• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:40
CET 13:40
KST 21:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners10Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!44$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker? [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Learning my new SC2 hotkey…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1090 users

EVE Corporation - Page 193

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 191 192 193 194 195 2021 Next
https://discord.gg/c8jHgQpMSY

mity hat tree discord if you care
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
November 27 2010 21:10 GMT
#3841
On November 27 2010 17:58 VorcePA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2010 12:04 KwarK wrote:
On November 27 2010 07:43 Shockk wrote:
On November 27 2010 06:55 TurpinOS wrote:
Bweeee.. gonna edit all of this, this sale could have created a lot of issues with how the corp works but since it was only a 1 day sale we might be lucky and not have to deal with too many people coming in saying ''Sup i never played eve but I bought my account already for 5$''

The worst that could happen is that, yeah, some TL corp member fails to get his free 30 days because a new player already upgraded his account, and a new guy actually gets to explore the game instead of being dragged along by someone else. But I didn't post the link in this thread only so that a lot of old players could get free play time; I posted it for everyone interested in a cheap EVE account, be it new people or veteran players.

Oh, and the approach of giving new players ISK, advice and a 21 day trial for 30 days of play time for the seasoned player isn't guaranteed to yield results either. There are so many people fed up with the game after only a month or two because they got spoonfed everything, didn't have to earn anything and never bothered to explore and experience it from scratch.

Except people don't explore the game. That'd take initiative, a quality the vast majority of players are extremely lacking in. Instead they sit there waiting for the game to feed them something linear to follow and in EVE it just runs out. Then they decide the single player sucks (which it does) and quit.

By all means if they want to learn the game by themselves and then join the corp then feel free. Nothing would make me happier than getting new members who don't take any work. But if they show up with no clue (and 90% of all players of all ages have no clue) then I need the mentor program to pawn them off. Otherwise it simply gets too overwhelming because the work all falls on me.


Well KwarK I don't know if you remember asking me questions when you were just a young pod pilot, but pretty much everybody goes through it. Just from reading this thread you appear to have been successful since I left the game, so hats off to you.

FWIW, I'm trying to reactivate my account to join the TL corp., but it appears my account has been banned while I had it de-activated. It was probably hacked and then used to sell ISK or some shit, but hey, at least you'll have one person who doesn't need any help soon. :D


HAHAHAHA

Kwark's knowledge doesn't extend very far beyond Drakes, Buffer Shield tanks, and a decent knowledge of nanogang operation.

Ask him about anything else and you'll get a dumb look. Oh he can mission alright too
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
WiljushkA
Profile Joined March 2006
Serbia1416 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-27 21:37:05
November 27 2010 21:34 GMT
#3842
well tbh drakes are all you need to be successful in eve right now

im just laughing right now at all those "vets" who tried to convince me a year ago that drakes were useless.
"As much as I love the image of me F5-ing paypal every 15 minutes while fist pumping and screaming "SHIP THE MONEY BITCHES"" - Day9
TurpinOS
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada1223 Posts
November 27 2010 21:42 GMT
#3843
On November 28 2010 06:10 Jayme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2010 17:58 VorcePA wrote:
On November 27 2010 12:04 KwarK wrote:
On November 27 2010 07:43 Shockk wrote:
On November 27 2010 06:55 TurpinOS wrote:
Bweeee.. gonna edit all of this, this sale could have created a lot of issues with how the corp works but since it was only a 1 day sale we might be lucky and not have to deal with too many people coming in saying ''Sup i never played eve but I bought my account already for 5$''

The worst that could happen is that, yeah, some TL corp member fails to get his free 30 days because a new player already upgraded his account, and a new guy actually gets to explore the game instead of being dragged along by someone else. But I didn't post the link in this thread only so that a lot of old players could get free play time; I posted it for everyone interested in a cheap EVE account, be it new people or veteran players.

Oh, and the approach of giving new players ISK, advice and a 21 day trial for 30 days of play time for the seasoned player isn't guaranteed to yield results either. There are so many people fed up with the game after only a month or two because they got spoonfed everything, didn't have to earn anything and never bothered to explore and experience it from scratch.

Except people don't explore the game. That'd take initiative, a quality the vast majority of players are extremely lacking in. Instead they sit there waiting for the game to feed them something linear to follow and in EVE it just runs out. Then they decide the single player sucks (which it does) and quit.

By all means if they want to learn the game by themselves and then join the corp then feel free. Nothing would make me happier than getting new members who don't take any work. But if they show up with no clue (and 90% of all players of all ages have no clue) then I need the mentor program to pawn them off. Otherwise it simply gets too overwhelming because the work all falls on me.


Well KwarK I don't know if you remember asking me questions when you were just a young pod pilot, but pretty much everybody goes through it. Just from reading this thread you appear to have been successful since I left the game, so hats off to you.

FWIW, I'm trying to reactivate my account to join the TL corp., but it appears my account has been banned while I had it de-activated. It was probably hacked and then used to sell ISK or some shit, but hey, at least you'll have one person who doesn't need any help soon. :D

Oh he can mission alright too


And even there...


(INB4 the kick)
http://eve.znaor.hr/pimpmydomi/
pahndah
Profile Joined August 2009
1193 Posts
November 27 2010 23:00 GMT
#3844
On November 28 2010 06:34 WiljushkA wrote:
well tbh drakes are all you need to be successful in eve right now

im just laughing right now at all those "vets" who tried to convince me a year ago that drakes were useless.


I'm sorry Vil, but a gang of tengu will do more dps and have a (slightly) larger tank. Needs more pure dram/taranis gangs imo.

On a side note: The rocket buff might make me train up Caldari Frigate V, which will get me both the crow and the harpy (is this good? can't eft warrior atm T_T).
s_side
Profile Joined May 2009
United States700 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-27 23:42:57
November 27 2010 23:41 GMT
#3845
The harpy is shit. Train up guardians/zealots/amarr bs/minny bs ffs.
Malderon
Profile Joined September 2009
Netherlands136 Posts
November 27 2010 23:52 GMT
#3846
Regarding the removal of learning skills, people with very high attributes will train slightly slower when the change hits, because of the 10% from the Learning skill.

For example, take my Int/Mem:
Now I have: (11 base + 10 learning +4 implant) *1.1 = 27.5
I will get: 11+12+4=27

Of course, this gets compensated by the fact that skills related to other attributes will now train faster.

And I am slightly pissed, because after many boring weeks of training (advanced) learning skills to V, I could train my skills faster than most people, especially those who lacked the patience and long term thinking to train the learning skills. Now that advantage is gone. Ah well, it does make EVE a better game overall I suppose.
pahndah
Profile Joined August 2009
1193 Posts
November 27 2010 23:57 GMT
#3847
Apparently it was the hawk that's getting the 5%-->10% kinetic damage boost. I already have those skills trained up to IV, its the pewpew skills I'm lacking (though I don't think we'll ever run those fleets anytime soon)
Dyllyn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Singapore670 Posts
November 27 2010 23:59 GMT
#3848
guys when exactly is the learning skills removal patch hitting, is it 14th december? I want to make my trial account after it hits
scv rush ftw
Icx
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Belgium853 Posts
November 28 2010 00:02 GMT
#3849
@malderon

Ye, but (and this could be wrong, got it from someone else), if after the 14th basicly count the "usefull" skillpoints you have, because of the shift of those SP's from learnings to whatever you choose it will basicly take 8 years before you start to fall behind because of the slight decrease in learning speed.

And I do get that your point, but ye the game is better off without them imo, said very basicly they were basicly this "train these skills that don't give you any benefit at all for a month atleast or you just end up gimping yourself" (going into all the positives and negatives is a bit to long atm since it's late :p )


@ GenericTerranPlayer

The change is supposed to happen on the 14th of december, but keep this in mind:

"BE AWARE: THE CHANGES OUTLINED IN THIS BLOG MAY SLIP TO EARLY NEXT YEAR IF THEY DON'T MEET THE NECESSARY SOFTWARE AND QA MILESTONES, IN THE SPIRIT OF DOING THINGS PROPERLY RATHER THAN QUICKLY."

(quote from the dev blog)
pahndah
Profile Joined August 2009
1193 Posts
November 28 2010 00:03 GMT
#3850
On November 28 2010 08:52 Malderon wrote:
Regarding the removal of learning skills, people with very high attributes will train slightly slower when the change hits, because of the 10% from the Learning skill.

For example, take my Int/Mem:
Now I have: (11 base + 10 learning +4 implant) *1.1 = 27.5
I will get: 11+12+4=27

Of course, this gets compensated by the fact that skills related to other attributes will now train faster.

And I am slightly pissed, because after many boring weeks of training (advanced) learning skills to V, I could train my skills faster than most people, especially those who lacked the patience and long term thinking to train the learning skills. Now that advantage is gone. Ah well, it does make EVE a better game overall I suppose.


Technically you still do/did train your skills faster than said people, since you will be getting full refund of those points (and if you put them into a skill that's not your primary remap attributes you'll be even more ahead) at the end. What you should have said is "I'm mad because certain people got to use certain skills for 15 days (i think?) before I got to use them." Or "down the road 1 year from now" I could be gaining an additional 0.5 extra points worth of skill points per hour than some one else.
pahndah
Profile Joined August 2009
1193 Posts
November 28 2010 00:12 GMT
#3851
On November 28 2010 08:59 GenericTerranPlayer wrote:
guys when exactly is the learning skills removal patch hitting, is it 14th december? I want to make my trial account after it hits


Why not just make a trial account to see if you like the game. If you do, just get a 21 day account and train to V all the learning skills so you can easily remap them to whatever you want. Hell, just go int/mem when you start and V all the int/mem skills and when the patch comes, take all those points and put them into the spaceship/gunnery/missile skills.

Either way, starting now will get you ahead SP wise.
Niji87
Profile Joined September 2008
United States112 Posts
November 28 2010 00:16 GMT
#3852
On November 27 2010 23:56 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2010 19:50 Niji87 wrote:
ANYWAY, HOW IS THE WAR GOING?!

They are still hemorrhaging members and are down to 3-4 online at a time max from a prewar peak of 20ish. They are no longer forming fleets and are generally acting in a defeated manner, simply running and docking when they see us. As far as I can tell their carebearing activities have completely stopped/gone to alts and it is the most active carebears who have deserted them. They are now living on passive income, plexs or savings and their actual playing of the game has pretty much stopped.


Hahahaha, Jesus. You guys reamed them.
I am not very good at playing StarCraft.
TurpinOS
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada1223 Posts
November 28 2010 00:16 GMT
#3853
Looks like RFAP is currently being camped by 8 WTs, baddon x2, cane x2, geddon x2, pest x2. Terrible armor fleet as always, this time without logi, sucks we dont have anyone on. They also have a neutral claw for a warp-in so be careful.
http://eve.znaor.hr/pimpmydomi/
Shockk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany2269 Posts
November 28 2010 00:20 GMT
#3854
On November 28 2010 08:52 Malderon wrote:
And I am slightly pissed, because after many boring weeks of training (advanced) learning skills to V, I could train my skills faster than most people, especially those who lacked the patience and long term thinking to train the learning skills. Now that advantage is gone. Ah well, it does make EVE a better game overall I suppose.


It does. Considering that training advanced Learning skills to V only pays off after ... a year? or so (compared to 4/4 or even 4/3), those who "lacked the patience and long term thinking" actually did the right thing: They just played the game, instead of waiting for a result they'd not benefit from for another 10-12 months.

Sure, most MMOs have a history of overhauling their mechanics over time (and thus disgruntling veteran players), but EVE's learning skills were a horrible idea in the first place. It's good they'll be gone.
Dyllyn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Singapore670 Posts
November 28 2010 00:20 GMT
#3855
On November 28 2010 09:12 pahndah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2010 08:59 GenericTerranPlayer wrote:
guys when exactly is the learning skills removal patch hitting, is it 14th december? I want to make my trial account after it hits


Why not just make a trial account to see if you like the game. If you do, just get a 21 day account and train to V all the learning skills so you can easily remap them to whatever you want. Hell, just go int/mem when you start and V all the int/mem skills and when the patch comes, take all those points and put them into the spaceship/gunnery/missile skills.

Either way, starting now will get you ahead SP wise.


oh yeah goodpoint. when will the new face maker be active though
scv rush ftw
Icx
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Belgium853 Posts
November 28 2010 00:23 GMT
#3856
"Release key features of this expansion such as the Incarna Character Creator and Sansha Incursions in January 2011"

And everyone will be able to recreate his character in terms of looks/, so don't worry about making a character now (afaik, i'm not really interested in the incarna stuff, so I could be wrong, but it seems silly only doing that for new characters, that wouldn't make sense at all)
Malderon
Profile Joined September 2009
Netherlands136 Posts
November 28 2010 01:00 GMT
#3857
On November 28 2010 09:20 Shockk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2010 08:52 Malderon wrote:
And I am slightly pissed, because after many boring weeks of training (advanced) learning skills to V, I could train my skills faster than most people, especially those who lacked the patience and long term thinking to train the learning skills. Now that advantage is gone. Ah well, it does make EVE a better game overall I suppose.


It does. Considering that training advanced Learning skills to V only pays off after ... a year? or so (compared to 4/4 or even 4/3), those who "lacked the patience and long term thinking" actually did the right thing: They just played the game, instead of waiting for a result they'd not benefit from for another 10-12 months.

Sure, most MMOs have a history of overhauling their mechanics over time (and thus disgruntling veteran players), but EVE's learning skills were a horrible idea in the first place. It's good they'll be gone.


You make a fair point there, in that just playing the game more and focussing less on such long term benefits would probably have made me a happier player back then .

And thinking about the optimal learning skill path was good fun, the fact such things actually require thought is a great part of EVE. Thinking actually pays off very much.

Perhaps I'll pick up the game again and join you fine folks for some PvP action, in which I'm still a beginner, having only been tackler once. It was good fun though, in my rupture filled with (resist) plates,a damage control. Mwd and scramblers. Since it was at a jumpgate, speed wasn't needed as much as just having the armor/structure to survive long enough to get remote repped. Good times.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
November 28 2010 01:13 GMT
#3858
On November 28 2010 09:20 Shockk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2010 08:52 Malderon wrote:
And I am slightly pissed, because after many boring weeks of training (advanced) learning skills to V, I could train my skills faster than most people, especially those who lacked the patience and long term thinking to train the learning skills. Now that advantage is gone. Ah well, it does make EVE a better game overall I suppose.


It does. Considering that training advanced Learning skills to V only pays off after ... a year? or so (compared to 4/4 or even 4/3), those who "lacked the patience and long term thinking" actually did the right thing: They just played the game, instead of waiting for a result they'd not benefit from for another 10-12 months.

Sure, most MMOs have a history of overhauling their mechanics over time (and thus disgruntling veteran players), but EVE's learning skills were a horrible idea in the first place. It's good they'll be gone.

Training advanced learning to five takes three and a half years to make up. Basically if you made your character anytime after 06 getting adv learning to 5 was a stupid idea
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
pahndah
Profile Joined August 2009
1193 Posts
November 28 2010 02:04 GMT
#3859
Well when the patch hits, having those free skill points being applicable to wherever you want, in addition to the time you got to utilize the extra skill attribute point will make it a good idea. Thanks ccp for making bad idea choices into good ones.

Also Goonswarm lost a Titan apparently. BUT WTF GORDON WRU ON IT.
Ludrik
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Australia523 Posts
November 28 2010 03:45 GMT
#3860
I've only been training learning skills since the announcement of their removal. You will be able to distribute the skill points from learning into any other skill. Effectively their removal increases the time to learn skills for which you've got crap attributes. ie. trade skills, leadership skills, etc.
Only a fool would die laughing. I was a fool.
Prev 1 191 192 193 194 195 2021 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group Stage 1 - Group A
WardiTV570
Rex82
LiquipediaDiscussion
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #112
Krystianer vs SKillousLIVE!
CranKy Ducklings164
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 145
Rex 82
MindelVK 33
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 7308
Sea 5350
GuemChi 941
actioN 635
Pusan 534
Barracks 370
Hyun 274
Last 210
hero 194
Soma 178
[ Show more ]
Mini 134
Larva 129
PianO 105
Backho 71
ToSsGirL 55
Sharp 46
NaDa 26
Noble 15
scan(afreeca) 9
HiyA 8
Dota 2
Gorgc9045
singsing2211
Pyrionflax268
XcaliburYe182
League of Legends
JimRising 717
Counter-Strike
zeus672
x6flipin547
edward51
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor220
Other Games
B2W.Neo1045
Happy264
XaKoH 96
goatrope38
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3130
• WagamamaTV470
League of Legends
• Jankos2917
Upcoming Events
LAN Event
2h 21m
ByuN vs Zoun
TBD vs TriGGeR
Clem vs TBD
IPSL
5h 21m
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
7h 21m
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
OSC
10h 21m
OSC
20h 21m
Wardi Open
23h 21m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
[ Show More ]
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
BSL 21
6 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.