EPT
Also: more battlereports you slackers! An update on the political situation would be very much appreciated as well (me no play, just read ;9 ) <3
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
Also: more battlereports you slackers! An update on the political situation would be very much appreciated as well (me no play, just read ;9 ) <3 | ||
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
On April 07 2011 19:08 hagon wrote: Dude, chill the fuck out. Your kinda new round here, drop in and start sounding off like we're all morons and you are the only enlighten snowflake in New Eden. Your posts are unclear and argumentative - this isn't how shit works on TL brah, not C&P or CAOD mmkay? Well I'm sorry if I didn't have 300 posts before I appeared in your thread, but I'm not new to the game. And I'm sorry if I don't explain everything from the ground up in words of 8 letters or less. I gather that assuming you have a fundamental knowledge of ship fitting and game mechanics when I am posting here makes my explanations 'unclear.' Would it be simpler if I were to write a paragraph about each module? I'm not seeking to be argumentative. All I'm doing is explaining some useful ship fits and how they're used, at your own request, then being told how dumb and wrong I am because various of you did not read key parts of my posts. You say this is so different from C&P, but from what I'm seeing it's worse, given how assured people are that they know more than someone else about EVE fitting because they have more posts on this remote little forum. I can't wait to start telling how an actual standard Nanodrake fit has webs on it instead of invulns. Won't that be a journey. | ||
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Viceorvirtue
United States273 Posts
The reason neuts are popular (and perferred by some over hmls) is that when a tackler does get in range and under your guns, and trust me one day it will happen, you are able to neut him off then either burn away or warp before anyone manages to get a secondary scam on you. Hmls do have their place and are viable in a number of situations, but if you cant count on having the fleet size/setup to counteract a jag or something that gets a lucky warp in, you might not be able to get away in time. The other flaw I see is the lack of tank. When dealing with gateguns, stationguns, or just being primaried by an enemy gang, the amount of additional tank you get from extenders can actually make a difference between getting out in hull or in a pod. I believe that this is one of the reasons that arty canes are so popular for those wishing to apply higher dps at 24km+, it allows you to keep your shield buffer. For most fights it is normally considered the longer you can stay on the field, even if your not applying maximum dps, the better. In summary, your fit is weak against tackle (assuming they manage to get to you) and can be forced off the field more easily than a cane with 2 extenders and an em rig. Considering I have flown a hurricane repeatedly in fleets I feel that due to our current general gang sizes and the type of gangs we can usually expect to fight, you fit is suboptimal compared to a nanocane using extenders/em rig and neuts. This does not mean your fit is bad, simply that for what I would generally expect to end up fighting against, my desired fit is more flexable and able to handle a wider variety of situations. | ||
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
On April 07 2011 19:27 Monsen wrote: Seems like he's already in martyr mode anyway- in about 3 posts he'll drop the "I don't care if I get banned" bomb and will never be seen again So you give this treatment to newcomers on a regular basis? | ||
KwarK
United States44201 Posts
On April 07 2011 19:37 Mumbleskates wrote: I can't wait to start telling how an actual standard Nanodrake fit has webs on it instead of invulns. We already know thanks. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
On April 07 2011 19:41 Viceorvirtue wrote: When you say that you dont use the ship ofter are you talking about the hull itself or just the fit? As far as I can tell your fit is weak in the fallowing areas: dealing with tacklers at point blank and in dealing with gateguns, or enemy gangs that can shoot out to your range. The reason neuts are popular (and perferred by some over hmls) is that when a tackler does get in range and under your guns, and trust me one day it will happen, you are able to neut him off then either burn away or warp before anyone manages to get a secondary scam on you. Hmls do have their place and are viable in a number of situations, but if you cant count on having the fleet size/setup to counteract a jag or something that gets a lucky warp in, you might not be able to get away in time. The other flaw I see is the lack of tank. When dealing with gateguns, stationguns, or just being primaried by an enemy gang, the amount of additional tank you get from extenders can actually make a difference between getting out in hull or in a pod. I believe that this is one of the reasons that arty canes are so popular for those wishing to apply higher dps at 24km+, it allows you to keep your shield buffer. For most fights it is normally considered the longer you can stay on the field, even if your not applying maximum dps, the better. In summary, your fit is weak against tackle (assuming they manage to get to you) and can be forced off the field more easily than a cane with 2 extenders and an em rig. Considering I have flown a hurricane repeatedly in fleets I feel that due to our current general gang sizes and the type of gangs we can usually expect to fight, you fit is suboptimal compared to a nanocane using extenders/em rig and neuts. This does not mean your fit is bad, simply that for what I would generally expect to end up fighting against, my desired fit is more flexable and able to handle a wider variety of situations. I mean that specific fit, not the hull. I have four or five different hurricanes, and usually use a closerange shield-nano Hurricane or a typical Armorcane over artillery or this kind of fit. When I have had opportunities to bring it out, though, it has shone and excelled in beautiful ways. I know what neuts are for, I've been PVPing for years. With the lack of neuts it is admittedly a bit of a difficult ship to fly, and requires constant attention and some pretty fine-cut maneuvering to avoid getting in the wrong place. And I wouldn't use it under gateguns if I could help it. What you said about tank is true, but that's part of the way it's used. You're not diving in to within 10km with this fit, you're kiting out at 20-30km most of the time and applying damage from there, which often translates to a similar or better extension in lifespan on the field. And if you're talking about getting primaried by an enemy gang... well, I wouldn't want to be in that ship when there are more than 3 or 4 enemies in range and able to shoot me. If you 'get primaried' you were probably flying it wrong. Think of it like a giant, cheap Vagabond that's a little slow and does significantly more dps. And again, like you said, it's a perfectly serviceable fit, but not one I would use often for the kind of PVP I gather you guys generally engage in. It is indeed weak against tackle, another reason why it excels best in more controlled situations (wardecs, low-pop lowsec, and can aggro for example) or when you are flying it with razor sharp attention and ready to nanohard/warp at any time. PS. I appreciate that you didn't tell me what an idiot I am for talking about a fit that doesn't work for the kind of fighting 9pool does. Wish I could still expect that of most of the people here... | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
On April 07 2011 19:54 pahndah wrote: Stop dodging my question about how your dual plate myrm keeps range on a harbi that's faster than it. It's hard to dodge a question you answered before it was asked: On April 06 2011 20:00 Mumbleskates wrote: ...a good Myrm fit has point/web/scram and 2 plates with small autocannons... Nearly half of what I've posted so far has been repeating things that I already wrote to people who didn't read it the first time... | ||
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Johnny Business
Sweden1251 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
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pahndah
1193 Posts
On April 07 2011 20:07 Mumbleskates wrote: It's hard to dodge a question you answered before it was asked: Nearly half of what I've posted so far has been repeating things that I already wrote to people who didn't read it the first time... On April 06 2011 20:00 Mumbleskates wrote:a good Myrm fit has point/web/scram and 2 plates with small autocannons, keeping the harbinger in range with ease So...what tricks do you employ that lets you get in range of a harbinger that is moving faster than your myrm fit to begin with? Not sure how much clearer I can get. Edit: On April 07 2011 20:14 Firebolt145 wrote: Sometimes I feel like this thread and the rest of TL are completely separate forums... Pretty much, I like arguing when I believe I have good evidence to back up my claims =) | ||
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
On April 07 2011 20:14 pahndah wrote: So...what tricks do you employ that lets you get in range of a harbinger that is moving faster than your myrm fit to begin with? Not sure how much clearer I can get. No need to be nasty. We're just discussing fits and tactics here bro, please. No tricks. Either land close to them, or just let them come close when they see you have a long point or they just do it on their own. Get them in web range and overheat the mwd. Whatever. Harbingers like to get in close and use their short-range ammo, which is right in line with your scram range anyway. I shouldn't need to tell you guys how to get into scram range, you're supposed to be the ones that never PVP without Loki links. If you can't deal with a regular old Harbinger on your own, which is honestly a fair amount of the time, what did you even join a corporation for? It's called Backup. Call for it. | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
On April 07 2011 19:42 Mumbleskates wrote: So you give this treatment to newcomers on a regular basis? Considering this is the largest SC site there is, which has been growning at a mindboggling speed I'd say "nah, not really". However, "I can see why people shy away from these forums" is just a childish way of martyring yourself against the "evil forum". I have often seen that attitude lead to posts along the lines of (Eve terms) "I didn't want this forum anyway"- and suchs posts are always followed by a trip to disneyland (TL terms, hah). | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
On April 07 2011 20:23 Mumbleskates wrote: No need to be nasty. We're just discussing fits and tactics here bro, please. No tricks. Either land close to them, or just let them come close when they see you have a long point or they just do it on their own. Get them in web range and overheat the mwd. Whatever. Harbingers like to get in close and use their short-range ammo, which is right in line with your scram range anyway. I shouldn't need to tell you guys how to get into scram range, you're supposed to be the ones that never PVP without Loki links. If you can't deal with a regular old Harbinger on your own, which is honestly a fair amount of the time, what did you even join a corporation for? It's called Backup. Call for it. No need to be condescending. I wasn't even trying to insult you, so try not to twist things around. Harbs are fine with using a disruptor and abusing scorch, in which case myrm never gets to dictate range. Than again I haven't seen a harbinger in a long time, where do you find these things? | ||
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hagon
United Kingdom556 Posts
This is TeamLiquid, a StarCraft Community website, the most popular in the world. This thread exists because some TL members play Eve as well. It serves a dual purpose: a place where TL members who play Eve can chat about Eve with each other, and a marker for TL's corp in game, The Hatchery. Many of the people here here are not in The Hatchery, they have other commitments/interests in Eve. Some of them, by any definition, are pretty damn good at the game. It does not appear that you are not a member of TL's community: you joined a month ago and every post you have made is in this thread, no introduction of yourself, no comment on why your here - no reason we should know who the hell you are. furet00, like you, is a recently joined poster. Like you his only posts are in this thread. Are we begining to see where this is going wrong? TeamLiquid has a policy of polite discussion, not comforming to this will earn you a cold shoulder, and eventually a permanent exit. Obviously, this being the internet, you're unlikely to back down on your behavour, so I can only wish you the best of luck. Also, just FYI, I don't think (not having checked every post) that any of the members you are discussing/arguing/raging/having hot eve sex with are members of the Hatch. | ||
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Body_Shield
Canada3368 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://unrforliberty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Our-Discussion.jpg) Mumble, I think you should have been firmer in stating that the cane fit you were talking about is quite a bit more specific than "normal." Probably would have saved quite a bit of time. Also the Myrm and Harb simulation in your head is slightly dependent on pilot skill and choice. I don't think I'd ever want to load Conflag in a Harb no matter what the fit, sure it's high dps but then you could just be stuck in close range and die. Even if every sign pointed to me having the advantage I still wouldn't feel comfortable. Doesn't mean that people don't do that of course. But every battle you don't die in is a victory in my book, even if you don't kill anything. | ||
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iaretehnoob
Sweden741 Posts
On April 07 2011 20:32 pahndah wrote: Than again I haven't seen a harbinger in a long time, where do you find these things? I fly them  | ||
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
At this point I am spending most of my posts defending my argument, explaining myself, and asking people to be more thorough when they read my posts so that I don't have to perpetually repeat the same things. This in turn earns me a 'Cold Shoulder,' which dooms me to further bad treatment and trolling from other frequenters of the thread. Any attempt at maintaining a consistent argument at this point, keeping up my original points, causes the situation to spiral forever out of control, ending in a ban. This pattern happens often enough that you can see it coming days away? That's not a very welcoming sort of community. | ||
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Mumbleskates
82 Posts
On April 07 2011 20:41 Body_Shield wrote: This is the best time I've had in this thread yet. + Show Spoiler + Mumble, I think you should have been firmer in stating that the cane fit you were talking about is quite a bit more specific than "normal." Probably would have saved quite a bit of time. Also the Myrm and Harb simulation in your head is slightly dependent on pilot skill and choice. I don't think I'd ever want to load Conflag in a Harb no matter what the fit, sure it's high dps but then you could just be stuck in close range and die. Even if every sign pointed to me having the advantage I still wouldn't feel comfortable. Doesn't mean that people don't do that of course. But every battle you don't die in is a victory in my book, even if you don't kill anything. Yeah, that's a pretty common approach for someone who has the nano-mentality. The Harbinger is a pretty terrible nano-ship, though; I've flown all different flavors of ships, from Abaddons to Dramiels, and there's really nothing wrong with getting up in someone's face with short-range ammo in a slow, tanky ship and making their day go sour. That's why the Harb has such a great armor buffer. The standard armor Harbinger has a web for a reason: you get in close, tackle them, and hurt them. And, I never claimed that the Hurricane fit was "normal". Not sure what gave you that impression, and nothing anyone said gave me an indication that that's what they thought it was. Even with the basic premise: everyone should know there aren't many Cane fits that give 500 dps past 20km, especially with autocannons; that's what it's meant to do, and it's naturally a bit unusual because of it. | ||
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