weapons system... Its like fitting a fitting a LAR instead of EANM on the common blasterthron. Sure, its not strictly worse for 100% of the situations you will ever run into, but its a highly questionable choice nonetheless. That's not to say there aren't perfect fits. For example: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i47.tinypic.com/2im8hoy.jpg) | ||
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
On April 07 2011 18:16 419 wrote: In other words, 2 Ambits != 1 TE. By extension, 6 ambits != 3 TEs. So yes, your "2.5" comment is actually phrased quite poorly. Speaking of things that are wildly false and inaccurate, I'd like to see your six-rig drake. If you use only one rig, or one of each, it works exactly half as well as the equivalent lowslot module in the same situation. Why are you using stacking penalties to say that it doesn't give half the bonus? That's pedantic and deceptive; for practical purposes, it's a perfectly accurate rule, and if you read my posts, I already accounted for stacking penalties at every step in the process. I'm not going to change my explanation and fitting references just because you don't feel like admitting that you didn't read what I wrote the first time. And who was ever hurt by unbonused weapons systems? By that logic you should put all NOS and neuts on the high slots of a Myrmidon just because it doesn't give weapon bonuses. Please, I'm getting sick of arguing with you. I can see why people shy away from these forums now. | ||
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hagon
United Kingdom556 Posts
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
You generally dont consider implants when talking about stats..they apply to every fit and are just a bonus. The six rig drake is obviously a killmail bug, lol. This whole conversations reminds me of the guys dropping by like 100 pages ago and tell us what we should try to fly, lolol rapiers with tripple point and arazus with tripple web anyone? | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
On April 07 2011 17:19 Mumbleskates wrote: Mostly Megathrons and I think an Apoc. And a HAM Drake. That kind of stuff. Dunno what makes you think I have a faction point on it. This apparently doesn't stop you from treating me like a moron and assuming that every discussion is about you and how people should fit their ships to help you and whether their ships are better or worse for those things than the ones already used by you. The fact that it's unimportant should only make behaving with basic civility easier. I don't know. Far as I know, you need a faction point if you're planning to kill crap at 30km away. Either that or you have links somewhere in system? How do you even kill an apoc when you're literally sitting in his best range, especially if its pvp fit. Still haven't explained how myrm easily keeps range on a harbi that's faster than it. | ||
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